PS3 OS still undecided: Linux? OS X?
By Barb Dybwad 
posted Aug 4th 2005 10:10PM
posted Aug 4th 2005 10:10PM
So way back in June, Kutaragi was spouting some
hyperbole about the Cell being the one processor to rule them all, with the ability to power a
PS3 console running
potentially multiple operating systems. He name-dropped Linux and Mac OS X as possibilities for the default operating
system in the PS3. A recent article on the Sony website confirms that they're still looking into the possibility of the
PS3 running Linux or Tiger — or at least that they've got some really wishful thinking going on that Stevie J is gonna
license OS X for use in the box. So what do you think — pure PR hype? Public plea? Or some sort of tease on an actual,
potential partnership?
[Thanks, brad]
I want one.... Mmmmm Remote PSP Challengers has a good sound to it.
PS3 with OSX... it would make me buy it quicker...as Id like to see how a Mac and the PS3 on OSX would connect...plus i have aPSP and they are going to connect to eeach other....I love conectivity!
Well.. OSX is possible, looking at the recent partnership between Apple and Sony (in the area of video anyway). But that would have to be modified version, 'cause why would you want the full version of OSX on your console?
Hmmm, a stripped down OS X for the PS3? Could work. It's a Linux kernel and that's stable; and OSX has really good multimedia capabilities.
not the Leopard, I guess, though it is scheduled for release next year, just the same as ps3 console.so can I say just the Tiger?
and, if we can say that, ps3 games will be also on Mac? well,XBox360 runs a windows mediacenter, if ps3 runs a Mac OS, that would be damn cool.
OH MAN!
I'd be all over that system if it had OS X on there.
"The integrated Cell processor will be able to support a variety of operating systems (such as Linux or Apple's Tiger)"
This is the quote from SONY's UK web site.
The question should be, does Apple's Tiger want to run on the Cell?
to #2.But that would have to be modified version...
even if it would be a modified version(just like windows 2000 on Xbox), still, you could hack it into a system with extra features(like installing Linux on XBox, or just installed EVox software),someone like that. :)
Total Bullocks. The Cell processor is a completely different animal from the PowerPC making a port non-trivial.
Linux is already running on cell processors. There has also been several comments that the PS3 hard drive will have Linux pre-installed. Sony has demonstrated a commitment to Linux in the past, recall the PS2 Linux kit. (http://playstation2-linux.com/)
Sony has made more than minor rumblings that the PS3 is a full-blown computer (more than a console). It may well be a throwback to the days of Atari and Commodore - a game machine that's also a computer.
#3: OSX is a Unix Kernel, not Linux, I believe.
if sony releases ps3 with their flavored-unix-clone, that should probably positively affect game development for linux. I hope that their scheme won't be using some windows emulator on top of a unix-clone.
According to G4TV, the plan is to use the same OS as the PSP only in a much bigger design to ensure compatibility.
Now we are told this....
So, which is it?
All the hype and speculation is what makes this console cycle so aggravating.
Just get the crap released and let us use it. Screw the PR hype.
I thought they were using the same design as the PSP?
This would be interesting High-Low marketing for OS X.
High end running on Intel Chip (desktop and laptop)
Low end running on Cell Chip (PS3)
If they can do this, it would be like millions of extra OS X machines out there, with out Apple doing didly squat.
They can ride on someone else's coat-tail for once.
Since PS3 and PowerMac don't compete in same market, it wouldn't kill Apple to market this as low cost version of Mac.
If I were Apple I'd make OS X available for all consoles.
You can't trust G4. All they do is scan Slashdot, Engadget, and Gamespy and regurgitate it. This subject is already being covered more in depth on Engadget's sister blog covering everything Apple at www.tuaw.com
Its obvious Sony is begging for a partnership, and I think providing OS X Lite to the PS3 would be a very wise decision on Apple's part, even if they only net a $10 license (the same as for PalmOS and PocketPC) per console sold. Plus, not to mention making the iTunes Music Store the front end experience on the PS3 for music.
Re: I.P. Freely
i must say.... thats an excellent idea.
There is no chance of OSX being on the PS3, assuming they want to actually sell them. The licensing fee would add another $100 to the already too-high cost of the hardware. Linux it is!
Also, with all the power the PS3 is projected to have for less than or possibly even the same price as a Mac Mini, do you thing that Apple would want in on that?
Apple thinks it's a hardware company, They're switching to x86, but not licensing the OS. We all know the positives and negatives of that decision. I don't even care for OSX, but it seems like bad business to me. They get to keep selling the over-priced hardware, at the expense of potentially selling 10-times as many copies of the over-priced software.
I just don't see it ending up in the PS3.
to i.p.freely
if you can persuade Microsoft to buy a Mac OS for XBox3
Re: I.P. Freely
i must say.... thats an excellent idea.
It really doesn't make sense... a desktop operating system for something that's going to play games on your TV? These things are appliances, and as appliances. . . they need to be as noncomplex as possible.
Here's my theory: someone is smoking to much crack over at Sony.
I'd love another counsel that can run homebrew stuff (we buy these expensive things... and do what... run MAME?). . . along with some other cool apps like XBMC, but I don't see this kind of ability having much of an appeal to the mass market.
That being said... when can I buy one?
It actually makes more sense to use linux because it doesn't require any partnership with Apple or buying the stripped OSX from them. Sony can just adjust a linux distro for their own needs, and that's flexible and free. Makes more sense now.
-------------------------------
Your comments: #3
Mac OS X is not a Linux kernel. It is based on the Mach kernel. OS X
is an offshoot of BSD UNIX (via Darwin). Both Linux and Mach kernels
are UNIX like. However, unlike BSD, Linux has never actually been
certified as true UNIX. I've read that one of the more recent goals of the
Linux kernel team is to get this certification (This certification
comes from the Open Group).
As much as I love OS X, I'm not sure that I want to see it in a
console. For one it has been proven to have some issues in the realm of
OpenGL and game graphics (see the Doom 3 stats for OSX).
Also, it could challenge the one thing I've always liked about
consoles over more general purpose computers, simplicity. You put a disc in,
you play a game. Nothing else to it. I don't think it would be worth
the license cost to use OS X. Sony would probably end up having to pay
Apple to cut out a lot of the stuff that makes OS X great on a general
purpose computer, that isn't appropriate for a console. On the other
hand nobody needs to be payed for Linux, and stripped down / embedded
versions already exist.
If they simply used Darwin, they wouldn't need Steve's okay at all. It's open source and therefore free as in beer. They would have to resubmit changes to the tree, but no reason they can't use it.
If Apple does license OS X in some form (with a 10 foot GUI) for the PS3, it will simply be a matter of razors (PS3) and razor blades (iTMS movies and content). The PS3 would make a perfect media hub/DVR (think Elgato EyeTV) all rolled into one for integration with the rumored deals Steve is putting together with the movie , music and TV studios for video content.
Imagine Dashboard Widgets and PIP DVR capabilities on your 50" HDTV? I'm one of the conspiracy theorists that believes there was more than a casual reason for Ken Kutaragi to get up on stage at the WWDC to pimp Sony HD camcorders.
There could be a serious synergy in the works between Apple and Sony. I wouldn't be surprised if Sir Howard decides to ditch Sony's Connect and take the offer Steve made to Idei on that golfing trip. I never heard a report that Sony actually declined.
War against M$ could make for strange bedfellows....
Putting Tiger on it is a good way to get me to buy it.
iPhoto on a TV would be pretty awesome. Actually spinning the PS3 as a Sony gaming machine and an Apple Media Mac would be pretty awesome.
i.p.freely - "They can ride on someone else's coat-tail for once."
--
What do you mean for once? Isn't basing their operating system off of FreeBSD riding on someone else's coat-tails? Not to mention copying the entire concept of a GUI from the Parc team all those years ago...
bs no question
To Mike Cerm:
I don't think Apple would charge $100 for license fee. We are talking about millions of PS3s. With volume comes discount.
Mac Mini is not intended for PS3 market. There are other models of PC that are cheaper than Mac Mini, yet Mac Mini's are selling. People who want computer will not buy Console so they can use it as computer. And people who want PS3 will not be looking for computers to play games on.
As for your last point, this isn't really the right forum to argue about.
To GradualDecay;
Sony is not a software company, they don't offer any remotely useful software. Apple has some of the best consumer music and video software. Why would you try to compete with that?
Sony's logic would be "hey you like to play games? use PS3, oh and you like music, video and websurfing without worries? Here use OS X.
And all they had to do was pay Apple some license fee.
Look I would have my high end PowerMac, and MacMini for some media stuff. and if I can put PS3 into the loop so I can play good quality games, who loses? Maybe MS... Good way for Apple and Sony to stick it to them.
bazald: Avie Tevanian, Apple's CTO, was one of the original Mach kernel developers. Mach is the orignal kernel for BSD.
According to the New York Times, Sony already courted Apple to bring OS X to the cell rather than to Intel but Jobs turned Sony down. The article was entitled "What's Really Behind the Apple-Intel Alliance." It's now archived on the site, but you can get an excerpt from Macworld (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=11825&Page=1&pagePos=4).
Sony and Apple are competitors and Apple has the upper hand at the moment with the iPod. I don't see Jobs wanting to give Sony any assistance by, for example, allowing OS X on the PS3. Apple would rather have their own media center device.
Uhh... bazald
"What do you mean for once? Isn't basing their operating system off of FreeBSD riding on someone else's coat-tails? Not to mention copying the entire concept of a GUI from the Parc team all those years ago..."
Last time I checked FreeBSD is mostly text... Apple put in more time, money and effort to make this OS accepted through out the world than FreeBSD ever did. If you think of it. Apple put UNIX in the hand of millions of people. Who is riding who's coat-tail.
Again, I dont care if you come up with greatest idea, unless you get it to the masses, it means nothing. Which we can thank Apple for doing.
Stop your hate.
I'd tack this down as PR Hype from the Hype-machine that is Sony...that's just me though.
pspgamer: A port wouldn't be too hard to manage. Mac OS X was written to be as platform-independent as possible (e.g. endian issues, mostly standards-compliant code, etc.).
I'd like to see the PS3 running linux over Tiger. Not only would it be free for Sony, but they could twist it however they want without needing the approval of another company.
Let this be the beginning of the Apple+Sony merging..
Some of you people have to differenciate between this fact: OS X is not the OS that SOny is aiming for as the console's OS. OS X or other Linux distros are only being considered as add on to provide full computing prowess to complement the gaming aspects. So that has nothing to do with the gaming functions of the ps3
anyway, i really hope they do provide some sort of complete os. i bought a ps2 linux kit and it was great. as for those who think it doesnt make sense or attract people, the first batch of several thousand ps2 linux kits sold out in less than an hour in japan. if you can possibly find an american version on the internet now, it sells for twice the price.
if the implementation is done correctly, expect to see some drop dead gorgeous home brew stuff because even with the ps2 linux people have come up with really slick demos and stuff.
as for as the topic, i personally doubt that apple will license its os. if it wanted to do that, it wouldve to dell or something and penetrated millions of houses. but my guess is that they make much profit on the hardware side so dnt want to be undercut by dell or anyone else. they have some trump cards and are cashing in.
Could be just Darwin rather than full OS X - that might even avoid the license fees, and while the graphical elements of OS X are great (it is my personal OS of choice, and the one I am using to type this comment), I'm not sure a desktop/laptop UI is what a games console needs.
Darwin under the hood with a Sony graphics layer on top would seem like a good combo though. I can't believe a port of Darwin to the cell processor is any harder than any other OS (and I port OS's for a living ;-)
Some of you people have to differenciate between this fact: OS X is not the OS that SOny is aiming for as the console's OS. OS X or other Linux distros are only being considered as add on to provide full computing prowess to complement the gaming aspects. So that has nothing to do with the gaming functions of the ps3
anyway, i really hope they do provide some sort of complete os. i bought a ps2 linux kit and it was great. as for those who think it doesnt make sense or attract people, the first batch of several thousand ps2 linux kits sold out in less than an hour in japan. if you can possibly find an american version on the internet now, it sells for twice the price.
if the implementation is done correctly, expect to see some drop dead gorgeous home brew stuff because even with the ps2 linux people have come up with really slick demos and stuff.
as for as the topic, i personally doubt that apple will license its os. if it wanted to do that, it wouldve to dell or something and penetrated millions of houses. but my guess is that they make much profit on the hardware side so dnt want to be undercut by dell or anyone else. they have some trump cards and are cashing in.
Curious -
if PS3 runs OS X, would that mean that some Hacker could make the games run on a Mac, eventually? That would mean you wouldn't need to buy the PS3 at all, then, right?
I wonder if Apple hiring Sony engineers to engineer first-gen Macintel notebooks is going to be a bit of foreshadowing, like how Intel's CEO talked about how secure Macs just weeks before the Apple/Intel partnership.
Deep thoughts.
Even a cut down OS/X on the PS3 would be suberb for both parties. Sony get a mature, stable, tested & flexible O/S. Apple finally get some good games, released at a similar price & a similar date to one of the big consoles!
Sony make their money from the games not the consoles anyway, so if I were jobs I would licence OS/X for a few bucks a pop to Sony, but insist that all games releases for PS/3 have a Mac release, and hope that encourages folks to buy a Mac.
"Posted Aug 4, 2005, 11:41 PM ET by aes
Let this be the beginning of the Apple+Sony merging.."
Errrrr, lets remind ourselves that it's Sony Australia/BMG which is holding back the Australia release of the iTunes Music Store...
Whats the point of selling a console with OSX on it and being able to download from the Music Store, when your country doesnt even have the store to download from......
hey any one remember the last two days, sony and there lies?? well i do, what happend to 1080p. and what happend to spring of 2006??? for a secound there every one hated sony. even sony fan boys and even ken kuruuuwhat-ever his gay name is. this is just hype that sony had to come up with to get all you mac os x masterbaters happy about the ps3 again... but remember the saying (toy story like graphics)
sony is and will ever be full of lies... also the ps in ps3, stands for piece of s**t 3..
Even a cut down OS/X on the PS3 would be suberb for both parties. Sony get a mature, stable, tested & flexible O/S. Apple finally get some good games, released at a similar price & a similar date to one of the big consoles!
Sony make their money from the games not the consoles anyway, so if I were jobs I would licence OS/X for a few bucks a pop to Sony, but insist that all games releases for PS/3 have a Mac release, and hope that encourages folks to buy a Mac.
>39
Nope. The PS2 can run linux, but this DOES NOT mean that a linux box can run PS2 games. The architectures are completely different (and the OS kernels themselves would have NOTHING to do with running games).
Q.E.D.
yeah.. some people here seem to think Apple and Sony are buddy/buddy
Today Apple just launched iTMS Japan, which is really gonna piss Sony off... the iPod shuffle was *egads in #2 in the flash market.. rest assured, the iPod line is killing competition around the world.
Sony just lost their 'toehold'...
Let's just say it's bad timing for Sony to be doing Apple any favours...
;)
BTW. Linux vs. a $100 lisence? That's a no-brainer, isn't it?
Unless Apple is going to make a console of their own, which they aren't, it would be stupid for Apple to NOT licence OSX for the PS3. Speaking from the point of view of an Apple shareholder it would almost be criminal. It's not like the PS3 would get a full featured version of Tiger or anything. It would just make more people want to buy Macs. Apple needs to get off its high horse and take opportunities given to it to expand market share and maximize its profit so it can become a truly dominate player for the sake of its shareholders. The iPod phenom won't keep Apple afloat forever.
Oh it would be so sweet if they put a nice firmware linux on the machine with Firefox and a productivity suite like OpenOffice on it (and a VGA port). People would buy PS3's 2 at a time and the people at Microsoft would be crapping their pants. I mean - if this thing could play music and video, browse the Internet, and let the kids do their homework, AND play kickass games, why would anyone buy another Windows machine? It would be hasta la Vista for Windows in the home. If 19 inch LCD's with good speakers came down to <$200 by the time the PS3 ships I would put one each in my kids' rooms, restrict the Internet for supervised times, and only let the kids play games when they used OpenOffice to finish their homework.
"35. Posted Aug 4, 2005, 11:41 PM ET by aes
Let this be the beginning of the Apple+Sony merging.."
and lets' call the new company: Snapple
LOL Phil please tell me your joking. That wouldn't happen and everyone knows it. It would spell the end of Windows in the home. Thats really good, but seriously what do you REALLY think will happen. I'm willing to bet the PS3 will come with neither linux or osX. MS will make further ground in the game market and may possibly beat sony this time. Sony is promising the world with PS3, because they know they are in trouble.