Samsung planning dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-ray disc player

We've already resigned ourselves to a long and pointless format war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray over which next-gen optical disc gets to succeed the DVD, but at least one heavyweight says they're going to increase the peace and introduce a universal player that can handle both formats. Samsung's been mainly in the Blu-ray camp — they already introduced a Blu-ray recorder late last year (the BD-R1000) — but the head of the company's consumer electronics division threw down the other day, declaring that Samsung would, "welcome a unified standard, but if this doesn't come, which looks likely, we'll bring a unified solution to market." Doesn't sound like it'll be easy to pull off, but a universal player would definitely be good for consumers since they wouldn't have to worry about whether they'll actually be able to watch the high-def movies they're buying. It'd also put manufacturers who are firmly committed to one format or the other in a tight spot: why would you buy a Toshiba HD-DVD player or a Sony Blu-ray player when you could just get a Samsung combo player that can play both?

[Pacey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Well it looks like one of the major players might, just might, be looking out for consumers. Ok, their hedging their bets so the format wars wont effect them, but in the long run, I would rather pay a little (ok, a lot) more for a player that handles both formats than try and pick a winner and end up loosing again (I don't need another piece of hardware next to my BetaMax player and my MiniDisk recorder).

Big up's to Samsung if they can pull this off.

[Theron @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

lol, note that both betamax and minidisc were sony's babies
pattern anyone?

If i was buying, id buy the dule machine, even if it costs the same as both put together

[hkid @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

This format war is dumb.
Blu Ray is better. Higher quality DVDs and more room for storage.
100 GBs on a quad layer disc.

If computers can have DVD Ram +/- and DL burners in one drive then why was this ever a question?
The real question is when will laptops have BR/HD DVD players built in?
I guess my next comp wont be Toshiba or Sony...

Quick bring on the holographic disks...

[TIMMAH! @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Great, another dual format system to confuse the consumer!

[boe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

#4- If a player that handles both formats confuses the consumer, it is time to add some more chlorine to the gene pool and remove a few more mouth breathers.

[Shapyi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Well Sony may have dropped the ball on betamax and such but I think PlayStation 3 will effect this format war more than people think. My first DVD Player was PlayStation 2 and that got me into buying DVDs. Before that I didn't really care about DVDs. If PlayStation 3 manages to get into people's homes then more blu-ray movies will get into people's homes.

But I'm glad Samsung is making a player that supports both formats, but I'm sure it will be expensive.

[paralipsis @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

#3 - The battle is not soley based on which is better, but also on cost. HD-DVDs are only slightly more expesive than DVDs to manufacture, while Blu Ray disks are a fair bit more expensive to produce.

I'm prepared to pay extra for a technically superior product, so I'm all for Blu Ray too, but in the end, that may not be the deciding factor.

And just like I would pay extra for a Blu Ray disk, I would also pay extra for a dual format player. Congrats to Samsung.

[Aegis @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Gosh, this is going to end up like the stupid DVD +/-RW format wars. Inconclusive and plain stupid.

The whole point of Blu-ray to a large degree was to avoid paying the 6C liceening fees that are primarily controlled by Toshiba/Warner/NEC and carry over from DVD to HD-DVD.

They get 4% of selling price off of every DVD drive(and soon HD-DVD) made, with a minimum pay of $4. The $4 minimum really adds up when DVD-ROMs/DVD players can be had for $40-50 these days. In fact, 6C patent holders make more money from hardware then the actual manufacters.

Having a dual format player means that you have to pay both the Blu-ray consurtium and HD-DVD consortium for royality fees, on top of the 6C makers. Blu-ray avoids the 6C patents, the reason why a unified format compromise couldn't be met was because the HD-DVD faction wanted to keep the 6C patents in place.

Dual format drives will seriously raise the price of the HD capable player. It might be painful at first for Samsung and the consumer, but its better to pick format and stick with it.

[OddManOut @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Ahhhhhh.....

Vindicated yet again.

"If computers can have DVD Ram +/- and DL burners in one drive then why was this ever a question?"

Well that's the logic I applied and *I* was told that those are just standards FORKS, whereas BR and HDDVD use different lasers so an analogy between the two is useless. I think most people thought it would cost more than any sane person would pay.

Which I didn't agree with. If people will pay $400 for an iPod, and $500 - $1000 for a next gen gaming console, they'll pony up to have the 'Cadillac' of the next gen optical storage devices too...

So I will ask with genuine curiousity if anyone can remind me why so many were saying a dual format player was such an 'impossibility' ? Why multi-laser systems would just NEVER happen ? Because in so far as either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD actually coming to market themselves it seems that dual format players are comming too.

What changed ?

[dweebe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Thank frickin' goodness: this format war is so stupid.

I was hoping that a dual-format machine would be built, but was afraid the two camps wouldn't allow it.

Like paralipsis said: way to go Samsung.

[E2 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

That's pretty funny.

If there's a universal player, then it doesn't matter what format the studios support. But it sure spells trouble for Sony. In the long run, do you want cheaper media/end releases or more expensive media/end releases? HD-DVD may have life after all.

[Matt @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Seriously, it really does come down to cost above all else, because as long as both disks have enough capacity to hold a 1080i (or 1080p if we're looking ahead) movie, which one are you going to buy? The difference won't show on your television, so why would you buy the more expensive one? For that reason, blu-ray is at a disadvantage. I think the PS3 actually will play a part in keeping blu-ray alive, but they are at a major disadvantage if they are going to cost any significant bit more than HD-DVDs. Think about your average consumer... they see the cool "HD" and the familiar "DVD" right in the title of that "HD-DVD" and it's cheaper than this crazy "blu-ray" thing they see on the next shelf... which one are they going to go for? The fact that the blu-ray disk has more capacity isn't going to show on the box, and many people wouldn't understand why it would matter anyway.

Whether I am right or wrong, the fact is that it is very likely there will only end up being one format, and because of that, this seems like a bit of a waste, because while the early adopters may pick up a unified player to hedge their bets, the majority of people will, again, buy a cheaper player (one that supports one format), and eventually they will only be able to buy one type of player in order to play either their HD-DVDs or their blu-ray disks, depending on which one wins.

[ty @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

This doesn't really matter to Sony...they have the majority of the studios on their side .. which means more royalties from BD releases. And, when it comes to buying media, which are you going to buy?.. HDDVD DL at 30 gb or BD DL at 50 gb per blank. If you're a studio wanting to squeeze extra content into a release, whats the cost of stamping 2 HDDVDs vs. stamping 1 BD.

[Nobuyuki Idei @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

"lol, note that both betamax and minidisc were sony's babies"
What's your point? What other technology was it that minidisc, in your mind, lost to?
In case you don't know, minidisc has been an enormous success, for more than a decade, outside the US, and continues to be with the 1GB discs.
So your comment is somewhat ignorant, but that's understandable.

[G. Snyder @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

#13

Sounds like you are basing your position on the article you reference. Too bad the author does not have a strong case. The only numbers he has are estimations on Sony PS3 sales - whoopty doo. I do not know a single person that uses their PS2 as theur *Primary* DVD player, and I am not sure that the PS3 will change that. The next case he makes is that Disney backs BR ... and then he discounts it (foolishly I think - since, contrary to what he says, many of Disney's films are awesome for high definition. Incredibles anyone?) Anyway, nobody knows at this point until more people take sides. This guy's guess is as good as my aunt's.

I think the best comparison is with the whole SACD/DVD-Audio fiasco. Nobody wins on that one. You know what I would do, though, if I was in the market for a multi-channel music player? I would buy a universal. Given that, Sony's ENTIRE lineup of DVD players can be taken out of contention due to their stuborness over SACD (no Sony player supports DVD-Audio). The same thing will happen with next generation optical.

[Chris1 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

I honestly don't know who will win, but here are my two cents. Assuming Toshiba puts the HD DVD players out soon they will be at an advantage. When sony puts out the Blu-Ray players Toshiba will drop the price on theirs making the players more appealing to the consumer. People care about how much they spend and unlike most of us, they wont understand much about what they are buying. All they will know is that it better than what they have. Granted some people won't care and pay whatever price, most will not.
I was also thinking about how much the PS3 will affect Blu-Ray sales and it seems like it might not do much IMO. When the PS2 came out, DVD was already the established format and so people purchased the PS2 because it was conveniant. I know thats why my parents purchased one. I think the PS3 is gonna be above 500 easy because of all its packing. If it costs them 100+ to put in a Blu-Ray player and then they have to worry about the cell technology and how much that will cost, which I don't exactly know, add the boomerang controller that you can through at someone when you're playing when they piss you off and then comes backs to you, and along with the profit they need. This piece of hardware is gonna be costly and people are gonna think twice about buying it. The Ps2 was about 200 when my parents bought it and they were thinking about just buying a regular DVD player at that point. PS3 helping Blu-Ray, only slightly. Because I assume people don't know any better I would say HD-DVD will win. Of course, Blu-Ray is the better candidate.

[c-freddy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Cheaper will win as it did with betamax, minidisc, CD's, and dvd's.
Why did PS1, PS2, and walkman make sony? they used the standard. Why did/does minidisc, beta, memory stick(all 4 kinds), UMD suck? propritary!
Sony may never learn.
The PS3 will probably be the cheapest BR player you can buy, but it wont record. so you will probably want to buy another device anyway.
If the HD player come out at under $200 with $10 disc's(HD uses the same stamping machines as DVD's) they will win.
DVD's got very popular when they got to the $150 price and all movies were under $15. Some people got a PS2 because it seemed like a good deal for a player at the time, but it sucked. No remote, can't turn the unit on and off, and it refused to play many copied disc's. I know many people with a PS2 and not one uses it as a DVD player. If HD can keep a $200 price difference it will win regardless of the studio's initial backing. Sony is the only company behind BR 100% all the other studio's have non-exclusive agreements and will switch to who ever sells the most players.

[Nojopar @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

"If people will pay $400 for an iPod, and $500 - $1000 for a next gen gaming console, they'll pony up to have the 'Cadillac' of the next gen optical storage devices too..."

The key is capabilities. What does HD-DVD or Blu-Ray buy you? Other than a prettier picture, not a damn thing in the consumer electronics realm. The iPod and the next-gen gaming consoles get you a lot more functionality for your money. HDTV is far from mainstream not matter what the electronics companies want you to think. Furthermore, there are whole catalogs of studio's that won't benefit one whit from HD. Citizen Kane won't look any better on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray than it does now on DVD. In fact, very few films made prior to 1990 will look any better.

Optical discs are dead technology. The future is digital distribution for most people. The success of iPods and the like clearly shows that people are more than willing to trade fidelity for convience. Which is better in most people's mind, a HD disc or just clicking on a movie title on the screen? Naturally that's highly dependent upon things like rights management, price and ownership and whatnot, but I think people would rather just see the film than see every blimish of every actor on the screen.

[James @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Didn't any of you read on Engadget that the Blu-ray players that will come out will be needed to connect to a phone line so they can monitor what you watch, check for proper DRM, and see if you're tampering with the player with illegal hacks?

Who the hell wants the movie studios or manufacturers monitoring what you do in your own home anyways?

[Martez @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Just because Blu-Ray is better doesn't mean it will win. Betamax was better than VHS. Don't even get me started on Laserdisc.

I support the idea of a dual-format player, but I won't buy one. I plan on getting a PS3 (a Warhawk sequel, people- WARHAWK!), so I'll probably just pick up a HD-DVD player instead of spending more money on a dual player when I've already got something that plays Blu-Ray. How much the PS3 helps the Blu-Ray format depends on how well the PS3 does.

[Permanent4 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

#18: Never underestimate the value of a prettier picture. The HDTV market is small, but it will grow as prices come down and sports fans see how fantastic HD is for baseball and football. All those who buy an HDTV will want to use it to its full potential. They will find value in an HD movie player working in conjunction with a distributor like Netflix.

And digital distribution of long-form video still has a LONG way to go, and it will be longer with HD. A H.264 movie in 720p is still about 5GB. Compare downloading 5GB over bittorrent with overnight (or even 2-day) shipping from Netflix. Seriously, which do you think is faster and more convenient right now? When we all have 50-Mbit pipes, digital distribution might be faster, but we're a long way from that yet.

[Pacey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Honestly, the people who are probably going to finally end this particular format war is the porn industry. Not based on size of disk, printing price, or anything. Porn is bigger than any of the studios out there (including disney, take THAT), and whoever they end up backing will probaby win. Why? Because prepubescent and old ass males alike will drop tons and tons of cash to see their favorite starlet in all her 1080p glory.

[hkid @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

How feasibile is it that Blu Ray and Vista will phone home?
I dont like that idea but it seems a little much.

Is this what media has come to?

[G. Snyder @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

what is a blimish?

[Twist @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

And here I figured that Apex or one of those similar companies would be the first ones to do this. I don't what format "wins". Blu-ray sounds better but if players can handle CD, DVD, HD-DVD, BR-DVD then the disc format is meaningless to me as a consumer.

[MrFloppy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

HD-DVD= Only 1080i.
That's pretty lame. They will need HD-DVD 2 in a few years.

[yo @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

I think sony having Disney on their side is a bigger deal than a lot of people think.

Who makes the kid's movies everyone buys? Disney. And who makes the most in DVD sales? Disney. A study was done on what movies make the most money - G rated ones, and they only make up about 5 percent of what is in theatres, yet make about 10 times the cash.

Disney says the secret is the DVD sales after the movie is released. Cause the youngsters want all those "repackages" ex: Lion King, Lion King Special 2 disc edition... - see where this is going...

[Take2 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

There's too many unknowns at this stage of the game.

Sure sales of the PS3 will help drive the Blu-ray effort. But the price of the PS3 is not yet set. It could be incredibly expensive (PSX anyone?). Plus factor in that Sony never really had competition before. They may not sell as many consoles as they have in the past.

Even after HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players hit the market in mass, how many movies will be available? Probably not that many.

Are consumers going to embrace the new format quickly? There needs to be a compelling reason. Okay, so you have better resolution, and being able to store more on a disc. So is that going to improve my viewing of 'Top Gun' Yeah, probably not. Do I want to plunk down more money to buy yet another version of that movie? Yeah, I'm leaning towards not on your life.

You have to factor in Netflix. Whichever format Netflix rents will have a huge impact.

How many people have High Definitions TVs? Sure it's starting to take off, but the majority of America does not have one... yet.

Plus Sony hasn't really being doing all that great lately outside of games. If I'm not mistaken Panasonic is outselling them on the HD TV front. If the PS3 is not as successful as Sony believes, Sony could be in for some hard times ahead.

[nemi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:19AM]

Well there are several ways they coudl implement this

1) some kind of dual laser optical pickup that can cope withthe very different layer depths and light wavelengths. - not impossible, but very complex, especially since the OEM manufactures are probably only working with a drive+optics of one format or the other, samsung would have to fund the R+D.

2) A unit with two drives in it, ie. two trays to eject and choose from (very confusing for users to try both until the disc they bought works, but for unit returns and customer returns)

3) a unit with two drives/optics but an "inverse" disc changer - i.e. accepts one disc and moves it internally betweent he two drive heads/units.

???