Microsoft and Intel get behind HD DVD

It was a rough week of hazing, but it looks like both Microsoft and Intel successfully rushed and are going to be accepted as full members of the HD DVD Promotion Group. We figured these guys would at least make a pretense of staying neutral in this dogfight, but in their press release Microsoft veep Blair Westlake disses on Blu-ray, saying that, "after looking at the core advantages to the PC ecosystem and how it would benefit the consumer, it is clear that HD DVD offers the highest quality, and is the most affordable and highly flexible solution available." (It doesn't hurt that Microsoft was probably going to add HD DVD to the Xbox 360 anyway to counterbalance Sony's planned inclusion of a Blu-ray drive in the PS3.) Anyway, it's not inconceivable that Microsoft and Intel won't someday also end up joining the Blu-ray Disc Association, or that Microsoft won't fully support Blu-ray in Vista, but their spokespeople aren't mincing words here, and no matter how you slice it HD DVD just got a big boost from a couple of heavyweights. Anyway, not that it bears repeating, but there's no way in hell that we aren't headed for a massive format war.

[bazald @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Anything to avoid Sony ties, eh?

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

How is much lower capacity "the highest quality"?

[peteremcc @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

its the usage of the word 'quality' instead of quantity...

[Tech^CF @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

It has so little capacity. But, no shock that M$ goes with the el-cheapo option here

[GReg @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Well the Hd-Dvd will be my next format!

[Shin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I never liked the 1mm coating.

[John Laur @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I find it very ironic that the only possible discrepency in quality between either format would have to do with their supported codecs -- which are identical. The only other quality-affecting comparison that one can make is based necessarily on bitrate which is governed by maximum capacity and maximum throughput, both of which give Blu-Ray an advantage.

Also, everyone keeps talking about this coming "format war" -- but nobody is taking the risk to release any products or content in either format yet? Both camps should have had discs and players on the market a year ago, and in retrospect if one had, they would have already "won".. It seems that now they are trying to fight a format war with mindshare for some reason and the only end result is a completely pissed off consumer with a giant TV and nothing to watch on it. Boo to both formats!

At least while we are critisizing, and while I do think Blu-Ray is a generally superior format, I think its major fault (and indeed the ONLY thing I despise about Blu-Ray) is the worthless backwards requirement of a JVM for interactivity and menus. Apparently nobody told sony that the beauty of being able to design a specification was that you could write one that is tailor made to the specific requirements that the format needs!

[paralipsis @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I just want to stick my head in a hole and pretend there are no HD formats. I really don't care who wins, I just don't want to be left holding one of the corpses of the losing side.

[Scott Johnson @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I think that there really won't be much of a format war. It's HD-DVD all the way at this point. Give up on Blu-Ray already. It is dead.

There, I said it. ;-)

[Mikey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

This settles it.

I don't need HD. I'll buy a Nintendo Rev. and let the other next gen consoles/formats sort themselves out.

[foof @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Intel is behind HD-DVD. Apple is behind Intel. Can an Apple Mac/iTunes HD-DVD support announcement be far off?

[TheGuyNextDoor @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Intel are only making this move because IBM - their mortal enemy, is partnered with Sony in developing Cell which powers the Bluray enabled PS3.

Microsoft are only making this move because of the same reason as above swapping Sony and IBM round.

This is pathetic.

They are not acting in the consumer's best interests with their childish tit-for-tat behaviour.

We the consumer, want a proper advance in technology, with no corners cut. And they need to sort it out and bring out one standard before they release it on the unsuspecting victims of this whole charade... ie. us.

[Glen @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Well, if Sony's success with Memory Sticks vs. CF and SD cards is any indication as to what happens when you are the only company using said technology, then clearly MS has picked the right format. It's unfortunate thought that history repeats itself, re: VHS vs. Beta.

[shadekh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

The blu-ray has a major disadvantage in that it is going to be expensive to manufacture vs hd-dvd. The thinner blu-ray plastic protection layer now has the tdk coating, which actually probably makes it much more durable and scratch resistant compared to hd-dvd. Of course, it adds to the cost as well.

[Anonymous-S @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

11 and 12- it doesn't really work like that. Toshiba's the perfect example. They're involved with the Cell processor in the PS3, yet at the same time they're the prime mover behind HD-DVD.

[Charlotte Web @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I believe Apple has already announced support for Blu-Ray.

Anyhow, not to worry folks. If history is any indication, the two standards will eventually merge into one. I guarantee that within 18 months, some enterprising drive manufacturer will ship a drive that incorporates BOTH HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

We went through this whole thing with the competition between DVD-R and DVD+R drives, and now they ship as a combo drive (some even support DVD-RAM). Same thing with CD-R and CD-RW; I don't think you can buy a drive today that has one but not the other. Same thing with 56k Flex modems and X2 modems.

HD DVD and Blu-Ray will eventually merge, you watch.

[xVariable @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Well, it seems the Consumer Electronics Industry (CEI) is screwed, chewed, and BBQ'd. With Intel, Microsoft/XBox 360, and Apple (don't doubt it) supporting HD DVD, it seems the CEI chose the next Betamax as their format of choice. Whoopsy.

[south @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I predict that neither format will prevail; by the time the dust has settled in this war we'll be using ultra-cheap solid state memory, or something we've never heard of yet. Shiny discs are so... 1980s.

[Bootes @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

You guys Apple announced support for Blu-Ray a long time ago.

It really doesn't matter what MS supports Blu-Ray will ultimately win, since it's just a better format and has more backing where it matters. The people that put the drives in actual electronics.

[bazald @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

#16, Charlotte Web - Dual format drives is hardly the same thing as format merging. The difference here is more pronounced that DVD+-R. The laser has to be able to focused in a fundamentally different way. Sure a dual format drive is possible. That won't mean we get the best of both formats. (Would HD-DVD contribute anything to "best of both" hybrid anyway?)

[yardman @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

What about the fact that B-ray will not make it easy for you to copy your content to the harddrive? If you guys read the whole article on CNET then you will understand MS and Intel position. HD-DVD for me.

[John Laur @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

#11:

Apple is behind Blu-Ray already; however their own products, DVD Player and DVD-Studio Pro, is already capable of playing and authoring discs which are compliant with the draft HD-DVD standard but not Blu-Ray. I have always just chalked this up to what we have heard all along -- HD-DVD is basically the same structure as a regular DVD only with HD assets and more codec choices, and as such is very easy to implement (compared to blu-ray) in existing DVD software. It could also be that Apple did not originally write DVD-Studio Pro and the HD-DVD support was already in the codebase when they aquired it.

So.. yeah Apple has strattled the fence pretty well I think.

[Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I love how everyone thinks Blu-ray is superior because it has more capacity.

One word : BD+

That's a reason not to back Blu-ray right there. No way I'm basically giving Sony the rights to deliver firmware payload to my devices whenever the hell they feel like it, especially if that device is a BD-ROM in my PC. Need more reasons? Manufacturing costs will be more initially, so I'm guessing you'll see BD's higher priced than HD-DVDs. Knowing Sony, the royalty payments on BD are higher than that of HD-DVD.

So with the exception of computer data, what good is the extra disc space? Both formats are using h264 for compression, so neither will use up its total capacity for a 2 hour movie.

I'll take the cheaper, less intrusive HD-DVD, thanks.

[sr20de @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

"...Microsoft veep Blair Westlake disses on Blu-ray, saying that, �after looking at the core advantages to the PC ecosystem and how it would benefit the consumer..."

Right. I stopped reading right there.

[raaj @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

All you HD-DVD doubters need to read this informative article on why the HD-DVD is really the most suitable next-gen disc format:

http://techzone.pcvsconsole.com/news.php?tzd=3109

Some snippets:

Microsoft and Intel cited the following consumer and industry requirements of any successful next-generation optical format for high definition, which is reflected by what HD DVD delivers today:

* Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.

* �Future-proof� compatibility: Using proven HD DVD �hybrid disc� technology, a single disc can store both high-definition and standard-definition versions of a film, allowing consumers to immediately enjoy the standard-definition movies stored on these discs on today�s DVD players, while HD movies can be replayed later on the HD DVD platform. This is an opportunity for consumers to buy discs at launch that future proof their collections � in other words, helping assure customers that the discs they buy will remain viewable in the future.

* Proven low-cost, high-volume manufacturing: HD DVD discs use essentially the same manufacturing equipment as existing DVDs, meaning that production of HD DVD can ramp up easily and with lower costs.

* Superior capacity: HD DVD-ROM discs will offer dual-layer 30GB discs at launch, compared with BD-ROM discs, which will be limited to 25GB.

* Superior interactivity: HD DVD discs will offer greater interactivity using iHD technology, allowing for enhanced content, navigation and value-added functionality for high-definition films. For example, HD DVDs can offer advanced picture-in-picture capability so that other video, such as a director�s commentary, could play on top of the movie.

* Superior format for notebook PCs: The compatibility of HD DVD with standard DVD facilitates and simplifies development of slim disc drives for integration in notebook PCs, one of the fastest-growing segments of the PC market.

[Killian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

That's a ridiculously misleading article-- single-layer HD-DVD discs are 15 GB, while single layer Blu-Ray discs are 25 GB. Blu-Ray has the advantage in terms of storage capacity, not the other way around.

[raaj @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

@ 25:

Are you blind, Killian? Or just plain stupid??

The article says HD-DVD will offer dual-layer discs at launch time, giving you 30GB capacity, where as Blu-Ray ROMs will be single-layer (25GB at launch time). Combine this with the lower projected costs of HD-DVD, why would you want to use a Blu-Ray DVD instead ??

[dac @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Here's one reason why I think HD-DVD will prevail and it has nothing to do with standards at all. The public is already familiar with the terms (acronyms) HDTV and DVD, therefore HD-DVD will mean something to them and they will buy it and feel good about themselves. Blu-ray on the other hand, sounds like it's a rejected idea from a Star Wars film, people won't buy it just for that reason.

[Sherwin Zadeh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I'm suprised no one came up with this as an explanation of why Microsoft is behind HD-DVD: Blu-Ray uses Java natively for it's menuing software. Now you may not think it's a big deal but imagine a couple of years down the line where your DVD Player will be connected to the Internet -- it's quite concievable that what we now call the "DVD Player" will become the digital entertainment hub for the living room. If Blu-Ray becomes the next standard, there will be a mass migration of applications that will be developed using Java since Blu-Ray players will natively be able to play them. Being a .NET developer myself, I know that this is something that Microsoft CANNOT allow. This is also probably why they're going to make sure the XBox comes with HD-DVD -- not because Sony is behind Blu-Ray. Bill Gates has said many times that while Microsoft competes with Sony in many businesses they also consider them as partners in others and there's no justifiable reason why the XBox can't have the save optical technology as the PSP.

[I Hate Macs @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

To those of you saying things like "Microsoft is not looking out for the best interest of the customer in this matter"... WELL FUCKING DUH! It's all about the money, honey

[Richard @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

I keep hearing about the higher cost of making Blu-Ray discs. I've never really believed it (you don't make just a few discs, you make a few hundred thousand or more... and at volume, setup cost discrepancies are insignificant). But are people really trying to say with a straight face that dual layer HD-DVDs are cheaper to make than single layer BD-ROMs? And for that matter, that dual layer BD-ROMs will be unavailable at launch?

Come on. Their costs will be the same, both to manufacturers and to consumers. Hybrid discs (with both DVD and next-generation layers) will be available in both formats. And nobody will make a significant investment in either format, leaving them to stagnate until something better like HVD comes along and sweeps them both away. This is a war that no one will win.

[mark @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Personally I'm hoping that they both fail miserably and we skip straight to the real next gen with the 200gb capacity on a single layer. Maybe we'll finally see some cheap dual layer DVDRs in the meantime.

[Rohan P. @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

Ooooooh conflict!
If Apple is behind Blu-Ray, and Intel is behind HD-DVD, then what will happen to the Apple and Intel dealies?

Mind games, people, mind games!

[Home Theater Dude @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

> I'm hoping that they both fail miserably and we skip

I'd be with ya except for the time it'd take. Nuke DRM and I'd wait a decade. Ok a year or 2. Maybe.

[3rdsun @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

#34 Rohan
I could give a rats ass about apple's and intel's deal..I hope it turns sour.

#32 Richard
i'll forgive u since u new to the post. BluRay will use new technology to create their players and discs. Refittiing plants (not house plants)means more cost. HD DVD uses exsisting processes - cost stays down.

Sony and its "mine is better than yours" policy gets me sick.I dont own any sony products and I will never try to.
HD DVD has the ingredients to relate to the average joe on de street. that is who will determmine who wins in this war.

[Samuel Lago @ Dec 19th 2005 12:20AM]

MS canstick it in their arse, Im going Blue-Ray or waiting for HVD!