Lawsuit claims Microsoft knowingly sold defective Xbox 360s
posted Dec 5th 2005 2:30PM
Chicago resident Robert Byers isn't buying Microsoft's claim that "only" 3% of the Xbox 360s that have been sold were faulty, so he's filed a class action lawsuit against the corporation in an Illinois federal court calling for undisclosed damages, litigation expenses, and the replacement or recall of 360 consoles. The suit claims that Microsoft knowingly released a defective product in order to beat Sony (and presumably Nintendo) to market and gain an early foothold in the next-gen console "war." As we've reported several times, users have been complaining that their new Xboxes crash during regular and online play, displaying various error messages or blanking the screen, and that many units have right toasty power bricks. We sure hope this all gets resolved soon, because we are still on hold waiting for customer service to troubleshoot our store-bought 360.
Thank god mine has been workin great this whole time since launch, these horror storries are making me nervous though!
Why does every release of a new console always have problems? Do these companies do real world testing? Like in a real home with and entertainment center and carpet? or is it just in labs? Has it always been this way? Did the original NES have problems or did the SNES? I dont remember.
Nintendo consoles have never had these problems, it's mostly been with the PS2 and Xbox 360. Or when working with new ideas, like Sega.net on the Dreamcast.
so MS releases a console more powerful the 95% of the computers on the market, and every single one of them is expected to be perfect? come one people get a grip. how many appliances ever get purchased en-masse on one day? 400,000 xbox 360 consoles sold on one day!!!! Of course there are bound to be a few machines that don't work. A few bone head users that didn't properly ventilate their machine. And yes, the occasional "scratched" disk.
I fail to understand why articles like a CAL which has been unverified as to its content and legitmacy even sees the light of day in the press (if that is what you call this).
Tell me when they win. Then we have something to talk about!!!
Every product always will have a certain amount of problems once released in the real world. You can test 5-1000 units or 10,000 and i'm sure 1 out of 10,000 could have a defect that probably happen during assembly. Also all the devices use various parts from various manufactures, how can you known that every single part is working correctly you can only trust the company that sold you the part, to have tested it. So many multiple conbinations and variables, you can't guarantee a perfect product.
Now whether Microsoft knew about a defect ahead of time and proceded to deal with it later, is another issue.
The original Playstation had problems too. It's entirely possible that Microsoft is spot on when it says only 3% of XBox 360s are defective. The only reason this is getting so much attention is because the hype surrounding the XBox 360 and the people with problems are extremely vocal. But to put things in perspective, when my preordered XBox 360 comes in at Gamestop, it better work right or I will be screaming bloody murder too:)
There have been problems since the first consoles. I remember constantly blowing into the NES carts to keep the playing. The XBox 360 is a little more sophitsicated that the NES. With increased complexity comes an increase in the number of things that may not work right due to manufacturing defects.
Engadget, please stop feeding the troll. Products like the XBOX 360 need space for ventilation and these problems are just overblown hype. It's time for tech sites like yourself to show some sense and explain the realities of a system launch.
If they were selling faulty consoles, wouldn't mine be broken?
I had it on for over 12 hours yesterday with no problems at all.
Remember in fight club where Ed Norton was an insurance claims agent for the auto companies and he would settle with the victims of defective autos instead of ordering a recall. This is the same thing, microsoft is just waiting until a class action suit comes forward and will settle for an amount which is less then the price of a recall. Thats why they released a limited supply. Instead of using underwriters labs they're testing them with real consumers, its genius!
3% of the units for the first day is 12,000. That is a pretty big number of units so if even 1% of those people post on the web that is going to look bad to the company. MS should take efforts to mitigate this. Saying people didnt properly ventilate is not an adequate response, when you purcahse an entertainment device but have to hang it by strings from the ceiling that just is unacceptable.
"The suit claims that Microsoft knowingly released a defective product in order to beat Sony (and presumably Nintendo) to market and gain an early foothold in the next-gen console war...."
I have never heard before such a nonsense in my life. Only in America!
Come on #7, you know what the score is here.
MS iz da debil!!!!11
We are all watching brilliant marketing moves in action, and the public is buying it. Any press is good press - first Microsoft successfully created a demand by specifically under-shipping units in its American launch so that people would clamor around this new "it" product. By doing this, they encourage newsworthy price-gouging deals on eBay. There is also the classic foolish crook robbing the local video game store story that happens every time. This successfully gets a lot of media attention and positions the 360 as "the" item this holiday season. Knowing that the public is fickle and has no capacity to care about this stuff unless there is some controversy around it to keep it on top of their minds, they knowingly ship a small percentage of the product with faulty power supplies (easy to replace in a recall). This keeps the buzz going strong (any press is good press) until a week before Christmas when there is a sudden influx of 360's at all the major outlets making sure every kid that wants one will get one this year. And what a bargain $400 is compared to the $2000 they were fetching on eBay earlier in the holiday season.
F'ing brilliant.
What the crap damages is this guy talking about? Is he emotionally damaged because his PGR3 crashes sometimes? Crap, he would have a better time suing MS for the original xbox controller due to cramps. Anyhoo, I'm going to go sue Sony for rushing the PSP to compete with the DS without making any games for it.
Half of the people posting here don't seem to understand the "watchdog" concept of the press.
To quote www.ire.org, "A crucial duty of a journalist is to serve the public interest by acting as a watchdog on government and business. This duty has become all the more important at a time when governments are restricting the flow of information. At such times, broadcast and print journalists must redouble their efforts to use freedom-of-information laws to obtain public documents and help the public appreciate the value of such laws."
By pointing out problems in product launches, tech journalists are holding corporations accountable and pushing them to always try to do better next time, to avoid bad publicity. Unless you're a lacky working for one of these corporations, then engadget (and others) are doing you all a favor which will lead to better products in the long run, so stop the hatefest on the press.
It's obvious that Microsoft could have done better with the XBOX launch (as Apple could have done better with the Nano, etc.) so let us do our job and use the power of the press to get corporations to produce better products. Otherwise, I don't want to hear any of you complain about the build quality or design flaws of any product. No one is saying Microsoft should be shut down for their mistakes, just that they should own up to them, compensate loyal consumers and get it right next time. Is that such a bad thing? Yesh...
What the crap damages is this guy talking about? Is he emotionally damaged because his PGR3 crashes sometimes? Crap, he would have a better time suing MS for the original xbox controller due to cramps. Anyhoo, I'm going to go sue Sony for rushing the PSP to compete with the DS without making any games for it.
I bought mine yesterday and when I plugged it in 3 red lights - it never worked - you would think that could be spotted at the factory.
When I called tech support, they made it sound like a lot of the 360s are defective.
Well, my 360 has worked flawlessly, minus a scratched disk (Target's return policy rocks BTW). My P/S is about 15 inches away from my apartments radiator, but it is sitting out on the open floor. I didn't even know it had a fan until I read it and then put my ear up to it to listen.
I would like to know if this guy has a 360.
one word... Frivolous.
I'm inclined to believe microsofts claims of 3%. The thing is everyone who's 360 doesn't work is going to be screaming for blood over it. While the peoples who's 360's work, well are to busy playing them to care about countering the argument. I'll bet that if averyone who's 360 worked came forward with as much tenacity defending microsoft we wouldn't hear a word from anyone otherwise. They'd just be drowned out.
"Nintendo consoles have never had these problems,"
Apparently you are not aware of the recall of EVERY SINGLE Nintendo Famicom sold through 1983. Around 600,000 systems. During the time Nintendo was fixing problems with the system (which were a safety hazard), they also were not selling the system in stores - I believe for more than six months.
Look it up; I'm doing this from memory so the details may be a bit off, but that's the gist of it. It cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. The problems were obviously ironed out by the time of the NES release.
But still, these sorts of things *should not* be an acceptable way of doing business. Nintendo did not expect or plan for these problems, and it should not be the kind of thing that a company says "oh well, it's a new product, you have to expect bugs." People aren't paying to be beta testers.
Jimmy San: When I called tech support, they made it sound like a lot of the 360s are defective.
14,000 is a lot (400,000 * .03)
Maybe if the market hadn't been pushing so hard and everyone wasn't so up-tight about meeting some arbitrary deadline, things like this wouldn't happen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Damn, 12,000, mistyped.
I haven't got my X-box yet, but I'm pretty sure that due to Microsoft's evil intentions it would have been defective, can I join the class action?
#2 Jesse wrote:
>>Do these companies do real world testing? Like in a real home with and entertainment center and carpet? or is it just in labs?>Instead of using underwriters labs they're testing them with real consumers, its genius!<<
You're a non-genius Frank. Because you don't realize that companies can't release a product in the US without the necessary safety compliance testing by an authorized entity such as UL. That said, electrical safety compliance testing would probably not uncover a heating flaw in the XBox. And MS would have sent UL a unit whose performance they knew was golden.
1. It's basically a computer.
2. It spins a disc, therefore more moving parts and a laser, any of which can hiccup at any time. Don't know about GC, Saturn, or Dreamcast.
3. NES and SNES were cartridge based (similar to flash memory? not sure) and had much less processing power requirements. Look at the old space shuttles running 386 chips, no margin for error there.
4. It's a gaming system.
Argh my post got munged, so here is a repeat. Sorry!
#2 Jesse wrote:
>>Do these companies do real world testing? Like in a real home with and entertainment center and carpet? or is it just in labs?
REAL computer companies run their prototypes in 100F-degree+ heat rooms for weeks to test out reliability in conditions worse than real-world. Whether or not MS did this (and properly), only they know.
#9 Frank wrote:
>>Instead of using underwriters labs they're testing them with real consumers, its genius!
You're a non-genius Frank. Because you don't realize that companies can't release a product in the US without the necessary safety compliance testing by an authorized entity such as UL. That said, electrical safety compliance testing would probably not uncover a heating flaw in the XBox. And MS would have sent UL a unit whose performance they knew was golden.
My 360 works great. Don't beleive the hype. The amazing thing about the internet is that any claim no matter how rediculous can be heard by the multitudes. Gotta Love it, but just don't beleive everything you hear.
People are idiot to file such claims. Why dont we see class action suits on cars, clothes, shoes, food...everything we buy? Xbox is an acception as stated that when you have a massive launch and no matter how much test is done to check for failure. You will end up with small amount of failure. Give me a break ppl...this is just another way to scam corporations out of money and freebies. And you wonder why the cost of living is going up? Stupid cases like these makes the company lose money and charge us more...gg moron!
OMG a Microsoft product that is defective! What is the world coming to? Heavens to Betsy we all know that their other products (like windows) are all rock solid. Gimme a break folks. You buy junk from a junk dealer and you expect it to work without numerous flaws? Excuse me I have to guffaw.
With electronic devices there is typically a 100% screen for pass fail. I used to work at a well known disk drive manufacturer. Every disk drive leaving the plant was screened. This resulted in typical line yield rates of 90%. Ie this means that 10% of everything built didn't work. Obviously the broken units did not ship, reason being that it's WAY to expensive to ship a BROKEN product and then have to REPLACE it. Yet we still had warranty failures for lots of reasons, damaged in shipment, damaged by dumb ass customers, marginal parts that were not cought by the tests, etc etc.
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but even I don't believe that MS knowingly shipped defective products out into the field. ( Buggy maybe, defective no way ). The 360 is a MUCH more complex piece of hardware then a disk drive. If they're seeing a 3% failure rate in the field I would say they are doing very well. Heck anything below 10% failure for a new product like this is pretty good, and the failure rate will steadily decrease as they add more advanced screens to their manufacturing process.
This happens every time a console is released. Anyone remember the PS2s inability to read discs? How about the PSPs dead pixel and broken button problems? Anyone remember having to turn a Playstation up-side-down to get it to read discs?
For the people saying that Nintendo has never had issues with their systems, what about all of the blowing that everyone had to do with the carts to get them to play? What about the crazy hold reset and push power to get the original Zelda's battery backup to actually backup your game? What about the recall for the faulty loading mechanism on the NES?
Everything released, console or not, has its percentage of faulty units. Things get amplified with a new console release because the type of people who are the early adopters are the same type of people who will run to a message board to scream bloody murder.
Why the f*$k are you guys defending Microsoft? They clearly shipped a product that has a number of problems. I'm old enough to remember multiple console launches from a number of companies and none of them were as botched as the 360's. I'd love to own a working 360, don't get me wrong, but I don't see any point in denying that a problems exists in the first place. Let's embarass them into fixing the problem so we all benefit from this situation.
#32
What rock were you under during the PSP and PS2 launches?
I haven't had a serious problem with the 360 since launch. I've had a couple of problems with individual games but nothing major. Call of Duty 2 has presented no problems.
Don't forget that the rushed games can be at fault to.
I also know (from working in PC hardware) that people don't pay attention to airflow, heat, dust, cat hair, dog hair, etc. I'm sure simply the placement of the Xbox 360 are causing some people's problems. After that the problems probably related to shipping.
Don't go by Microsoft's tech support's opinion, or what it "seems" either. Anyone who works in a call center is biased beacuse when they have an angry customer it's a bad day and they remember it. 5 years of call center experience shows me that although the employee may think something is totally wrong with an individual product, he/she misses the overal picture. People don't call you if there isn't a problem first of all. And if you get 5-6 calls in a row about the same problem, you will automatically assume there is a major problem. 6 bad calls out of 80-120 is only 5-7%.
Let's see; in my experience with dealing with mass amounts of hardware:
15% of Maxtor Hard drives I have dealt with have had early failure problems. That's out of a couple hundred. Guess what hard drive the official PS2 is (and most likely the PS3 will have)? I really hope the don't, or I can change it for a different brand. I probably have just been unlucky with them, but my opinion of the brand has waned.
5-10% of IBM laptops I've dealth with have various minor problems. Probably due to shipping. I deal with about 20 every 3 months.
About 80% of Sony products I have owned have had a problem. 7 PS2s, 3 DVD players, 2 Sony DVD burners, 1 CD Burner, 1 Sony Desktop. I have 1 working dvd player and 2 PS2s that are still working since I've had them. Thankfully I was able to fix those PS2s and get rid of them.
I've decided that these things just happen. Consumers get weary, but it's hard to say whether that is deserved or not.
I personally still buy Maxtor, IBM, and Sony products if they are the right price. They aren't my first choice brand (except for IBM laptops).
Don't put a lot of stock in tech support saying a lot of people are having problems. That's all tech support hears, because they're tech support. Very few people call to say, "Hey, everything's jolly good; workin' fine. Bye."
My first Gamecube was defective out of the box, too - something wrong with the GPU (crashed in Monkey Ball of all things ;)). Products have defects, moreso at launch. Next breaking news story: icy roads prove slippery, CAL filed against the weather.
My XBOX 360 has had disc read problems with Tiger Woods, PGR3, Call of Duty. More recently it has froze up 5 times this past weekend with Need for Speed Most Wanted. Should I wait till the lawsuit goes through before I get it fixed? How would you approach the situation?
Have been using my 360 for about 12 hrs each day since Nov 15. (Thanks hex168.com)
Interesting that Bob is suing for "unspecified damages and litigation-related expenses" when, if he did in fact get a defective unit... MS has been great about replacing them even to the extent of OVERNIGHT shipping both ways:
http://www.varbusiness.com/components/weblogs/article.jhtml?articleId=174401816
Probably not even necessary to repair since, reportedly, over 400k units have shipped with an electronics-low a 3% defect rate:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1765&Itemid=2
Quick point also that a relatively harsh electronics site has reviewed the 360 and given it a 9/10:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2202
Why do I make these points? Because I'm a gamer and am tired of the flame wars. Competition is a healthy thing - so long as my PS2, Gamecube and 360 don't actually start to "rumble." Such prolific whiny B$, however, is enough to make me sick. Perhaps I can tell that to my boss and get out of here... I'm looking forward to finishing God of War tonight then getting back to PDZ!
My regular xbox has always crashed, even before I modded it.
If you're buying a MS product isn't it almost expected to crash? Do they make anything that doesn't?
Microsoft must have been a dedede! if they didnt think ths was going to happen
New products often having teething problems - when there's so many there's bound to be a few problems. The product can be tested as much as posible in the lab - but there's almost always going to be something that crops up in real world usage.
It's also more likely for defective products to appear at the start of manufacturing. Just that 'cause the Xbox360 launch is so big and publicised these are magnified - kind of like the iPod nano problems.
EXCELLENT!
SUE THAT SHIT COMPANY TO THE GROUND AND PUT IT OUT OF ITS MISERY ONCE AND FOR ALL!
CRAPBOX 360 BELONGS IN THE TRASH ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE COMPANY!
Legitimate question:
Are there ANY class action lawsuits for PSPs with dead pixels that Sony absolutely refuses to fix? A screen with dead pixels qualifies as a defective product with other major electronics companies (Nintendo, Apple, etcetera...). I have tried reasoning with Sony but I've been given nothing but the corporate runaround.
What impact does this kinda cr@p have on the legal system over there? Doesn't it get clogged with these kind of trivial lawsuits?
Absolutely ridiculous.
cap lock does not make you look smart or validate your opinion!!!! retard. A couple of excalation points... that's another story :)
sue sue sue...
I called wednesday about my 360 freezing up, sent it out Thursday, got it back today.. Microsoft is handling it fine, people need to wash their puzzies.
Of course the lawsuit is frivolous.
Lets be realistic here M$ products are infamous for crashes, bugs, security holes, etc, etc. Why does anyone think this product would be any different???
Additionally, there has been a concentration on the 3% number. Keep in mind that many of these machines are probably wrapped up with a pretty bow setting under a Christmas tree unplayed! This number could go up drastically after the holiday.
my xbox and xbox360 are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet ....no probs and i love em both and i dont work for microsoft. peace out !
#44 Yes, indeed. Run them out of business. Then watch as the 90% of the world that relies on their products come to a grinding halt. I'm sure YOUR business model is much more successful.
Troll. No, check that. Tool...
This is just like america running the last big company we have in the dirt so the rest of the world can take over.
Everyone Sues in this god forsaken country. it makes me sick...
I've never had mine crash on me. Another friend of mine got one too. He hasn't had any problems. I think they're just leaving the power supply in a place where it can't get air...
Nearly every system has a lawsuit filed against it. The original Xbox had to replace all of the power cords. Sony lost a huge PS2 related lawsuit (details here: www.ps2settlement.com) and now some lawyer is after MS. No surprise here.
As for me, my 360 is working great.
All you ignorant people out there. Here is some proof that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the first batch of XBox 360's.
Video of it crashing when playing PGR3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4072535552605265617&q=xbox360+crash
Video of how it can easily scratch discs:
http://dwl.xbox-scene.com/video/Xbox-360-Scratch-Disks3.wmv
Llamma.com delves into the problem article:
http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/Xbox-360-Game-Disc-Scratched.htm
Note that some people have experienced scratched discs without moving it while it's on.
You people who defend M$ are unbelievable. There is obvious problems with their new system. Not only are the CRAPBOXES full of potential software related bugs, they have hardware problems like overheating, not working out of the box, scratching discs, etc. This is unacceptable; yes, some PS 1 and PS 2 systems had problems but at least they don't destroy the game discs which will be hard to explain why they are damaged.
Snap out of your trance people. I'm sorry, but this is the most crap-tacular launch in history ; as expected of Microsoft...
buy the xbox360 or dont buy it. its that simple.
move on...
i'm soo glad some one has stood up to MS! and i'm also glad that i'm waiting for a Revolution! i think MS should have done at least some sort of testing be for releasing this console,instead of trying to beat Nintendo and Sony to market. Maybe then it might be worth buying!
So... uh... why doesn't someone sue Sony for this? All I've heard from them is Playstation defects, UMD's flying through the air, children crying when their PS2 doesn't play their original PlayStation games, Kutaragi being a stubborn ass and not moving the friggin square button. By now, Sony HAS to know every product they ship out the door has a defect because its parts are made out of pure monkey shit.
I guess my point isn't that Sony sucks, even though I do strongly feel that. The point is that this happens with lots of products. My friend's Gamecube overheated and turned into a brick of nothingness. So did my launch Cube too, but thankfully during the warranty period for a free fix. No product is going to be perfect, so you should then realize with a launch its going to be a little worse.
any chance you guys (engadget) tested backwards compatibility with halo2 on the 360 before it had problems connecting to live?
i did.
the halo2 save file corrupted my gamer profile (doesn't happen all the time), so i had to delete the profile and recover it from xboxlive.
the saddest part? i lost all my game acheivments. i didn't know they were tied directly to the gamer profile. luckily, i'm having freezing problems too. therefore i haven't gotten very far in anything. :/
I love it when people are so busy hating Microsoft that they loose all common sense.
First off, for those who stated above, the power supply is UL listed and you can look it up in database.ul.com. Second, even if it is UL Listed does not mean something will not have a problem. UL Listing != no problems. Blame the QA department at the chinese manufacturing plant.
Since Microsoft does not actually build the power supply, I doubt they knew it had problems. I never heard any of this noise when Dell recalled over 1 million power supplies and it made the national news nor when Fujitsu, IBM and Apple had problems. I believe the PS2 had its own power supply recall (http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePage.aspx?ProductNo=11091984).
You know what, in this multi-sourced world this is bound to happen and will continue to happen.
As far as the scratched DVDs, spin up your 53x drives in your desktops and do the same thing they did in the video. Or, better yet, take your Sony DVD player and do the same thing -- I know from first hand experience because I was stupid enough to move my DVD player while the kids had been watching a movie! Good bye movie and DVD player!
Too many people are putting on too much hurt on Microsoft for no real reason and most of them either don't own one or are PeeS2/3 fanboys.
Are there problems? Sure! Am I to believe that no one here has ever recieved a new launch item or gizmo that has not had a problem? What happened to barking about the PSP screens with dead pixels?
Microsoft is too easy a target because they launched first, and way too many people are making too much hay for nothing!
I hate that every freak'n problem has to turn into a law suite. A more powerful statement would be to return the XBox360 to the store and get your money back. Nothing speaks to a problem like a loading dock full of returned products.
No Zo, the XBox 360 is a device that is built to be able to be vertically stood up. If this disc scratching was a problem, then a lot of PS2's would've been messed up too. Imagine an unfortunate accident where you topple it over while on; now the disc is destroyed and so may be the system. I doubt your DVD player boasts the ability to be vertically positioned.
In case you didn't notice, stupid M$ already have had experience with faulty power blocks the first time around with the Crapbox 1. Wouldn't you think a vastly more powerful machine would pose similar problems? You'd think they would actually test them to make sure these things don't happen again. Did they say that they'll recall the power blocks yet? No; they are telling people to relocate them. It's as if they are unwilling to admit to the problem.
In case you assume I'm a PS fanboy, I'm not. The PSP is junk. The dead pixel fiasco is absurd. Nintendo willingly takes back the DS even with 1 dead pixel. It's all about service.
No person expects products to be flawless. They only expect products to COMPARABLE in quality. The XBox 360 sure doesn't fit the bill.
People here have common sense, but M$ doesn't. They ALWAYS rush things. From history, they ALWAYS screw up big. This time is no different. People should just wait till all 3 next gen systems are out before they make the jump.
#57...They fixed all of those problems for the US release of the PSP. Dunno about the PS2, though. But not playing a few playstation games can't really be compared to crashing and overheating.
Alot of you are saying how all new system releases have various problems. This is not what this is about I think. Its whether or not MS was selling faulty xbox 360s on purpose. The answer, I really don't know, I don't see to much of a direct atvantage to selling faulty systems, but there might be if you're a marketing person. We'll just have to see I guess.
The power block heating up is an added feature for those in the east coast during winter. It will help on heating bills
Heh - I heard the cases scratch easily too, oh my!
No wonder companies refrain from releasing the cool gadgets in the USA.
Actually, Tony, the PS2 did indeed scratch discs. The first model of the PS2 had a problem with the laser lens being mounted too high, and the discs would spin and suffer a groove being scratched into them because of this design flaw. There's a reason the PS2 has been through almost a dozen different versions since launch. Power problems, AV connector problems, overheating problems, and other issues caused Sony to redesign the PS2 several times.
The PS1 also had similar issues. EVERY console released since the dawn of gaming had issues!!!
Pong: Hard-wired controller would fail, requiring repaid on entire console.
Atari 2600 VCS: Original heavy-sixer had problems with the switches (loose or lost contact) and the RF connector (soldered improperly and wiggled loose). Other 2600 consoles had other issues.
Odyssey 2: Hard-wired controller would break easily, as would keyboard, requiring repair on whole console. Some consoles proved to be incompatible with the Voice accessory.
Intellivision: Another hard-wired controller issue, not to mention having the most delicate, easily-broken controller on the market.
NES: Front-loader was prone to failure, requiring frequent cleaning for games to even work. Power button failure on several units.
SNES: Actually, a pretty stable system, but later models did have problems with a lot of third-party accessories, which angered gamers.
Genesis: Headphone jack failure. Power supply failure. RF connector jack failure. Also, Sega blocked several third-party accessories and games from working on their console in later versions.
Colecovision: Where do I start? Bad cartridge contacts, faulty controllers, bad RF connections, bad RF cables, power supply problems, game compatibility problems, etc.
Vectrex: Screen burn-in. Controller failure.
I could go on and on. Do you really want a history lesson? Because I have first-hand knowledge of all this stuff, and would be more than happy to type up a novel for you explaining the history of game console launches and their respective problems since 1976.
Let me just summarize it by saying the 360 launch is par for the course, nothing unusual, and that you are completely wrong.
#62: Then why did I have to return my PSP four times to get one without a dozen dead pixels at launch in the USA?
Why did so many of my customers have the same issues? The most certainly did not fix ALL the PSP problems at the US launch.
Umm tony sweetie - a question if I may? Are you telling me that if I wait for the PS3 it will be completely flawless and perfect in every single way? Are you assuring me it will have a significantly lower defect rate than the 3-5% rate the XBox 360 seems to be batting right now?
That's what I thought. Now be a good boy and take your meds.
#55 Your absolutely rediculous.
If one guy post a video of whats happening to his one 360, does that then a wholesale problem with all 360's make???
Are you even reading any of these forums? Most websites on the first few days of this problem all used one guy as their source for the problem with overheating power supply. They only have one source and they go on to say things like "Honeymoon is over, as users report 360 has such and such an issue".
Please note, the power supply is not defective, I repeat not defective, ther are hundreds of thousands of people using their 360's with absolutely no problem at all! A handful of morons that keep their power supply in an unventilated area behind their TV's where all of their equipment is spewing out hot air does not a defect make. In fact the power supply is acting the way it should, shutting itself down before a major melt down or fire hazard.
The 360 does not scratch disc...I repeat it does not scratch disc in and of itself on it's own accord. No it needs the help of some foolish people to tilt it on it's side while spining! Any DVD player, including the Xbox, 360, PS3, PC, MAC or any one you can pick up at best buy will do the same dam thing. Don't turn your DVD player on it's side or upright while it's spinning or YOU...not the DVD player will destroy your Disc and maybe the drive itself.
There is absolutely no proof that MS is having any widespread problems of any fashion with their box that involves their Industrial Design.
If you don't own a 360 you have no place to talk about the validity of any of these claims...period! My 360 works great. No problems except for 2 random crashes with Perfect Dark and a weird glitch while playing Halo 2 that caused a temporary screen defect.
These are not reoccuring problems and no cause for me to cry about and claim that the 360 is a boat anchor.
Yes indeed this launch has been the greatest in the History of Consoles and some of you just can't deal with that.
Why is this the greatest Launch:
Great Controller - Wireless is awesome
Great Games
High Def
Media Center and Media Sharing Capabilities
Xbox Live Marketplace
Gamer Cards
Customizable Menu's and Faceplate
Xbox Live Arcade - Geometry wars is Awesome
Backwards Compatibilty and the upgrade in Resolution and AntiAliasing of orignal Xbox games: Half Life 2, Halo 2 in High Def
Free Xbox Live Silver
I can plug my wireless logitech keyboard in and it just works (for typing in Email messages and registration)
Great Design - Definately looks cool
By the way all of these things I've listed except for great games are found exclusively on the 360! No other console does these things. That's allot of cool stuff your missing out on if you don't own a 360 today!
FIrst of all i'd like to congratulate all the trolls (microsoft haters, noobs) for looking like sensible intelligent people. You guys have a good point: #32 "OMG a Microsoft product that is defective! What is the world coming to? Heavens to Betsy we all know that their other products (like windows) are all rock solid. Gimme a break folks. You buy junk from a junk dealer and you expect it to work without numerous flaws? Excuse me I have to guffaw."
Its funny watching people like this (obviously not a mac fanboy) come onto a forum and post irrelvant, incorrect, pointless and biased information. Anyways... lets just say the new Mac OSX has a lot left to be desired too, and its definitely not anymore stable than XP. And a comparable pc for less money will blow any G5 out of the water :(
Back on subject....
Anyone remember having to turn their playstation upside down in order for it to play games without freezing? orr... how about the disc read error on the PS2, the sony underground disc that corrupted all the data on your memory card, yep, no problems here :D . Here let me go far back into the days of SNES, anyone remember having to blow into the cartridges port numerous times in order to get the game to boot the game?
Sueing large corporations in America is getting out of hand, look at Ford and GM for instance, we are indirectly destroying ourselves (our economy). As others have stated if you don't like your Xbox 360 then don't Bitech to MS, your still under the 30day return policy.
The man who MOVED his Xbox360 while it was in motion has proved nothing but sheer stupidity, any NON portable device shouldn't be moved while in operation.
Matt does bring up a valid point in lawsuites being a very bad thing here in the US. Yes it is our constitutional right to try and sue anybody at anytime for any reason. I think our forefathers made it so slack because they didn't envision there being so many whiners in the future. Back to the point. Doctor and medication is getting more and more expensive... why? Because of malpractice insurance so when some idiot gets told he has a 5% success rate, his operation fails, and he sues his doctor who may have tried everything. Doctors have to spend an abosulte ton on insurance to protect themselves from lawsuites and we are the ones that get ripped off. Same thing will happen if people start sueing company to a high degree. Prices go up. Granted it would take a lot of people being angry to get the prices up... I can see it happening some day.
for all you Sony fanbois... it was only a month ago Sony lost the CAL regarding the infamous "disk read error". All consoles (electronics) have faulty units... always have, always will.
the good news is your might be entitled to $25 or more crappy sony stuff.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html
To #65: OK, fine, assuming you're right that surethe PS2 indeed scratched discs, then M$ with their mighty quality control *rofl* would've maybe learned from Sony. I can agree with you that Sony is pretty stupid too. The PS2 failure rate is extraordinarily high, compared to say...the GCN. But hey, people couldn't care less. Most probably bought it to mod it so that they can get free games and assumed that the mod eventually destroyed the system. That's all fine and dandy for Sony since they're making more money that way. The many versions probably addressed the many issues that it had and has since made a tiny PS2 also. In other words, so what if Sony screwed up too last gen? M$ could've done a better job at preventing disc scratching since it's "next gen".
To #68: Please spell ridiculous correctly. OK, by the sounds of this:
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=23998153&page=0
the guy is trying to help the other people that are having problems. It worked for him. Therefore, it's not "some stupid morons placing it behind their TV" as it is possible to be true. Also, we're lucky that it's winter time. Imagine if it was summer time with the people who actually try to save the earth by not using freezing cold A/C. IF it's a problem now, THEN summer would be worse.
In the case of scratching discs, well, you are not one of those unfortunate ones who got a faulty unit; that's it. As I have stated, there are some people that did not move their XBox while it was running and yet it still scratched their discs. Do you know the reason why the discs might be scratched at all from moving? Physics: something called angular momentum/rotational intertia. However, normal people do not realize such problems. They should've read the manual but they didn't. After all, their discman could be turned in whatever way they wanted. Normal people do not realize that the drive is spinning at a much faster rate and the effects of it. Maybe they should've done something about that. Nintendo must've foresaw this and went with cartridge for N64 since it wasn't as prone to such problems. And the GCN doesn't boast to be vertically placed as it was a cube anyways.
Anyways, isn't it handy that you avoided my first video? Of PGR3 crashing? Hmm...maybe it happened to you too. Is this an isolated incident? No. Is it repeatable? No. A lot of people are experiencing random crashes. Hmm...wonder what the problem is then eh?
I don't need to buy an XBox 360 to say anything about it. Frankly, there isn't a compelling enough reason to purchase it over PS3 or Revolution.
What did the blowing have to do with anything? I would think that it would be analogous to having dust collect on the reading surface of the DVD. I think you would want to clean it off before using it.
Back on topic. I'm not sure what to make of the lawsuit. Maybe M$ weren't aware of the problems due to lack of testing since they had to RUSH IT...hmm...doesn't sound too far fetched. And if they WERE aware of it, then I don't know if that could be proven.
#66 I guess you were referring to me. If you read my comment more carefully you would notice I said all of the problems he listed were fixed. He never said anything about dead pixels... Anyways, I wasn't trying to say the PSP was perfect for the US launch. Because it wasn't.
How about you post a poll here and get some loose stats on defective units within your readership?
(or do you think the fanboys are smart enough to invalidate the poll?)
Just out of curiosity, can someone with an XBox 360 post a chunk of the warranty from inside the box?
Seriously, if some dick has to buy one of the first units off the assembly line (rushed to satisfy just this sort of butthole's demand that they meet promised ship dates) and and is surprised when some units don't function correctly, he gets none of my sympahty. I really hope the judge hits him with some kind of penalty. This kind of crap does not belong in our court system.
People are obviously not looking at the simple logical aspects of things. Just b/c u paid 400$ for it doesnt mean that u can cover it with pillows and blankets and complain when it doesnt work. its made for good ventalation so give it good ventalation. also the disc scratching is just rediculous! its basic physics of an object in rotation. everyone has spinned a bike tire in there hands and tryed to turn it about after a fast speed has been reached... and a disc would be different Y?? no one has said it was different but from what i have read, i pressume that they are hinting on it. like said b/f if tilted the disc can be ruined. the reason being the disc is turning also while the consule turns. the disc doesnt exactly give way that easily causeing it to tilt, bla bla bla u get the rest. but everyone knows that and as well should.
i do have a question though... do any of you actualy read the posts after someone makes a stupid name out of the xbox name or microsoft's name? i dont. it just tells me that some stupid kid wrote it that cant do much more than try to insult somebody (or something)
it doesnt realy matter to me. im going to have access to all of them b/c my friends and me r going to get a house and split the payments (3way split a lot cheaper) we individualy like different consules but im not going to be biased and start making claims that i dont know about (but i do make claims)
this lawsuit is a waste of time. to me (might be wrong) there is noway ms would loose. all in all the problems are iffy, but as long as they are willing to replace the consule all is well. as long as mine plays oblivion ill be set!
#2, you don't get it. It's not that Microsoft and Sony don't test these products. They do TONS of testing. The last thing they want is bad publicity. If all the 360 consoles were defective it would be different. But since it's only a few, it's most likely a fault on the manufacturing side, not the development of the product. Whoever is actually cranking out 360's in a factory somewhere screwed up, not Microsoft's developers and designers.
Also, you asked if NES had problems...try to put a game in your NES right now, i guarentee you it will take you a few tries to get it to work.
well, my xbox 360 has been running fine since the day i bought it. Ya know why? Because im not RETARTED. I have my 360 horizontal like any person with the collective intellegence of a rock and a blade of grass would do (my disks dont scratch). I have my 360 in an area with high ventallation , and even get the most out of it by putting wood blocks underneath it to open up more ventellation spots (no overheating/errors). Now, for the people who did all that i did, and it still screwed up based on a manufacturer warrenty, i am truly sorry and hope that it gets fixed pronto. For everyone else who is bitching at M$ for something they themselves caused, sit down and shut up! We are tired of hearing stupid people complain about things that they brought apon themselves.
What?! a lawsuit? why is everything is a quest for money? before if things were faulty you took them back and got a shiny new one. even if 3% are fawlty that still means the remaining 97% aren't. get a life.
How many times have you heard of vehicle recalls? People have been making cars for close to a century now. There is more at stake with a motorized vehicle than a piece of electronics that sits somewhere next to your TV set. Except for the fact it is causing a significant number of kids lately to become fat and lazy. Not every device created from human engineering can be flawless. Look at the space shuttle. If you have the kind of cash to blow on something only so many days on the market and complain about its little quirks; then I hope hope everything you own goes up in flames. As for me I'll just sit back and wait.
How many times have you heard of vehicle recalls? People have been making cars for close to a century now. There is more at stake with a motorized vehicle than a piece of electronics that sits somewhere next to your TV set. Except for the fact it is causing a significant number of kids lately to become fat and lazy. Not every device created from human engineering can be flawless. Look at the space shuttle. If you have the kind of cash to blow on something only so many days on the market and complain about its little quirks; then I hope hope everything you own goes up in flames. As for me I'll just sit back and wait.
HATERS!!!! do u expect microsoft to test ALL the sold units for defects???
There are so many wrong comments in this discussion that it is pathetic.
1) For those of you who say that there are no problems and that people are just not giving the 360 room for ventalation... Look there are huge problems, but that is expected. Maybe you got a good 360... Good for you, enjoy your system. Those of you who got a bad system, you learned a lesson... never buy a gaming console on release date, always wait for the two weeks out and get a better product (if not then you take the higher chance of getting a faulty product). Even in that case, Microsoft is doing great by replacing their bad products in a timely manner, trust me the PSP and PS2 did not have this good of a return/turn around. If you just can not wait the 2 days, deal with problems until Walmart, Best Buy, etc. gets another shipment then return it.
If you are one of those stupid people who paid $1,000 (or more) on Ebay for a bad system.. that's what you get, (You could have waited and purchased two good systems)
2) I, by no means, am defending Microsoft. I personally am an open source type of person, but as with any product there are going to have defects and the percentage of 360 is rather small for such a huge release.
3)Microsoft met their release date and released an awesome gaming console, with a rather small defect rate (hardware that is) On the software side, defect free proprietary software does not exist, especially with Microsoft.(any software for that matter). If you think you can do better, go buy some prototype parts, learn a shit load of C++, Direct X, OpenGl,... whatever, recruit some character designers and make your own product. Hell, if it is better, I will buy it, but until then I am happy with the 360 (except for the damn price, but compared to other computer hardware performing at that level, it is rather cheap).
4) Ok, I can not go on any longer because it sounds like I am taking up for Microsoft too much (but I love gaming and Sony blows). My advice, if you like it... enjoy it, if not take it back. A law suit, that is freaking ridiculous... that is one problem with the American society today. (If there is a need to sue Microsoft, this is not it, but that is a differant discussion)
In closing to help me feel better about all that I have said, even though not really related to next generation gaming. Well, unless you have further plans for the 360 ;) ... Go Linux.
My 360 works fine and I have to unplug & unhook it each time I use it. I have a 18 month old son that loves buttons and lights. I also sell large appliances which have been made so much longer than the 360 and they have the same issues. That's why you get a warranty. I also have a PSP that has a couple of dead pixels but it warns me of that in the manual. If there's a class action suit for that...I'll jump on it but the 360 has been wonderful.
well all this shout about defective xbox 360's just makes me glad there is a thing called a warranty. what do you think they sell them for. Cant prove microsoft did it on purpose but can prove from a post on here that they will fix it. That dont sound like someone trying to screw the people, it will be a bigger pain in there ass to fix all the defective systems. Mine works fine so far and have a store warranty from K_MART to full replace it if there is a problem with it, or i send it to ole microsoft in that 2 year warranty that covers all costs for 60 bucks. dont be cheap and purchase insurance or you will get burned. thats life...and electronics are becoming like autos, warranties.
This is just another prime example of MS not really caring about the consumer. Unless you're not tech savvy or have been under a rock, then you know about the many problems that MS products have. They love money not people, and there work reflects that. Can you immagin the look of utter shock when people actually compaind that something didnt work?(laced with irony)
Anytime a company like Microsoft makes it big, they are a target to money hungry people. This is a obvious example. A hight tech piece of equipment like the 360 is bound to have problems. Computer chips can be randomly bad for no reason at all. I dont own a 360 yet, but I did get one of the first original Xboxs and had problems. MS took care of the problem very quickly. Just like complex software like Windows, problems happen.
I have used Linux the MS competition extensivily and have had just as many problems or more than windows.
When I bought the original xbox it was hard to find for the first month as well. And as far as rushing to market, MS has been working on the 360 since early 2002. 3 years does not seem like rushing to me...Dude in Chicago, stop being a Moron and buy a PS3. I wouldnt doubt if this guy planned the whole thing to sue as soon as people started saying they had problems. like people who sue Mcdonalds because they eat there 3 times a day and get fat....Just my 2 censt
I've had my XBOX 360 since Dec. 23rd 2005, I've had only 3 freeze ups, and they we're because of the live servers.
Yesterday, I had been playing Kameo, and I shut it off to go get my sister. I came home about 15 minutes later and it wouldn't read the disc. I open it to find the disc had been cracked around the base. How, I don't know. Since I'm the only person that touched the thing, and I never ejected the disc and was just playing 15 minutes before. I also now have scratchs on PGR3 .... and how that happend, I'd like to know as well since I'm very carful with these things, and there isn't anyone else to touch them. I'm getting worried my system is messing with the discs.
I got a xbox 360 and by the 3rd day my screen started having very detailed distorted graphics during game play. Called xbox customer support where there after was sent a return box with instructions to post the return lable on the outside of the return box and have my local DHL delivery company pick up the package to be returned to their repair center in Texas. The box didnt come with a return lable inside so i called to find out what the problem was with the return lable and was told that i would be overnighted a new box with a new return lable inside. I waited approx. 7 business days for a overnight delivery that I did not recieve on time. I then called back xbox support and was directed that i didnt need a new box and that all i needed to do was have my local DHL carrier print me up a return lable and to have DHL bill the sender. So thats what i did, and so after 3 additional weeks have went by and i still havent got my returned xbox, i called them back and asked them where was my xbox that i was suppost to be getting back in 3-5 business days. All i got in responce was; all they could do was send the repair center an email and they would call me back. This was a terrible mistake getting one of these new xbox360 and i definatly regret getting one.