The solar powered Prius
By Ryan Block 
posted Aug 17th 2005 11:15AM
posted Aug 17th 2005 11:15AM
As if a rollover while driving wasn't devastating enough—let alone the bird poop up top and random kung fu masters
driving motorcycles over your car—now you've got to worry about keeping the solar panels on the roof of your car clean
too? Still, we've to to take our hats off to Steve Lapp's solar-modded Prius, which runs now 10% more efficiently than
it did before on mere regenerative juice.
[Via Treehugger]
Toyota Prius sucks. This is an UGLY, SMALL, car that looks like a reject from GM's Concept papers.
Thank god I make enough money to not worry about the $2.50 gas prices.
As long as I can put gas in my Escalade, its all good to me.
Nice attitude -- why don't you write a check directly to Osama bin Laden, and skip the middle man?
I have to agree with #1 to an extent, especially with the ugly comment. I was all set to lease the $26K Prius (complete with the nav and all the other upgraded goodies) but was completely turned off by the really ugly and cheap feeling interior, the absurd rear-view-killing semi-hatchback and the flat out crazy lease payments.
I went across the street to the Mercedes dealer and leased a C280 with a sticker a full 10K higher, for $150 less a month.
Very cool idea for a very cool car. I wish they would offer that as an add-on option.
unfortunatly the 10% more juice is with the old prius. the newer models have been alot more efficient
Jonathan N:
it is people like YOU that we have to pay 2.50. I myself got a lexus hybrid even though yes i know it is ironic but where I live, it is needed.
Ryan:
You would had made up your $150 more a month for the hybrid in no time becuase of the "cheap gas"
Jonathan N,
what better way to show of your manhood then drive around an Escalade... you tool
#2 Osama Bin Laden's bank accounts have been FROZEN by America, and the EUROPEAN UNION. That is why terrorists are currently attempting to barter with diamonds, weapons and gold boullion.
"Writing checks to Osama" is a typical Right winger, uneducated, south-western American, White anglo saxan christian's way of saying...
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE WORLD'S MONETARY SYSTEM WORKS.
I bet you still think Iraq had WMD too !
Perhaps I should comment on how you're support for Chinese made devices is putting more money in the PRC governments hands so they can build more nuclear ballistic missiles to threaten America?
# 3 - Out of curiosity, what state are you in. The local dealers in VA have said that Toyota will not lease the Prius - it is for purchase only.
Also, you leased a C280? Recently? They have not made a C280 for some time now (as in '99 I beleive).
yeah #1. I'm so for you and your ability to just suck up the planet's resources! Screw the dumb ass who wants to try to make a positive impact. He's such a dork. I'm inspired. I think I'll just turn the A/C up to full and turn on all the gas burners because I like the pretty light they make. While I eat off of designer rainforest paper plates.
#5
It is because of people like me:
buying GM and FORD cars, instead of running out buying the latest piece of Japanese/ Chinese shrapnel that keeps America's economy afloat.
Those American Car companies help make america a strong economy and a strong country. I want my country to be the strongest in the world. You are willing to save $1 on gas at the expense of the American economy.
I would NEVER buy a non American made Car no matter what the cost of gas or the vehicle. If I have to pay more for gas I'll just work harder.
GM's next Escalade is suppossed to get 20 MPG due to GM's VVT technology. When that hits, I'll trade mine in.
While you suckers are meandering around in your little Toyotas and Hondas, I'll be sitting high and mighty with my American made SUV which BTW would totally cripple you in the event of a car accident.
Ever see what happens when a Prius rear-ends an American made SUV?
It goes under the tire!
Rainforest paper plates? Where do I get some?
I have a Suburban, same gas mileage as the Escalade, and to me, WTF? You are hammering on jon (and me now, probably) about gas and natural resources and crap; what about our politicians driving the Escalades? I don't see them driving the hybrids/environmentally friendly cars.
I hate the gas prices, but like jon, its my choice to drive my 'burban and pay the prices. Hell, I couldn't even fit in a Prius; I'm a big boy. And, yes, the AC is cranking while I throw foam bigmac containers out the window with my whale-skin leather...
#9
I am 6'7 tall. I wouldn't fit in one of those LITTLE kiddie Cars because of the POOR legroom, POOR headroom and POOR 2nd row seating. Most of the people in my family are quite tall.
Japanese and Euro imports are made for PUNY people who average 5'9 tall.
If you want a little baby car, thats fine by me. In fact, the more people who buy hybrid vehicles will only make thing better for me since the demand for oil/petroleum will decrease and so too will the price of gasoline.
I wish all of you would go out and get energy savers tommorrow !
10
No it isnt because of you that keeps the american economy afloat... infact it is people like you that SINKS the american economy.
if you work harder to make more money, you better start working 24/7
So he's adding an extra battery (more weight, takes up more space in a car with almost no extra space) and then adding solar panels (more weight, worse drag) and this makes the car more efficient? That battery is probably not safe in a landfill in three years when he needs to replace it, and don't forget the parts cost money (which is earned in an energy-burning office or maybe an oil-slurping factory) and are made with petroleum-based plastic and assembled in a power-hungry factory, probably using more energy than the panels could produce in a lifetime.
It would be more than 10% efficient if the guy carpooled instead, or maybe bought a cheap bike.
nice trolling, #1
#10 A HUGE percentage of 'Japanese' and other foreign cars are American made. Would you consider buying those? If not, would you buy American cars produced in Canada or another foreign country? What's your definition of American made?
BTW...I've been getting over 27 mpg in my non-hybrid CR-V for the last 106,000 miles. I've considered getting a hybrid but there since most of my miles are highway miles, I probably wouldn't see those slightly better mileage figures that current hybrids offer.
Most "Japanese" cars sold in the US are made in the US now, and the US automakers outsource to Mexico quite extensively.
Anyway, I drive a crappy fuel ineffecient American car, but that's because I'm poor and can't afford a good car.
#13
I don't consider $2.55 a gallon - even $3.00 a gallon too much for me. My Escalade EXT costs me exactly $65 to fill up for one week (assuming I drive every single day) and I allways fill up on Sunday.
Certain days I take mass transit to my job in Manhattan because its faster and I save energy for that week (especially in the winter).
I don't care what you think about my comments, but you should understand that thats the way the upper middle class and rich feel about it in America.
The only people crying about gas prices are the lower middle class and the working poor who have to choose between filling up their inneficient vehicles OR buying food that week from Walmart or wherever the hell else it is they shop.
The way I see it, if you can't afford gas, don't buy a car; live in an easily accessible area for mass transit and STOP TRYING TO LIVE LIKE THE UPPER CLASSES DO UNTIL YOU CAN AFFORD IT!
When you star making what I do per year, then you can move up the ranks.
Rather than these expensive hybrid cars I'd like to see something like the Honda Jazz in the USA. It's a nice mid-sized hatchback which gets 60mpg from it's conventional petrol engine and it costs half what a Prius costs.
Am I the only one who can appreciate this article for what it is meant to be? It's cool: that's all there is to it. The guy stuck some solar panels on his car. It would be even cooler if he had figured out how to run Linux on the car's dashboard display, but still. It's a freakin technology article, meant to show off technology, and yet you insist on flaming each other over petty political issues. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go mock trolls on Slashdot.
this is funny. I've seen something like this on a pure electric vehicle before.
those solar panels probably cost somewhere between $400 - $700 to buy. I doubt that the gas that the owner saves will ever recoup the cost within the car's lifetime, unless the price of gas shoots up dramatically.
A plugin hybrid would do a lot better in terms of saving money than putting a solar panel on that car.
Jonathan N:
Ever since your inspiring post #1 I've been working hard to "move up the ranks" and start making what you do per year. Unfortunately you never told me how much that is but I think I'm getting close. It's only now that I can afford nice things like Lasik surgery that I've been able to see just how ugly hybrid cars are, how boring Walmart is and how beautiful white republicans driving escalades are. Thank You - I'm eternally grateful.
Let me explain to you in laymens terms how American outsourcing works.
#1 American companies outsource jobs (i.e. Mexico, China, India, etc)
#2 America pays those 3rd world countries 10 times less than it would pay an America worker.
This allows said company to gain more and more profit.
#3 America taxes those companies which adds to the American economic growth.
#4 Since the American companies are making so much money (paying low wages to foreigners) their growth is exponential and investors choose to invest heavily in those companies which tend to continously expand.
#5 As the Companies grow, They can contribute more to America's Economic growth and military power. This includes production of CONTRACTORS such as GE, GM, and even Exxon.
The only people being hurt by job outsourcing are people who don't have the skills to do another job or people that occupy the lowest end manufacturing/service jobs. These outsourcings don't have a huge impact on the American economy but, the taxes that can be gained by taxing the comapies does.
Buying American made cars ensures that the Americans with higher end jobs (not manufacturing) keep those jobs and foreigners keep getting payed pennies to produce $50,000 vehicles.
My Escalade EXT was made in Mexico for far less than it was sold in America for. I'm ok with that because I know that Im helping America finance the war on, Islamic terrorism and smaller hateful countries that "wanna act up". I work for Lockheed Martin and everyday I am using my human services to finance the American military's dominance in the world.
Protests allways go unheard when an F-16 is dropping JDAMS.
Hmmm... Which Escalade do you have? Because you might have to return it. Some of your precious "American-made" GM gas guzzling SUVs are made in Mexico! Not to mention the multitudes manufactured in Canada, Korea, Europe and Australia.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=factory_guide
I can afford gas no problem, even if it hits $3.50+. For some of us, it's not mileage and gas prices, it's EMISSIONS. Those things that are slowly giving us all cancer. I have a Corolla (which my 6'4" cousin fits into wonderfully) which gets so close in mileage to the Prius, but I'm still considering the upgrade because the emisssions are so much lower. I live in Oregon, not NYC and we actually have natural forests, not just an area the city put aside to keep green. Call me a hippie if you want, but I kind of like nature and would like to try to keep it green.
For much of the year, I live in an area where it starts snowing in mid-October and doesn't stop until late April. The average snowfall is 300" a year. No, these hybrids are not an option for me - I need an SUV or a truck, and I'll drive one, thank you. If you want to try pushing your Prius up the ice and snow covered hills when the gerbils under the hood freeze to death, go right ahead.
That said, I don't drive when I don't need to. This summer, I've biked everywhere; I've only been in a car a handful of times, and I have not driven. I put my groceries in a backpack and bike, and that's far more energy efficient than your damn Prius will ever be.
In case anyone's curious... I get 62.5 mpg with my 2005 (stock) Prius. It costs about $28 / two weeks to fill and I put about 42 miles on it a day. It's also roomy enough for all who have been in it (including my over 6'2" neighbors), both back and front seats.
Setting aside the argument about what countries make more money off of the dollars I spend for car and gas, I'm happy to know that I'm at least not depleting the world's resources as quickly as I would otherwise. I've got the standard security/economic issues in mind, too, but as a citizen of the world I'm more interested in leaving my kids as hospitable an environment as possible (in my own little way).
Of course, YMMV.
I'm just going to insert my two cents here:
Why are you proud of paying $2.55 a gallon for gas? I cringe every time I fill up, not because I'm some poor white trash trailer dweller but because gas has doubled in price over the past few years. What happens in another two or three years when it doubles again? The US is lucky to have "reasonably" low gas prices compared to say, the UK, but we're catching up quick.
Oh by the way, your precious Escalade is made in Mexico. You are buying cars that are assembled out of the country and the profits are going to the GM execs without a dime being given back to OUR economy.
Your logic would have been less flawed if you said you only buy Toyota. The profits might be funneled back to Japan but at least they create jobs here in THIS country.
Ass.
I'd like to point out that Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, and most foreign car companies operate some of the largest automobile factories in America. Hyundai's new Alabama plant is not only pouring money into our country, but also giving thousands of jobs to Americans. GM is constantly trying to find ways of cutting costs by going to China, Japan, and Korea, except they're doing it underhandedly. How about the Saabaru? Or the Daewoo-made Aveo?
Jonny boy, you've just been caught with your pants down. Don't get me started on your little Napoleon (do you even know who that is?) complex. And has anyone told you that Escalades are SO three years ago?
#14
A Toyota Prius is a 1.5 Liter, 76 HP car.
This is not a car designed to efficiently go faster than 60 miles per hour so The Solar Panels and battery aren't going to make a big difference. If you take a close look, the panels are angled to decrease induced and form drag.
This car is designed to produce electricity when you are braking. In that respect, while the battery might increase the force needed to pull the car, it will also increase the force needed to stop it. This may actually improve the electricity produced during braking.
Considering how ugly these cars are, I wouldn't be concerned so much by small additions to mass, I'd be more worried abut being seen in one.
I wouldn't wanna be caught dead in one of these.
Thanks Jon, now that I know what your feelings are, I feel better in supporting your lifestyle.
Please continue to raise the price of gas for me and everyone else. I made a choice to work in the Public Library System, so I could give back to the community. Unfortunately my decision to work here also means I have to drive 45mins to work. Because the libraries are underfunded, I can not "work harder" nor longer as my salary is set in stone.
I do drive a 2003 Dodge car that, at the time, was good on gas. I made a concious effort to make responsibe decisions about transportation. When the last gas hike hit in the spring, I decided to quit smoking so I could save some money. However with this gas hike, I don't have the luxury of quitting such habbits, unless you consider food a habbit.
There is a real issue here, and I am afraid that you are not getting it, Jon.
No disrespect to you, or your beliefs, but the level of energy consumption is out of control. Unless people in privlage (like you) start understanding what is at stake, everyone is going to lose.
If you can't see that, you are going to start losing more than just a few dollars at the pump.
Actually, in one respect, I am grateful for folks like Jonathan N. I am already tired of hearing people complain about high gas prices, and I fear that those complaints have only just begun. It is as if when the people bought their SUVs, low gas prices were somehow their right by divine fiat. Say what you will, Jonathan takes responsibility for his choices. And I suspect that if gas prices finally outstrip his ability to pay them, we won't hear him whining.
Just my two cents.
CritSafetyBoy, libertarian educated southern white Anglo-Saxon Christian
Wether Jonathan the Republican is being frighteningly sincere or just trying to satirize American selfishness, this is a pretty nifty idea. It seems like combining a few technoliges like solar power and electric cars with a hybrid would overcome the serious limitations of each, while adding some significant increased mileage.
The typical hybrid's mpg hardly seems to justify their price when compared to a Volkswagen turbodesil or something similar - but if someone were to sell a hybrid that would allow me to plug it in at night to completely charge its batteries, had solar panels on the roof to assist in recharging the batteries while I was driving, and would switch over to a gas engine whenever the batteries were dead, I would be all over that business.
There must be something I'm missing, but I've been wondering for the past few years why no-one's manufactureing a hybrid that can be plugged in.
#24 I know Escalades are made in Mexico. I posted that in my post before you did. We pay them a couple pesos and they turn out a $50,000 vehicle.
the point is not where a product is made, the point is that America gets the taxes from that company and an American car salesman has a job.
Stop trying to be so smart cause' your not good at it.
#28... I don't know what kind of car you've got and I don't care.
Esclades are 3 years ago, but the 2007 model is what Im waiting to trade in for.
It has a Drexel Meyer interior (designers of Maybach), 20 MPG with GM VVT technology, more luxurious interior leather and traffic Navigation radio with GPS.
I thought you guys were moderating the comments here. Why is this section full of Jonathan N's crap?
I appreciate the thought that went into constructing this mechanism.
I too constructed an array to sit on top of my car to run an air conditioner during the day.
It worked. The car could be kept cool while the other cars are extremely hot.
But, please think of this as a hobby. Currently, solar technology is too expensive to
use, with practically no energy gain.
The far better solution would have been to
place within the vehicle a battery capable of
storing the charge of the solar panels (That would be much lighter than the solar array). Then, moving that charge to those batteries.
The resoning is you really don't want to drive around with solar panels. It changes the way you park (Park facing south). It changes the way you drive (Drive in sunlight rather than shade). Design this ultimate solar experience
for your solar array at home in a standard place and port the energy around. You would
really be surprised at how small the battery is to handle the charger this array can deliver.
#31
thats a decent comment and I respect your beliefs. The thing about it is America is a class society and those with power allways make decisions that improve life for the upper class and inadvertently make things harder on some of the lower class.
I do understand your point of view. That is why I am all for development of energy efficient vehicles and fuel cell technology.
the only problem I have is buying vehicles that are not safe for use on roads with larger vehicles like SUVs and giving my money to contries developing weapons to use against my country.
America needs to get its energy reforms together so I don't have to give a dime to Asia.
>>#1 American companies outsource jobs (i.e. Mexico, China, India, etc)
You forgot to mention those same countries have complete disregard for intellectual property and promptly "knock off" what we have them make, turn around and set up business and sell them back to us for even less money since they have to overhead when it comes to R&D. We in turn buy those items because they are cheaper than the stuff we outsource. Case and point Haier and BenQ among others. Aren't those cheap Chinese made cars supposed to show up on our shores soon?
How does that help the US of A again?
Idiot.
Incidentally, your Escalade performs worse in a collision than a Toyota Prius. Or at least the NHTSA thinks so.
#36
I am against allowing Chinese made cars into America simply because I know the Chinese:
#1 Aren't going to buy american cars,
#2 CAN't AFFORD American cars and
#3 are making nuclear weapons with the income they get to use against the US.
I lived in ShangHai China for two years when I was at Fu Dan University. China has a few companies with SUVS and cars such as MEI TIAN and GAO XING motors.
both these vehicles were heavily steel and cheap plastic and looked just like Japanese cars since China doesn't respect intellectual property rights. I ended up leasing a chinese GAO XING SUV and I hated it - though it did beat a bicycle or walking.
What you've gotta understand about China is that the average citizen makes less than $7000 a year there (since the Ren Min Bi is only 8% of the US dollar). Most of the people there will NEVER own a car. The majority of cars their are owned by Taxi companies and the super rich which account for less than 5% of China as a whole. The vast majority of China's citizens are riding bokes. And YES, I have seen a Chinese mother "drive" her child to school on the back of a bicycle.
Its not their society we are helping by buying their products, it is their belligerent psychotic PRC military (which has allready threatened to nuke California).
http://www.gertzfile.com/gertzfile/
Chinese manufacturers will take the front of a lexus and the back of a BMW and call it their own design. *&%*$* THIEVES !
The only things I want to see made in China are the cheapest pieces of plastic and metal. If we have to outsource a few manufacuring jobs to china so a couple kids get payed 10 YUAN a day (80 cents) to make a $500 leather jacket, SO BE IT !
#38 Is sitting on top of a lot of rage.
Perhaps if he hadn't lost his job to India, he'd be able to afford more than a Dodge Neon.
wow Jonathan N u're such a post-whoring troll.
At least u have a first to your credit: first african-american redneck. You have really shitty attitude man...
PS - everyone and their mother knows that 9 out 10 american cars suck balls. DOn't kid yourlsef, u're not keeping the economy afloat, you're just perpetuating a lot of hatred. I've read other posts of yours and the common theme is always hatred.. Why? Do us all a favor, don't breed.
Editors: It sucks that you have to sometimes police the trolls, but can you please clean up these comments? Thanks.
Well John ideally that is how it should work but it doesnt. At least not anymore
The company out sources jobs to another country to offer cheaper products to Americans. Either to compete with foreign competition or domestic that has lower labor cost. Once that happens it forces other domestic competitors into the same outsourcing chain. At this point the Americans are receiving cheaper products from all companies. So to compete those companies now start to outsource other back end services like research and development. If you dont believe that look up the R&D plants that CISCO, KODAK and MICROSOFT are opening in foreign countries.
Your topic about the government makes more money by taxing those companies is false also. The US government has free trade agreements with Mexico and Canada NAFTA and now CAFTA for Central America
1. The US doesnt make any money from those imports directly.
2. The state economys suffer from the loss of taxable wages
3. The Federal government loses money from taxable wages
Your point is that the government makes more off of taxes it places on the companys for profits gained. That may hold some value but you also have to keep in mind we give tax relief to a lot of the companys that send our jobs offshore also.
Its a nasty cycle it really is think of it like this
1. The company out sources jobs to compete with competition so the company moves jobs overseas to compete
2. The employees are now laid off and cant afford as much so they look for lower priced foreign made products (therefore shooting themselves in the foot in the long run)
3. So now moves in a new employer that can hire you for less so you take it because thats all you have. Until that job gets outsourced and you keep on moving down the pay scale.
With companys exporting us jobs now including Research and development the only things you dont really have to worry about are low level service jobs like Wal-Mart and high level jobs like doctors and lawyers
bottom line outsourcing is destroying the american way of life buy american.
I don't give a rats arse if your Escalade has a "Drexel Meyer" interior. The Suzuki Forenza was designed by Pininfarina and that doesn't make it a Ferrari. Before you spout off any technical wonders of your GM engine, you may want to check out http://www.pistonslap.com . You may not have any Escalade left to trade in!
And don't try to say VVT is some big GM advancement, the cheapest Hyundais have had it for ages. I'm quite proud to own a BMW that was built right here in the United States because not only do I get the quality of BMW but I get the quality of an American-made product, and the knowledge that not only did my purchase employ an American BMW dealer and mechanic, but it also employed an American factory worker who built my car with pride.
I bet you don't pay attention to what's actually going on outside of your Escalade so I'll fill you in. We have a lot of jobless Americans. GM is not helping anyone by moving production out of the country. Thank god for the foreign companies who do want to invest in this amazing country of ours. Clearly we need to rely on them since we can't count on our own to do it.
Best wishes to you and your Escalade. I hope you suffer painfully from lung cancer until your early death.
Alright, everyone needs to give it a rest. There are several needed changes to our way of life and the way we use energy. First, get rid of the SUVs, they suck anyway. Second, start forcing the car manufacturers to listen to the little guy. I have several ideas I would love to implement, but I can't tell any of them for fear of theft of intellectual property.
And by the way Jonathan...the highest tax paying companies in the US from the automobile based industries are the foreign competitors. Stick that in your craw...
#42
CHECK THIS OUT:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594030863/102-1849358-5660139?v=glance
Jonathan N,
Okay, so you're against Chinese-made cars in the US, but apparently outsourcing to the Chinese is okay... (so how is that different from buying a Chinese-made car exactly?)
American corporations make up only 13% of our tax base. This is because of all the tax loopholes and tax breaks they are given. The vast, vast majority of the tax burden of running this country is on the backs of the American worker, so I don't think your outsourcing model is going to work without some tax reform.
#42, -----I've read other posts of yours and the common theme is always hatred.. Why?------
I work for a company that develops military weaponry for America to destroy/occupy/liberate/etc other countries.
If you think my attitude needs adjustment than maybe I should quit my job at Lockheed Martin and join the Kmart team?
#43, That is a very good argument you posted.
I also believe Education jobs, engineering jobs, military weapons development (where I am at Lockheed Martin) and a number of other service jobs should be added to that list.
I do disagree with you a little about destroying the American way of life.
In my opinion, if Americans give up certain low-end jobs it will force them to either elevate themselves to a higher standard of education and work OR they will be left behind and forced to scrounge for employment wherever they can find it.
Sadly enough, this is excatly how communist China's education systemworks which leads me to believe their are overcontrolling oligarchial socialists in high levels of american government.
The other social implications of low-end job loss are drastic changes to family planning and extra generational ducational oppurtunities...
If you had a shitty job, you are more likely to be harder on your child to get a better job in the future and warn them to strive hard to stay away from certain types of low-end work.
If american technology companies can get their products designed, and developed for a lower price in some 3rd world country, it stands to reason that they will be able to use their profits to rapidly improve their products faster.
If you plug in your Prius, you are using energy that was generated in a power plant. Improving gas mileage by increasing the draw on an already-overloaded coal-burning power plant seems like a really bad tradeoff.
Most American cars are now being built using Japanese steel. We may be assembling the cars but they have already stolen the steel industry.
Solar cells on the car roof? Why not just convert the Prius to a plug-in hybrid (WIRED just published an article about a guy who did this), and mount a solar array on the garage, connected to a storage battery bank. Whatever power the batteries don't need to recharge, you feed back into the power grid. So you use less gas, AND maybe get a refund check from the power company. Then you could plug the Prius into that when you park, slightly de-uglifying the car. Of course, you're going to spend almost $6000 to do that, but folks like Jonathon N can afford that, right?
Jon, you missed responding to post #37 - the one about how most, if not all, especially your SUV - does worse in crash tests than the Prius.
-m.
Uh...yeah. Rich...poor...middle class...yeah...
As far as I know, we all breath the same air regardless of socio-economic standing. The cost of fuel inefficient vehicles doesn't end at the pump. It continues to and through health care costs as the gradually worsening air continues to damage peoples health (not to mention the planets').
There again, the monied have an advantage in that they can afford more/better health care, but I honestly don't think you can really put a price on simply feeling 'good'.
True, even hybrid vehicles aren't CLEAN per se, they still produce all the same polutants that their strict ICE bretheren do, but every little bit helps.
On the subject of hybrids in general 'Jon Konrath' makes a good point, one that I've mused about occasionally. While they put less pollutants in the air, I have to wonder if it's worth the extra stuff that goes to the landfill. I don't know the full specs, but I can only hope the batteries are fairly easy to dispose of (not to mention produce) in a safe responsible manner or we're not really making much headway. Like MTBE, sure it kept the air cleaner, but it resultingly polluted the ground water that much faster. Pyric victory at it's finest.
A few questions though to 'Jonathan N'
"It is because of people like me:
buying GM and FORD cars, instead of running out buying the latest piece of Japanese/ Chinese shrapnel that keeps America's economy afloat."
Since when do the Chinese import cars to the US ? And if you are implying that japanese cars have chinese PARTS in them, well, I suppose they do have some (plastic panels and such I would guess). But truth to be told most american cars have more. And not just chinese parts. I think the American auto industry outsources for parts and labor far more than any other auto producing country. Except that most other contries simply build cars in the countries they plan to sell them in, whereas the US automakers have cars built 'overseas' and then brought back here. Is THAT good for our economy ? It certainly isn't good for our labor force. And that includes the boys/girls in R&D, because the american auto industry buys/licenses a fair amount of technology from the japanese. And if THEY are basically shopping the import section, why shouldn't the rest of us ? As one example among scores, I remember seeing in the early 90's the Plymouth Laser was nothing more than a Mitsubishi Eclipse in disguise. It literally had nothing more than a STICKER to cover the word 'Eclipse' EMBOSSED in the bumper. You could feel the embossing through the sticker. If THAT's buying american, why not save the mark up and just buy the foreign cars openly ?
And as for 'keeping the American economy afloat', you probably should speak a little kinder of the Japanese, since they too are concerned with the American economy. Enough so that Toyota (soon to be the worlds largest automaker) is considering RAISING it's prices here in the US in a bid to get more people to actually buy american cars. They are actually going to HELP their competition.
If American cars are so great, why is this necessary ?
I think far more people buy AMERICAN based on politics than they would buy Japanese/foreign based on politics. So I'm guessing it might come down to quality.
I don't know, maybe it makes sense to the "THE UPPER CLASSES" to purchase a vehicle that makes the statement they want even if it's more expensive, less reliable, less efficient, and a hazard to everyone around them. As stated before, if you've got the cash, that is your right.
But for mere motals like us peons who make up the majority of the country, I think most prefer cars that are LESS expensive, MORE efficient, MORE reliable, and in general safer for those inside and outside, with higher resale values (since, you know, us poor folks tend to trade our used cars around some...partially because we often buy imports and even, oh...a whopping 8+ years later they are actually still running reliably...).
Politics aside, I think if American car companies produced more cars with more of these attributes, they'd see their sales increase dramatically.
But of course this is all just my opinion...try not to take too much offense y'all...
Jonathon, you sure do run your mouth alot for someone who can't even spell. If you are going to try and make these horribly relative and 'informative' posts on the internet, why don't you pop out a dictionary and make sure you are actually writing words first. Damn.
Clearly you lucked out in the life plan. Whatever you do to get paid SO MUCH to have an Escalade, which in my eyes are relatively cheap junkie cars that get turned into ghetto blasters, must not have very high testing requirements.
Jonathan N please stop branding yourself as a Republican, you are giving the rest of us a bad name.
#49 PRIUS's rigged to use an electric plug require ad-hoc rechargeable batteries. Besides, they don't really require very much power. Probably less than a refridgerator uses in an hour.
Hey look everyone.. I'm Jonathan... I post a couple hundred times trying to get ppl to give me any attention. Love me, hate me I don't care. I just want someone to acknowledge me! I can whine about anything all day long and be a super duper ass cuz that's what I do best.
--- and so do 3 year old spoiled brats. Grow up or live on an island.
#49 - you can (and I do) get your energy for your home from green sources - wind, solar, etc. Call up your power company and see if it's available in your area.
-m
#37
Crash Tests don't test the most important aspects of collission. AAA and the NTSB have been brought under scrutiny in the media because the tests they perform don't tell the whole story. They are really concerned with roll over and front impacts.
Can a Toyota Prius's driver survive a rear impact by a Ford Expedition or a Lincoln Navigator at 40 Mph?
NO
The entire car would be overridden and the driver decapitated.
Can a Toyota Prius withstand a side impact from an escalade at 40 mph?
HAHAHAH NO !
Can an Escalade EXT survive getting rear ended or side impacted by a Toyota Prius travelling at 40 MPH ?
MOST LIKELY !
Can a Toyota Prius get you hot chicks?
LOL... NO !
Can you BANG a hot chick in the backseat of a Toyota Prius?
LOL...NO
There we have it.
Toyota Prius 0, Cadillac Escalade 5
The only thing a Prius is good for are POOR PEOPLE who need to get back and forth to their jobs at Walmart without being seen by people driving BETTER CARS !
Jonathan N the Republican,
I disagree with some of your opinions, but I appreciate that you have kept your language on a relatively civil level, unlike many of your detractors. I also appreciate your directness, it is a trait that is too often laking these days.
A word of caution, only those who are conservative with their money stay wealthy.
Lol...
Got a 2004 Prius - love it. Would never, ever buy a domestic car, which have poor reliability, poor styling, and poor fuel economy. Nothing like shooting for the lowest common denominator.
Drive whatever you want, I don't care in the least, but at least I won't be waiting in line behind you at the gas pump :P
#53
I registered as a Republican due to my views on big business, American military policy, gun laws and views on public assistance.
I don't give any body else a bad name. The Republican party is seen as a bunch of idiots and warmongers ( that part is true) due to the Iraq War and their "right to life" policies.
I just hate to think that America put George Bush back in office simply because he was pro-life; considering how many White Christian Males lives he has wasted in Iraq and how he has allowed America to become a safe haven for illegal immigrants.
If I was in office, I'd plant so many robotic sentry's on America's boarders that an illegal would be terrified to cross the boarder.
I would destroy the Iranian nuclear reactor at Bushehr TONIGHT (around 8:30 PM) and
I'd also be tough as nails on China.
I'd also launch a strategic aerial assault on North Korea's nuclear reactors.
We wouldn't have to worry about them launching a counter attack because they'd all be dying of radiation poisoning.
Prius for poor people... man what are you smoking?
Please disregard my previous comment (#31). It is clear that you are not thinking, and are only interested in trolling.
You will likely never get it, and all the money in the world won't make you a decent person.
Consume yourself to your own demise, my sad little neighbor.
Oink Oink
#58
Thank you kindly for your comments.
Anyone can by a car but nobody can buy class.
Johnathan pretty much meets the textbook definition of a psychopath: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=define:+psychopath
Check it out people, and understand this personaity type well, for it is estimated that, among other things, something like a minimum of 50% of violent crme is committed by 10% of the population - specifically, the psychopath.
Usually people like him don't reveal their true nature but, in this case, he's using the Internet as a shield.
Holy crap, what a bunch of macho, bird-chesting going on around here. Take it outside guys, would you?
The cool thing about the Prius is the amount of people "hot rodding" them now. Hopefully Toyota and other manufacturers will encourage these type of modifications, like the motorcycle industry does, and learn from them.
#61
"POOR" doesn't have to be a derogatory term. It just means that the people being reffered to don't fit into the middle and upper class income brackets.
they use that term in the Census to refer to people making below the FEDERAL INCOME POVERTY LINE ($15,600)
Forgive me if I sounded combative.
If you think the Prius is ugly, well it's a matter of taste. Just don't buy one. I have an '04 Prius and I actually love how it looks. I also like that I produce less emissions than most of the other vehicles on the road (cause despite W, global warming (or as he calls it, "climate change," is real). If technology is interesting to you, the Prius has some really cool features (keyless driving, electronic shifter, bluetooth capability, etc) and it appeals to a gadget person like me. This post is just another interesting tech enhancement to the Prius, although it probably would fail a cost/benefit analysis. What if the car manufacturers designed this as an integral part of the roof so it didn't detract from the aerodynamics? It's a cool idea, anyway.
I am rich enough to actually afford buying (rather than leasing!) a more expensive car but I chose the Prius. The problem with J the Repub is that while it is nice he has moved up into the world, he feels the need to flaunt what he's got. I say that means he's trying too hard to prove he is somebody. If you really are somebody you don't have to worry so much about impressing everyone.
BTW - The people who say they won't fit in a Prius probably have never sat in one so how do they know? Maybe if they are NBA players perhaps there is a problem, but we have some very tall friends who fit in just fine.
#64
Actually I think I fit the definition of a SOCIOPATH.
A Psychopath is a sociopath that takes out their aggression VIOLENTLY.
of course, after you work for a company that produces weapons for long enough, you start experiencing feelings of apathy for those on the hollow end of your howitzer.
Whatever Johnathan, the two are all but synonymous. To make a distinction is to split hairs.
Oh, and get over any delusions you may have about your environment having created you. The preponderance of evidence overwhelmingly indicates that you were born, NOT made.
People like you tend to gravitate towards the sorts of jobs/situations you describe. I hate to point-out the obvious, man, but you are about the closest to a true monster that exists. What's ironic is that it's not your fault; however, that doesn't the fact that people like you are dangerous and a threat that must be come to terms with.
Personally, I favor mandatory gene therpy as soon as it's available. In the interim, indefinte incarceration is called for.
366 I don't believe a company like toyota would produce integrated Solar Panels into the roof of a car simply because their would be too much chance of damage by vandalism and because their would be a huge problem getting them covered by insurance companies.
some people throw bricks at cars just to watch the airbags pop out.
I live in NYC. I don't consider buying a $50,000 car flaunting anything. If i wanted to flaunt, I would have bought a Bently Continental GT, or a Maybach which i could have afforded. that to me would be ridiculous.
I bought an EXT because it has a great design, lovely interior design and the cargo bay was the perfect size for installing a sound system and carrying things back and forth to work.
Do i wish that it got more than 15 MPG?
Of course I do!
But I was not going to pass up on the car simply cause it got a shade under the Gas Mileage of a foriegn car.
Your Right.
Ugly is a matter of taste. If you don't like something, DON'T BUY IT. But you have no right to tell anyone else what they can't buy especially if they work to own it.
#50, I hear this argument alot, and I do realize that no electricity is free, but even the worst coal spewing power plant is a more efficiant power producer than a gasoline engine, and it's an especially good thing if you live someplace with good hydropower, like, say, the pacific northwest.
#71
What we really need is FUSION BATTERIES that derive electric power from the fusion of Hydrogen or Helium.
Problem is, some psychotic middle eastern loser would figure out a way to turn the cell into a nuclear weapon.
The best other possibility would be ALCOHOL such as Methanol or Ethanol which is easy to make anywhere and simply exhausts water.
Problem is the government couldn't tax it since it can be made domestically (and thus wouldn't make them available).
When they figure out a way to produce cars that run on water, WE ARE SAVED...but have you ever asked yourself what will happen to all those Oil rich Arab Countries as a result of our independance from their ONLY important resource?
They will get poorer and poorer and poorer and their anti western, anti-American hatred will grow and grow which will cause even more of them to stuff their jackets with SEMTEX and run into American Walmarts with a death wish.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
*breaks out of the flame war*
nice mod Steve L, though i would have liked it on another car. Still... glad its possible ;-)
/continue flame war
JtR
The word you should have used it there, not their. (#70) Kindly learn to use English.
And I believe you were looking for fission(#73).
I feel bad for the Engadget server since it lacks a banal filter to automatically stop this trolling.
uh people back to the point. the solar panel was somewhat clever in increasing efficiency.... utilizing our largest source of energy .. the sun.
I would add that arguing between gasoline engines and coal-burning power plants is using the fallacy of the false alternative. There are other options. Nuclear, for one.
#75: No, hydrogen fusions, uranium fissions.
Oh yeah, I HAD lanned to make an on-topic comment initially...:
10%? Impressive! *sarcasm* Honestly, IF he did it for a genuine savings, someone should introduce him to the concept of diminishing returns. Otherwise, it's a cool hack. =) Now, if he can manage to cut-out the gas entrely (or relegate it to an option), I'd be emailing him for the specs and diagrams.
#75
Listen buddy, if you wanna go behind me and clean up every homophone I write wrong, be my guest.
And NO, I MEANT FUSION BATTERIES.
FUSION BATTERIES wouldn't leave behind the radioactive decay that fission batteries would. The problem would be being able to contain the heat radiated in an electomagnetic field that would still be small and efficient enough to fit in the back of a car...unless we develop a fusion battery that wouldn't release tremendous amounts of heat.
I work for a Weapon contractor. I know what I'm talking about.
#78
Nuclear Energy provides very efficient electric gains however, they also cause very inneficient wastes.
We currently use tomohawk fission reactors which leave behind neutron irradiated wastes that take thousands of years to cool down.
What we need are TOKAMAK FUSION REACTORS that would allow us to produce energy from Hydrogen Fusion that does not leave behind so much dirty radiation and waste.
"Ugly is a matter of taste. If you don't like something, DON'T BUY IT. But you have no right to tell anyone else what they can't buy especially if they work to own it."
Exactly. I like my Prius. Thanks for giving me permission to buy it. I never said you could not buy your SUV - and enjoy it as well ... , but it seems like you aren't very tolerant of other people's choices.
"The only thing a Prius is good for are POOR PEOPLE who need to get back and forth to their jobs at Walmart without being seen by people driving BETTER CARS !"
Just as I realize that not all SUV owners are terrible people, you must realize that there can be very few "poor" Prius owners. If you are earning a clerk's salary at Walmart you can probably only afford an Aveo or something similar (not that there is anything wrong with that...).
Actually most Prius owners I know are rather well-off (upper middle class and above), but they choose the Prius because it fits in with their belief system. Your vehicle fits in with your belief system and desires.
-Calling 15 mpg a shade under what you can get with a foreign car is just a bit of an understatement. (With my Prius I avg 50 mpg; it's that low because I live in a very hilly area, otherwise I could get 55-60mpg). But you aren't complaiing at least - I will give you that. I have heard some H2 drivers complaining about gas mileage. Now those are the true idiots.
One of you geniuses who claims to be smarter than me should invent a car that runs on CRYSTAL METH. This way once you finish getting high, you can drive to work and save big money !
-to produce more crystal meth.
Jonathan,
You are aware, I trust, of the temperatures necessary for fusion to take place. I cannot see how that makes portable units possible.
As for the Tokamak, I would love to see it. However, a working power-generating version of it always seems to be forty years away. In addition, it is not free of nuclear waste. Neutron activation of the steel and concrete surrounding the reactor creates one crapload (highly technical term) of screamingly hot nuclear waste.
#85
The large flux of high-energy neutrons in a reactor will make the structural materials radioactive. The radioactive inventory at shut-down may be comparable to that of a fission reactor, but there are important differences. The half-life of the radioisotopes produced by fusion tend to be less than those from fission, so that the inventory decreases more rapidly. Furthermore, there are fewer different species, and they tend to be non-volatile and biologically less active. As opposed to nuclear fission, where there is hardly any possibility to influence the spectrum of fission products, the problems can be further reduced by careful choice of the materials used. "Low activation" materials like vanadium, for example, would become much less radioactive than stainless steel. Such materials would have half-lives of tens of years, rather than the thousands of years for radioactive waste produced from fission.
This would involve the design of new alloys with unusual chemical compositions -- a complex process as the chemical composition also affects the materials' mechanical properties.
fortunately though for all of you anti War activists, Fusion Reactors would need to be EXTENSIVELY retooled to create nuclear weapon PLUTONIUM and it wouldn't be easy to do that secretly. No country could get away with that...except America.
I work for a US auto supplier. We are just trimming fat when it comes to closing plants. We sell parts to 80% of the worlds car makers including the chinese. We have guys at our plants who have 40 plus years. Retire. There are more 40 and 50 somethings working at the plants then people under the age of 30. This is a way for us to stream line product when these old furts retire. We do not have that many people under the age of 30 to continue making high volume parts. We are always looking for younger US workers. The problem is once all the baby boomers retire, there is not enough people to support the vacant jobs.
DAMN! Johnny and everyone else please calm down. I for one don't vote democrat or republican and no I'm not a member of the green party.I am an independent I like to make my own independent and informed descions. I hate the idea of a political party or someone elses paltform telling me how to feel or vote on certain issues. Please forgive me. Yes I know this is a technology and gadget web blog and not some political website. Also most people need cars after college and many are deep in debt due to college loans and other forms of debt. Cheaper cars are nice. Also we need manufaturing jobs and we need the "working class" (our economy is very dependent on the working class they pay taxes too)and guess what they need cars too. There are also many college students like myself in the U.S who dont have high paying jobs(I work at a call center) and Johnny, what about the teachers.All of these people have a right to complain about gas prices especially since there are ways for the goverment to help. They can ecourage increased production of oil and help build new refineries and they are still a few places left to drill. They can also encourage the development of fuel cells and alternative fuels. Oh and I hope trolls dont become to common on engadget. I like engadget to be a happy place.
As my expertise is on the fission side of the scale, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, Jonathan, that you know exactly what you are talking about. And I have long believed that fusion is the long-term solution. However, given the choices that we have today, I believe that fission power plants are the way to go. Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
#89
Just keep in mind CritSafetyBoy, fission power plants are perfect Nuclear Weapons producers and even worse, they are perfect targets for terrorists.
A fusion reactor can't produce weapons grade plutonium and they would be constructed so hard that it would take a precision guided munition to destroy one - not some Arab with Semtex in his toyota Prius planning a suicide bombing.
Countries like Iran claim they need Fission reactors for PEACEFUL PURPOSES - i.e. energy production...despite the fact they have vast oil and coal reserves. Its obvious they want to build nukes and then buy technology from China to produce ballistic missiles - TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS STOLEN FROM US BTW.
I believe our long term solution, in the next 100 years is FUSION but our best choice would be to figure out a way to develop ANTIMATTER power or subatomic particle energy.
antimatter is probably too dangerous though since a kilogram of it could potentially destroy the Earth so I supposse we'd be better off researching fusion.
ugh! the majority of the comments that I cared to read were all boasting their SUV car's and how the next model will get a whopping 20MPG.
This single comments section has made me realize, why people from every other country in the world hate americans.
One word.... wastefull!
-certainly _not_ proud to be an american.
Presumeably he hasn't been banned yet for the freakshow effect?
Jonathan stop being an ass you insult the whole race of human beings and im sure most products in your crap ass home is made in China. Just because your gay doesnt mean we want to be gay with you comments from a 16 year old who can't drive...your escalade sucks no matter what you put in it there are a lot of hybrid alternatives and I'm 6'8 and i can fit in my uncles prius so why don't you get a life and try working as a lower class citizen, like most people in your country or better yet try working like the mexicans who built your car, the world doesnt need your snotty behaviour and your gay views at looking at the worlds annihalated economy that dicks like you ruin because you don't know your stuff
Escalade? Ewww.
It does make a good looking funeral wagon, but that's about it.
What about the "zero emissions" AIR CAR? http://www.theaircar.com/ I mean yeah its UGLY as sin, but we're saving the environment... I often wonder why these cars have to look so ugly, to be cost efficient? I drive an acura because I like the way it looks, why can't they make a shell for my RSX to be put over this UGLY CAR so I'll have the look, sans emissions.... I think I just came up with a new company, anyone want to help me with the startup cash? =)
Video of the car via The Science Channel : http://science.discovery.com/fansites/discoveriesthisweek/videogallery/videogallery.html
scroll over to the car next to the dinosaur.
thoroughly entertaining to say the least ..
lol
John, you done such a good job of creatively satyrizing the selfish attitude of right-wing upperclass snobs that so many people think you are serious about who you are. You're portrayal is dead-on about these parasites of our society.
Jonathan is a troll no matter where he posts. Check out some of the DS vs PSP threads to see what I mean.
I think there should be a "do not troll" list sort of like the do not call list, all posts by known trolls should be banished to oblivion.
Hey Jonathan the Republican,
Do you realize that you are supporting terrorists by using more gas. Don't you realize where oil comes from? The largest supplier of oil in the world is Saudi Arabia. The pilots of 9/11 were Saudis. The mastermind of the 9/11 is a Saudi.
Wahhabi fundamentalism which dictates that all non-muslims must die comes from Saudi Arabia (the reason Saudi Arabia was never bombed by Bush is that he and the Saudi prince are business partners - read The House of Bush and House of Sauds).
Unless you know that your gas comes from the oil-sands of Alberta, you are indirectly supporting terrorists. Where do you think the wahhabi fundamentalists get the funding to preach thoughout the world.
As we so often do here on Engadget, let's take an instructive look at ancient Greece. You've got Athens there, major regional power, effectively unfightable. You can't go into the field against the Athenians and expect to win.
So if you want to jerk around their foreign policy, make them do what you want, what do you do? Get 20 friends together and go burn the corn ships. Perhaps calling them corn tankers would be more illustrative. In any case, hopefully the Athenians will stand around laughing at the guy growing corn inside the city walls because his methods are sort of hacky and he's got no view past that C-pillar in the back and you could never pull a trailer with that thing. "These colors don't run! I am going to go flush corn down the damn outhouse hole! A! T! H! (ens) A! T! H! (ens)"
Anyway, metaphor switch, same point. I think current hybrid cars are ugly and have poor interior seating. I think the same thing about the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. However, I can respect that both represent state of the art mechanical tools available to further the ends of our collective self-governing entity here, in our ongoing attempt to ensure the mutual long-term safety and happiness of ourselves and future generations. I imagine you end up having to have both around, and people willing to drive and manufacture each. I just think we've found there's a lot of unintended consequences associated with overuse of the dual-turboshaft-engined green one, and we should take a look at switching our policies to try out the aqua dual powertrain one a bit more, it'll probably make fewer people angry and we could even let the gays drive 'em.
I'd love, even prefer, an American hybrid. But instead of going out and engineering one, the big 5 mewl and sulk and kick the dirt that it's so *impossible* and Ohhhh No Ohhhhh the Japanese are doing it, We could NEVER do what the Japanese engineers are doing, they're so scary with their meticulous slide rule work, effing get over yourselves and make me one, it's like a forklift plus a Civic, you can't get someone to AutoCAD this together for me? In like a weekend maybe? Do you remember we built the Hoover Dam and the Saturn V and an effing ukelele made out of individual selenium atoms or whatever? GM, I AM SURE THERE IS SOMEONE YOU CAN CALL WHO COULD DO THIS FOR YOU. Because the day I can get a decent American hybrid sedan, I totally promise I will buy it and put a solar panel on it and an American flag and a Bushmaster cannon and a picture of Calvin peeing on the Saudi royal family IF YOU WOULD ALL STOP WHINING ABOUT IT BEING UNAMERICAN OR IMPOSSIBLE AND JUST DO IT DAMNIT I HAVE MONEY SAVED UP AND EVERYTHING JESUS.
#102
You're so ignorant.
cConsidering the fact that Bush invaded Iraq unilateraly and now it is a respit for breeding terrorism, BY THAT PHILOSOPHY, simply by paying my taxes I'm funding terrorism.
I work for Lockheed Martin. We develop weapons TO KILL PEOPLE. For every terrorist a dollar of oil buys, LOKHEED MARTIN makes a bomb to kill a group of them.