Microsoft responds to Xbox 360 crash reports
posted Nov 24th 2005 9:30AM
We know Microsoft has a lot riding on the Xbox 360's success, so it makes sense that in response to the first reports of Xbox crashes, they told Reuters there were "a few isolated reports of consoles not working as expected" for a "very, very small fraction" of Xboxes sold, and that their "number of calls was not unexpected." Maybe so, maybe no; there are always a certain amount of defective units on any product launch — especially one as huge as this — and it's not usually something anyone can call just based reports on forums alone. Molly O'Donnell, Microsoft spokesperson, called it "Par for the course." Then again, we did have to call the Xbox support line about six times before we could even get on hold to talk to someone, and wound up on the horn over two and a half hours because one of our retail units (the one that crashed a couple times) wouldn't (and still won't) connect to Live. We'll have to chalk that up to amazing odds, since only time will tell how pervasive and persistent the Xbox 360 crash problems really are, but in the mean time Microsoft says they'll overnight repair or replace any defective 360s in your midst. So if you're seeing screens like those above, holla at 'em.
[Thanks, gamestopzak]
Ha, I knew it! This always happens on new product launches! the PSP was the same way. they will deal with it. By the way, first post :D
suckas
fwapfwapfwapfwap!
I'm surprised it wasn't a Blue Screen of Death crash like Windows. ;)
My son's premium 360 locks up after 15 minutes of game time. M$ says they will send a box and the repair time will be 10 to 14 business days. I would have thought they would have units available for an overnight swap with so much riding on the launch of the platform. My sone is very dissapointed.
It was still a BSOD though, Black Screen Of Death
1, I agree, most system premieres do have some hardware/design issues. The Xbox 1 had the Thompson Drive on its launch too.
Theres an advantage for having to wait an extra 2 weeks for launch, chances are they would have gone some way to improving the production process and will end up with more relyable products.
I think every new piece of technology comes with its own set of issues... even look at the 'beloved' ipod.
I think what's more important is how a company handles those complaints and issues with its customers.
I wish they took this attitude with their software.
It sounds like excessive heating problem to me.
Most chips inside 360, cpu, gpu, memory, etc.., maybe manufactured on 90nm or even 65nm process technologies, and leakage problem is way more severe than you might think. In 90nm process 50% of overall power consumption comes from static leakage power rather than dynamic switching power. In 65nm technology, 80% of power consumption comes from leakage. Amazing, eh?
So MS should put much more effective coolers for all heat generating components. That's the only solution for now.
BTW, customers may suffer big noise pain, if coolers are to be fan-type...
It sounds like excessive heating problem to me.
Most chips inside 360, cpu, gpu, memory, etc.., maybe manufactured on 90nm or even 65nm process technologies, and leakage problem is way more severe than you might think. In 90nm process 50% of overall power consumption comes from static leakage power rather than dynamic switching power. In 65nm technology, 80% of power consumption comes from leakage. Amazing, eh?
So MS should put much more effective coolers for all heat generating components. That's the only solution for now.
BTW, customers may suffer big noise pain, if coolers are to be fan-type...
don't forget that reports of crashes were also overblown by the haters.
I have a question. Is everyones 360 so dang loud? Holy Crap! It's needs a drum silencing cage around for when you watch movies!
these problems were not unexpected...its always a very bad idea to be early adopters. The ps2 had its disk errors, and the psp its dead pixels. If you are an early adopter, you pay the price.
Right, like Microsoft has NEVER shipped a product that isn't ready. Ha ha ha ha ha ha... I hope you all didn't pay $1200 like the ebay people did!.
It's just weird to see how many of the reports come from specialized people... If we extrapolate the number of these specialists, how many defective units they got compared to the whole crowd, we might have a total number of defective units and more important, the percentage. No?
Some people are saying that all products have problems at launch. That isn't true. Sure the PsP, xbox1 had problems, but did the gamecube or DS or GBA? Or ps2? I know the new slim ps2 had problems but what about the original launch?
Did anyone notice in this picture the silver thermal grease touching the other traces on the GPU?:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=8
The original ps2 had problems
Here's an interesting one. I bought the wireless adapter and tried it out. it WOULD NOT get an ip address from my router. My laptop, the wife's and my DS and PSP had connections but not the xbox. Turns out, the special speed mode I had to put the router in for my DS makes it impossible for the xbox to connect. I had to put the router back in a standard mode-then Live worked like a charm :)
Even if this is for a very few consoles. How much more money is MS going to lose on the system. They are already losing around $125/per console. Overnighting both ways, plus replacement parts.
Well let's see, there's the first Xbox's Thompson DVD drive issue. Now part of a class action lawsuit. Yes, yes the PS2 had a dirty disc error issue, which was settled. The thing that galls me most about Microsoft's, however, is that they know it is specifically due to a set of DVD drives that later in the console's life they swapped out to a different manufacturers because of the riduclously high failure rate.
http://sentientcreations.com/xboxIssues/problem.php
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/xbox_dvd_repair.htm
Now there's an entire market based upon replacing your Xbox's DVD drive with a better one such as Samsung.
Microsoft's support solution: clean the disc. No matter how many times you tell them the disc is brand new, they say it's a dirty disc.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816771
Then there was the power supply issue. A recall in which power cords were issued to cover up shoddy circuitry that could and did cause house fires.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/ar/t215.htm
So a few weeks ago we started to see Xbox 360s in demo retail models showing the dreaded Error 74. Photograph of it here.
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000480066825/
Now we have reports of crashes that yes, are online and could be from a vocal minority, but I have never heard of or owned a console that crashes the way photographs show us is happening to the 360 - and let's remember the people complaining about it are the ones who braved the cold and the nuisance of picking one up.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/hours-old-and-pgr3-crashing-like-mad-138978.php#viewcomments
_____
In conclusion, and despite whatever marketing spiel Microsoft want to give, I want for them to answer one thing. What exactly is Error 74 and Error 79 - what does it mean is happening to the box. They have refused, as they did with the Thompson DVD drive, to let us know what is going wrong. Even if it isolated. Does it bode poorly for the future? Why is there a SPECIFIC error message already in the box's OS that is happening to people?
And did you hear about how the tech support person told that guy to "wipe his video cables with a soft cloth"? Too rich.
Probably the same quality assurance people working on windows let this through ;-)
HAHAHAHAHAHAA WHAT DID I TELL YOU!!!
YET ANOTHER MICROGARBAGE PRODUCT!!! U guys happy u wasted your money now?? HAHHAAHHAHAA...microshit!
so wait there's a class action lawsuit for the thompson drives. How do I get in on it?
Alright, as expected there is a certain amount of "defective" units at launch... to reply to # 16, the ps2 did have issues, my friend had to replace his within 2 months of launch, and I've heard of some people who had to replace it several times, this however also applies ot the first generation xbox, so im not going troll here. Ive heard of gamecube issues, but i know nothing of handhelds except the psp issues which in some cases went beyond pixel problems. There is a japanese video of umds spontaneously popping out of the system for example. I just think that people shouldn't freak out, and for goodness sakes stop being so anal just cause its a microsoft product. It a whole different division from the windows guys, and even if it werent, despite the many technical issues windows platforms have had in the past, admit that generally your life is much more convenient thanks to PCs...
WTF are all of you talking about??? None of these had issues this big, they said MULTIPLE onscreen errors, which means that its a firmware thing rejecting some of the compnents. Why? poorly built by asian MS slaves?
I got a PS2 in the second month it was released, i've had it for several years now and i've even dropped it an stepped on it. I never had any problems.
And the PSP was just fine, it had no problems. Except the fact that people were stealing the games and making illegal copies on thier MSduo's
And also the psp automatically updates itself from the umd's. I have never had any problems with it.
Your just throwing the issues onto other consoles saying that they had issues too.
But like i said, the errors sound hardware related and could cost MS alot of money on replacements. unless it can be just a firmware update like sony's awsome PSP.
hey early adopter gamers, get over it. technology always has an inherent level of risk associated with it. drugs meant to make people well make people sick. cars get recalled. astronaughts die returning to earth. software has bugs. hardware has bugs. unless you want to wait for MS, Sony, Nintendo to workout everything and make things safe and secure you will never get to game on the edge. go back to the atari and commador 64 and forget online play, top notch graphics and emersive games that truly entertain you.
In reply to posting #25 "...admit that generally your life is much more convenient thanks to PCs......".
Sorry to say, yes thanks to PCs, but no for Microsoft related PCs. Today I would say it is not getting any better thanks to microsoft's software and related policies relating to standards and poor GUIs... (from Windows, to the new Office suites, to so, oh so many weird and unconvenient standards they imposed to us lame people through peer pressure) :-(
SONY,
That's the chance you were waiting for....yep, Microsoft screwed up not only by not having enough machines at launch (thanks god), but also by putting many deffective consoles on the market.
HOPEFULLY you will learn with their mistakes and will take the time to make a console that will be true next-gen and one that works.
SONY will dominate the console market, I don't expect another console from Microsoft after this FIASCO. If Microsoft still wins the console battle after all this...man...are people dumb!?
I think it's funny that people actually think it's acceptable for a product to be defective at launch. I've purchased many gaming systems, and have never had an issue with one of them. By your theory, all of them should have had issues at launch, because at the times they were introduced, the technology was the latest, greatest and untested. Yet, I never had an issue with my Atari. I never had an issue with my Commodore 64, my NES, my SNES, my N64, my Gameboy, my Virtual Boy, my Jaguar, my Playstation (bought very close to the launch date), or my Gamecube. In fact, I don't remember any issues with the Gamecube, yet the PS2 and XBox had some.
Yet, Microsoft releases the 360, in very limited quantities mind you, and the Internet is overflowing with reports of defective units. And everyone's all "Well, THIS was to be expected." Why? The system isn't even a good one, why defend it so blindly? If it was to be expected, it was only because Microsoft developed it, and Microsoft rushed it to the market. Spin it however you want, the 360 apparently has some serious issues if the average person can't buy one, plug it in and play a game. Perhaps they should have concentrated on making it work to play games instead of adding tons of features that have no business being in a game console.
yeah right....you remember sony's supply and demand syle economics on the ps2 launch? they wont provide enough to the stores, and you can bet its on purpose, same with xbox 360, its this idea that the less consoles you put out there, the higher the demand gets. it might be true, but its really annoying.
How stupid you fanboys are. I'm going to get an Xbox 360 and a PS3. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm going to be playing the next generation games and you won't be. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And then when the PS3 comes out late next year I'm going to buy a PS3. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted Nov 24, 2005, 3:37 PM ET by Jay
HAHAHAHAHAHAA WHAT DID I TELL YOU!!!
YET ANOTHER MICROGARBAGE PRODUCT!!! U guys happy u wasted your money now?? HAHHAAHHAHAA...microshit!
I agree with #29.
It's totally inexcusable for any console developer to deliver a poorly tested unit at launch. These errors seem pervasive enough to be detectable by a rigorous testing process, something which should be standard practice for any hardware manufacturer.
One of the main advantages of consoles is supposed to be that you can plug them in and they'll just work. Nintendo seem to have the right idea when it comes to quality control, and Sega did have. I never experienced a crash on any of the gaming platforms I've owned. (Atari, NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy, GBA, Saturn)
I would hope that Sony would try and learn from this example and their past problems, and aim to deliver a bug-free PS3 at launch.
Ok it's math lesson time. And acceptable defect rate for a product is .1%. So.......
~440,000 (xboxes at launch) / 1000 =
440 of some of the most unlucky people imaginable.
I was unfortunate enough to not have my pre-order filled day 0 but having my order filled and having it break would have been a horror I couldn't imageine. To those miserable suckers I can only offer my sympathy.
#19: good point, but did you actually think Microsoft didn't plan for there to be some bad apples? Of course they did, and it's been factored into the price of the games. they are betting that perhaps making an extra $5 off reach game will bring them the profits. i can assure you they are not alarmed, financially, about the implications for having these problems.
and yes #29, i think it IS acceptable for there to be some bad units on launch. just because you didn't experience anything doesn't mean much, except that it wasn't a design problem. what's more important is how the company deals with these problems. and so far, Microsoft is dealing with it very correctly - set up a hotline, pay for the repairs and shipping, offer an exchange. again, it's pretty clear they were ready for this.
#28: sorry, you meant the sony vapourware? the one thing sony has going for it is the bluray DVD, which i think Microsoft should have included (or perhaps HD DVD), since most people will use this just to play games - who cares which format wins? sony has no real answer to Xbox Live and that is one of the most important long-term things Microsoft is betting on. not to mention, Xbox is an MCE as well - and trust me, Microsoft at very good at GUIs although Apple gets all the good press.
and i think we all would appreciate, #31, that if you've nothing to say, then don't say it.
That's stupid. Who came up with the whole 'Defective units should be expected on any launch' tangit? That's a load of crap. I have never noticed any such habbit with the launch of any Nintendo system. My DS works perfectly, and I bought that on launch. Just as does my Gamecube, and my Nintendo 64 before that. Not like that piece-of-crap PSP with its dead pixels. Systems should operate perfectly upon its launch. Those companies that sell defective technology should be fined.
That's stupid. Who came up with the whole 'Defective units should be expected on any launch' tangit? That's a load of crap. I have never noticed any such habbit with the launch of any Nintendo system. My DS works perfectly, and I bought that on launch. Just as does my Gamecube, and my Nintendo 64 before that. Not like that piece-of-crap PSP with its dead pixels. Systems should operate perfectly upon its launch. Those companies that sell defective technology should be fined.
Just wanted to add in my brother waited in line for nearly 10 hours only to get an Xbox 360 that doesn't even turn on... Lets just say its a bit disappointing.
I RETURNED my 360 :( Last night the Ring of Light flashes RED and crashed...no response, black screen. I tried disconnectiong/connecting it back in a hour and no luck.
I was told by Best Buy that I was the first to return and stores/forums like Electronics Boutique are scratching their heads about this RED Flashing/LED.
I saved the money, I have Call of Duty 2/Madden '06...when Microsoft responds to this "Crash" problem I will hold off.
Only morons buy and use anything by Microsoft.
So i suppose 99% of computer users are morons...In reply to #26's reply to me... microsoft gets all the hate from picky ppl like you because they are by far the biggest company in the software industry...if apple were that big, there would be a proportion of hackers dedicated to exposing its flaws as equal to microsoft's...same goes for linux. so stop bitching, #1 always gets flack...as for this, yes it sucks for ppl with defective 360s, but they are few...to anyone who comes up with a post such as 34's are pretty ignorant. I have had a lot of systems, and no problems INCLUDING my 360...now if you take the % of ppl that get defective units per console launch, even multiplying the probabily a few times based on having bought several consoles (64, gamecube, ds, etc), the percent is still so low that chances of a defective unit are unlikely. this is true for nintendo, microsoft, sony and anybody else. so stop bitching, those with problematic 360s are getting proper treatment from microsoft, so lay off.
Everyone here saying that these 360 crash reports are getting overblown by haters: I hope you apply the same logic to Apple, because they have their share of haters too.
To Whopping Wombat I'd like to say he seems he's getting a bit confused. I do use more than the three platforms you state and I'm just comparing which platform and software is always the one that gets into the way of doing the job fast. Your theory is simplistic. If MS products where so great, with the 90%+ market share they have had for a few years now, they would have already erradicated the contenders. If you just look at the business model of MS (never make the perfect product, nobody will buy the upgrades and extras), you'll see that the flaws are part of the reason the MS community is so big: it generates loads of jobs and money in the product support and development business, therefore reinforces the dedication of these professionals to the big house. I'm no fan boy, I'm just an MS non-fan boy. I do however agree with the rest of your post... ;-)
I really don't buy this 'isolated' incident line (you expect them to say anything less?), uncanny luck that 2 of my friends (now 3) had similar issues, isolated is one or two nuts here and there, this is a heavy volume, beyond the usual internet amplification. Say what you will about other products, but I have never seen crashes and freezes this frequent. But the real test will comes in when units are more available.
DVD drive issue, power supply issue and the resulting 'power cord' coverup. And confirmed house fire issues, for the first Xbox. I think, now, in the rush to get vamped up and beat Sony, quality control was the sacrificial lamb.
I personally feel the brick is defective, fanning it and the 'string theory' seemed to work (strangely), let us play COD2 for more than 30 minutes. And that brick is a toad, slick and sleek Xbox, but then this ugly monster of a cinder-concrete-block that might burn your house down unless you position it correctly. Cosmetically, it's a killer, and it might literally be a killer. Lawyers gotta be licking chops for this one, it's a pre-made ready-to-microwave class action, and they are but just out the door.
But good great lord, what is it with that DVD drive? Playing a movie, makes it rumble like a airplane taking off. Power supply and a bad DVD drive, just a redux of Xbox 1. But then those Red Light issues, not sure about those, could be hard drive issue? Friend in North Sacramento, just had that happen. 8 (lucky) people I know, only 2 had issues, but now increased to 3, better not be a trend.
Power supply theory: http://www.theikew.co.uk/2005/11/the_360_in_xbox.html
It seems unlikely that this is just limited to few angry people on the internet. Both yesterday and today I have seen people on local news stations reporting defective Xbox 360's. One news program showed an entire line of atleast 8 in a store with the sectors blinking red!
Despite the problems I'll be buying an XBOX 360. If there happens to be a problem with mine I'll send it in and have it repaired. Microsoft is promising to handle the problems quickly, which IMO is whats really important. While these problems shouldn't be occurring in the first place good customer service should quickly make this early hiccup a forgotten memory by the next holiday season.
The whole problem is that today's products are getting too overly-complicated. We've got cellphone/cameras/video cameras/MP3 players that runs on some craptastic operating system that only gets 6 months of testing if they are lucky. The same can be said for PDAs and even DVD players. Remember when DVD players did nothing but play DVDs? Now they have to have MP3/WMA support, play photo discs, divx, and some even have memory cards slots for viewing images and listening to audio files. Then there's that whole Hi-Def upconversion thing. The DVD player's operating system is no better than the one in your cellphone. Oftentimes, "less really IS more".