Xbox 360: The most hack-proof console ever?
By Peter Rojas 
posted September 11th 2005 3:14PM
posted September 11th 2005 3:14PM
Going out of your way to boast about how hack-proof your next product is going to be is probably the only surefire way to get an army of hackers on your ass, but Xbox engineer Chris Satchell declared in an interview with BBC News that the Xbox 360 is going to have levels of security, "that the hacker community has never seen before." He does concede that "sooner or later someone will work out how to circumvent security," but he also says that even if someone does crack the Xbox 360 that it "doesn't mean that it will work on somebody else's machine" because of the way it's been designed. Fair enough, but do you really want to inspire someone out there to prove you wrong?
this will be fun modding it
for poster number #57.. and 58.. and 59.. :)
you make a valid point in your agreeance with poster #21. Aaar, it's enough to shiver me timbers.. and yet, being that i am what i yam, i have to also point out that while hack/mod and anti-hack/mod/pirate is a war indeed, it's not one that will ever see a resolution.. look at Hong Kong, Arguably bootleg capital of the world. Sure'in if i be gray, that for years corporations have had to suffer having their products cheaply produced, or knock-off imitations making their way into their profits to cut a nasty red line, but there isnt any real way of stopping them. The music industry has tried EVERYTHING (except producing better artists :) ) to stop the copy and distribution of their product.. but from Cassette tape to Mp3 p2p sharing, it's been a constant battle, and for every step forward they take, every hard fought victory they earn, a new group of challengers arises and forces them back a step.
microsoft may indeed find a way to keep you from modding your xbox,but at what cost? they are already taking a loss on the unit in it's retail price, as most consoles do, and plan to make it back on game/media sales.. the problem is, what if you dont HAVE games that will make up the cost of the unit? The Xbox bg1 (i have dubbed it thus as BG1 stands for Bill gates 1 :)) was an abysmal sinkhole in microsoft's pocketbook. and it was because they couldnt produce the games to back it up.. sure, ye had yer Halo and yer fable but beyond that you had a pitiful handful of must own titles at best and it's the main argument for the sony fan-boys as to why their system is superior.. and why the BG1 lost in this generations console wars..
the problem with what yer suggestion is that microsoft would have to spend far more resources on KEEPING the system 'un-hacked/modded' than they would suffer in losses if they just left it alone. i think a more attainable goal is to force any modding to be left to the hardcore modders who know what they are doing, and make it so that it's RISKY for the novice to get into. If you can make it more difficult for those who have little to no 'modding' ability and have to rely on faq's or other people's programs or the ever-present forum in order to read clear cut instructions on how to perform 'said' hack, then you negate a great deal of your modding issues right there. i believe THAT is the direction they are going when they state that each unit wont respond the same way as when someone hacks it. so if I *ahem* hack my box, i can write faq's till i'm bluer in the face than blackbeard's ghost, and it will seldom work on anyone else's unit, they've accomplished their goal.
the key to Microsoft's victory is not to keep ME from modding my x-box.. one lousy old barnacle isnt going to sink their mighty flagship; it's keeping ME from SHARING my hack with the rest of the world, and therefore they dont find themselves sunk by a swarm of barnacles and pulled under.
personally i believe the unit will have individualized specific settings for every piece of hardware onboard, and in order for the entire unit to work, ALL parts must work.. therefore if my hack succeeds on one specific function, it will cause the rest to shut down. and since my systems 'settings' as it were would be independent to each particular object within MY purchased unit, it would make it increasingly hard for any shared hacks to assist me or for me to assist anyone else.
either way, i'm readying my cannons. there's gonna be a high time on the old seas this winter. trim the main-sails lads, and batten down the hatches..
we's goin ta war...
Test
They boasted the titanic was unsinkable
From what I have read here maybe 2 of you even know how to hack the first xbox, or maybe a few more might know what makes hacking the xbox so much harder than hacking windows, it comes down to the hardware level. With windows it all goes on the same 20+ year old x86 processor like everthing else(not like the xbox doesnt), but with the xbox they did a clever trick with a pseudo fake bios and hid this inital memory initalization in a separate place from flash bios so that it took a little more work to find it. ive seen that there is a detachable harddrive so that means all of their security is straight on the mobo on the hardware level. ms is also using a triple processor system (whoa more than 2 processor support now) this means that in itsself will make the hardware a bit more involved than on most systems which will alone scare off most people, i just wish i had that mofo apart in front of me so i could get into more detail about what would need to be done
If it doesn't use Trusted Computing hardware/software, I'll eat my hat. It could well be that MS are using hackers' arrogance against them, testing the waters with the 360 before they start rolling out Vista and TC proper.
I laughed at the EMP idea. I suddenely saw a wave of elecrtic blue energy blowing everything in the room over as soon as the case was opened...
My guess is that they will learn from the psp, and
use regular firmware-updates(service packs).
Hm. I if turns out to be modable/hackable this is a great PR stunt, but lets say it is so secure as the claim ... who would want it? Granma? Raise your hand, who would want an Xbox that was unmodable? Not me.
HOWTO Hack the Xbox360. Step 1. Don't buy one.
They've claimed satellite TV devices and signal encryption would be unhackable too.. Time and time again people have had success. This time around Dish Network's new technology is apparently hacked before they even moved all their customers to it. If that's the case, then that's a very bleak day for that company.
However, it really puts things in perspective. If you have a team of tens, maybe a hundred people developing a technology, rest assured that several thousand are poking at it day and night. Quite a difference between several thousand passionate people worldwide poking at it versus a select group that developed the technology as a job.
Some are passionate about their job, but generally not most. They're certainly not as passionate as the people trying to break the technology.
I thought it was in their interest of having people hacking it. Sure, they want to sell games but a product is only as desirable as the buzz that surrounds it.
Amazes me that people think that microsoft cant hack your hack. You make a chip they can also get your hardware and find away around it. They didnt give a shit about xbox but they have got big plans for online play with the 360.
You can hack it yeah but will you be able to use it online for long. Doubt it. ANd if your naive enough to think that microsoft cant hack you you need to get a reality check. XBox360 to microsoft is a whole new ball game and you most of the people on this forum have a xbox1 mentality.
It's neato to bring your friends over, crack open a few bottles of bawls, and show off linux on your mom's tv.
I can show off Linus on a TV by hooking it up to a real computer.
But seriously folks, I think the arguments that it has to be hackable to sell if just plain stupid. Will it sell more units, yea, sure, because a hacked console doesn't need real games. However, the hacking community is a small community. Hackability won't dictate sales.
I'm sure the 360 will be the "most hack-proof console ever", because it has far more advanced technology than any console out right now. BUT, as stated in the article, M$ knows the 360 will be hacked. Their biggest concern is that they don't want easily purchased mod chips/systems populating the community in large masses. When they say, "But the way we have done the design doesn't mean that it will work on somebody else's machine." it would seem they have something going on that would make modding the 360 a case-by-case basis. Time will tell.
IMO, I don't think M$ would ever resort to doing firmware updates over Live unless there is a major security threat. Preventing modders doesn't qualify as a security threat. I don't think M$ really cares about the hackers (at least they don't now), since they currently know every time a hacked xbox signs on to Live and they do nothing. As long as you don't cheat, they don't care.
The 360s OS is a mutation of Vista, so I do think that M$ will be watching to see if any software breaks occur. But, it would seem hardware would be the more likely spot as with the Xbox.
So true hey kids come and get your mommy and daddy to buy you a console cause u can hack it. And if you cant you can bring it back so microsoft doesnt make money. They dont make any money on the console and they dont sell games because everyone gets a chip and the gaming companies sell one copy then watch as its distributed through bittorrent.
I love forums like this. I dont mean to be rude but some of you guys have to realise that your only a small majority. Most of you guys must be intelligent or just like to talk shit. But if thats the case then your a techie and have no idea about how business works. Thats why microsoft can make billions off this and you are stuck in your basement freaking out trying to stop a company from making money actually thinking your one step ahead.
For all of you that say "they will just release a patch.." I have 2 gen 3 xboxs one hacked, one non hacked for that very reason. See, you allow MS to patch your pseudo-virgin xbox and then you take the hdd out, cause you already know is unlock code, and then do a diff to see what they changed. It doesnt matter what MS does it will be hacked it only a matter of time. The CPU has to boot from code somewhere. I agian, plan on buying 2 xboxes one to play with and one to preform surgery on. And as far as online play goes, we will just make our own 360 online play network.
Google Nazi: Why would you buy two xbox's if you weren't satisfied? Surely you experiemented enough with one to tell you didn't like it before you bought the other, no?
Whats wrong with the xbox1 controller? You don't like the xbox controller as is?
Then as Arnie would say: "Da. Eef your girly hands cannot handle deh controlluh size, den vy don't you get deh girly japanese controlluh. Eef not, zen get out of heyuh!"
ericd:So they will do this for a gaming system and NOT Vista? WTF...
expect more on voista than XP but vista cannot be super secure becasue it doesnt only play windows games, although it iwll still be fun to crack. i expect an approach liek that of the Adobe Photoshop CS2 crack (thanks Paradox) you input a given registration number and you get the verification number, or vice versa i foget. anywho, if each Xbox varies, there will be a systematic way to crack it.
#75
Nagra 2 has been hacked in europe.
And by the way, stop saying "M$", that phrase died with Windows ME.
Hmm, looks like you guys have been waiting for me. Okay, here it is: I don't mod. Yeah, well, I'm just a casual gamer, I play games maybe 2-8 hours a week, depending on the week and the game, but seriously, that is about all.
Whether or not the Xbox 360 is hackable bears no relevance to me. Subsequently, I am in the majority, not the loud "haxxors r0x!" minority. Feel free to try and hack the 360, I'll look for it online to see when it happens- but really, not important to the casual gamer. We play our games, eat doritos, golpe our drinks, and socialize with our buddies. We don't care about hacking until you're on XBL and exploiting your hack to compensate for your gaming skills. Other than that, I doubt the 360 sales will see an impact because hackers get frustrated with the supposed individual coding for each console. Nevertheless, good luck and stay off XBL, please.
I agree with Google Nazi back in post 67. Nice monty python comment, btw. The $399 for a console that may as well be a PC is not worth it. The revelution or PS3 will be better bets.
The Xbox 360 may show promise so I won't condemn it yet, but by last 'boxes standards the console will be hacked in little or no time.
The controller is ok, though I personally prefer a keyboard (some of those extra accesory controllers are kind of bulky and annoying, grr).
I got an idea for MS, we know they can dedect mod-chips so the moment the system dedtect it goes off-line untill u remove or whateva.
I am a comment spammer: redshoeboy@gmail.com
Will Xbox360 be hackable? Sure will. Will the average Joe be able to do it? Probably not.
That's what I gather from the article. They say that you may have to hack one one way and a different one in a totally different fashion, right? If they can ensure that it is, in fact, that way, what will happen is that the only people with hacked xbox360s will be hard-core techies with a lot of experience. With the xbox1, after 1 person hacked it, you just had to go buy a mod chip and stick it in.
I think that this is a very good idea (from MS's standpoint). Think about it... Xbox1... 99% of people could hack it (pop open case, insert mod chip, etc.) or have a friend do it. If they could limit that to 1% on the xbox360, then there will not be as many games available for download, because there won't be nearly as many people out there ripping the games.
Here's an analogy... Say you like a band, and there are only 200 other people in the world that like that band. Good luck finding the album for download, right? The average joe wouldn't be able to find it. If only 1% of people have hacked xboxes, then that's a lot less people that have the motivation to rip the games.
Sure, there may be a few people on the undergrounds of the internets that'll be into xbox360 hacking, but not nearly as many as xbox..
Sorry that this post was so jumbled, I'm typing as I think... Just my 2 cents here.
Hmm.
Is this just another marketing ploy to get hackers etc. to buy an XBox 360? You would think Microsoft has a little more common sense than to openly challenge the entire hacking/cracking community like that.
Hmm ill go with microsoft. Its called the paradigm effect. Hackers had it easy with the xbox. You think microsoft dont have the money to make it harder. You fools just think you are on top now and will regain full control with the 360. Ill be sitting on the fence but i really hope microsoft stick it to you.
I bet it will be hacked even before it hits the market. Just like some movies are avaliabel for download before they are in thearers. I belive it will be hacked. Man made it man can crack it.
Microsft will be in for a shock when it is hacked within 24 hours.
i agree with number 21, they do wan't you to hack it, no doubt about it. The XBOX was easilly hackable because 95% of its architecture is based upon standard pc architecture. If the XBOX360 goes the same way, it will be easilly hackable to. Even with all the XBOXs Linux protection a simple game save exploit can bypass the lot, its not just about the console, its about the game.
Xbox 360 press conference is tonight starting at 11 PM (Central time) from the Tokyo game show. Find your own links.
all i have to say is that i agree with tons of stuff here, and some are just irrational. heres what i have to say.
xbox 360 will be hacked.
xbox 360 may required chip soldered.
xbox 360 for sure wont be executable explotied, but you never know.
xbox 360 .......im not fully convinced, but if they get it hacked and get emulators for dremcast, since the system will have enough power, then ill buy it, if not ill wait for ps3 and its awsome killzone 2 game.
I'm no hacker, but would it be possible to put os on a encoded game so each game would have it's own system, and a simple dashboard? for example I'm not sure,but say the hardware bios where set only to check the cd drive and isn't there a step by step hardware check that runs before an os is displayed checking usb ports cd drive ect. if the game disc acted as a boot disc and the only device it was set to check was the dvd player for a bootable disk wouldn't you need to break a software code on the disk before any thing could be done to the console for moding? other wise i would have to agree with post 50, 62, 66 and the one that said all hardware might have to work together to run. I'm just learning about bios, os, and how exploits work. So if this is just stupid i'm sorry.
I was in the military and thier radio's use a set of alternating encrytion could this be what they mean?
Just one question. WHY does Microsoft want it cracked? So that they don't make any royalties off of the games that wouldn't be sold if everybody had hacked boxes. Nah. That's pretty f'n stupid to say or think. They would prefer no pirating to pirating, that's just common sense.
microsfot loose out on loads of profit from the actually console, but they make it back by the games, the xbox 360 games will cost 60 each (dnt no in dollars), so MS doesn't wnt it to be hacked really
Obviously since writing you must have been realised that the 2.00 firmware for the PSP has been sort of hacked with the 1.50 Downgrade from 2.00. I'm playing homebrew quite nicely thank you very much after downgrading from 2.00.
The 360 will be hacked as we all know. If these people were not so gready trying to stop people creating and using Homebrew stuff and wanting to use imported software,and movies etc etc than the hackers would not need to hack!
It's all about GREED!
If these people were not so gready trying to stop people creating and using Homebrew stuff and wanting to use imported software,and movies etc etc than the hackers would not need to hack!
That is the biggest load of bs ive ever heard. You want homebrew there plenty of ways to do it you dont need a console.
Importing games isnt a problem with the psp and the reason the xbox didnt work in japan was because the games they were importing were shit for the japanese market.
You can make any excuse you want but the truth is its fun to muck around with shit and see what you can do. And while doing it burn some shit for free. If there were no region codes it wouldnt stop you from trying to scam free games.
These greedy people also make the people who decide to invest in them alot of money. If you had an idea that could make you a millionaire and someone stole it wouldnt u be pissed. How much money was microsoft out of pocket on the last xbox millions sorry billions and there greedy for wanting to protect their investment.
I dont see a major problem with modding etc to a certian extent but people that think their hard done by because someone making money just gives me the shits. And why do you want to import so badly dont like supporting the guy down the road getting paid bugger all to talk shit with you about whats coing out then seeing you leave week to week cause you want to download it for free. Ever though about the thousands of jobs that would be created if you actually bought the game.
Why dont you have a closer look at how much microsoft has made on this console before you talk about greedy not gready u greedy prick.
Lol! Why dont you have a closer look at how much microsoft has made on this console before you talk about greedy not gready u greedy prick. You TOSSER!
You don't really know what you are talking about! I like to import Films/Games(and pay for them!!!!) because I don't see why we should be treated as second class citizens in the UK and wait a further 6 months for them to come out here!!!! And I buy games all the time you DICKHEAD!!. I was talikng about homebrew that are made and distributed for free!!!!
I caould go on for ages taliking about what a lot of CRAP you said, but you are not worth my time. You must of missunderstood me or you are a PRICK.
Mate i work in the gaming industry and its a well known fact microsoft have lost money on the xbox. Get ur facts straight mate before u make comments on how much microsoft is making.
They are protecting an investment. Its pretty easy if u want to complain buy the xbox from that region you want particular games from. Or get a chip. But dont bitch about a company that wants to make it harder for you. . Dont bitch about not being able to do shit with a system microsoft didnt even design that way.
Its not greedy considering a company in Australia is paying millions to have the rights to certain products and then you import it from overseas. If your not patient enough to wait and dont understand the reasons why you have to wait considering market conditions then u definatly dont have the right to come on here and talk bs.
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8369
Software giant Microsoft has announced its financial results for the first quarter of 2005, revealing that while the company overall saw solid profit growth, the Xbox division slipped back into the red with a $164 million operating loss.
Hes the latest news. And Xbox is doing better now then it ever was. Get ur facts straight.
You think being in the UK is bad. Microsoft is going to ship to regions that will buy the most consoles. The Xbox360 is already sold out in most places unless you want the core edition.
Australia is the next region to get Xbox 360. What will this mean for us. Even the UK this will mean that stock is going to be limited. They will service there biggest markets first.
O in case u think i know nothing about the 360 being sold out have a look at this.
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/deptpage.asp?web_dept=Xbox+360
http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=9078&cb=0.6349865
Hackers will probably go through USB ports with hardware or the removable HD with software if necessary.
Just think...Game Shark and Action Replay software and devices pave the way. In the unlikely event that hackers can't figure it out, these devices will help them out.
well full raw dumps of games for xbox 360 are cropping up, but no way to play them yet. emphasis on yet. lol
"You can't run these dumps yet, but you will be able to sooner
or later :)
In the mean time you can use our open source extractor tool to
check the Contents on your pc
Why do we release full raw dumps, one sentence "Remember
Gamecube?" until we know for sure what will be needed to run
these things we will be releasing the full raw dumps to you,
also a full raw dump is more likely to assist any hackers out
there...
So the first task is done. We hope this encourages all hackers,
coders and crackers out there to take up the challenge.
Enjoy!
Pi Putting the 360' Spin on the Xbox :-)"
bull s**T any one can hack this. it's like opening a bag of chips no lie. any Qs email me unitedwesurf1227@yahoo.com or aim madmax1227@aim.com
is there an echo in here ?