Microsoft says that only 3% of Xbox 360s are defective
Joystiq is reporting that despite the buzz surrounding defective Xbox 360s, Microsoft claims that only 3% of the units sold have been faulty, which is below the industry average. Assuming that Microsoft's numbers are accurate, it would seem that all the online drama about melting 'boxs and deadly error messages can likely be attributed to the fact that early adopters tend to be outspoken in forums and don't represent the general public. In other 360 news, analyst P.J. McNealy speculates that between 300,000 and 400,000 of the consoles have been sold so far, and MS would have "sold another million if they could have. They just don't have them." So to wrap things up, the 360 probably works right, but it's a moot point 'cause the only way you'll get to play one is at Wal-Mart.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Chu Chu @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
If you believe microsoft the nunber is 3%.
If you believe the people on the forums its 15%.
As usual with these sorts of situations the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Baumann @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
All I know is that if mine was one of the 3%, it'd seem like a rather large number to me.
KB @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
I don't play video games by any means and could care less about the Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo fueds but since when did 3% of manufactured XBox's to be defective was a "good" percent? Thats actually AWFUL. Is this what U.S. quality control standards have come down to?
everrette powell @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
i have no idea if in fact they are telling the truth, but what i am sure of is that mines is defective my brother's and my best friend's is also defective and if in fact it is three percent we all must have the worst luck
Chu Chu @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
KB it's a commodity entertainment device. I'm pretty sure 5% or so is pretty common in the industry. If you want to drive that number down you have to be prepared to shell out a lot more $$$ to cover for all the extra costs associated with additional QA/testing/etc.
falcom @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
I actually believe Microsoft on this for the time being. I'm on the second shipment, along with a buddy and I fully expect a functional unit. I've asked the sales people at 4 different EB/Gamestop stores now if they have both A) heard of the issue, and B) have hand many complaints. The answer is always the same, A) yes, of course they heard of it, and B) No, i think one store had one complaint about something not really related to the 'horror' stories on the forums. Yet another person added that these stories have actually originated from Sony fanboys on sony forums to spoil the 360's party. 3% might be a low estimate, probably closer to 5% with a +-2% margin of error allowed and they market it on the -2% side for obvious PR reasons, hence the 3%. If my 360, as well as my 3 friends are all defective, then i will change my view, but for now it stands at that. Its the conclution that makes sense to me. I will however be buying the 2 year extended warranty, just in case.
PS
I have never seen any demo system in any store crash while running and they are on 12+hrs a day. I honestly doubt the demo units are more heavily tested then retail units and probably come off the same line.
Kurt @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Umm it is 3% for a brand new electronic device that is below the industry standard and last time I checked the industry is not predominantly U.S. quality control.
hedghogz @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
They seem to have appeared in the UK today - PC World opened until midnight tonight and had a nice big pile of boxes in a display. Except nobody was buying them. Oh dear.
Osiris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
It may seem more than 3% because those that do have a problem are more likely to talk about it than those that are happily gaming away.
I think 3% is a reasonable number.
Alucard @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Number 4, I don't know what the industry standard is for gaming console, but compared to desktop computers 3% is far below the average failure rate. The Xbox is essentially just a media computer that hooks up to a TV. I found out this summer while working at a tech place that the average failure rate of individual components was roughly around ~30%. Though I'm not sure if these Xbox defects are due to failing hardware, or if it's a software problem.
Alucard @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Sorry, Number 3*.
guadamole stain @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
that's crazy.
man it's raining outside.
Darth Abe @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
"They jusy dont have them."
typo
salid @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
here are some numbers.
Microsoft said 3 Million in 90 days.
Defective 3% to 5% for 3 Million
90000 to 150000 units.
if every one buy extended warranty, 3 million units, 10% of the base system (xbox360 core $300) $30. 90 million dollars
replacing the defective units
27 million to 45 million.
hey there is still 45 million profit in extended warranty
James @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
#6,
I've seen a crashed demo unit at BB. Given, it crashed before I got there, the 3 red lights were obvious.
I've also seen a crashed GameCube demo unit the other day at Fry's.
haloman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
KB, "Is this what U.S. quality control standards have come down to" - given that no electronics are actually manufactured in the US, this statement is asinine. If anything, the US company accepts a 3-5% defect rate, AFTER they receive the shipments from overseas which have "passed" the manufacturing plants own quality standards. Seems to be more of a reflection of poor processes in Asian countries than here.
haloman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
salid - Microsoft sees no profits from extended warranties. They are solely the product of the retailer.
Sarah @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
KB first if you ever take a product quality class in an engineering dicipline 3% failure is an excellent number (based on six sigma and other methods that I would have to dig out my stats book for) and second it is not US quality control. The units are being produced overseas. MS just made the first few, worked the major bugs out and shipped them off for some mass production facility to make.
torkhum @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
MS knew that the 360 would sell like candy and the purposely release too few numbers-now each one is running about 800 a piece on ebay...
what the hell? almost every electronic device made has its glitches and technical problems -not all but perhaps 1-10%.
360 is no exception. but only to release limited number of 360 on the market waiting for it for months -MS should be ashamed of pulling this sort of stunt to get the 360 more hype and sell each one of them when they send more shipments to stores.
maybe bill is thinking every house should have a 360?
shadekh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
wehave a new system which has been hyped to th heavens, but turns out to be defective for a small percentage, a normal occurence. However, if i had a defective xbox, after standing in a long line and spending tons of money on bundles and all, i would shriek to high heaven in every forum. So i guess the defective percentage is around 5%, still rather high but not really unexpected.
Craig @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
well, I wonder how many how many are still hidden in mom and dad's closet...
acarzt @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Well if you do the math 3% of the 300,000-400,000 is 9,000-12,000 defective units And like stated earlier more people are going to complain about a defect than come on here and rave about how great it is. Also, when electronics have a defect, they tend to be in batches... so if you got a defective one... it's likely that other people who bought from the same area as you will have a defective one.
No 9,000-12,000 sound like an awful large number of defects but there are 291,000-388,000 working units. If you got a defect then sucks for you, you're gonna get a new one you'll just have to wait no big deal.
Me @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Bill Gates is defective.
acarzt @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Well if you do the math 3% of the 300,000-400,000 is 9,000-12,000 defective units And like stated earlier more people are going to complain about a defect than come on here and rave about how great it is. Also, when electronics have a defect, they tend to be in batches... so if you got a defective one... it's likely that other people who bought from the same area as you will have a defective one.
No 9,000-12,000 sound like an awful large number of defects but there are 291,000-388,000 working units. If you got a defect then sucks for you, you're gonna get a new one you'll just have to wait no big deal.
Blacknimbus @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
When Steve Jobs tells customers that scratches on their new ipod are their fault, the same people lining up to castigate Microsoft jump to his defense. It's time to grow up and live in the real world...the market sorts out the winners and losers. And there is a reason MS keeps making piles of cash, like it or not.
wxrman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Aren't you glad Microsoft doesn't make heart pace makers!
KB @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Sarah/Haloman, I have taken my "product quality control" classes or whatever you want. I have interned at GE. Six sigma is 3.4 defective for every million, not 100. As far as U.S. quality standards, my point being that these systems SHOULD be inspected in the U.S.(not sure if they are, don't know how Microsoft operates). If they are boxed and deployed into the U.S. mainstream without quality control, this is a U.S. quality control problem, not China's or wherever they are made. This is the reason why Japanese companies are leagues ahead. This is a U.S. system, be it made here or there. It will sell primarily here unlike Sony and Nintendo products. If 400,000 units have actually already sold, what is that, 12,000 defective? I just don't get how that is even remotely acceptable. It's going to be a crappy X-mas for 12,000 spoiled brats.
umrain @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
3% means 1 in every 33 units is bad. that sounds rather poor to me.
Don Wilson @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
The only time I've =seen= a problem with the xbox was during NBA Live and it was obviously the game's problem because I couldn't pass the ball to the opponent. My friend said he saw a black screen, but I'm not sure on that.
Fire Hazard @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
One of my buds in my home town bought a 360, had to camp out at wal-mart to get it and it is defective... It just freezes up a lot.
Another friend of mine emailed me yesterday and said that he was testing a 360 for work and wanted to know if I wanted to come over and play. Of course I did, I got there and the 360 was locked up. He said it had been that way all night; get about 15 min outa it then it freezes. He had taken and suspended the power supply like the forums said but it didn't seem to help. The only game he had for it was NFS: most wanted which I have for original xbox and it never freezes. I felt of the power supply and it was slightly warm, not much air flow from those tiny vents in the front and back. I felt of the 360 witch was stood up tower style and it was fairly warm but not alarmingly warm. My Pentium Mobile laptop gets hotter then the 360 but then again the 360 has better air flow. I could here the fans in the 360, they are noticeably loud and sound like crapy sleeved fans with a deviating sound. We tried to play on it for a few more hours but it just froze up so much it was insane!
I was very disappointed in the 360 and I am a hard core xbox fan. The graphics look incredible comparing NFS: most wanted to original but the freezing up problem means I wont be buying one at launch, I think I will wait till version 2.
Joe @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
I really think its higher than 3%. I personaly haven't bought 1, but 2 of my friends have and 1 of them are defective and the other says his has crashed a couple of times. I've heard 16% which seems high. I'm guessing around 5-10% is defective. Sony will own all! Its snowing ;)
tiuk @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
#4 everrette powell, if 3% are defective, and between 300,000 and 400,000 were old (let's call it 350,000 for the sake of argument), that means there are 10,500 defective units. It's not at all implausible for the three units that you know of to be defective. Hell, since you all probably live in the same region, I'd say there's a better chance of all three being defective than just one.
Sarah @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
KB I didn't say they reached a six sigma approval, but the "six sigma" method shows how to determine acceptable failure percentages. The aerospace industry - and GE is definitly a major player there - does uphold a six sigma failure rate (or better, where I work); whereas industries that provide a product that doesn't need as high a factor of safety - like if it fails no people will be injured - can get by with just 3 sigma (http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/80/04714154/0471415480.pdf) and if indeed MS is at only 3% they are doing better than three sigma. Yes, in a perfect world we would all want everything to work perfectly, but its not.
Nick @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
You people carping about QC processes don't sound like you have any real experience in it.
- very small possibility that a computer/console manufactured and packaged in Asia would get deboxed and re-tested in the US. Waste of time and money.
- if the consoles are being made in Asia and tested then packaged in the US, it's a huge waste of money on a product they are already selling under cost.
- if Microsoft isn't involved in the Asian factory's QC processes then they are remiss. They should at least review QC plan documents and do on-site inspections of the processes (this assumes MS knows anything about hardware manufacturing processes).
Sarah said:
>>MS just made the first few, worked the major bugs out and shipped them off for some mass production facility to make.<<
This is probably fallacious. Do you know what it takes to proto a computer? It takes a fully-capable manufacturing line -- and that costs money to set up and run. It's far easier a nd less expensive to set up one line in Asia and then run the protos from there. To make the protos in the US, Microsoft would have had to contract a local assembly house because doing it in-house would be vastly expensive to purchase the necessary assembly equipment.
To the person who said "Is this what U.S. quality control standards have come down to" -- your statement is NOT asinine. US companies that do manufacturing in Asia SHOULD keep an eye on QC, not just proto the thing and hand it off to mass production you have no control over.
Sarah @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
KB I didn't say they reached a six sigma approval, but the "six sigma" method shows how to determine acceptable failure percentages. The aerospace industry - and GE is definitly a major player there - does uphold a six sigma failure rate (or better, where I work); whereas industries that provide a product that doesn't need as high a factor of safety - like if it fails no people will be injured - can get by with just 3 sigma (http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/80/04714154/0471415480.pdf) and if indeed MS is at only 3% they are doing better than three sigma. Yes, in a perfect world we would all want everything to work perfectly, but its not.
meshcount @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Someone just posted on Craigslist about how a 360 at Circuit City caught on fire as he was playing a game:
http://forums.craigslist.org/?act=Q&ID=36011346
matt @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
OMG WTF s0Ny PWNS The xb0x36o!! wtf STFU!!!
js @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Does the 3% account for the number of black screen of death occurring in Xbox 360 units?
Tank @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
I don't really trust Microsoft's numbers anymore after Windows ME ... they said the operating system had no apparent flaws and the crashing of the computers was from incompatible software and regulations not being followed by developers. Nine months later Microsoft finally admitted that there was a major problem effecting the entire OS. I'm looking at the consumer report percentages before I make final judgement on my purchasing or not ... I do now that every Xbox 360 demo unit I have played (5 to be exact) has frozen up, or in the Madison, WI Wal-Marts case it interferes with the stores printers and photo lab and causes the system to crash. In summation, I do not believe Microsoft's numbers at all. It is my personal belief that MS, (in classic MS manner) rushed through the R&D to put out their product first. I am a fan of the original Xbox and am not an Sony Fanboy / Xbox basher ... But things just don't add up to me.
... Now I sit and wait for the fanboy name calling and obscenities ...
Best Regards,
Tank
Tim @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Guess I'll speak up on behalf of my pricey purchase. My 360 is running perfectly. Call of Duty 2 is awesome, but a bit short.
Michael @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
That statement is about as comforting as Sony telling me that dead pixels on my Sony PSP are no big deal.
I had a friend get hurt in a retail store by dumb asses trying to get this piece of crap console. She wasn't even one of the insane idiots in the store trying to get one.
I hate this console, I hate the ridiculous price inflation that Microsoft obviously does not seem to care about in regards to its selected retailers.
I hope this console and the Nazi party in Redmond all crash!
KB @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Nick, thanks for the backing up.
To give you guys an example, many bicycle companies manufacture their entire product lines in Taiwan. The downfall is that the QC over there is almost non-existant in this industry unless someone is constantly watching over them with testing of random variability. The companies who strive to have the best reputation and customer service have paid the extra amount for second or third point inspections. The even smarter ones go through a QC process here in the U.S. after they have received the shipment. The outcome? More sales, more dependable product, better customer feedback, higher net earnings, more $$ for R&D. In the end, its in the company's best interest to have several points of inspection, be it that they eat costs at first because the return in the long run will be much higher. I'm not trying to say that Microsoft should aim to win the Deming Prize, but try not to be satisfied with 3%. If I were the Operations Manager, I'd consider that absolutely lousy.
Wes Garner @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Michael: just wanted to mention your comment about msft's price inflation... they are loosing money on the console, not making money
Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
Sony Fanboys and the Mainstream media inflate those numbers. You cannot name a console in the last 25 years that hasnt had 1 or 2 problems or inconviences. the PS2 had the "disk read error", the Xbox 1 had the Thompson DVD Drive, and the cartridges had to be blown into every few days or months so that they would play. A few problems is a given.
Lou Diamonds @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
*Raises Hand* I WAS one of the 3% :(
I dying to play Call of Duty 2 again and waiting for the second shipment. I have no problems returning it if it fails *crosses finger* *knock on wood* LOL
Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
"I hate this console, I hate the ridiculous price inflation that Microsoft obviously does not seem to care about in regards to its selected retailers."
Yes, Price inflation on an item that costs 4 to 5 hundred dollars to produce is really price inflation.
Rich @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
#6 I have seen two xbox 360 crashes in one trip to see it in action. One at Best Buy and one Circuit City. The people at BestBuy didn't even seem bothered as they didn't fix it in the 30 minutes I was in the store. I wasnt going to buy, i just wanted to see the graphics. Bummer.
ptrix @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
cll me an armchair economist, but i'm thinking that it could be reasoned that given tht M$ knows they're already losing money on each console sold, that they really don't have much motivation to really do anything about the high number of xBox 360s that are failing.
In the end, all that this sitution proves, is that in the end, M$ doesn't really give a sh!t about their customers, as long as they either get some substantial amount of money out of us, get their products into our homes, or get their foot in our doors in some other way. customer satisfction be damned, there are wallets to empty, right? >:(
Andrew Eller @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
I work at a Best Buy and our demo unit broke 3 days after intial set up.
Ben @ Dec 19th 2005 2:38AM
crazy people... if your Xbox breaks your idiots... my neighbors hasnt had ANY heat given off at all and im getting mine in march. so you guys need to learn how to take care of your stuff... and #47 no wonder bestbuy is so expensive.