iPod with video no likey cellphones
By Ryan Block 
posted Nov 14th 2005 12:00PM
posted Nov 14th 2005 12:00PM
We can neither confirm nor deny firsthand the results of the video linked below (for one reason or another no one at
Engadget seems to own or have access to a cellphone), but apparently certain amounts of radio interference emitted by
cellphones can drive an iPod with video freaky crazy wild. We're not sure what makes the 5G iPod any less shielded from
RFI than other iPods (or if other iPods have this problem as well), but apparently some users are confirming the issue
— and if nothing else watching that iPod go on the fritz when that cellphone gets close might elicit a chuckle.
Watch [3GP]
ROKR STRIKES BACK!!
whoah!!! it does, i can change the volume on my ipod without touching it!!! i could be defeaned if my phone rings when in the same pocket as my ipod!!! p.s. no lasting effects noticed... yet
That's odd...
I can't seem to replicate this... I've got a Treo650 and an iPod with video, and when put together, my iPod is still solid as a rock.
ok, i called my housephone and then moved it round my ipod while playing music. oh and soz for the spelling mistake in my previous post!
I used to put my old Nokia phone right next to my iPod in my car, and now I do the same with my new Motorola V3. I have never noticed any ill effects on the iPod itself. But then, my iPod is a 4th-generation one.
ha, just tried it on mine, that's hilarious! didn't do it on my tmo phone, but worked on a coworkers cingular. probably the same as the att buzzing speakers thing
Just tried it and it definitely causes the iPod's volume control to spaz out when a call comes into my RAZR. Interestingly, I could bring the volume up and down by passing the phone back and forth across the front of the click wheel.
Trying again with the Hold switch enabled on the iPod prevented interference from the phone.
I see they're using a Sony Ericsson. I've got a T637, and it drives every pair of speakers I walk past, out of their mind. I've never seen anything throw off interference like this thing. Apparently it's endemic of the brand. So I can't say I'm surprised. -I can always tell when I'm getting a call before the phone even starts ringing.
i think it may be the apple click wheel!!
someone try it on a nano!
happened to my friend. must be the new click wheel
Just adding a "me too" using an SMT5600 from Cingular.
The volume on my nano used to dramatically fluxuate in my pocket before I became more vigilant about using the hold switch. At the time I attributed it to the scroll wheel being overly sensitive and brushing up against my leg but now I'm wondering if its proximity to my cell phone (which I keep in the same pocket) is the culprit.
dosn't work with my nano and my LG Vx8100
same thing happened to me the other week. i wasn't sure what was going on at first!
i do have to say, i absolutely hate how every Cingular phone i have makes speakers buzz for no reason. it's so damn annoying! not a single TMO phone ever did that (and they're always european unlocked phones). i wish i knew how to make it stop. it's irritating when my speakers buzz so loud it wakes me up.
This is what is known as TDMA interference.
Put any active GSM, iDEN or IS-136 phone next to a speaker, of anysort, and you will get interference. (sounds like morse code) - It does not happen always, it depends on several factors
This does not happen with CDMA phones (US/Canada see: verizon, bell, telus, sprint) because of the way the CDMA air interface works
It spazzes my nano. I just hear the normal cellular interference noise and plus when I'm using it to send or recieve data, it'll lower the volume (saw it with my own eyes and it doesn't revert back) XD It was about the funniest thing ever XD However, this must be done with the cellphone in front of the nano. It does nothing when it's behind it. Guess the shiny is good for something other than being a handy mirror.
Oh yeah, Nokia 3200 here~
No problems with my Nextel and Nano...
I can confirm it happens with my Cingular Treo 650 and the new 60GB iPod. I thought the iPod was defective, so I exchanged it at an Apple store. The next day, it happened again. The Law of Averages dictated that I couldn't have received two different pieces of hardware that exhibited identical wonky behavior, so I ran the same informal tests others listed above, and it's definitely the phone's signal that's causing the iPod's volume to jump around like a kid on a Halloween candy binge.
Here's a tip for getting this to work with phones that don't work normally:
Go into the phones setup and change it to analog mode only. If your phone has this option, set it and send or receive a call. When it's in analog mode it pumps out a lot of power.
I was talking to a friend who used to work for an IC company that, among other things, made power management chips used primarily in Laptops. One of the laptop manufacturers they were supplying to found that if a cell phone was sitting on the laptop when it received a call it would reboot! Some of the signal was coupling onto the lines going into the IC making the chip think there was an overvoltage condition and initiating the shutdown of the laptop.
Hmm lets see..
Subjecting microelectronics that appear to not be completely shielded from RFI.
Not a good idea.
Its like adding extra voltage to a circuit.
Might damage your little iPod toy.
I'm betting this WASNT part of their QA.
Bedammit
seems as if it only works with 850 mhz such as Cingular and Verizon but not T-mobile.
Yes, I was noticing this too, but since my last iPod was a Gen2 I was wondering if this was common in Gen 4 as well. In a way, I've been looking at it as a feature - mine only gets softer due to cell phone interference. So it's almost like it's automatically muting the iPod when I get a call.
Please someone confirm: Is this symptom cured when the hold switch is in the locked position? That will tell us whether this is an issue with the Apple click wheel or another component. i.e. what is being interfered with: the user interface to the volume control, or the volume setting itself?
Please someone confirm: Is this symptom cured when the hold switch is in the locked position? That will tell us whether this is an issue with the Apple click wheel or another component. i.e. what is being interfered with: the user interface to the volume control, or the volume setting itself?
It seems to me it is the 850mhz frequency that is used by Cingular and ATT at fault? Tmobile users (including myself) can't replicate the problem since we only run on 1800. It seems the Verizon and Nextel (both non GSM) people can't replicate the problem also based on the postings above.
When I have my Nano on hold, it does not affect the volume control at all. When I don't have it on hold, volume is spastic.
HHAHAHAHA I DID IT with my nokia 6820 and the volume jumped like no other.
I get the effect with my Nextel Blackberry 7520, but not with my T-Mobile I-Mate SP3i.
It must be a sensitivity with the click wheel.
Does not work with a verizon Nokia 3589i and 5g
I have this problem in the UK. I have tried it with a Nokia 6600 (on "O2") and a Nokia on Orange.
It does not happen to my iPod photo or iPod 3G.
It is definitely the click wheel, as it jumps no matter what screen you are in.
Most likely due to Apple making its own Click Wheel for these iPods.
yeah, no prob's with my 5g and my sprint moto v60s. i have noticed at work, all the nextel phones (all moto) make some crazy amounts of static in the speakers of computers when a direct connect call is about to come in.
In response to "Ryan" the hold switch does fix the problem. It's as if someone is moving their finger over the wheel really fast, when hold is on the wheel wont work so there is no problem
Same thing with my Moto MPx220 phone. Figured it has something to do with the GPRS connection as it always happens during a data connection on my phone (web, e-mail, etc.) when I also hear the buzzing from nearby speakers.
I think I understand what's going on. I once asked someone who should know how an iPod wheel worked and he explained that the human body, full of water as it is, is an excellent antenna. It takes up all sorts of radio waves and transmits them. When your finger touches the wheel, the wheel can detect this concentration of radio waves, and interprets this appropriately. I'm thinking that the proximity of a cell phone antenna - sending out lots of radio waves - is being interpreted by the iPod like a finger would be. This explains why you can get the volume to go up and down by moving the phone in different directions, and it also explains why the volume doesn't change when the hold switch is activated. I'm also guessing that this only effects the Apple made wheels rather than the older type. If I had a phone, I'd try it with my Nano.
I hope this makes sense.
funny I just noticed the same phenomenon last night. I had the ipod 5g on the seat of my patrol car plugged in to the monster cable FM modulator, and my cingular treo 650 on the seat next to it. all of sudden the ipod's screen got wavy, the volume control was going back & forth and then the treo told me I had a new SMS message! there was no change in the audio output though. Just weird. MTB
Hi, can engadget either mirror the 3GP file or not directly link to it. My bandwidth hit 1.7GB and I think I only get like 2GB a day... Thank you
mark
i will sue apple and the cellphone, and anyone else.
it does happen between my nano and moto e398.
I can also confirm. The volume goes haywire on my 5G 60GB when the RF of my phone is sending and receiving signal data.
Hey I think my cellphone radiation just scratched my iPod Nano.
So it seems the 5th gen iPods are suseptible to GSM 850mhz traffic. Any 850mhz GSM phone will do this, just some are worse than others.
I have a Cingular Audiovox 5600 and it makes any unshielded speakers buzz and pop whenever it is sending out data. I actually had to switch out the speakers I use at work because the pair I had were really sensitive and it was getting very annoying.
I don't know if it's because of the new click wheel or if they ditched some RF shielding in order to make them thinner. Also it might be a different chip that they used this time that is really sensitive.
Just another reason to ditch the iPod in favor of an all in one device.
Video is down.
I'd be interested to know if it is GSM850 or 900 causing this. Apple may be due a call from the European regulators if this is true. That CE mark on the back of the iPod shows its been tested for ElectroMagnetic Compatibility (EMC). Part of the numerouis suite of tests is exposure to a radiated field from 80MHz to 1GHz. If what's been described above occurs during this test, it fails. If this is true, the iPod should not be on the European market, or the South Korean one (the only ones with this current requirement).
New link: http://www.248am.com/video/ipodvideogoingcrazy2.3gp
happened to my friend. must be the new click wheel
Nano seems to be immune from K700i (i.e. same handset shown in image) on UK T-mobile, which I think is 1800Mhz.
I've actually experienced this myself, having a k700 and the 5G iPod. I didn't make the link at the time, that the phone was causing the problem. Time for some more experimenting... running on GSM900 here.
listening to my ipod video last night when a call came in on my treo 650 and my 'pod started going nuts. the volume started going crazy, can't understand what would cause this. it humored and bewildered me.
not experiencing this with my nokia 3205 but i am experiencing a weird shut down problem, holding down teh play button to shut it down but if i scroll with the wheel i can hear the clicks meaning the unit is on. if i turn it on again it will have changed volume or place in scroll etc. very scary since im trying to shut the unit off but its just wasting power anyway no sleep state. this has happened about 5 times out of the 10 times ive shut it down
T-Mo USA is 1900, not 1800, the 1800 band is used OUTSIDE the US. Looks like 850 MHz GSM makes the 5G iPod spazz out, cool.
no no no, its a FEATURE! got a phone call? the ipod will get your attention to make sure you dont miss those important telemarketing opportunities.
Interesting since the other day I was driving along the local automated toll lane (http://www.mnpass.org/) and as soon as I passed under one of toll sensors and my transponder beeped, the volume on my 5G maxed out.
I am really surprised that hardly anybody is making a big deal out of this. It is a pretty basic facet of an electronic device that it needs to handle all kinds of electronic interference and function normally; this has been a requirement for decades. There is no excuse that this kind of thing is happening. Apple needs to make a public apology for this and do whatever they can. I don't know what they can do, as it is a fundamental flaw, but they need to at least come out with a revised version as soon as possible. This is patently ridiculous.
As above posters have said, it's not just an iPod thing. From what they've said it can cause speakers to go nuts. Also, I remember my friend used to set his nokia phone under (tmobile) his old Dell 19" CRT and whenever he had an incoming call the monitor would flip out. It didn't act like it would if there was a magnet next to it. It developed dark horizontal lines in random places.
Anyways, doesn't that FCC part 15 thing say that a device has to accept any interference that's out there? Like it or not, cell phones are fairly powerful microwave emitters, the above problems are just an illustration of that, not some deficiency in the products that must accept the interference.
I can confirm that it works with a Sony Ericsson T306 AT&T/Cingular, makes the scroll wheel go all nuts. I have the 30gb white 5th Gen
Way to go Apple!
Just tried it with my nano and Moto V635 and it did it! It's pretty irritating actually.
Can I exchange my ipod for this problem? Or is this universal?
Just like the little kid who has to touch the hot stove and can't take his mother's word for it...I just sat my dialling V3 on top of my 60gb 5G and practically blew my eardrums out! I wonder if I can sue?
Just called Apple support and they said they never heard of this problem. If everyone having this problem give them a call, maybe they'll admit that there's a real problem sooner and give us a fixed version... I know I'm probably dreaming...
Seems like putting on the case that came with it help prevent the interference. So Apple's solution to the screen scratch or interference issues is to use the case!
I've sold off my 4th Gen iPod so I can't check to see if this happens with that device. I was using it for over a year without incident. However, as I posted above, the 5th Gen is most definitely affected. I experienced this issue a number of times prior to reading the engadget posting, but didn't link it to phone usage at the time (iPod sitting on a bag on my lap while typing out some text messages). This is in the case, so that won't help.
As posted above, FCC does talk about accepting interference from other devices, but in a generic way (that's the only reference). There are no test methodologies listed in terms of how a manufacturer should verify this, unlike the detailed requirements for emissions from the device itself.
However, the EU does have specific requirements listed on accepting interference from other devices. It's known as the Radiated Immunity test, where your product is exposed to a field (AM wave with a modulation freq of 1KHz) of 3V/m over a range of 80-1000MHz. There was a seperate standard to address immunity to digital cell phone noise at 900/1800MHz, with different modulation signals vs the standard test. However, it was argued (correctly) that at least for 900MHz, the original standard covered this also.
Now the real question is, does the 5th Gen iPod pass this 3V/m level? If the answer is yes, then Apple have done their job (although they could have designed some margin in there!). If the answer is no .. Apple are in big trouble with the EU regulators.
Any Apple EMC engineers willing to step up to answer this question???
My Treo 650 Drives my 5G ipod crazy!!! This usually happens when I am on the subway and we exit a tunnel, at which point the Treo starts looking for a single and my ipod tries to make me go deaf by shooting up and down the volume! Thank god other people are having this problem!!! I thought I was going crazy!
Just discovered this yeasterday. I was at work enjoying my music, when the sound totaly went down, when i got a txt on my Nokia. I thoght that was a cool feature of ipods to do that. I was like way to go Apple. But it came to my attention the next day when i had my ipod next to my cell, that my ipod would not start at all. My phone was not ringing or doing anything. I could hear the click wheel click, but nothing was showing on screen. I had the worst panic for my ipod, and i had to press Menu+Play buttons to restart the ipod. It was immediatly fine after that, but not sure what is the long term damage my phone had done to my ipod? any ideas???
Actually, my old Rio Cali used to flip out if it was in the same pocket as my AT&T/Cingular phone. It would start hissing and displayed gibberish on the screen. Got my iPod to emulate the behavior described above, though I took the headphones off to save my ears. There's a simple solution, just don't keep a running iPod next to a cell phone. I had to do the same thing with the Rio and after a week or two of thinking about it became habit.