J Allard sez there could be multiple Xbox 360 versions
By Ryan Block 
posted August 15th 2005 11:30AM
posted August 15th 2005 11:30AM
We kind of read it between the lines before in our interview with
Steve Ballmer, but apparently J Allard doesn't think the
Xbox 360 is a "one-size-fits-all" device for the
next five years. Apparently he mentioned telling their developers not to necessarily count on a hard drive being
present in the system when designing games, which implies a version that doesn't have a drive (as
previously speculated). But hell,
while they're making alternate versions of the system, who's to rule out one with a next-gen optical drive? Still,
we're pretty sure that if they do release a next-gen drive-based 360, it's probably not going to be with the first
round of systems.
[Thanks, JamesO]
oh nice one try apple tactics, let them but your big hit product and then use it to waro thier minds so they buy the second version and then the third and the fourth...........and so it goes on :|
They have these out already, they're called computers.
"it’s probably not going to be with the first round of systems."
which is exactly what will kill them. Sure, you'll get good sales to start, but when consumers hear a better version is going to come out later, probably after a price drop, they'll hold off. In the meantime, the Revolution and PS3 will see sky rocketing sales.
This is a horrible move, IMO.
Not having a hard drive in some versions means that can't even get the functionality the current XBOX has, because programmers can't rely on it (though this was already expected, since this harddrive is removable).
Putting a next gen drive in will only allow movies to be played, not any games to utilize the extra capacity, since some 360 owners won't have the drive.
Hasn't history taught us anything? The SegaCD, the 64DD, tons of other systems with "extras" or different versions have failed, or at least had those diff versions fail.
Poor, poor decision. Too bad MS has the cash to sustain this hit.
So our options are the box you're supposed to take out a second mortage to buy, or the box that'll be obsolete after a year.
Awesome.
I wonder - if you put Allard and Kutaragi together in a locked room, whose brain would be the first to explode with crazy?
Dan, you aren't up for the Revolution? Joystiq's own poll shows it to be the second most popular console, only a few hundred votes behind the 360 and many hundreds ahead of the PS3.
- At an expected launch price of $199 or $249, the rev will see impressive sales, especially with the PS3 so high.
I sure hope Nintendo releases details at the conventions at the end of this month. Any later will be too late.
Umm, the first iteration of the 360 will still have the hard drive. That's been confirmed. In fact it has also been speculated that the PS3 won't even come with a hard drive out of the box. So... I don't see how not having a hard drive in future iterations of the 360 is a cogent argument for the PS3's success at the cost of a 360 demise.
On your comments regarding the lack of a next generation drive. Until there is a standardized format, I (and plenty of other people) don't plan on buying into any type of next-gen high definition movie disc format. So I don't want to pay extra for it in a console. Wouldn't it suck paying $600 for a PS3 partially because it had blu-ray, only to see blu-ray tank? Sure you can speculate blu-ray will win out, or even hd-dvd will win out, or even something else. But the fact still remains. It's a good idea not to release a product that hinges on the sucess of something you're not certain about (unless in Sony's case, you're at the head of that product's consortium, and plan on producing hardware to play it anyway and are using the PS3 to help push it).
In fact if history teaches us anything, the 360 may as well be the winner in the next gen, assuming they don't royally screw up backwards compatibility. Because the PS2 in the last generation wasn't the most powerful system, but it was released first, had great 3rd party support (something xbox is working on strongly this time around), and wasn't terribly expensive to produce. That combined with Sony's ominous remarks about price, and the fact that they claim the PS3 will last 10 years in the market. All point to a 360 victory. In fact, if anything the PS3 is only marginally more powerful than the Xbox 360, both have been labeled as fairly dissapointing in the CPU department, and fantastic in the GPU department. So if the PS3 is only marginally more powerful than the Xbox 360, is it really worth waiting a year, and paying double the price for it?
But you can't use that information to predict which system will win out next generation. Because the same thing in the last generation won't necesarily hold true for the next generation. People may still hold on to their Sony ties. Heck Sony may blow everyone away with absolutely ridiculous 1st, and 3rd party exclusives.
Who knows.
"Dan, you aren't up for the Revolution? Joystiq's own poll shows it to be the second most popular console, only a few hundred votes behind the 360 and many hundreds ahead of the PS3."
And GameSpot's poll, with a larger sample (tens of thousands) and a more mainstream audience, has the Revolution a distant third. Which is likely where it will end up.
But MS has basically convinced me not to buy an Xbox 360. Sorry guys, this is not the way it works. I've already got a PC that I have to upgrade every few months. I buy a game console specifically so that all the games I buy for it will just work, and so I don't have to think about the hardware anymore after I buy it.
You're talking yourselves out of a bunch of sales here, guys. I know Bill G reads these comments here (he said so) - hopefully he'll learn something from us.
You would think these guys would be more careful when speaking in public.
Anyway, I don't think developers can ever rely on the hdd to be there because it is removable. The game should still work if someone removed the hdd.
Why would a future version of xbox not have a hdd? that is hard to understand.
"And GameSpot's poll, with a larger sample (tens of thousands) and a more mainstream audience, has the Revolution a distant third. Which is likely where it will end up."
I believe that most, if not all, of the polls that had the Rev at 3rd only allowed one choice. Joystiq's was specifically designed to allow multiple choices, since the Rev won't be the first choice for most consumers, but will be the second for MANY.
Just think, if a gamer is going to have 2 consoles this generation, which is more likely
A) PS3 AND 360
B) (PS3 OR 360) AND REVOLUTION
The Rev doesn't have to be the 'first' buy to be very, very profitable.
Man you people are dense. Speculating out of your asses like conspiracy theorists.
No console has ever had an upgraded optical drive part way through its release. Why are you talking about that?
Revolution is nothing but a hollow plastic shell shown at E3, you know nothing else about it. Why are you talking about it?
All signs point to all games working on an Xbox360 without the hard drive. Developers have long said that their docs say to build games assuming the hard drive is not there. The hard drive is detachable and adds cost to the product, so assume it will be optional for all games, and required for media center or other optional/upgraded features. Why assume otherwise?
Don't Slashdot up the comments on this site. If you only have stupid or fanboy comments to make, don't make them at all.
Who was the genius am MS that said "Really, I don't think backward compatibility is going to be a big issue."? If I still had to have out all the consoles for all the games I wanted to play, I'd have to have another component tower next to the one I have already.
Sony and Nintendo saw this coming, Sony did is with PS/PS2 and now PS3. Nintendo is going even farther and having 20 years of compatibility. MS dropped the ball on this one.
I have to agree with Jeff (#7) on this one. I spend enough money upgrading my home PC to have to do it with the game console I purchase as well.
Theres lot's of items that will factor into the coming next-gen console wars. I plan on waiting until more solid specs are released before I jump on a bandwagon.
Juan, read what is said. The first generation of Xbox 360's will have an OPTION to use the hdd, unlike what u are thinking. That means the developers will have to design games without counting on hard drive support. Its no different from the ps3, which will have the option as well.
What's more, the lack of next gen media severely limits the games which can be made. Sure, at first, the dvd will be a decent medium, but so was the CD. We already have tons of multiple disk dvd games. That is why microsoft plans hd-dvd support, but in its second generation. Would u like to buy a console that gets outdated in 1-2 years? Blu-ray might tank, but the fact is, it still willbe an excellent games medium. So, ur point is?
Thirdly, no one knows what the performance comparisons are actually, its not that clear cut. Show me a few reviews that glorify the xbox, i will show you hundreds which glorify the ps3. No one knows as of now. It depends on the programmers, if they will be able to eak out performance out of these machines. They will make the difference.
Xbox is working on 3rd party support, but sony isnt lagging much behind, also having the vast ps1/ps2 library to fall back on. We cant say at this moment who will win out in the end.
And i dont know about you, i like a long lived system. Value for my money. The way this xbox is going, i would have to buy anotehr in 1-2 years......come on!
We truly cannot predict what will happen next, but this news simply worsens the playing field microsoft has. With their early to the market advantage, if they flop, they will have only themselves to blame.
I thought the whole point of a console vs. a PC was that you could count on system-standard specifications with a console. Developers have to cater to the lowest common denominator. So, if a version comes out with an HD-DVD player later, either the early adopters have to be ignored (unlikely), two versions will be created (also unlikely), or the developers will just release a single version that caters to the lowest system specs. Hopefully, Microsoft will clear up the confusion--because this sounds like a big mistake.
Bah then if they are not going to have the next-gen disk drives out for the first batch of systems, they should offer a trade-in or free upgrade or SOME sort of upgrade for when they DO release the drives. Otherwise, that's not fair.
"Dan, you aren't up for the Revolution?"
So far I can't say anything one way or the other about the Revolution, thanks to Miyamoto's evident (and entirely appreciated) strategy of "shutting the fuck up and not saying anything crazy."
I realize that Nintendo has made some statements about the Rev, it's just that, while they have been refreshingly sane, they've also been a bit vague for me to guess at how they'll translate into an actual system.
"No console has ever had an upgraded optical drive part way through its release. Why are you talking about that?"
Yes it has. The Neo Geo CD upgraded it's drive halfway through its lifespan.
Umm, the first iteration of Xbox 360 has already been confirmed to have a hard drive, or at the very minimum have the ability to use a hard drive that will be sold at the same time as the Xbox 360's release. However, I'm almost positive it has been confirmed that Xbox 360 will come with a hard drive). This article is stating that future iterations may not have hard drives.
Using current generation optical drives dosen't limit game developers becuase they can just use multiple disks, as has been done in the past. Sure, it's somewhat bothersome, however, I find it a much more suitable arrangement then to have to pay 100-200 dollars more for a possible betamax format.
Sure it's a shame that the next generation consoles are coming out before a clear succesor to the DVD has been found in order to incorporate that into next gen consoles. But there's no way you're getting me to pay 100-200 dollars extra for a possibly defunct format. Give me multiple disks over that any day.
If blu-ray is the next betamax, and you buy a PS3, then you basically wasted 200 potential dollars on an HD-DVD player, I don't know about you, but that would piss me off. That and if Blu-ray dosen't catch on as a new movie format, it could become prohibitively expensive to produce the proprietary format as Sony will probably never see economies of scale on blu-ray production. That's too many ifs, I want something concrete. Having to switch a disk after an hour of gameplay (though it will likely be alot more than that) isn't something that turns me off to a system. And having an older storage format in no way automaticaly labels a piece of hardware obsolete. The hardware is obsolete when it no longer lives up to it's competitors. Look at the gamecube of this generation, it used a proprietay dvd format that was significantly smaller than that of other systems, yet that wasn't a problem with the system.
BTW I never claimed Sony was lagging in 3rd party support. I'm only claiming that Microsoft is doing a fantastic job of it for the xbox 360, relative to the Xbox's release.
As for your biased statement regarding number of favorable reviews for the PS3 as opposed to the 360, that's just not true. And even if it was true, this fact will likely have no correlation to each systems capabilities. Read Anandtech's analysis of each systems hardware to see what I'm talking about.
Of course that's an if... There's too many ifs, and maybes right now to predict anything. Heck we don't even know how backwards compatible the Xbox 360 is going to be.
"...they should offer a trade-in or free upgrade or SOME sort of upgrade for when they DO release the drives. Otherwise, that's not fair."
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Since when is business (in general) fair ? Since when is MICROSOFT (in particular) fair ? How many anti-trust law suits have been filed against them ? How many class actions ?
That said, I actually agree, it wouldn't be fair, I simply find the notion that a for-profit company the likes of Microsoft would actually take morality and fair play into account amusing.
In a surprise move MS may out of necessity bump the price UP if a later version has the higher spec optical drive. Totally a break with console tradition of the ever decreasing hardware cost, but I suppose MS can run it how they like (even if the lose TONS of money).
I suppose it wouldn't be as unfair if the later version costs more, since that would mean everyone got what they paid for. IMHO, it's kinda backwards though. 'Lite' versions usually come out after the base product, not before. At that point people know more by reviews and word of mouth what features they do and don't want, so giving them a choice becomes practical...
Who knows, what with planned obsolesence and such, maybe the early standard DVD 360s will be made to such a low quality level that they will be nigh garunteed to die LONG before games needing the larger capacity discs become the norm, and first run buyers will have to buy a new console anyway...
Quite a contrast to the 'Methusela(sp)' of the console world that the 10 year PS3 is supposed to be (I know they actually mean the products life cycle and not necessarily any one specific unit of hardware - I'm just funnin')...
"we don't even know how backwards compatible the Xbox 360 is going to be"
We do know that in all likelyhood it will be nowhere near the compatibility the PS2 has with the PS1 (99%), since the PS2 had the actual chips built in, whereas the 360 will need emulation.
I fully expect the PS3 to have a hand in deciding the next gen disc format. Millions of Blu-Ray consumers will be looking for the discs after the PS3's launch. How many HD-DVD consumers will there be, especially considering many are sitting on the fence waiting for the war to be won? When the standalone players cost upwards of $800, I think the modestly priced PS3 will look pretty attractive as a early next gen player.
After all, DVDs had been around awhile, but the PS2 helped to make their market explode.
The whole Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD thing pisses me off and the fact that the game consoles get into it angers me even further. Seriously who uses their game console to watch movies anyways. Why cater to the small percentage of people who do? I understand what Sony is thinking by putting Blu-Ray in PS3 to get wide addoption, but that alone isnt going to do it. I really hope the whole format thing is decided before the disks go to market because the only people who are going to loose if there is a format war is us! Also I dont know how much everyone has read about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD but from my understanding HD-DVD is a cop out format. It is a slight upgrade from the current format and is not future proof by any means. It is the format that makes the production people happy because it doesnt cost as much initially. Blu-Ray has the capability to expand the amount of data on a disk over the years as more is needed without having to buy another player. I dont know about everyone else but I would like a format that will last longer over the quick and cheep option.
uh, yeah i highly doubt that if microsoft released an hd-dvd compatible xbox 360 that they would release hd-dvd xbox 360 games, since they would be alienating all of the gamers who bought the initial consoles. even though "micro$oft is the devil", right? everyone thinks that microsoft's dominance role in the os market applies to the game console market. "oh, micro$oft will make me keep buying add-ons for my xbox". hey, wasn't that what sony did with the ps2? if my memory is correct, you had to spend about 30 dollars to play with four people and around 20 or so dollars to save your game. but you know, i'm probably lying.
Optional hard drive? What are you thinking M$? Supposedly, the hard drive will store the emulation files that you need for backwards compatability. Does this mean that if there is no hard drive that those 360s won't be backwards compatable? Makes sense as time goes on, except for the fact that game developers can no longer plan on it being there. Ugh, what a poor decision.
IMO, this disk format stuff is retarded and pointless. I think both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have a far greater chance of going the route of the Laser Disk than they do of being the next DVD as far as popularity goes. Whatever format comes after them on some new medium will be the true media format of the next gen. I think HD-DVD is trying to be a bridge to that format where as Blu-Ray is trying to be THE next format. Sorry, but I'm not going to spend $25 a movie (Blu-Ray) just to get a 1080p picture instead of 720p. If it all comes down to storage size, then Blu-Ray wins, but I don't think that's nearly a big enough motivation for the general public to adobt it.
Anyway, I don't think the next gen DVD format will affect the quality of games for the 360 (it only renders 720p anyway so size isn't the same concern as the PS3), where as the possibility of the lack of a future hard drive might affect game quality. I think the only option with a hard drive for the future should be whether it is internal or external.
This is far less of a big deal than it is being made out to be. Only a small number of Xbox games truly require the hard drive. Most only use it for caching and quite a few don't even do that. Their sole support is for save data. While the hard drive dependent titles include some of my favorites, it isn't going to do much to most titles, especially multi-platforms games, other than require testing both with and without the drive.
The tradeoff is that the machine can be marketed in some areas where price sensitivity is greater and an optional drive is acceptable. Games that require the drive would carry an label making this clear just as an EyeToy mentions need to own the EyeToy camera.
Those predicting doom and gloom with the hard drive reduce to an unsupported add-on are simply not paying attention. All indications are that the drive will be standard in the major markets and those are the installed bases that will drive developer's decisions. If a game that generates massive save data and has serious caching needs to avoid constant waiting for switching out data can count on the US market having the number of hard drive equipped consoles needed to create a sufficient market, then the developer isn't going to worry much about the viability of the game in those lesser market where the drive isn't standard. It will be the decision of the local publisher as to whether the game is viable in that region.
Meanwhile, the whole HD-DVD upgrade issue is just smoke. The base configuration of the platform is using DVD-9 discs as the software delivery medium. The availability of a model that also plays HD-DVD movies would have no bearing on that unless it sells incredibly well it would simply be ignored by game publishers other than to hope it added a lot to the overall installed base of the platform. It would be little different from the Panasonic unit that combined the GameCube with a DVD player. The standard format for GameCube software was never affect by the existence of a model that could potentially use the greater capacity of full sized DVD. It was just a package to extend the appeal of the platform and hopefully reach that many more consumers.
Uh. Just me, but didn't we know this in February?
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000100032808
"Man you people are dense. Speculating out of your asses like conspiracy theorists.
No console has ever had an upgraded optical drive part way through its release. Why are you talking about that?"
...
Wow. You accuse other people of being dense?
BTW, file this console upgrade under "Miserable Failure"
http://www.cyberiapc.com/vgg/pics/sega_megacd1.jpg
LOL at kids who don't know gaming history.
When I was little, we played on a system called the Atari 2600. Everybody had an Atari 2600. Everybody. A variety of add-ons came out, some were revolutionary. I got the Starpath Supercharger for Christmas one year... Awesome. It gave the 2600 more memory and better graphics. The games loaded via cassette and some were really good. The first console RPG ever, "Dragonstomper" was on the Supercharger, as well as a great Galaga-type game called "Commie Mutants from Outer Space," and a great pack-in title, "Phaser Patrol," a 3d-looking space shooter. It got great reviews.
It flopped. Even with great reviews and good launch titles.
Another Christmas, (or birthday...I can't recall) I got the CVC Gameline, which worked with not only the 2600, but with every other system out there. For just a one-time $15 member fee, you could download tons of games via the phone line. It was revolutionary.
It also flopped. Just like the Colecovision computer add-on, and the multitude of Sega add-ons (including the aforementioned Sega CD) and the Nintendo DD, and the Playstation 2 HDD all flopped.
Even extremely useful and far less-costly add-ons have a great chance to fail. Why don't more games use light guns when they work great and they aren't that expensive? Why are steering wheels a niche market, and thus still cost $150 or more for a good one? Sony wouldn't be spending a dime on the EyeToy if it weren't for the fact that video conferencing is down the road, and even with that killer app, you don't see them playing it up too much, in case it fails.
There is no conspiracy. If anything is working against these plans, it is gaming history, plain and simple. No one has ever been able to pull this move off in the marketplace.
Microsoft does have one thing going for it that no other console/add-on maker has ever had:
It has XBox live. By that, I mean it has a direct channel to their customers to hype their latest products ranging from direct, obvious advertising/marketing, to almost-subliminal "guerilla" marketing and XBox Live users' "peer-pressure." Look at how well this combination is working marketing the 360 right here on Engadget.
Still, upgrades for gaming consoles are generally a bad idea if you want to make money.
#22
No, the Xbox 360 is not limited to 720p. That mode is being treated as the minimum target for developers. It offers a very noticeable improvement over NTSC while leaving enough performance for the more complex real time action scenarios. There are many genres where 1080i will likely be supported. For instance, an exploration driven adventure game would have less animation demands and could draw on the greater resolution for pushing the visual splendor.
720p is notably similar to what PC gamers have been accustomed to for quite some time and thus makes a good target for advancing the console field.
Don't be taken in by Sony's 'dual 1080p' hype. They're subject to the same realities as everyone else. Just because you have the hardware to drive two 1080p displays simultaneously does not assure you have the horsepower left to get anything very interesting happening on those screens with interactivity. Great for demos but less useful for actual games and largely there solely because their GPU was adapted from an Nvidia PC part indevelopment when it became apparent the original multiple-Cell concept for the PS3 was univiable. When you consider the improbability of a large audience for dual HD display games it seems probable that the second video output will br removed to cut costs. Dual monitors are very useful for computers but less so for game systems. PS3 developers will very likely also target 720p as the best combination of resolution and animation performance for their work.
epobirs - Sorry for the confusion, I consider 720p and 1080i to be equal resolutions (both about 1 million pixels per frame where as 1080p is about 2 million). All games for the 360 are being developed in 720p and then converted to 1080i via the console or the TV. Developers for the PS3 have stated that 720p is currently the de facto standard for their development as well.
#25
When it comes to optional items on consoles their success or failure has to be taken in context.
Right off the top, third party add-ons from tiny companies are not serious contenders. When the platform owner is actively against your product, as Atari was with the Starpath, it's never going to be a big item. And that was in the days before the consoles themselves were secured against unauthorized third party games. Doing something like Starpath today except as an underground homebrew tool would be impossible.
The Nintendo 64 DD add-on was delayed for years and ultimately only offered in Japan. For US purposes it was never any better than a persistent rumor. Not so much a failure as non-existent.
The Sega CD was much too expensive and didn't offer much of anything to most existing console game developers. The hardware added some very nice graphic effects to the platform but most were reluctant to invest their time in learning to use these functions and produce games that would only run on a small subset of the Genesis market. Sega simply dropped the ball on promoting those features and Core Design was one of the only third parties to do much with the capability.
Nintendo had a far better design (especially by having the costly FX chip for 3D built-in and making it viable to third parties) and price point for their SNES CD add-on but got cold feet after Sega's troubles and cancelled the product before launch.
Sony's big screwup with the HDD Kit for the Ps2 is that it didn't ship until years after launch of the PS2. There was simply no reason for this. This was all off the shelf technology and didn't require a huge R&D effort on the software side. If it had been in developer's hand before or at launch and in US stores within 6-12 months of the PS2 launch it would have been widely supported. If all games were required to support it as a nearly unlimited memory card (not unreasonable if it were available at an early enough time)that would have been sufficient to sell the unit to a substantial portion of PS2 buyers. But coming out late as it did only left developers and consumers both wondering why they should bother.
That would not be at issue for the Xbox 360. As I said above, if the drive is standard in the major markets that is what will drive developer's decisions.
Check out the Xbox 360 in BLACK! Black I say! Black is the New Black Again!
http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/xbox2/xbox-360-black.html
I for one feel this entire article is just here to start strife. There is so many contradictory statements. I have seen "proof" that every 360 will ship with a hard drive. Now we have "proof" that it is optional...whatever. I could care less about this HD-DVD , Bluray garbage because the other 95% of the gaming public could care less. Walk into an EB and start asking customers there "do you prefer HD DVD or Bluray as your storage medium for the next generation of consoles?" Watch the soccer moms call the cops.
I would hope that the PS3 supporters would please quiet up a bit. It is like watching a Cubs fan talk about there chances for winning the World Series. Though I can see my ass getting one too. You will not get your paws on one before late next year. I cannot understand as a human being people actually looking at a fax of specs for a console that doesn't exist saying to themselves " PS3 IS so much better than the X Box 360 , I just know it is." Have any of you gamed before? There will be no Mid - Summer launch of any console. Get reared up for one in Oct. or Nov. '06 if you live in North America. Sony is not worried about just the hard core gamer they are worried about every household. Every Mom , Dad , Grandmother and Uncle Joe , that would buy a PS3.
My take on this "multiple" 360 story -
To me, the Hard Disk WAS ALWAYS a concession ie the original 360 spec never had one. The vociferous minority demanded one, so MS complied.
When the hardcore/early adopters have bought the 360 with a Hard Disk, MS brings a cheaper 360 without a Hard Disk for the casuals/fence-sitters. And starts selling them memory cards or even hard disks seperately.
Think of it this way: even if a single Hard Disk costs MS (for the sake of argument) $10 in bulk and MS sells 10 million 360's, that's $100 million, right there. That's a lot of money - even for Microsoft.
MS desperately wants to turn the corner with 360 and move into profit so that MS can turn the 360 project into a viable business. If removing the Hard Disk will allow them that much leeway in terms of the loss they suffer on the hardware, that's what MS will do.
It should also be remembered that the Starpath people got dragged into some litigation over 'Frogger' between Sierra On-line and Parker Bros. The deal was that Parker Bros. had ROM rights and Sierra had magnetic media rights. This was assumed to mean that Parker Bros. would only do console version and Sierra computer versions. The Starpath's addition of magnetic media to the Atari 2600 changed this and Parker Bros. threw a legal hissy fit when Sierra did a Starpath version of 'Frogger' that blew away the very lucrative PB cart for the Atari. (The rights for the cartridge version on the Atari 400/800 was in contention, too but that was a far smaller market than the VCS.) The Starpath people got dragged into the case despite their limited involvement and the resulting legal costs left them severely weakened. IIRC this is the reason the Starpath was marketed under two different brand names.
This is straight from the Horse's Mouth Guys. Remember though, you heard it here first because this info cost the lives of several very undercover moles in the Microsoft and Sony Studios.
First of all, all daytime production of the 360 has been put on hold. Only second and third shift workers are allowed inside the studios now, and everyone has to sign iron-clad non-disclosure agreements. Word is a big part of the first shift wouldn't do it. Some got fired, others got put on things like "controller interface design" - boring stuff that's really not that important.
Anyway the word is that the 360 is actually undergoing a second phase of engineering. The hard drive will be replaced genetically enhanced human brain. It will be able to mimic personality and interact with you as though it was a real person...trapped in a tiny plastic box. Further, it will go online when you're not there and mock your enemies for xbox live, do your shopping, and find hotties that can't wait to take off their underpants. They say these brains are fiercely loyal and the good ones actually went online and started sabotaging other xboxes and (particularly) their mortal enemies the PS2 system. I got an early production model and use it to mimic my charming personality and rapier wit when I'm too busy building robots to chat online with the honies.
Basically this android capability is why Microsoft employees have been put on the non disclosure agreement, and why so many of them have been disappearing lately. Some are rumored to have taken home their pre-prods and haven't wanted to leave them alone. They can be very friendly and like to butter up their owners. Mine keeps calling me "your grace" but I tell it just to call me Jared. Or Mr. Roddy. In any case Sony is afraid people will start hanging out with their xboxes socially.
An added problem is that these "intellexboxes" (its a working title, Mr. Gates came up with it himself) is that they can make friends with one another and some fear that they could one day figure out that they're basically indestructable (hell, they could read it here -- they're probably watching already) and we humans are no match for their powers. Also, the graphics rock!
vidGuy wrote:
***"it’s probably not going to be with the first round of systems."
which is exactly what will kill them. Sure, you'll get good sales to start, but when consumers hear a better version is going to come out later, probably after a price drop, they'll hold off. In the meantime, the Revolution and PS3 will see sky rocketing sales.***
I don't think that is what Allard meant. I think that what they will do is release the first one with the 20 gig drive, and future ones either with OR without a drive, opting instead to let the customer decide on what size drive to get for it, if they want to.
See, if they release it originally with the 20 gig for, say $300, they can drop the price to $200 in less than a year WITHOUT a drive, and just have markings on all the games from Day One stating that they use the hard drive.
By that time, odds have it that they might be coming out with larger drives, so people who have the 20 gig ones can upgrade if they want to.
In the meantime, developers can still use the 20 gig as the "standard," since they know all the early adopters have one.
im buyng a 360. im not buying a ps3. the psp made that decision for me - its qc is terrible, the support is awful and the design sucks. xbox? qc is great, support is great, and well, design couldve been better. this time around? all i see is good design and a dope ass line up of games. i will be preordering the first generation and yes, i will buy a revolution, if for nothing else than the hope that they will make animal crossing for it :x
upgrading optical drives in the xbox? you dont think these people have though about how theyll do this at all? how many people here have opened their xbox/ps2/gamecube? replacing the drive is simple, it would take a trained, paid employee all of 7 minutes. while i find it hard to believe that theyd go and releae a 2nd generation of the same console, if they did i dont think it would hurt sales one bit. who knows, behind that removable faceplate may be an easily reaplceable dvd drive...wouldnt that make all sorts of sense?
Nice try at a story and controversy, but MS announced at E3 that the 360 would include a 20gig hard drive. MS also dispelled all rumors of multiple versions at release (40 gig hd version etc). Allard is probably speaking about the future of the console. Possibly a budget, gaming version. without all of the features (no HD) for less money and maybe a larger drive with more functions (bluray or HD) for more money. There will be only one machine on release (20 gig), because of the difficulty of producing enough for release.
Gates already stated that a HD-DVD drive will be added into the system later on in it's life cycle, which basically means the early adopters will be stuck with a limited system a year into its life.
All this debate over PS3 vs Xbox360. Does anyone realize the realtive market shares of the current generation of console systems? Do you realize its not a close battle between PS2 and Xbox? Do you realize that PS2 is dominating the market while Xbox and GAMECUBE fight it out for second? At once point GC was a clear second, it could be the other way around now, but the point still stands- It's not about Sony vs MS for the number 1 spot.
Next gen will be no different. People don't read internet forums all day debating about the pros and cons of each system. Playstation is THE name in video games. Most people will buy a PS3, period. No reason is needed. It certainly will have sufficient hardware and software- thats a given. Likewise, people will buy the Revolution. Older people. People who have kids. That is why the GC has been so successful despite the belief that Xbox and PS2 are the "major players" and "OMG Nintendo is going to go out of business LOL!!".
Microsoft is the company with a lot to prove this generation. Their release and games will have to be mind-blowingly awesome to turn the tides. It's not as simple as "well they can just sell a bit more than last gen and compete with Sony". They are losing the battle with Sony bigtime and they are not profitable. I wouldn't be surprised if this is MS' last console. Nothing I have seen would support the belief that MS will take next-gen by storm and take up a huge market share and prove the "Sony can get 53% market share with PlayStation 3" prediction by DFC Intelligence wrong.
Nintendo obviously isn't going to gain much of a market share either, but they are not competing directory with Sony. They are primarily targeting a different group of people. Their system will be inexpensive. Most importantly, they are profitable when doing this. Nintendo will be around for quite a while longer. Microsoft is competing directly with Sony and are already at a massive disadvantage and will no doubt make little money in the process.
Hahah... looks like MS is going through the phase of feature cutting, that xbox fanboys seem to be blaming Sony for.
MS has dug a hole for themselves by promising that all xboxes will come with HDD, and now they are trying to get out of this obligation and saying that future versions will not come with HDD.
They are probably seeing the light now, in that to make profit, they have to force consumers to purchase their proprietary memory cards or HDD at a higher price point (for saving/data caching, emulation software for backward compatibility). Cutting features from the xbox (the HDD) is just the first part. I wouldn't be surprised that they say that some versions of the xbox will probably have one processor disabled, or they will have to purchase xbox2.1 for HD-DVD capability. DOH.
I belive the main intention for allard to tell delevopers not to have to count on the hard drive was so that it can be removed without stopping all of your gameplay.
Slashbunny,
Are you an idiot or do you just have a bad memory? Remeber SNES? What was Sony's marketshare then? If this was 1995, you comment would have been:
"Next gen will be no different. People don't read internet forums all day debating about the pros and cons of each system. Super Nintendo is THE name in video games. Most people will buy a N64, period. No reason is needed."
Slashbunny - Your points are pretty valid about the PS3s likely dominance for the next gen. However when you say 'Nothing I have seen would support the belief that MS will take next-gen by storm and take up a huge market share and prove the "Sony can get 53% market share with PlayStation 3" prediction by DFC Intelligence wrong', I think you fail to realize that that would be a 17% loss in market share for Sony which is pretty significant. The Xbox is the #2 console right now worldwide and especially in the US. FYI - I don't know who DFC is, but a couple of financial industry "experts" have predicted 40-45% market share for both PS3 and 360 in the US.
kristane - "I wouldn't be surprised that they say that some versions of the xbox will probably have one processor disabled" is quite impossible since the 360 only has 1 processor (3 cores, but you can't disable a core without increasing cost).
As stated by Microsoft, at launch your only option is a 360 with a hard drive (IMO a good thing). In the future, if M$ wanted to release a cheaper 360 without a hard drive and maybe allow for thumb drive support, I'd be all for that too. I don't think many games (any?) use the hard drive as a cache mechanism during game play anyway. Having different flavors of the 360 isn't a bad thing because the core hardware will remain the same. I can easily see a cheaper mini-360 when they consolidate the graphics card to 1 die and remove hard drive support. Also, a high end 360 with a next gen DVD drive and ~100GB hard drive but all games will still be on dual-layer DVDs. The gaming components will still be the same, but accessories will change to meet market demand.
"Q: Why did Microsoft upgrade the technology in Xbox 360?
A: Last year, Microsoft floated specifications that disappointed game developers. The new box, code-named Xenon, only had 256 megabytes of dynamic random access memory. And it lacked a hard disk drive. The bean counters had ruled that including a disk drive was a bad move, from a business view. It didn't get Microsoft a price premium over Sony. And it cost $50, making it the most expensive thing in the box. When the Xbox debuted in 2001, Microsoft was losing $125 on every machine. It never recovered from that money-losing start.
By last year, the hard disk was out. But after getting negative feedback, Microsoft decided to double the DRAM to 512 megabytes and to include a 20-gigabyte hard disk. While that added cost to the box, Microsoft says it found other ways to cut costs. And now the box will be better future-proofed against the Nintendo and Sony boxes. There's less risk that Microsoft will be "Dreamcasted.""
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=9120
One very important thing the EVERYONE has overlooked....
How the hell do you connect the 5.1 surround sound to the 360?
Pay extra for that too?
One very important thing the EVERYONE has overlooked....
How the hell do you connect the 5.1 surround sound to the 360?
Pay extra for that too?
All the idiots here who think that 360 is coming out with a new system with a hard-drive in about a years time are stupid. There will be none of this for i have spoken with the man himself at MS and have confirmed that they maybe be making a slimmer model but nothing more than that.
So please all, keeping the mouths shut as you know nothing!