Linux hackers: the L in Linksys's WRT54GL is for "Linux"
By Ryan Block 
posted Dec 3rd 2005 10:00PM
posted Dec 3rd 2005 10:00PM
Hey man, why fight the tide? Linksys saw that they have something in that ever popular WRT54G of theirs (apparently they sell hundreds of thousands per month, which we totally believe), and after changing up their hardware in the their series 5 WRT54G, they've decided to continue making the Linux-friendly series 4 under the WRT54GL badge. You can thank them with further sales of these devices, Linux nerds — now let's see you guys whip up a nice frontend for OpenWRT, yeah?
Ok first of all they are selling the WRT54GL for 20$ more then the good old v4 G !!! we are getting ripped off.
They also cut the flash and RAM in half on their latest v4 GS and are selling it at the SAME price !!
Why is everyone puttin a positive spin on this when all that linksys did is charge MORE for LESS !
WOW
Adi
it's better than nothing, adi
The positive spin is because a company is OPENLY SUPPORTING A HACKER COMMUNITY. They could have simply pulled the device, altered the hardware to break existing hacks and called it a day. Instead the embraced the thriving community of people who love to hack the WRT54G. Shut up. This is a good first step.
I agree with the first poster.
They are doing this because they quietly switched the firmware from open source to absolutely worthless VxWare in v5, cut the RAM and flash in half--basically changed the product into a junk router. A huge amount of recent amazon.com reviews reflect the backlash. This one sums up the story pretty well:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1GWLHT83J98FN/ref=cm_pdp_home_reviews/103-5327204-4594245?%5Fencoding=UTF8
So yeah, they're releasing their old v4 and charging $20. It's nice that v4 is available again, but this is probably a business decision pure and simple: They're milking the respected WRT54G model number with the crappy cutrate VxWare version, and for those who know better they're making $20 more for the exact same tech that was in v4.
According to the article on linuxdevices.com, the memory is not cut in half on the Linux version:
"The L model will continue to offer 4MB of Flash, and 16MB of RAM, in order to support the various freely and commercially available alternative firmware images for the devices that depend on those memory capacities. "
#1 Creds to you - Damn right Linksys is hozin' us!
I JUST bought a standard WRT54G with v5 firmware. NOT hackable, and slowed my whole Internet down to modem speeds (dropped from 600kps d/l to 60kps -- no kidding). Fortunately, I returned it and found a box with a v4 -- the last hackable standard WRT54G that actually WORKS in the first place.
So if you want a linux flashable version of the WRT54G, and don't wanna pay extra for the "L" -- get a v4, serial number starting CDFA (whereas EVIL version 5 serials start with CDFB). Must go to a brick/morter like Best Buy, but at least you can still get 'em.
What an all around disaster this is for old-hat linksys users like myself.
-Pie
You are all forgetting that Linksys makes the best router in the world (Linksys is Cisco's home/end user division). So they are charging a little more than before--so what? Your still getting seriously good hardware for dirt cheap. In fact, with all the improvements to the router with the community-built Firmwares you are saving yourself over insane amounts of money. Half the features on Sveasoft's firmware come directly from commercial-grade routers that sell for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. With a simple flash, your router went from a very good $80 router to a ridiculously awesome $80 router. And if you don't like the added features (admittedly, it's not as stable for some--but not myself personally) then you simply reflash. Done. Back to the 'stable' Linksys firmware.
I personally think this is a Good Thing(TM), and Linksys should be applauded for their efforts. If more companies would focus on making their hardware as good as it can be, and NOT on sucking every last dime out of their customer base *cough*microsoft&apple*cough* then the computing world would be a better place.
Linksys router: $80
Fedora Core 5: Free from Internet
Sveasoft Firmware: 20 a year
Not relying on a giant corporate entity who's sole purporse is to make money for any of your computing needs: Priceless.
Some things money can buy. For everything else, there is Linux. Embrace the Penguin!
Re: # 6...
"You are all forgetting that Linksys makes the best router in the world (Linksys is Cisco's home/end user division)."
Draw unfounded conclusions much?
I don't know why so many people think Linksys is so great. I bought a WRT54G, and had to return it for another one within a week because it just stopped working. I did some research and found droves of people having the same problems, as well as other, weirder problems. It's not even strictly confined to certain revisions of it.
The one I had replaced has just started acting like crap, 6 months down the line. It completely stops working, no packets get in or out, until you reset it, and BAM instantly it works again.
I'd love to just get my money back, but I can't. I'm never touching another Linksys product again. I just bought a dlink DI-524. All it has to do is not screw up too badly, so my expectations aren't very high.
I won't be concerned about Linksys when the Netgear WGT634U support is finalised. 8MB Flash, a whopping 32MB RAM but best of all a USB 2.0 slot. Stick a flash memory stick or USB2.0 external HDD into that baby. Looking forward to running asterix and voicemail on that.
A front end? For Linux? You must be joking. Linux is about as front end friendly as a the front end of a rhino.
Re #1 and #3, the GS has twice the memory as the G. The GS has the speedbooster, which might explain why they needed to add extra memory to the device. WRT54GL implies that it would be based on the G model, and thus not have double the memory that the GS model has.
That aside -- besides Sveasoft and OpenWRT, what else is there in terms of firmware for the device? I'd like to hack up my router to enable VPN access...
Staples had the WRT54G for $30 after rebate. Unfortunately most of the units were v5. Then I found a v4 at a CompUSA for $40 AR. I looked around some more... BestBuy, Radio Shack, other Staples and CompUSA. Most carry the v5 but a few had v4 and some even v3!
The moral of the story is that if you look around you'll find the older versions.
On another note FWIW I've had a WRT54GS flashed with Sveasoft basic for over 2 years - I've never had any problems with it.
#11: check out dd-wrt.com The dd-wrt firmware started as an off shoot of Sveasoft's firmware, but is free, has readily avalible source code, and has more functionality. It is also updated frequently and has support for several devices.
1) Current version of OpenWrt (White Russian RC4) includes web-based user interface (webif) by default.
2) You are welcome to try out my humble AJAX-based GUI for OpenWrt available here:
http://lazutkin.com/blog/2005/nov/27/openwrt-gui-alpha-released/
If you like to watch pretty pictures before trying, they are available as well:
http://lazutkin.com/blog/2005/oct/26/openwrt_gui_screencast_and_screenshots/
I bought one of those routers and found it to be a piece of crap so I sold it in a yard sale. Bought a D-link instead and it works great. I will never buy a Linksys product again!
#11, i repeat cause you seem not to understand :
the GS USED to have double the RAM and flash as the G. However, the latest version, v4 has the exact same size as the plain old v4 G and yet linksys is selling it for the same freakin price as before !!
Also, with the proper third party firmware, the speedbooster crap can be activated on the G model as well and is independent of the flash and RAM size.
Take note.
Adi
#6, wow, you're either a linux fanboy or you're blind. Let me repeat this again :
Linksys is selling the EXACT same router for 20$ more ! And you're telling me you see nothing wrong with that ??? Cause, if you don't well gimme that 20$ since it doesn't seem like you need it..
Adi
While I agree that the WRT54GL would be much better with old WRT54GS v3.0 hardware (8MB Flash and 32MB RAM) I cannot fault linksys/cisco for working toward reducing manufacturing costs on consumer products. Every does this, take a look at the revisions of the xbox or PS/2 for example most of the modifications are made in order to reduce production costs.
I also can't fault them for charging a bit more for the "hacker" friendly model, I'm guessing their support costs are higher as I can guarantee they have people who brick them and just return them to stores for an exchange on a regular basis.
That said for the extra $20 it would be nice if they at least offered additional Flash and RAM space over the current WRT54G v4 models.
For all you people who think everything should be free, you have to keep in mind business is business these guys are doing what they do to make a profit, not because their your best friends.
#19, They're NOT reducing their costs ! They're selling the same thing for more ! They're charding more for the same thing ! I can't state this enough, am i the only one who sees this ??
Adi
Nerds! You're all NERDS!
#19, ahh, yes, it's for their profits. My apologies, Linksys, what a misunderstanding!! Here, allow me to simply give you my bank card, because, you see, you are blameless--it's your prerogative to extract as much money out of me, the consumer, as you can, and it's only justified that I duly submit willingly.
Knowing the motivation and justifying the action are very different things. Accepting that it is a business, there are nonetheless good and bad business practices, reasonable and insulting business practices. This technology is 3 years old, and should be getting cheaper, not more expensive.
As I said in my previous post, with v5 they are essentially bait-and-switching those who merely trust the earned name of the WRT54G model number, and charging $20 more for those who know better. Can they do it, as a business? Yes. Is it insulting? Extremely. Will they come out ahead in the whole deal? Well, we have a choice between dignity and allowing ourselves to be gouged, don't we.
"Nerds! You're all NERDS!"
the fact that you actually took the time to read all of that and then took the time to post that, using an email add. and everything, pretty much makes you a nerd too?
anywayss its get a moto wr850G, they sell dirt cheap (~20 dollars in some places) and are capable of the exact same things as the Linksys, plus if you DO decide that linux is too complicated for you, the new moto firmware v6.14 is amazing in itself, its got the features of a professional router and its stable as all hell.
long live the penguin
My Belkin works better than any of the Linksys routers I had.
So a company changes the specs of its hardware that affects warranty-voiding use of software, but doesn't affect it's ability to work out of the box in any specified way & charges the same price, they're "hozing" people?
#25, PAY ATTENTION! They did not change the WRT54GL. The "L" i just a letter that was added to the name. Oh and they charge 20$ more for it.
As for your WRT54G v5 that you claim "but doesn't affect it's ability to work out of the box in any specified way", you gotta be kidding me. Go browse the linksysinfo.org or the dslreports.com forums and see what pple think about it. The v5 is more buggy then the old POS BEFSR41 wich was also based on VxWorks.
So yes, Linksys are screwing us over.
Adi
"but doesn't affect it's ability to work out of the box in any specified way & charges the same price"
#25, v5 with the VxWare firmware is buggy as hell out of the box. Additionally, the reputation of how the WRT54G "works out of the box" is based on the linux-capable version. It is not the same, but it is being passed off to people expecting the same, and that is the point.
Bahh, there's so many Linux-based hackable routers out there now, is this really news? It should read, "Company that screwed up tries to make amends by charging more for the old product while still confusing customers with the new one."
Do yourself a favor and avoid Linksys altogether. An Asus WL-500G Deluxe has many more features and runs the same hacked firmwares. Also, there's some new firmwares cropping up for Netgear's WGT634U which actually can use the latest Linux kernel (2.6)! This means that it supports some damn advanced networking/routing/firewall/filtering options that no WRT could ever pull off (such as stateful packet inspection).
I saw a refurbished WGT634U on sale the other day for $30. Seems like a much better deal to me.
"They're NOT reducing their costs ! They're selling the same thing for more ! They're charding more for the same thing ! I can't state this enough, am i the only one who sees this ??"
LOL. I'll explain it simply: by allowing formerly warantee voiding activity on the hardware their support costs go up becuase n00bs will buy it then break it then call or return it. I'd do the exat same thing: jack up the cost to defer the expense of n00bs bricking the units and either returning them or calling product support.
But you're all linux fan bosy anyway so the conceopt of actually making a profit by selling products baffles you as yhou belive software and hardware springs forth from some magic technology tree yearning to "be free."
WTF are you taking about ? The whole warranty voiding excuse is pure BS. It's clearly stated that if ANY unauthorised firmware is uploaded on the router, the warranty is void. And Linksys can definetly check that out by verifying whatever's in the router's flash.
And nobody said anything about hardware being free. The WRT54G costs the same freakin price now that it has half the ram and flash while the old WRT54G(L) is 20$ more !
I don't care about linux and NO, i'm not a linux fanboy. I care however about copanies like Linksys ripping pple off by selling the same shit for more and by duping others to buy the good old reliable WRT54G and end up with some buggy piece of shit. You on the other hand, seem to be ignoring this and trying to defeng a corporate pig.
Right on brother ! /end rant
Adi
The new router (version 5) does have stateful packet inspection firewall, Riskable...and one reason they now use VxWare, is it is a true 'real time' that Cisco already uses in their switches and routers, and Linksys is owned by Cisco. I saw it posted that 80% of non-proprietary devices with an embedded OS use VxWare. You are probably reading this Web page through a device running VxWare. I have a version 5 router, and it works fine. What's the big deal? I think calling it a buggy piece of shit is an exaggeration, to say the least. D-link, Apple, friggin' TiVo all use VxWare.
Once again,
The first article out on the subject which has further inspired other articles such as this one still goes missed. Engadget, please give credit where credit is due. This is the fourth time you've missed attributing the news break to the appropriate source.
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=446&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Quoting #30 (Adi): "I care however about copanies like Linksys ripping pple off by selling the same shit for more"
Linksys is free to charge more if they want. You are free not to buy it. Vote with your wallet. Complaining here will not influence Linksys. At least they didn't stop selling the Linux version all together.
Of course, my big question is, can this router keep up with bitorrent at full bore? I've gone through so many routers and finding one that can keep up is hard. Closest I got was the DI-604 which went at full speed only to die 6 months later. Going to try a NetGear business model next.
Quoting #31: "friggin' TiVo (uses) VxWare"
Tivo uses Linux. Proof? http://www.tivo.com/linux
Carlton, click my name above to see the list of VxWare customers. TiVo Inc, Apple, D-Link, and many more are listed.