Patent proposes RFID tags with VIN info

Anyone who has ever been hit by another driver who then fled the scene knows how frustrating hit-and-run accidents can be; unless you have a solid witness or some good forensic evidence, most of these crimes are never solved. Well a patent application slithering its way through the patent office approval maze proposes a unique solution for catching automotive scofflaws: install RFID chips that contain VIN information in every new car. The propsed system incorporates chips with a maximum range of eight inches, to allay privacy concerns, and are only activated during an accident. So even if a hit-and-run driver speeds away, their VIN number will have been recorded by the victim's RFID tag reader, which can then be read by police. Guess this means that we're gonna have to start leaving windshield notes every time we "brush up" against someone else's ride from now on.

[Inaudible Distortion @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Nice picture

[dayvid @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

i lost my leg in a hit and run accident........

[Matt @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

With an 8 inch range how is the victim's RFID tag going to pick up on it? Its not likely the tags will come in range of each other in the majority of accidents.

[Charles @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

I might be wrong, but 8 feet isn't so close. Someone could drive along side you, or in front or behind you, and be able to read it (if it's activated - read on...).

And in the same way that you can pickup a distant wifi signal with a directional antenna, wouldn't it be possible to read the information in an RFID tag?

And how will it be activated? By a ding on the metal, much like what a car alarm utilizes? Forget the fact that it wouldn't be cost effective to make such systems manditory (or much less cost benefitial for the average consumer given what they do and the statistics involved with it), what if someone could remotely activate one of these tags?

Hypothetically, it seems possible to remotely activate this tag and read the information on it from a substantial distance.

Wasn't there talk some time ago about Texas Instruments ignoring RFID vulnerabilities? I also recall seeing an article on Hack-A-Day a couple weeks back showcasing a device that hacked GPS and changed the read-out coordinates. If you ask me, I say expect more of the same in the business world.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Charles: Inches, not feet

[dogten @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

8 inches of range on RFID? Are you kidding us? The range for RFID was proven to be readable at more than 50' at Blackhat in Las Vegas this year. The only reason they did not get greater range was the presenter wanted to keep the demo in the room. RFID security is such a lie, people need to wake up

[blogman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Its only transmitting the VIN. this is human readable on any car parked anywhere. Its not a privacy issue when cars are made displaying them out the front windsheild.

[patrick @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

whenever i park somewhere in which the adjacent cars are very close to mine and the possibility of a door opening scratching my car, i always jot down the license plates and makes of the cars next to me then inspect my doors when i return. just in case.

[ericthebikeman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

A lot of good that does your hit by a beatup old buick.

I don't think many people driving new cars hit and run, especially if they still owe $20k+ on the car. It's unlikely they'd simply junk the car, eat the loss, then buy another car.

[questioner @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

dogten, I'm pretty sure I read about that on engadget. I can't find the article though, can you or somebody help me out?

[evo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Cool idea, but when's the last time someone with a NEW car banged into you and then took off? Isn't it always the jackass in the rusted beater that does this sort of thing?

[dogten @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

questioner, I have no idea where you read about it. I was at Blackhat Briefings and Defcon 13 and saw it in person. It made me seriously paranoid about RFID and its "security through proxmity" approach. Wait until TSA starts depending on RFID returns on US passports this fall. Only a matter of time before spoofing identity becomes as simple as replaying the return from someone else and people start getting charged with crimes that the Department of Homeland Security can "prove" you were present for. Scary stuff.

[Matt_S @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Good! If you 'brush up' against another car, you WILL do damage. Anyone that owns a car will tell you that it is like being robbed everytime someone does damage to your car and fails to won up to it. My fiancee cannot understand my rage when this happens. She chalks it up to, "it happens." She has never owned a car, being a Philadelphian with no real need. I tell her, "When you invest $20-30,000 on a car, you will understand." She does not get it. People that are against this do not get it oe they are the perpetrators. I am the first one of my friends to advocate an anonymous lifestyle, but for this I must make an exception.

[Elias @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Per the site: "Howw Code Will Be Recovered From RFID Devices?
The coded information can be obtained in the field with the use of handheld readers or �interrogators�"

This is stupid... if you're involved in a hit and run accident, you'd better get out of your car with a quickness and zap their VIN.

Chances are, they'll be gone before you get out; worse if you're the one in serious condition, and can't get out to do that.

-- Elias

[Ross Kimbrough @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

imagine the gas stations will pick up on this as well if RFID is in every car to protect from drive-offs. That will be a long time

[GTgadget @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

"Its only transmitting the VIN. this is human readable on any car parked anywhere. Its not a privacy issue when cars are made displaying them out the front windsheild."

...of course, a printed VIN very hard to read when the car is moving. Not to mention, it's hard for someone to walk up to your car and read it without being noticed. The problem with RFID is that it allows for discrete tracking of people/objects. Tags can be read without the tag holder necessarily being aware of the transaction(s). THAT is the major privacy problem.

I'd be beyond FURIOUS if I were the victim of a hit and run...

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000653062030/#c499409

...but I don't support this either.

"People that are against this do not get it oe they are the perpetrators."

I really hope you realize that's a terrible argument and a total B.S. fallacy.

[David @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

This is a idea by someone with good intentions but I doubt it will do any good for the 1200 pedestrians killed by hit and run drivers every year http://www.deadlyroads.com .

If they can get by the privacy, technical, and legal issues, I hope it offers some help for the victim families.

[dogten @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

Imagine the fun for the GTA crowd. Sniff an enemy's VIN, reprogram your own and go bumper rubbing. Who's door do the cops knock on?

[Martin Tibbitts @ Dec 19th 2005 2:37AM]

I am a big fan of RFID , and this is a natural extension of a VIN. People don't complain about license plates. this should be no different.

Martin Tibbitts