The new Mac mini -- with Front Row 2.0 and DVR?

It's on ThinkSecret, which means, of course, that we can't verify the information or its source, but now the rumor on top of the pile for things we might see at Macworld in January is that the Mac mini will be given a second life as a Front Row 2.0-bearing digital media hub — complete with DVR features. Apparently it'll also be an Intel Mac, and feature an iPod dock, in addition to receiving a larger (physically and logically) 3.5-inch drive — all of which would undoubtedly result in a more corpulent Mac mini. There are a lot of things we could (but won't) get into here, but we would like to take a moment to say that if Apple did want to get their foot in the door to the living room really quick n' easy, an Intel Mac mini + Front Row + DVR + iPod dock would be the way to do it. In fact, the only thing they'd probably have to worry about would be the low-margin mini really cannibalizing thes sales of their non-Intel, non-DVR higher-margin iMac and Power Mac products (at least for the time being). But again, this is all unconfirmed, so we'll ease up on ya.

[Thanks, Dave]

[acidreflux @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Word.

[Steven @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

"first post..."
What are we, 12 again?

Anyway, I can really see Apple doing the DVR thing. It would be very integrated with OSX, iTunes, iMovie, etc. which would make for a killer setup.

Let's hope they're doing stuff like that new Tivo/Yahoo thing (which shows the weather, movies, etc. without a hacked Tivo).

[JohnK @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

So far, there's been a rumour for an Intel version of pretty much the entire Mac lineup (bar the PowerMac). Has anyone from Apple slept in the last 12 months? They couldn't possibly update all those products in one go, I mean, there's only 24 hours in a day, unless Steve has managed to use his Reality Distortion Field on . I think Apple will more likely update from top down (again, not including the Power Mac line), so an Intel iMac with the DVR stuff, or a PowerBook rather than the iBook, otherwise who would buy a slower product that costs more? Unless, of course, the Intel gear isn't any faster than the PowerPC gear, which kinda defeats the purpose....

...Whatever goes, January will be a *very* interesting month!

[khamel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

i am entirely anti-mac. but if they actually do come out with a mac mini that can replace my tivo sans monthly costs and with more customized options, id be really interested. i love my modded xbox but this could be the best of all worlds. keep it cheap enough that its worth yet another computer and you've got yourself a quasi-convert.

[Steven should die @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

--
"first post..."
What are we, 12 again?
--

What are we, an asshole? I do believe so.

[Jacob Varghese @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Keep it cheap and you have a huge hit on your hands. I think that Front Row will have to be integrated with iTunes. iTunes needs to be the cornerstone application for their media strategy. The iPod dock is a smart move.

[Edmond Ng @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Apple would never make a DVR because of the iTunes movie store. The only thing I see coming would be Front Row (which probably will become standard OSX affair).

[adam @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

uhh i got the first post and hell yeah, i actually am 12 so go and have a hip replacement you grumpy old man! (directed at #3)

[Steven @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

""first post..."
What are we, 12 again?
--

What are we, an asshole? I do believe so."

*yawn* Looks like I was wrong. You're probably not even 10.

[Tom Cody @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

The mini is the perfect first candidate for the Intel switch since very few users will run Pro Apps on it and it shares many component with the iBook. Don't think for a moment that Apple just started working on the Intel transistion last July. They have had a version of OSX running in Intel for years.
Think Secret is the best of all Mac Rumor sites so I am inclined to believe this.

[Craig @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

i'm with steven. "first posters" suck

[Steven should die @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

--
""first post..."
What are we, 12 again?
--

What are we, an asshole? I do believe so."

*yawn* Looks like I was wrong. You're probably not even 10.
--

Actually, this isn't "adam." I am simply someone who is bored at work, browsing Engadget and toying with the many douchebags such as yourself that feel the need to enlarge their ePenis by commenting on posts and trying to insult others by way of age insults.

[dan warriner @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

good point 7 ... i have a feelin think secret is dreamin a bit, but there's no doubt in the front row standard...its only a matter of time

[Big Bill @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

The truth-- it's "asteroid". The no-show add-on product that caused all the rumor site lawsuits.

http://www.studio2f.com/misc/2005/01/12mac_mini_less_is_more.php

[Big Bill @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

The truth-- it's "asteroid". The no-show add-on product that caused all the rumor site lawsuits.

http://www.studio2f.com/misc/2005/01/12mac_mini_less_is_more.php

[Your name (required) @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

How about we stop the thread hijacking and get back on topic.

I would be in for a new mac mini if it really is a front row equiped DVR. I think it is too soon though for apple to do this though. As JohnK said above there are only a certain number of hours in a day and it seems like the port to intel would take a lot of time. Granted my thoughts are pure speculation but I don't think Apple could get all that done by January.

[Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

This makes too much sense which means apple probably won't do it.

[Michael C @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

I could see a Mac DVR working for Apple, despite iTunes. The Mac DVR would make video to go on the iPod seamless, which gives people all the more reason to rush out and buy an(other) iPod.

Then besides the iPod, it could give you an actual high quality video for viewing on tv's/monitors.

[Jimbob @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

a mac mini with built in optical audio out would be wicked - CD/DVD/VCR all in one + multi-channel output to your stereo. + Front Row etc :) (I know you can get digital sound out via airport express and so forth, but if its on my shelf, I don't want all that other stuff.

[khamel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

actually, wasn't this supposed to be the year of HD?

[royalh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Note to Apple (and to any other potential stand-alone DVR hardware manufacturer): If it doesn't have an internal ASTC/QAM tuner (preferably two) and cablecard support, don't bother. Yes, I have faith that Apple could produce some really kickass DVR software, but without the hardware to support recording, it's just another cobbled together solution. A Mac mini with Front Row does not a DVR make.

[Daniel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

I have never owned a mac, but 3 laptops and 1 desktop all under 2 years old.
I do not know why I have not brought a mac yet, the mac mini could be a good option to start into the mac world.

[stevekim @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

I'm with Tom Cody (post #10). An Intel-powered Mini would be a great switch machine. PC users get to keep all their peripherals, and maybe (hopefully) even make a dual-boot OSX/Windows machine. Then throw in something like FrontRow and a DVR app to cement in the switch to OSX.

[damian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Well said #21. The other problem with all these standalones is that their integration with satellite is awful compared to a DirecTivo box; cablecard isn't designed to work with satellite either.

[calc.exe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

If Apple beats Microsoft with support for CableCARD + HD, I'll switch. No more cable boxes please.

[Joe Smith @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

What the fuck, steven, hatin on a kid. yeah, you think you look older when you flame others but you're nothing but half a fucking man. Go to hell.

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

yup been there done that Apple playing catchup to Microsoft.

I have a 300GB drive recording my TV shows and I can expand to 1TB if I want to

I have 4 tuners (3analog and 1HD) using the registry hack I can increase to 6 tuners if I want

my program guide is free, media center ui is awsome and media center is stable

i get pictures,videos,download movies

what can the minihub do again??

[db @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

"a more corpulent Mac mini"
Hmm... the return of the G4 "Cube"?

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

can't wait for the Apple Minimedia hub

propietary hardware
propietary music (only Itunes)
propietary media device (only Ipod)
propietary videos (only quicktime)
propietary price (expensive)

sounds great where do I sign up?

[Zorglub @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

> propietary hardware

well that's what a mac has been up until now, otherwise it would have been called a pc.

> propietary music (only Itunes)

Apple developed iTunes but there is no reason why other companies cannot have music solution for Mac. Apple hasnt said you can use anything else.

> propietary media device (only Ipod)

Same thing. Apple sells the IPod but there is no reason why a company making another kind of mp3 player cant make it compatible with the mac. The truth is that Apple has got so much margin is because hardware and software makers have ignored the Mac platform for years. This allowed free reign for Apple and then they crossed over to the pc platform.

> propietary videos (only quicktime)

uh? Even Microsoft provides a version of Windows Media Player for mac. And with VLC you can watch all sorts of video formats.

> propietary price (expensive)

uh? actually for what comes included in a mac the prices are not bad at all. Plus you get a very nice looking machine. Of course if that's not your priority you dont have to get one but it does look like you have to get your facts straight as so far your complaints have all been a miss.

[Benson Leung @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Not Quicktime... H.264 and MPEG4 are anything but proprietary.

[martin Cinzar @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

WOW 27,28,29 stop the hatin'. Sounds like Microsoft's got a group of paid fanboys. Seen em lot's of places.
This is a great idea for Apple, They can do it and most likely will do it. And when they do if it is as rock solid as iTunes software I will definitely look into buying one. As for the DRM arguments, they only work if you ignore all the facts, such as mp3 encoding a track yourself. And the proprietary media device. I only ask if yours MP3 player company will be around in a year. They seem to be dropping like flies.
Don't bet against Steve Jobs he's been batting almost a 1000 since 1997. When they "catch up" how far behind it will they leave Microsoft?

[Jason @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

pat.. you seem to be misinformed.

The new iMac mini is said to be Apple's first Intel Mac. Since when is Intel proprietary hardware? All the connectors are standard, and it should run Windows XP and Vista {although not confirmed}.

An Apple Intel iMac mini with OSX and Windows... that's like 2 computers in one! Seems like a deal since it only costs maybe 30% more than a whitebox.

[Ken @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Where's the TV Tuner, kinda hard to be a dvr without one?

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

respond to 32

can I take off the shelf parts and put together my own mac mini and then buy a oem copy of the os with front row?

I can with media center

[Alex @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

I switched to Mac last week after using a PC for the last 15 years, and I absolutely love it. The only thing that has be down is that I am sans MCE. If these rumors are true, and if this thing has cable card support, I am going to be very, very happy.

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Hmmm... the mini is perfect for stacking...

What if asteroid is a mini-sized look-alike that stacks nicely on top of a mini? It could have one or two CATV inputs, plus an s-video and composite input, optical audio in/out, HDMI and component input for connecting that new HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVD. Throw in HDMI and component output for good measure. Sounds like a winner to me!

Sure beats a suitcase-sized Windows MCE blower. Oh, speaking of proprietary technologies, M$ is no different than Apple, MCE records shows in proprietary Windows Media format.

[Whiplash @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Adam, Steven! Do I have to seperate you two?

:)

Anyway, knowing Apple, they probably started designing the new hardware a few years ago and very well could announce a boatload of Intel macs in January. I kinda don't think they will though. They'll start with the consumer machines first, and move the high end ones over when all the pro apps go native. Pro audio/video users will not upgrade simply to have the next cool thing. They want power, and emulation is not going to give them that.

Wth regards to the post #29, the reason Windows Media hasn't really taken off is because with a device like this, people want to turn it on and just HAVE IT WORK. Just like Tivo does. You will never get that with a Microsoft box. Apple has the best chance of making this work because they own the whole box from Hardware to OS to App.

[Shape @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

The last time front row came up ( http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000967068491/ ), people said it didn't need to have a DVR, TV tuners are dead, simplicity, blah, blah...

Now it comes up again and the next version might have a DVR and now it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Apple can do no wrong. :-) Steve has done a good job, that is for sure.

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

hey 33

your kidding right? "MS Fan Boys"

The Apple crowd is the most thick headed bunch trolls I have ever seen in forums

They think Steve Jobs if god, the OSx is the best operating system ever created and the IPOD is the best media player hands down and they will not what so ever ever deny otherwise.

What I see is one company and only one company offering a hardware solution (the mini) and I see one company and only one company offering the media player which is locked into only one place where music can be downloaded and the OS comes with a builtin photo program, a builtin movie program a built in movie editing program and a builtin music program.

BUT NO WAY ARE THEY PROPIETRARY OR A MONOPOLY RIGHT? Nope how can they don't even think that right?

All I am saying is I have a media center PC with 3 media extenders, I have 4 TV tuners which allows me to watch 1 show while recording 3 other shows, I can even record OTA HDTV, I am not limited what so ever by storage as I can add oodles and oodles of storage on the fly, I can rip DVD's to my drives and stream them through my MC, I have tons and tons of third party apps, the UI absolutley blows away Front Row, I can download movies like VOD, I can grab pictures and videos from anyh PC in my house I can watch TV in 3 other rooms with the extenders and it even has plugins for home automation?

Whats the name of that Apple thingy again thats coming out soon? When it does it will be very wet behind the ears of a very stable third generation media center 2005

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

hey 44

my uptime on my media center is going on 4 weeks now, I brought it down the install my HD tuner card.

Its funny I don't run a firewall, virus software or antispyware and I have never had a problem because I don't surf the internet with it.

So for your earlier comment, it just needs to work?

Sorry mine does just fine

[Corey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

"Wth regards to the post #29, the reason Windows Media hasn't really taken off is because with a device like this, people want to turn it on and just HAVE IT WORK. Just like Tivo does. You will never get that with a Microsoft box"

That's not true at all, UltimateTV was an excellent (and stable!)product, despite running a version of Windows. In alot of ways it was more user-friendly than tivo, in alot of ways it was not. It certainly wasn't hackable like tivo, though :)

As far as an apple DVR, I reserve judgement until seen...

[virtualalex @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

What I, personally, would like to see the most is this with a hi-fi component footprint (~17" wide) so that it looks good and fits in with all my other HT gear.

[Rick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Pat, you are an idiot. Apple has never been a monopolistic company; Microsoft has. Apple produces its own hardware and software (like Sun), so of course it has every right to place whatever software it wants on its own computers. Microsoft, on the other hand, produces only software and has strong-armed hardware manufacturers like Dell into providing only Windows software. Furthermore, Microsoft (until only recently) used its monopolistic stranglehold on the OS market to compel users to run only IE and Media Player.

You say you have a media center PC with lots of attachments. In my opinion, you are a Microsoft whore, you have no life, and you don't enjoy thinking for yourself.

Lest you think I am an Apple fanboy, let me say that I have not used a Mac in over 10 years. I work largely on Unix but use Windows for playing games every so often (the only thing that Windows is good for).

[pat @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

46

so when ms tries to include a media player in there OS thats wrong?

apple includes a media player thats right?

MS was court ordered by the EU to remove the media player from windows now called XPn

guess what? Nobody bought it or cared about it.

Apple does not strong arm anybody? Then why can't I purchase music from another company? It can only be ITUNES.

Any I am not a MS whore and I do have a life, I am just getting so sick and tired day in day out reading forums about how Microsoft can't doing anything right and Apple is God and can do no wrong?

Media Center pound for pound is a living room juggernaut and is a great application, I do wish it did not require Windows XP and could run in embedded mode like the new LG DVD recorder but better with more functionality.

I guess I have to wait for Apple to come out with there new media hub so the press can say, WOW APPLE has done it again, this thing is awsome nobody comes even close to this, Jobs will say it is revolutionary and the trolls will fill the forums with praise

ok 46 you UNIX slut

[mingistech @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Windows Media Center Edition sux a$$.

Like all MS products.... MCE is unstable, buggy, and needs rebooting ALL THE TIME.

Trust me.... i ran it for a year till i switched to MythTV.

[mike @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

so when ms tries to include a media player in there OS thats wrong?

apple includes a media player thats right?

--

apple's can be taken out

[Shape @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

mingistech,

I don't know what was wrong with your Media Center 2005 (2004? 2003?) box, but the only problem I have with mine is that sometimes my HDTV antenna loses its signal. I'm more likely to blame it on the rain or snow, but you are free to blame Bill Gates if you want. ;-)

Why, exactly, did you have to reboot all the time?

[bhaalspawn @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Sorry let's just refresh here. The agument is that you can't see any reason to use media centre over apple's media offering. Well good for you but the ordinary user ins' a geek. They don't even know what a AVQ tuner whatever is or an extender or any of that ****.

They want something that works everytime, that they don't have to buy extra stuff for, that doesn't have to be constantly virus scanned every five minutes and doesn't come with a remote that you could use to wiegh down a dead body.

Remember most people aren't geeks. The few that are can continue to use windows media centre, the rest of us who know how utterly poor windows is compared to OS X will wait for January.

[mingistech @ Dec 19th 2005 12:56AM]

Shape

The UI slows down the longer it runs. To the point that it's unusable. Or it just locks up all together.

I don't blame Bill Gates. I blame his shotty b-team of programers.

But I do understand they are fighting an uphill battle, building it on an unstable OS.