Windows Vista: Behind the scenes
posted Sep 28th 2005 10:00PM
The Wall Street Journal has a great article detailing the internal drama at Microsoft surrounding their move from a
messy Windows Longhorn to their more modular
Windows Vista. Microsoft has
historically allowed its many developers to each create their own pieces of Windows, which then get pieced together and
painfully debugged to create a stable release. The new approach involved scrapping a large amount of legacy code in
favor of a whole new code base, which isn't something they've really done since they built NT 4.0. The new platform for
their code allows the introduction of Windows elements without throwing off the rest of the system; the modules are
debugged automatically and the system even snitches on the engineers responsible for lame code. This system even
eventually allowed for the reintroduction of WinFS, Gates's pet project which had been scrapped due to the mounting
complexity of Longhorn. It didn't happen overnight, though. Hissy fits were thrown and feelings were hurt, but in the
end a few code zealots managed to convince Gates & Co. of what needed to be done if they planned on ever actually
releasing a new version of Windows. And the rest, as they say, is, well, you know.
[Via Slashdot]
Wow. So you're telling me Microsoft quit using 1965 development practices, and updated to something a little more robust? Wow. Color me impressed.
And they say markets are efficient at picking the best product... /snark
I would, but I left my impressed marker at home.
I really see the days of total windows domination numbered. Its pretty much a forgone conclusion that this next release of windows will still be garbage, and the alternatives are going to keep gaining steam.
WinFS has not been scrapped, i know a guy that's working on it. It won't be part of Vista, but it will probably be released with SP1 or SP2. It's not a new file system like NTFS, it's just runs on top of NTFS and makes for easier searching and such. You won't even have to reformat your hd.
Even if they cleaned up windows a little on the inside, it's still a UI mess with gobbs of wasted space. OS X had transparancy in the title bars in 10.1, but quickly toned it down, then dropped it as it produced too much clutter (same with the original OS X stripes). BTW new code base = many broken legacy apps. Windows Vista will be stillborn. Quick, bring in Tom Delay to demand it be kept on life support.
Being a Mac zealot doesn't automatically make you right.
It's just not believable that they built an entirely new code base for Windows in 18 months. I have seen speculation that this story is part of an upcoming PR campaign to convince consumers that Vista is not going to be crap.
Well according to the google ad I can currently buy either windows vista or cattle off of eBay.
"Longhorn
Longhorn for sale. aff Check out the deals now!
www.eBay.com"
I agree - this smells of spin. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to go out and tell the world that you have in fact worked in a very unproductive way for 15 years.
Well, at least we can all relax now they've reassured us that everything has changed... phew
The WSJ is a little misleading. There is no new code base for Vista. Longhorn was indeed scrapped, but not for something new, but for something already in existence. Vista code base = Windows 2003 server SP1. Vista will obviously add eye candy, so Vista to server 2003 will be like XP to Windows 2k.
Not that this is a bad thing. Windows 2003 is solid. I know it is not too different from XP, but it seems more responsive on the same hardware. But again, Vista will be nothing but 2003 + eye candy.
So let me get this straight... Apple goes out on a limb with Jobs pushing R&D and develops a brand new OS, takes on the risk of introducing this new OS and getting their developers on board. OS X takes off and is widely considered the best desktop OS, next to the 'geek' dominated Linux, ever made. Then MS comes out and says look at us, we're going to have a new OS, its called Longhorn and it will be on par or better than Apple's OS and will keep Windows users from switching to Apple or Linux.
After a year and a half of PR and speculation we now find out that Longhorn is dead, and Vista will just be a refresh of Windows Server. Whoopee. So where is the innovation from Redmond? Where is the new OS they wanted to whip out to impress users to give Apple and Linux a run for their money?
Sorry but this just proves that MS doesn't have any good ideas or the backbone to carry out anything worth supporting.
Oh and to #6, the comment about OS X's GUI changes wasn't a statement trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, it was an illustration of how MS has completely ignored what didn't work in other, more original, OS releases.
What #6 said.
You know what no matter what MS does, its OS wont beat Linux for just one reason, open source. The trends in the market are changing and is converting more and more towards user convenience and open source allows the user to update the software to his liking/need. If you dont like one flavor of linux you can always try 100 others. There is something out there for almost every one.
Hardware compatibality is a problem but the adoption of linux by big names like HP and IBM will change that soon.
"Being a Mac zealot doesn't automatically make you right."
Heh. It automatically makes you wrong.
Some of you really need to do some research before you blab a paragraph of pure crap! Sure, MS didn't re-write the entire code base but it doesn't mean there are not a ton of new features and improvements. Go do some research on the new networking stack that will be multi-threaded and optimized for mutli-core/cpu. And the new automated deployment features will make life much easier for network administrators. Youll me able to mount and change drivers of an install image without having to rollout a box, make the changes, and then grab the image again. How about the new Remote Application in Terminal Service where the application shows up as if it were a local application? Independent audio stacks for applications allowing each to control its own? The new modular crypto allowing you to code and plug your own crypto into the stack will be incredible. Don't forget them moving some of the drivers from kernel mode to user mode to help prevent drivers from crashing the system. Seriously, some of you need to go and do some reading before you say the only change is some flashy transparency effects.
Man there are a lot of morons on this thread. Just because an OS uses an existing code base doesn't mean its going to automatically suck. Have you guys been paying attention to the patches that have come out over the last two years since 2003 has been out?
Many if not most of the patches that apply to Windows XP, 2K, and NT don't for 2003 which speaks highly of MS cleaning things up. Doubtless they have done this even further with Vista. Now I'm not going to give Gates a virtual blowjob and blow sunshine up everyone's ass by saying Vista is going to be perfect. I fully expect the first 6 months of Vista's life is going to be all about patching a crap load of bugs. I fully expect SP1 of Vista to be out by 1st quarter 2007. Its going to be a messy transition but don't tell me Apple didn't have their hands full with 10.0 which in and of itself was a buggy POS to begin with. Any Mac user who isn't a downright zealot knows that it wasn't until 10.2 that things got cleaned up and realisticly 10.3 is where Apple hit their stride. The same will apply to vista. IMHO MS has been an ungodly amount of time on the core of the OS. What will come in the next couple years is the "eye candy" and features. This is how MS should have been developing their software from the start. Now could this be a simple PD piece. Sure. But there is a hell of a lot of stuff in that article that makes MS and more specifically Billy boy look like they don't know what they are doing. And if they are willing to go that far I'm hoping the rest is true as well. We will see.
I'm a Mac guy now but I have been a Windows user in the not-too-distant past and I was actually looking forward to Longhorn/Vista.
I loved Windows 2000 Pro because it worked a whole lot better then 98 AND it didn't suck as much a XP does, but I have to concede that Vista probably will be sub-standard.
I used to work for a tech support agency and I really feel sorry for all those guys now. The difference between Win 95/98/Me wasn't big but the inconsistancies were a drag, from 98/Me to XP was just a ridiculous amount of changes. I think that goes some way to explaining why there are STILL those running Win98. I hope Vista doesn't stroll too far off the track, as average Joe won't know what's going on (no offense to Joe).
In saying that though, I AM still hopefull that it won't be a complete mess. I'll still have to 'fix' my Dad's PC when he can't find where he saved his email attachments :(
Cheers;
Poncho
No worries. If Vista doesn't work for you, you can try one of its 6 other versions. ;-)
"the internal drama at Microsoft surrounding their move from a messy Windows Longhorn to their more modular Windows Vista"
ehm... more dramatic than Steve Jobs passing to Intel?
@15:
"How about the new Remote Application in Terminal Service where the application shows up as if it were a local application?"
That feature obviously comes from Citrix, which already has that exact same functionality (at least in the latest release: Citrix Presentation Server 4.0).
-- Elias
teece - actually, in a way, Microsoft is going BACK to 1965 development practices - which would be a huge improvement. If you read the article, you'll find this quote:
"Old-school computer science called for methodical coding practices to ensure that the large computers used by banks, governments and scientists wouldn't break. But as personal computers took off in the 1980s, companies like Microsoft didn't have time for that. PC users wanted cool and useful features quickly."
There's the problem that's existed with pretty much everyone for ages now. Instead of getting stable code and machines that can be depended on, we get features for the sake of features, pointless 3-D effects, transparencies and shadows, and prettier pictures of folders.
I would pay twice the price for an OS that looked as simple as the first Macintosh, but guaranteed speed and stability and insanely reliable uptime.
I have no idea if this is all spin from Microsoft, but if it does signal a commitment to reliability instead of flashy crap, then thank heavens. What one OS maker does drives the rest of the market to follow suit.
Up until now, Apple has pushed everyone to keep improving usability, and the various open source movements have pushed Apple and MS towards accountabilty and security. Maybe this next Windows will push the market to focus on things that don't break.
And if it's all a big sham, well, at least that Soap Opera Digest graphic above made my day.
Commentary and analysis aside,
best...Engadget photo...ever
i can't believe Reese is being fired and Carly is being re-cast. Those general hospital execs are on crack.
Don't know about you guys but I am still using 98SE. In fact, just this week I discovered that when I bring down video hardware accelartion in the system settings my computer became way faster and even more stable.
I am planning to celebrate 98SE's 10th birthday in a couple of years. See ya then.
^ OWNED!