Verizon FiOS got user-reviewed

The bonus of this whole Internet thing is knowledgeable users can sometimes peep things that we don't have access to—like the very lucky and privileged few who already have Verizon FiOS fiber-to-the-home (FTTH) that we've been hearing (and hoping, wishing, dreaming) about for way too long now. One of the first cities with an active rollout is Keller, Texas, and resident Craig J.'s got a sweet first-look user review of the IPTV service, which has 20 HD channels and apparently the best picture quality dude's ever seen, including non-HD channels (to paraphrase). Just to tempt you a little more to move to an area with service, you can also pick up 30/5MBps fiber Internet access, if you recall. Oh, cruel metropolis with constantly-going-out 5/0.3MBps Internet, we curse thee!

[jimmy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Once verizon gets past installation woes they are going to rape the cable companies. I think its 5 megs for $30 a month and 15 for $50 for the internet hook up.

It even says on the flier thats its good for downloading movies, the mean legally i suppose.

[Cumulus @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Really quite cruel they are to withhold from the rest of us...

[Lite @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I have Comcast and have the exact same box.

too bad all the usb and front end connections are disabled.

The box though works good, no lag or slow down.

DVR is nice, even taping HD stuff, rarely fills up.

Do get lots of HD channels (viewing on a 32 inch analog set) and it DOES look killer.

[XiozTzu @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

The FCC wont let them remove the copper, they still have to offer that as an unbundled network element or UNE. At least that is my view of FCC policy, they may have interpreted it differently.

[Steve @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Hmm I've got fiber to my house too.. from Surewest they offer it up to 20mbps (standard being 10mbps) thay also offer TV/PHONE services over fiber now too.

[Timmay @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Mine fills up all the time! (though I do have the Pat's Superbowl and the Redsox World series win on there :-D and i'm never deleting them!) I wounder how hard it would be to drop a bigger drive in there.

Anyone try this b4?

And the Comcast DVR is sweet, few bugs, but sweet.

Timmay

[Zundian @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I'm really confused by the two satellite bashes in the article. I've never had my satellite service go out during the hellacious storms that we've gotten in IL since July 2004. I also had a DISH 80 hour DVR and it was smaller than my cable box (our cable company uses the same boxes as FiOS) so I don't understand the boat comment.

[robotrock @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

FiOS is available in my area...but unavailable to lowly condo (or apartment) dwellers like myself. I was told by the rep that they haven't "figured out" how to supply FiOS to stacked housing ..."yet."

[Topmounter @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I thought that FIOS deployment was fiber to the house and use the existing coax wiring in the house?

[marc @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

i am in silver spring md and verizon is rolling out fios in my area. i don't have it but i am a member of a board where several people had it installed and they did remove the copper wires. verizon doesn't care about the law considering the fact that they just bought out mci and now control the entire telecomunications of the northeast and probably the country. does anyone remmeber when they rolled out "naked dsl" which was a dsl line without a phone line as long as you switch your home phone number to a verizon wireless number? when i called up they decided why not charge for a phone line and dsl and cell phone if you have no other choices (which is illegal because it is a "tie-in"). I have a feeling that verizon is the next big antitrust case waiting to happen.

[XiozTzu @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

marc - If they are really doing that you should file a complaint with your states public utility commission and/or the FCC.

[Henri du Pont @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

They are installing FiOS close to here in Hockessin Delaware. We have heard they remove all the copper to the home in the process so you can never switch to another provider, (except wireless I suppose). Has anyone else heard about the copper removal and what is the concensus on this?

[mclaugh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

#9, nice anti-Verizon rant. What does that have to do with Fios?
Also, how could they remove the copper? It's a cost issue- removing the copper means they have to put more money into existing phone users who may not get the new services. They only want to make a phone customer a "fios customer" if they can sign them up for internet and/or tv (if available). Phone service is a loss leader, and they can't make up the money by just "switching" you over away from copper.
It's amazing- people complain about anything- what could be bad about super-fast internet service? I mean, 30megs d/l speed is a lot faster than what I have right now with Cablevision, particularly at 8pm at night when all the kids in my neighborhood log on!

[Darien @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I've got the 15/2 Fios service... had no problems with installation... and man it flies... I can't wait til they start offering TV serice in this area(Montgomery County, MD), good bye Direct TV....

[Darien @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I've got the 15/2 Fios service... had no problems with installation... and man it flies... I can't wait til they start offering TV serice in this area(Montgomery County, MD), good bye Direct TV....

[I.E @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Please, could you guys explain what you mean by "removing the copper wires". Thx

[Paul @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I hope they use a better DVR. I have that Motorola 6412 tuner from Comcrap. It needs a ton of improvement. The interface is clunky, compared to my standard Tivo. It doesn't screen out reruns, it fails to record some programs, and has terrible SD output.

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I'm in W. Springfield, VA (more or less DC) and got the 15/2 service ($24.95/month) back in August. It is fantastic! If by "remove the copper" you mean disconnect the main box outside your house and switch voice service over to fiber then, yes, they do that. They install a little 4 hour UPS in case the power ever goes out and you need to call like 911 or for a pizza or something. The copper is still there though, just a matter of reconnecting it. At least that was my understanding.

[Eric J @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Fairfax County, VA just last week voted to allow Verizon to offer their IPTV service in the county. I can't wait!

[James @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

The FIOS looks awesome and the price is right. The only problem I see is the Motorola DVR box. I only hope it doesn't have the same software as Comcast becuase theirs is horrid. For anyone that says they like it, they haven't used anything else. Granted, it's hard to beat Tivo, but a monkey could have made the Comcast DVR better. I have an HTPC DVR that is more user friendly.

[Dudley @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

You know it's not often that Belgium is on the technology front line - but we've had a national IPTV service for a couple of months now... http://www.belgacom.be/private/en/jsp/static/belgacomtv.jsp

Haven't heard much about the quality - they don't even seem to have demos in their stores. But the word on the street is that the special Belgian football coverage they are trying to lure new customers with, looks like it was shot by one guy at the back of the stand with a Video8 camcorder...

[FIOS user in Manhattan Beach CA. @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

i would be interested in seeing the pricing from other people.

In Manhattan Beach, Verizon is asking...

$40 for 5mb down/.3mb up
$150 for 30mb down/.3mb up

[Tony C @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

#2 & #16 --

That's a "NO" on the copper removal. It's fiber to a termination box outside your house and CAT5 into the house for data -- coax off of the router for FiOS TV.

[harry @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I got Verizon FiOS a few months ago in Belmont MA. Just phone and internet, tv is not yet available but is supposed to be coming soon. I pay about $35/month for 5MB up, 1.5MB down (which is a discount because I got a Verizon long distance bundle).

The first thing the installer did was remove the copper wire and its old juntion box from the side of my house, and all the copper wire out to the pole in the street - there is no going back. A friend in my town convinced them to leave the cooper and old junction box on his house, but it was a special request that they won't do by default.

The phone quality is clear and works well (better than the very old copper and its associated problems I've had in my neighborhood). And the high speed net access is obviously far superior to the DSL I had before (faster, with no dropouts).

However, I have had Verizon come back several times to fix the installation. The installers have to splice the fiber optic cable during installation and apparently their training and skill level varies dramatically. Now that its working, its great, but it took a few re-tries.

Also, be aware that the dc current that powers your phone no longer comes from the copper from the street. Verizon installs a (very cheap, IMO) converter to provide dc power for your phones. Verizon has a "secret" list of phones that are not compatible because (I believe) their power converter is so cheap and so noisy that it screws up many phones. That was one of the reasons I had the Verizon service techs come back so many times. Eventually I bought a new phone and threw away the one I had.

And as #18 mentioned, if your power goes out, then the back-up batterty will only last 4 hours or so. After that, you no longer have a dial tone.

[Tony C @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

#2 & #16 --

That's a "NO" on the copper removal. It's fiber to a termination box outside your house and CAT5 into the house for data -- coax off of the router for FiOS TV.

[rrm @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I also live in Keller and have the FIOS internet as well as the HD TV service now. The picture is quite unbelievable - the best I've see compared to cable, DTV or Dish. The Motorola DVR on the other hand is horrible! I am used to using Tivo SA1s and the GUI on this is really almost unusable. I also have a lot of problem with command-lag. I go to pause or FF or something and especially on the HD recordings, it may be 30 seconds or more before the box responds. I have two of these receivers and both exhibit the problem. I also am annoyed that most of the ports are disabled and the guide data is frequently wrong. I think I am going to toss the HD DVRs until the next generation is out. Until then, I will "suffer" with the regular converter box and my Tivos and use my antenna for HD - I usually only watch broadcast networks on HD anyway.

[Woof Woof @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

To clarify some stuff...

The Optical Network Terminals that Verizon originally rolled out are AccessMax 610 and 610X boxes. They can't do IP return over coax, so Vz has to install a black box (see photo) to allow the Moto STB's to communicate back to Vz for VOD.

Those using Comcast and judging the box... keep in mind that this box isn't running the same software as Comcast, so the interface and features may be very different.

Copper removal: They don't remove any copper from inside your house when Fios is installed, however they may remove the copper from the street to your NID. You have to specifically ask them not to if you want to keep the old copper.

[Shannon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I have FiOS business internet service in my home office in Carrollton, TX. I had to do a few FTP transfers to verify the speed but it is indeed 15Meg inbound and 2Meg outbound.

I'm interested in their HDTV service but I have the Moto box the other posts describe, with Comcast. I have the same issues with command lag and the guide. I hope Verizon comes up with something better.

[Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Most of FiOS video is not delivered as IPTV. The VOD portion is IP. The rest of the programming is delivered MPEG-2 over QAM. There is also an analog tier for people not wanting to use the STB.

[AJ Kuftic @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Or you could have forced upon you DSL access because you live in an apartment complex that doesn't allow any other providers and have the speeds go from liveable to downright horrible. I'm talking 10000 ms ping times here. It's terrible. I'd pay double for FIOS at this point. Seriously.

[Shannon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Oh, as for leaving the copper, it doesn't matter. If you switch to another phone company they will use the local company's infrastructure anyway.

So why are you still using copper when you have tons of bandwidth and VoIP? My Vonnage service is less than half the cost of Verizon or Comcast.

[Shannon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Oh, as for leaving the copper, it doesn't matter. If you switch to another phone company they will use the local company's infrastructure anyway.

So why are you still using copper when you have tons of bandwidth and VoIP? My Vonnage service is less than half the cost of Verizon or Comcast.

[Mike @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

That Motorola cable box is not the same one Comcast offers. The one pictured has HDMI. The only ones available from Comcast (as far as I know) only include DVI. Anyone know more about this? I'd love to get a HD cable box with HDMI from Comcast.

[Tom @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I have the Fios 5/2 plan and it is great. As soon as they roll it out here in Tampa, Im getting the TV as well...so long brighthouse/timewarner !

[Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

The box pictured is basically a DCT-6412 Phase III, they are available to cable companies...HDMI included.

[Steve @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I have FIOS but I can't get the TV yet...

[Mike LaCon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Ha, my town got FIoS before alot of people too... The internet's in our town too, and by January I think, we can get TV service from them too.

[Dagger @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I live in keller and the fios service stops about one street away from me...that made me very angry

[Ghost @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

#2
I have 15/2 service. They disconnected the copper ONT, but did not remove it in any way. In fact, they are required to leave the copper box on the house.

#12
Stop making things up for the sake of complaining...you don't know what you're talking about (I'm in Silver Spring too).

#31
VOIP isn't always cheaper...generally only when you make a lot of long distance calls. I receive a $5 discount from Verizon for having a calling package and FiOS...that makes my calling package cheaper than VOIP would be for me.


#32
Supposedly, Comcast does have the HDMI boxes now, but I haven't been successful in getting one from them yet. However, a coworker of mine just got one for a new install.

[A.J. @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

My neighborhood is getting fiber optic right now. It is beign offered by Time Warner Cable, I dont know how fast it gets though.

[Jason Young @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I'm in Plano, TX, and have the 15/2 Fios package, and it is great so far. I'm paying $45/mo. Comcast charges $55 for 6/?.

I can confirm they leave the copper alone, they just connect your current wiring to the new ONT, and disconnect the old.

Can someone post prices for HD packages?

[rrm64 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Here's the helpful links to the price list and channel guide. I found them quite accurate.
http://www.thefilehoster.com/images/ka326058.pdf
http://www.thefilehoster.com/images/kTi26334.pdf

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

FYI to all, they have the internet service here in Northern VA... they're blocking inbound port 80 and outbound 25. Do don't get too excited about hosting your smtp/web server on your new fast pipe.

[Brett @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I am having Grande fiber installed as we speak. (grandecom.com)

[RScottyL @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Comcast does offer a "Phase III" DCT-6412 box that has HDMI as well as external SATA connection:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558602

[Chino_VA @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

I got FIOS installed in Arlington and I regret it. FIOS is great, speed is great, no service issues. The issue is cost and the fact that Verizon monopolizes your house once you switch to FIOS. They remove the copper wire from the telephone polls to your home. By doing so, no other provider (internet/phone) is able to give you access. You are FORCED to stay with Verizon. Sure, you can go with cable internet, but for non-cable subscribers the internet costs more $$.

As a consumer they take away all of your choices. It sucks!

[Vern @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Thats wierd, my brother got the option to keep the current wire structure in doing so keeping options open. Maybe you got a lazy installer.

[Ben @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

You guys complaining about the removal of the copper from your telephone polls are going to feel pretty stupid in about 2 years from now. By removing the copper, Verizon hasn't forced you to stick with their company, they have only forced you to stick with the new cable. And why not? It's the future, why the hell would you ever go back to copper? Copper can't possibly go as fast as the FiOS cables, switching back would be moving backwards in technology. It would be like saying "I don't like this 3GHz processor, I want to go back to my 2GHz processor", and that wouldn't make sense, would it?

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

Woof Woof said that the ONTs that Verizon *originally* rolled out "can't do IP return over coax." Does that mean that Verizon has since rolled out some newer ONTs?

Any word on if Motorola (or another) introduces a DVR that can accept a fiber connection, thereby eliminating the need to convert the optical signal to RF-over-coax (which seems to be an unnecessary transaction)?

And any word on if/when Verizon and the cable companies will start using a codec better than MPEG2, sich as MPEG4 or H.264? (MPEG2 streaming at 4 Mbps just seems to be a rather inefficient use of bandwidth when roughly the same quality can be found in a better codec at 1/3 the bandwidth.)

Penny for your thoughts...

[sean mcveigh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:07AM]

My house is pre-wired for cable and cable (used be a Comcast subscriber) as well as set up with internal connections and hub for standard 100Mbps network. Anyone have this set up and get FIOS already? I'm wondering if they can use the existing cabling into my house or if they will have to run a fiber line into my network box.