Blu-ray vs HD DVD: State of the Division
Here's the background:
Philips's development of the Laserdisc in 1969 yielded many of the technologies Sony carried over and adopted when they eventually partnered with way back in '79 Philips to create a little something called the CD. Both companies were hard at work together once again in the early 1990s on a new high-density disc called the MultiMedia Compact Disc (MMCD -- original name, guys), but their format was more or less abandoned in favor of Toshiba's competing Super Density Disc (SD), which had the vast majority of backers at the time, such as Hitachi, Matsushita (Panasonic), Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Thomson, and Time Warner.
The two factions cut a deal, brokered by IBM president Lou Gerstner, on a new format: DVD. Toshiba wound up on top after the dust settled in 1995/1996, and Sony and Philips, who weren't cut in on the standard (and royalties) nearly as much as they'd have liked, immediately started work on a next gen system. The Professional Disc for DATA (aka PDD or ProDATA), which was based on an optical disc system Sony had already been developing in the side, would eventually become the Blu-ray disc. Toshiba, not to be outdone by its rivals Sony and Philips, also started work on a next gen system, the Advanced Optical Disc, which eventually evolved into the HD DVD. But after thirty-five years of optical audio/video disc development we're back where we were years ago: two money-grubbing would-be standards bearers swiping at one another, threatening to wreak havoc on the consumer electronics industry. Apparently history really does repeat itself.
So here's the technical nitty gritty before we drop the graphs n' charts on you. Both Blu-ray and HD DVD use the same kind of 405nm wavelength blue-violet laser, but their optics differ in two ways. Since the Blu-ray disc has a tighter track pitch (the single thread of data that spirals from the inside of the disc all the way out -- think: grooves on a 12-inch vinyl single vs. an Elvis Costello full-length album with 40 songs), it can hold more pits -- information -- on the same size disc as HD DVD even with a laser of the same wavelength.
The differing track pitch of the Blu-ray disc makes its pickup apertures differ, however -- 0.65 for HD DVD vs. 0.85 for Blu-ray -- thus also making the two pickups technically incompatible despite using the same type of lasers. HD DVD discs also have a different surface layer (the clear plastic layer on the surface of the data -- the part that collects all your fingerprints and scratches) from Blu-ray discs. HD DVD use a 0.6 mm-thick surface layer, the same as DVD, while Blu-ray has a much smaller 0.1mm layer, which enables the laser to focus at that 0.85 aperture.
Herein lies the issues associated with the higher cost of Blu-ray discs. This thinner surface layer is what makes the discs cost more; because Blu-ray discs do not share the same surface layer thickness of DVDs, costly production facilities must be modified or replaced in order to produce the discs. A special hard coating (Durabis) must also be applied to Blu-ray discs to ensure they're sufficiently resilient to protect the data that's a mere 0.1mm beneath the surface -- this also drives the cost up. The added benefit of keeping the data layer closer to the surface, however, is more room for extra layers, and way more potential data than HD DVD.
Still with us? No? Blu-ray discs are more expensive, but hold more data -- there, that's all.
So now that you know why Blu-ray discs cost more and why Sony / Philips and Toshiba are all harshing on one another so much, we can get to the really important stuff: the numbers and who's supporting who.
Update (2.15.2008): Obviously a lot's gone down in the past couple of years, specifically with regard to format support. Granted, both Blu and Red have gotten a vast number of bit players to join up as members of their respective consortiums, but content is where it counts, and as of early 2008 HD DVD is officially on the ropes.
| Capacity | |||
| Blu-Ray |
HD DVD |
||
| ROM single layer: ROM dual layer: RW single layer: RW dual layer: Highest test: Theoretical limit: |
23.3 / 25GB 46.6 / 50GB 23.3 / 25 / 27GB 46.6 / 50 / 54GB 100GB 200GB |
Single layer: Dual layer: - - Highest test: Theoretical limit: |
15GB 30GB - - 45GB 60GB |
| Codecs | |
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| MPEG-2 Microsoft Video Codec 1 (aka VC1, WMV HD, etc.) H.264 / MPEG-4 AVC Dolby Digital AC-3, DTS, linear PCM Optional: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD |
MPEG-2 Microsoft Video Codec 1 (aka VC1, WMV HD, etc.) H.264 / MPEG-4 AVC Dolby Digital AC-3, DTS, linear PCM, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD Optional: DTS HD |
| Security |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| Mandatory HDCP encrypted output ROM-Mark watermarking technology BD+ dynamic crypto (physical layer) Advanced Access Content System (AACS) |
Mandatory HDCP encrypted output (for HD) Volume identifier (physical layer) Advanced Access Content System (AACS) |
| Movie studio support |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| 20th Century Fox Buena Vista Home Entertainment Hollywood Pictures Lions Gate Miramax Entertainment MGM Studios New Line Cinema Sony Pictures Entertainment Touchstone Entertainment The Walt Disney Company Vivendi Universal Games Warner Bros. |
Dreamworks Paramount Pictures Universal Studios |
| Major movie rental outlets *Still awaiting final confirmation |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| Blockbuster Netflix Movie Gallery / Hollywood Video* |
Movie Gallery / Hollywood Video* |
| Nationwide retail and major online support |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| Amazon Best Buy Circuit City Costco K-Mart Target (said to be mostly Blu) Wal-Mart |
Amazon Circuit City Costco K-Mart Target |
| Format founders |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| Sony Corporation Royal Philips Electronics |
Toshiba Corporation Hitachi Corporation |
| Companies listed as Members of the Board or Managing Members |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| Apple, Inc. Dell, Inc. Hewlett Packard Company Hitachi, Ltd. LG Electronics Inc. Mitsubishi Electric Corporation Panasonic (Matsushita Electric) Pioneer Corporation Royal Philips Electronics Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. Sharp Corporation Sony Corporation Sun Microsystems TDK Corporation Thomson Twentieth Century Fox Walt Disney Pictures and Television Warner Bros. |
Memory-Tech Corporation NEC Corporation Sanyo Electric Co. Toshiba Corporation |
| Companies listed as Members, Associate Members, or Contributors (may include duplicates and/or subsidiaries) |
|
| Blu-Ray | HD DVD |
| 1K Studios, LLC Acer Incorporated Adobe Systems Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Allion Test Labs, Inc. Almedio Inc. Alpine Electronics Inc. Alticast Aplix Corporation ArcSoft, Inc. Arima Devices Corporation ashampoo GmbH & Co. KG ASV Corp. AudioDev AB Avid Development GmbH B&W Group B.H.A. Corporation BASF AG BluFocus Inc. Bose Corporation Brickbox Digital Media Broadcom Corporation Canon Inc. Cheertek Inc. China Hualu Group Co., Ltd. Cinram Manufacturing Inc. CMC Magnetics Corporation Corel Corporation Cryptography Research Inc. Custom Technology Inc. CustomFlix Labs, Inc. CyberLink Corp. D&M holdings, Inc. D-Box Technologies Inc. Daewoo Electronics Corporation Daikin Industries, Ltd. DATARIUS Technologies GmbH Daxon Technology Inc. DCA Inc. Deluxe Media Services Inc. Dolby Laboratories Inc. Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH Dreamer Co., Ltd. DTS, Inc. Eclipse Data Technologies Elpida Memory, Inc. Esmertec Expert Magnetics Corp. Falcon Technologies International FUJIFILM Corporation Fujitsu Ltd. Fujitsu Ten Ltd. Funai Electric Co., Ltd. GalleryPlayer Media Networks Gear Software General Members Gibson Guitar Corp. Global Machinery Co., Ltd. Gowell Electronic Limited Hie Electronics, Inc. Hoei Sangyo Co., Ltd Horizon Semiconductor. IMAGICA Corp. Imation Corp. Info Source Multi Media Ltd. INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd. Infomedia Inc. Intersil Corporation Iwatsu Test Instruments Kenwood Corporation Kobe Steel Co. Ltd. Konica Minolta Opto Inc. Lauda Co. Ltd. Lead Data Inc. LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP Lenovo LINTEC Corporation Lionsgate Entertainment LITE-ON IT Corporation Macrovision Corp. Magnum Semiconductor, Inc. MainConcept AG MediaTek Inc. Meridian Audio Ltd. MIT Technology Co., Ltd. Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd. Mitsui Chemicals Inc. Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd. Monster Cable Products Moser Baer India Limited MoSys Incorporated Must Technology Co., Ltd. MX Production Services NEC Electronics Corporation NEC Personal Products Ltd. Nero Netflix Inc. Newtech Infosystems Inc. NexWave Solutions NHK Technical Services, Inc. Nichia Corporation Nikkatsu Corporation NTT Electronics Corporation nVidia Corporation OC Oerlikon Balzer AG Omnibus Japan Inc. Onkyo Corporation Online Media Technologies Ltd. Ono Sokki Co., Ltd. OPT Corporation Optodisc Technology Corporation Origin Electric Co., Ltd. Osmosys SA Pico House Pixela Corporation Plannet Associates PoINT Software & Systems GmbH Pony Canyon Enterprise Primera Technology, Inc. Prodisc Technology Inc. Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd. Q-TEC, Inc. Quanta Storage Inc. Quantized Systems Realtek Semiconductors Ricoh Co., Ltd. Rimage Corporation Ritek Corporation Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd. ShibaSoku Co. Ltd. Sigma Designs Inc. Silicon Integrated Systems Corporation Singulus Technologies Sonic Solutions Sony BMG Music Entertainment ST Microelectronics Sunext Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd., Targray Technology International Inc. TEAC Corporation Teijin Chemicals Ltd. Texas Instruments, Inc. The Cannery THX Ltd. Toei Video Company Ltd. Toho Company, Ltd. Toppan Printing Co., Ltd. TOPTICA Photonics AG Trailer Park UmeDisc Ltd. Universal Music Group, Inc. Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. VideACE Inc. Visionare Corporation Yamaha Corporation Yokogawa Electric Corporation Zentek Technology Japan, Inc. ZOOtech Ltd. Zoran Corporation |
Acer Inc. ACSES Co.,Ltd. Ad Seeds Co.,Ltd Allion Test Labs, Inc. Almedio Inc. Alpine Electronics, Inc. Altech Ads Co. ArcSoft, Inc AudioDev AB B.H.A Corporation Bandai Visual Co. BEKO Elektronik Broadcom Corporation Canon Inc. CDN Corporation Clariant Japan CMC Magnetics Corporation Corel Corporation CyberLink Corp D&M Holdings Inc. Daikin Industries Daiko.co,ltd. Daxon Technology Inc. Dedicated Devices, Inc. DigiOn, Inc. Digital Site Corporation Disc Labo Corp. Dolby Labs, Japan Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH DT Japan, Inc. DTS, Inc. Ebistrade, Inc. Entertainment Network Inc. Exa International Expert Magnetics Corp. Finepack . Co.,LTD Flag,Inc. Fuji Photo Film Co. Fuji Plastic Co. Fuji Seiki Co. Fujitsu Limited. Funai Electric Co. Gear Software, Inc Gibson Musical Instruments GM Records Hamamatsu Metrix co.,ltd. Hitachi Corporation Hitachi Maxell, Ltd. Hoei Sangyo Co. IDE-AVA IMAGICA Corp. Imation Corp Info Source Multi Media Korea Ltd. Infodisc Technology Co. Intel Corporation Itri Jp Co., Ltd Justsystem Corporation Kadokawa Holdings, Inc. Kaleidescape, Inc. Kenwood Corporation Kinyosha Printing Co. Konica Minolta Opto, Inc. Lenovo Japan McRay Corporation Megan Media Holdings Bhd Microsoft Corporation Mitomo Co., Ltd Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co., Ltd. / Verbatim Mitsui Chemicals, Inc. Moser Baer India Ltd MPO INTERNATIONAL Nero AG NetBlender, Inc. NHK Technical Services, INC. Nichia Corporation Nihonvtr Inc. Nikkatsu Corporation nixbu Entertainment GmbH & Co. KG Oerlikon Japan Co., Ltd. Omnibus Japan Onken Corporation Onkyo Corporation Online Media Technologies Ltd. Origin Electric Co. Outpost FX (AB) International Paramount Home Entertainment Pegasys, Inc. Pico House Co.,Ltd Pixela Corporation Plasmon OMS Sarl Pony Canyon Inc. PonyCanyon Enterprise INC. Proboxx, Inc Prodisc Technology Inc. Protron Digital Inc. Pryaid Records Inc. Pulstec Industrial Co. Q-Tec,Inc. Query inc Ricoh Co. Ritek Corporation Sanken Media Product Co., Ltd. Shibaura Mechatronics Corporation Sonic Solutions Sonopress GmbH Sumitomo Heavy Industries. Ltd Super Vision, Inc. Taiyo Yuden Co. Teac Corporation Teijin Chemicals Ltd. Toei Video Co. Toemi Media Solutions Limited Toho Company, Limited. tokyo laboratory ltd. Toppan Printing Co. Toptica Photonics AG Toyo Recording Co. Transmix Co. Trendy Corporation U-Tech Media Corp. Ulead Systems, Inc. Universal Pictures Vap Inc. Visionare Corporation Warner Home Video Inc. |
Other interesting facts:
- The Nichi Corporation, who holds the design patents to the Blu-ray's laser system, sits as an associate member of the HD DVD Promotion Group.
- Even though Apple sits on the Blu-ray Board of Directors, its DVD Studio Pro software supports authoring HD DVD media.
- Blu-ray, unlike HD DVD, requires a hard coating on its discs because it's 0.5m closer to the surface. The polymer coating it uses, called Durabis, was developed by TDK and is supposedly extremely resilient and fingerprint resistant.
- The Java platform is mandatory on Blu-ray as it's the standard for menus/multimedia (i.e. all Blu-ray systems must support JVM).
- Microsoft, of course, did eventually side with HD DVD -- not surprising, given its number of long-standing IP cross-licensing deals with Toshiba. HD DVD systems continue to run Windows CE.
- The first consumer Blu-ray device in the US market wound up being the Samsung BD-P1000, and not the PlayStation 3 as expected.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Anuj @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Great post. This has answered quite a few questions for me and I'm sure a lot of people will find it helpful.
Cris Rose @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Blu Ray? HD DVD?
Pah!
UMD is the one media to rule them all!!!
;)
Ethan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I agree with #2. With a much better potential for capacity and assuming the 0.1mm layer is durable enough to withstand rental abuse, I think we should be supporting the Sony camp with Blu-Ray. Those more expensive production processes will probably be hammered out in the end. Not only is the "HD DVD" name somewhat inappropriate for a disc that could also hold data (instead of just high-def video), but the increase in capacity seems pretty moderate for what will be considered a completely new technology by consumers.
Back when Blu-Ray required a cartridge (before TDK came up with their coating), I bet on HD DVD, but now I say Blu-Ray is the way to go.
GTgadget @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
No matter what, take pity on the fool that scratches a Blu Ray disc.
BK @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Ryan, thanks for that thorough and informatative explanation.
I think the public at large will discover the HD media from the next-gen game console they buy, rather than after buying Hi-Def DVD player (the average consumer will be hard-pressed to differentiate a DVD player from an HD/blu-ray DVD player at their local Best Buys; such was the fate of Super-VHS). In that respect, Blu-Ray (from Sony's PS3) will seem to have the lead (Microsoft has said it will support HD DVD for XBox 360, but in a later release).
I think game console-factor is the porn-factor of yester-year (remember Beta vs. VHS) in determining a technology standard.
BK
engine ear @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Question? So if its all boiling down to High Definition, then whats exactly are we getting on a High Definition disk?, only material recorded by high def cameras or are they gonna magically make all 80's and 90's movies high def. So in summary, are we high definitely gonna get the classics on HD or not?
DaN @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Blu-Ray Rules!
gmp352 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
they both have their pros and cons, but I think Sony's DRM scheme is overkill, and they are destroying our chances to be able to do whatever we want with our own media. They have the right to stop piracy, but they shouldn't be allowed to stop me from making back-up copies of my own disks, or transfering my movies to a pmp. I'm all for HD-DVD.
brice @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
What about cost differences, if you can store twice as much on Blu-Ray as HD DVD....does that mean twice the cost? Along with that thought, will the Blu-Ray movies on the shelf be twice as expensive? I'll just throw that one out to the masses.
Jason @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Blu-ray will win for one reason - PS3. And PS3 will do better becouse it has Blu-ray.
Although I am an Xbox guy - if I can have HD movies AND a game console in one - I will do that. Even if I buy an xbox360 I will still buy the PS3 instead of a Blu-Ray player becouse of the cost factor - plus I get to play PS3 games.
Someone at Toshiba should be getting fired for not shoe hammering an HD-DVD drive into xbox 360. They should have given Microsoft the drives for free.
Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Regarding the launch of the PS3, is the CEO of Toshiba pleased (cell processor) or upset (Blu-ray)? Or is it a wash?
yoda @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I think the 200GB theoretical limit of Blu-Ray (read higher capacity) is the bigger seller. Like somebody else stated, the cost eventually will level off and both disc formats will follow the trend of dropping prices on blank media before long.
aegies @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
my question is, is there any word yet on the longevity we can expect from these drives? i haven't seen any hard data, but both from personal and anecdotal experience, dvd drives had far, far shorter effective lifespans than their precursors did in cd drives. under heavy use, many dvd players and drives can last less than a year before their performance degrades, eventually becoming unuseable, and this has been a problem that's plagued sony since the psx. is this an unavoidable issue with optical drives that use disks of this capacity, because of how much the motor has to work in the drive? or is this shoddy build quality? i want to know if i'm going to have to buy a next-gen format player every 8 months if i'm using it every day. with the expected cost of the lowest priced bluray drives (even the ps3 will release above 450), this may be even more of a problem. thoughts?
jedda @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I say neither will be win. I see the future of hd movie delivery as mostly online via TIVO or some other sort of dvr system. Once people realize that they no longer need to keep hundreds of disks as with what has happend to music and mp3s there will be no going back. THink about it. Would you rather spend your money on a networked hard drive based device or even a full fledged HTPC that can do so much more. Or would you go with that new blu-ray or hd-dvd player?
Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I think some people here aren't thinking this through entirely.
1. PS3 has no official launch date (could be 2007 even). There are no Blu-Ray players outside of Japan and won't be for some time. Toshiba has stated you'll be seeing HD-DVD ROMs in their laptop by the end of the year and stand alone players either the end of the year or the first of next.
2. The only reason Sony won't compromise is because they want blue lasers to be cheap, so they can leverage their patents on GLV.
3. There's a bit too much emphasis on which game console is using what. The majority of people who are actually buying HD sets right now don't play video games. Maybe their kids do, but they don't. I know of no one outside of a college campus using their game system as their DVD player.
Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
engine ear: "Question? So if its all boiling down to High Definition, then whats exactly are we getting on a High Definition disk?"
Any movie shot on film can be re-scanned at HD resolutions so the only thing slowing down the availability of older movies will be the studios desire to re-scan their entire back catalog. Some forward thinking studios scanned their films at HD (or higher) resolutions when they first converted their films to DVD. These companies will be first to act when rolling out HD content.
Movies shot digitally may or may not be easily HD-ified. "Star Wars Episode II" was shot at 1080P whereas "28 Days Later" was mostly shot on a Canon XL-1S which only captures 530 lines; far lower than the 720 needed for HD. Interlacing will also be an issue. Non-HD digital movies will need to be upscaled and de-interlaced and may not see much improvement.
(I hope I'm proved wrong on this, as I would love to see a 1080P version of "28 Days Later".)
Richard Baguley @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
BK(#35), 28 days later was shot on an XL1 in MiniDV format, but they did a lot of post-processing to make it look good on screen: see http://www.theasc.com/magazine/july03/sub/
Samuel Lago @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Why is the graphic made to look like an Ameriquain Duke-Em-Out. These are Jappo companies, they should be sumo illustrations
Jordan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Really both have promise but in the end dvd will be around for aleast 10 more years. just because people still have not got rid of vhs to get dvd it take a long time for peple to upgrade and this is no diff. and if hd-dvd is cheaper it will win because there will never be a movie that takes up 200gb of space that id watch. but we will see but i thin im right i work at a video store and everyday i get people who just got a dvd player. oh yea and i heard u gotta hook ur Blu-Ray up to the net to stop from burning movies what crap if thats true im with hd-dvd cause i love bootleg movies
robotplague @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
So, is it possible that within the next few years we can walk into a BestBuy and see a movie on the shelves with three different versions to pick from? DVD, HD DVD and BLU-RAY? It seems like it would never get that far, like retailers who actually have the shelf space will make up what they're going to carry and ultimarely who is going to win. Based off of what I read i'd like to see Blu-Ray come ahead but I can't help but think HD DVD to come out on top. I think a lot of consumers won't know the different and would rather get HD DVD because it has 'DVD' in the name which they're already comfortable with instead of going with a whole new format they've never heard of.
petrica @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
is there any word yet on the longevity we can expect from these drives? i haven't seen any hard data, but both from personal and anecdotal experience, dvd drives had far, far shorter effective lifespans than their precursors did in cd drives. under heavy use, many dvd players and drives can last less than a year before their performance degrades, eventually becoming unuseable, and this has been a problem that's plagued sony since the psx.
Jellodyne @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
The only reliability problem with DVD drives is that they're being made for a lot less money than CD drives ever were. Whole players are going for like $30 these days. Used to be a even a cheap CD player was $100, which is more like $150-200 with inflation.
jxj @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Screw both of them. Seriously, is everyone out there going to have to upgrade their 100 plus title DVD collections just to get the extra rez? How do you know the scan quality on the new format discs will even be worth it? I've seen so many DVDs with crap scan quality just barely above VHS. Ultimately I hope consumers buy neither because of the ricockulous DRM schemes and the fact that the format they choose may be rendered obsolete by the opposing format. I hope the Chinese come out with their own super format with zero DRM and as soon as it hits critical mass over people here will jump on board because it will be cheap and there will be lots of stuff available on it.
ignition. @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
41/ "that guy is right both are doomed, once we start getting 8MBP cable and such those standars will be dead. Just downloa it off the net just like mp3."
yeah... and where are we going to store all that porn? 200gb Blu-Ray Discs.
;]
Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I want colaboration. 'Why can't they be friends?'
I want the best of both worlds!!!!
But then...Blu-ray kicks ass cos of its capacity.
When will Toshiba learn???? Crappy notebooks in sacrifice for research money that goes no where...
HD-Blu-ray-DVD anyone?
snjames @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I couldnt give a rat's arse which format wins. Ill tell you why, All this HD-DVD/Blu-ray/Hi-Def nonsense is just the same whored sequels of films and carbon copy shows but with a "better resolution"! The gaming industry is just as bad.
You can have a plank of wood and polish it and then paint it in "nice" colours, but at the end of the day its still just a plank of wood.
I say the industry spend their time and dollar$ on the ACTUAL CONTENT.
DRM can die aswell.
GUnit @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
What format allows you to have a movie in DVD format on one side of a disc and HiDef on the other side? That would be best for the movie rental industry.
dr_manhattan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
This was a superb summary of the whole situation! The best and most informed text I've read about the whole BluRay vs HD DvD thing.
Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
In response to #36, the current cost of film to HD conversion is around $50,000 and not a long process.
Jason @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
From Post # 43 -
"Even if you had a 20mb/ps download speed on a next generation cable modem or DSL it would take you FOREVER to download a 20-40GB HD movie with 5.1 digital sound."
Ahh... no. You are incorrect. Full blown mpeg2 HD with sound runs at 19.2 Mbps. With new compression technologies, i.e. Mpeg4 this drops even more.
So with a 20Mbps (Verizon is rolling out FIOS in my neighborhood right now that and will offer 15Mbps for 44.94/month) connection and bettter compression technology you could stream the movie with no delay at all. Who said you need to download the whole file before watching the movie?
Just look at WM9. They can fit an entire HD movie on a single DVD - and it still looks pretty damn good.
I do believe that streaming media if the future - but at least for HD - it is not yet. I think there will be plenty of time for a full product cycle of next gen disks.
Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
GUnit (#64): "What format allows you to have a movie in DVD format on one side of a disc and HiDef on the other side?"
Both HD-DVD and BD-DVD camps have hybrid discs. The HD-DVD solution has one HD side and one DVD side, leaving no room for a label (much like existing dual-sided wide-screen / full-screen DVDs).
The Blu-Ray solution takes advantage of the difference in layer depths between the two formats (.1mm and .6mm) and stacks all three layers on one side. This leaves room for a label, making it obvious to the consumer how to load the disc into the player. (My very near-sighted grandmother has problems reading the tiny text around the centre hole on current dual-sided DVDs).
Press releases for the two hybrid formats:
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/press/2004/bd-dvd.html
jedda @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
By the way, h264 mpeg4 HD compression runs at 8Mbps for full blown 1080p. I am not saying that bluray or hd-dvd will totally fail. I just dont see the market for buying movies on these mediums nearly as large as the dvd market was/is.
As far as the notion that people cant tell the difference between dvd and vhs, there really isnt that much technical difference at all when viewing these two formats on a regular tv set or even when viewing a bluray/hddvd movie on that same set. When people upgrade to HD sets they will easily be very happy with how much better the dvds look and not be all that interested in upgradeing there dvd collection.
However I think that the convienence of downloading or streaming dvd-res movies and eventually hd movies will trump the idea of upgrading a dvd collection.
The future of the blu-ray/hd-dvd is in the arena of outputing your downloaded content to disks and in that sense bluray wins because of sheer capacity alone.
Casey @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I knew a guy named Blu-Ray in college.
He's dead now.
Google Nazi @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
I just like the name blu-ray and what it can do compared to hd-dvd. the price will go own in 6 months... so who cares how much it does cost? they already charge $19+ for a DVD.
Sadly my favorite company (mitsubishi) is on both sides, but that is alright as they need to be on both ends!
Obscene Llama @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
i think my brain just exploded...then again, i am a llama...
ty @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Thats the most thorough and concise summary i;ve read on the subject yet. Thanks. Now, go Blu-Ray go!
Gil @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
here's what I don't get:
"Companies listed as Members of the Board or Managing Members: Blu-Ray: Walt Disney Pictures and Television"
yet
"Studios (movie and game) listed as supporting members: HD DVD: The Walt Disney Company"
WTF?
ty @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
hmmm ... so, this is weird:
Sony helped popularise the DVD format through PS2 even though they didnt directly benefit as much as Toshiba et al...
Now with PS3 they're saying "NO WAY Toshie..not again, this time we're using our format' ...
hockeyness @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
ATI isn't a major company? hrmm.
Chris Hynes @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
What about FVD (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115533,00.asp)?
Nelson @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Great Summary! Reading bewteen the lines, in the long run, I see Blu-Ray winning in the US and Europe, and HD DVD winning in the Asian markets.
I am also 100% sure that they will eventually make a variable aperture pickup, and variable target depth laser. In the long run (not too far away), the hardware will work with both formats.
Elias @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Go Blu-Ray!
-- Elias
Jonathan Belanger @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Wow, that was the first good summary of the two technologies I've seen. I like Sony's technology better, but in a way I don't want them to come out on top, because I know they'll end up pulling a Sony and being all bitchy about it. Friggin Sony.
f_x @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Go Blue-Ray!
paralipsis @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Though I would prefer Blu-Ray, I'm gonna try and wait as long as I can before commiting to one format or the other. I expect there's going to be a point though where I see a film in the shops and go "I gotta see that in high def!"
Samtherocker @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Great Post! Answered a lot of questions about the two formats.
It's Blu-ray for me - Based on the stats and the support alone!
Blu-ray will go far...
Ken Anderson @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
One major benifit that Blue Ray has over the HD-DVD system is that Blue-Ray will come in protective cartridges, like the Minidisc.
Also, the cost difference is a moot point. The cost will drop due to economies of scale (Sony has said that the cost difference between HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will be negligible by release).
I haven't played with HD-DVD, but I have had the opportunity to use a Blue-Ray DVD RW drive. The way that it re-writes to discs is also much like Minidisc; it simply rewrites the TOC instead of making you wait through wiping the entire disc (just a whole lot faster). Sony claims that the read and write speed will increase with the next generation of drives, so it might be more like a super reliable modern Zip Disk (or Syquest if you remember those).
Ryan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
#15: Most movies, certainly ones from the 80s, were recorded on high-definition film. So they'll just go back to that film in their archives and redigitize it for the new HD discs. Or they could already have it archived somewhere at a ridiculous resolution for safekeeping, I don't know.
How did you think you get Terminator 1 and Alien and all the rest on DVD!
Shawn B @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Once again a great article by engadget. So thorough.
travis @ Dec 19th 2005 1:06AM
Will you be able to burn to either of them in the near future?