Zen Vision:M caught in the wild

We just told you about it yesterday and already monsternet.org got their hands on the Creative Zen Vision:M. You know, Creative's answer to the 5G iPod sporting a 2.5-inch 320x240 screen with twice the video playing juice of the iPod (and twice the thickness) with support for not only MPEG-4 but also DivX 4/5 and XviD. They don't have a review up yet, but they throw down lots of hands-on pr0n. More snaps after the break including a side-by-side with the 5G iPod.

[Thanks, Jonathan Giam]

Zen Vision:M vs. 5G iPod. What�s up with the quality of this money-snap

Zen Vision (sans punctuation) and Zen Vision:M

[DM @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

How bout a side by side thickness comparision with the 5g ipod?

[tom.landy @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

looks like apples lawyers might sue quite a bit...even the interface is identical to the ipods! really cool device though, I'd still prefer the vision for movies on the go

[Gordon Kane @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Is there a possible commentary being made subconsciously with the UI? Apple's looks like a zero (0) and Creative's looks like a one (1).
Yes / No ?

[David Crowe @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

lol twice the thickness, or thereabouts?

http://monsternet.org/imgview/zenvisionmpreview/zenvisionm_appleipod3.jpg

[James @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Actually Tom (#2), it's the other way around - Creative were awarded the patent for the standard MP3 player interface back in August, and have now started the process of suing Apple for infringing that patent:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4510044.stm

[Wookiee @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Dear lord its even uglier (in black) than the black iPod! :o)
And as for the menus (the coloring inparticular) - look more inspired by WinXP/Fisher Price than by Apple...

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Now we know why they don't like to show the side view of their product. It looks like a boat!

[Austin @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I love this actually and from the shots non-blurry one of couse, the screen blows apples out of the water.. I also like the size, same thickness as my zen sleek, and personally thats perfect for me.. My friend had had 3 5th gen ipods and all have had hdd issues and I have to think about it since its sooo small, the smallness leads to the hdd failing since theres no room in side for it.. Also which I like a lot, is that its a wmp 10 compatable device, all i gotta do is plug it in, drag and drop all my divx,xvid,wmp,mpg, and avi to the sync tab in wmp 10 and bam there on the player, no easier than that. Also for the folks that keep saying creative copied this whole menu thing from apple, tech they didn't since a) they patent the entire idea (up to this point we have only seen it in black/white monochrome), there zen microphoto debut around the same time 4th gen ipod did with its same menu style, and the zen vision has the same menu, so really going as far as saying its the same is a little much... I think creative may have something good on there hands.

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I like. Hope the price is right, but I'm sure it will be much cheaper when I'm ready to purchase another device like this. (Currently own 20 gig iPod)

[Dale @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

It looks like a reject from the '80s Mattel handheld games division.

[OlivierB @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

If Creative is serious about taking some market share from Apple's iPods it better have two things:
a) Ability to playback AAC files. There is no way in hell I am re-ripping 5000 tracks again. No AAC no-go for me. I chose AAC because it sounds better than MP3. Non-geeks will have AACs by default as that it what iTunes converts to out of the box.

b) iTunes plug-in. All sorts of crap can be hooked up to iTunes including PSPs. Creative needs to stop sucking up to MSFT and be compatible with what people liek and want to use: i.e. Itunes. Sure it won't be compatible with iTMS but people will be able to conveniently manage their music as they would/do with their iPods currently.

As a side note, this thing is waaaay too thick for me to consider even carrying it on the daily commmute. However its Divx functionnality really appeals to me.

[Gedeon Maheux @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

That shot seems to show just as many scratches as the Nano, so its not just Apple having problems with abrasions. Creative can sue for the patent too if they want, but Apple has been using column navigation since NEXT. So good luck...

[Max Fun @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Actually, it looks like the screen is not as bright as the iPod. The photo is overexposed, but the screen on the Zen isn't, so I expect that Apple has the better screen. This tends to be the case for all the Apple wannabes; the specs look good, but the actual product isn't. The original Zen vision looked good on paper too, even the design looked pretty good. But when you actually try to experience the VGA screen, you find that it has the most horrible viewing angles. The iPod screen on the other hand, has much more humble specs, but the picture is crisp and the viewing angles wide. A class act.

I won't pooh-pooh this player until I see it, but I'm not going to have any high expectations of it, not like what I'd expect of iPods.

Gedeon, NEXT is a computer system, and this is a portable music player, so it's whoever patented the use of the UI in a similar machine that counts.

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

"the smallness leads to the hdd failing since theres no room in side for it."

You lost me right here.

[apeguero @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I used to own the Zen Micro and it too used to suffer from being easily scratched. The only players I've owned that didn't scratch as easily have been the Toshiba F30 Gigabeat and the iPod Mini. This thing looks like it's made of similar material as that of the Zen Micro and Zen Vision which is also what was used in the 4G iPods.

As for thickness, I'd like to see a side by side with a 4G iPod, maybe the iPod photo. It would be nice to see a side-by-side with the 60gb iPod 5G. I know, I know, unfair to place a 30gb player next to a 60gb player, but I'm happy with the thickness of the 60gb iPod 5G. I figure, if I was able to put up with the size of the iPod photo 30gb then I should have no problem with this one. Besides, I think the 30gb iPod 5G is a bit too thin and can be a little bit uncomfortable when navigating.

They should show or comment about any lag time in the UI. It's one thing I really hate about the new iPod 5G. I think the UI in the new iPods is really slow when comparing it to the iPod photo. I remember when using the Zen Micro that it was rather slow as well. I kind of like the UI on this Zen.

I agree with the two points OlivierB (#10?) made but would also like to add:

1. Sell it for $299.00 - straight competition with iPod 30gb.

2. Advertise the hell out of it.

3. Have some available for display at your Cambridge Soundworks stores for God's sake. Apple has a Sh*t load of iPods on display for people to try out.

4. If selling for $329.00 then they better also include the wall charger and/or cradle. They need justification for why their 2nd tier product is $29.00 to $39.00 more then the market leader. True, this one has and FM radio and voice recorder built-in but so do many other 2nd tier PMPs.

5. Have these ready and out to market before holiday season.

If they do all of this then I might give myself a Creative Zen Vision:M for Christmas :)

Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kuanza, Happy Ramadan, and Happy Winter Holiday everyone :)

[Trojan @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

What screenshots are you looking at Gedeon? None of the shots of the Zen there show any scratches I can see. What they DO show are fingerprints, which are easily wiped off.

[iBill @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

It looks like a cheap knockoff of the 5G iPod, lol. Sure, the kept that old rounded edges idea, and slapped on that suck-ass touchpad.. I mean god.. the thing looks like the iPod's ugly sister... Bunch of iPosers is what they are.

[Jersey @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Yay, this might be in fact an ipod killer!

Zen Vision M:

1. supports more video formats that iPod and does support the most popular of them

2. better quality display (4 x more colours then display at the same resolution)

3. better battery life for video and similar for audio

4. onboard FM radio

5. built-in Microphone

6. works seamlessly with Windows Media Player

7. does not require i-Tunes but it can work with i-Tunes as any player

8. it comes in 5 instead of just 2 colors

9. has customizable EQ, not just presets

Both Zen M ipod and iPod ipod look good, are very compact and sleek (as for 30GB). Zen is thicker but it is still thin and lite, and has, defenitely,
better features, battery life and comes in more colors.

Well done, Creative!

[Craig @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

i can understand if creative's players weren't initially as slim as the ipod, but don't you think they'd have figured it out by now? This is their fifth attempt (or thereabouts), and it's no slimmer than a 1st gen iPod. Creative, it's called reverse engineering!!

[iBill @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Not try to take thunder from this "extraordinary" device creative just happened to think up while reviewing their latest account history, but take a look at this photo...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/MElizabeth/zenvisionm_appleipod3.jpg

Now, it might just be my eyes, but does that look like the ipod is maybe... 50% thinner than creatives FrankenPod?

[Goran @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

in all fairness it looks very much like an ipod, BUT WHO CARES? It is enough different to make any legal action pointless, and it is enough similar to attract people who use iPod -and like design but wish to get better features...
It's cunning, wicked, well, it's ...smart.

Something to bring balance into the much Apple dominanted marketplace.

Good Job!!!

[bhaalspawn @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I don't see how you can say the Zen M is 'very compact and sleek' when it's twice as thick as the 5G. Creative got twice the batter life out of this thing by sticking in a battary that was twice as large-nice engineering there.

As a orevious poster said this thing really does look like the ipod's ugly sister- most people aren't going to care about the extra video formats since most people dn't know what they are and the touchpad might be alright to use but it just can't compete witht he scroll wheel. The advanatge this has over the ipod is the video playback time but again most people just won't care because they don't use video on the go. So what's left is a thicker, uglier player with no significant advantages over the 5G to the average consumer.

Creative have produced a player that competes with another one of its offerings for the geeks (the Vision) and fails when compared with the 5G ipod to consumers.

[Richard @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

More colours and equal resolution.

Hands down winna over the iPod.

[sheriffdane @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

QUOTE>>
"the smallness leads to the hdd failing since theres no room in side for it."

You lost me right here.
QUOTE<<

totally. wow.
zen needs to get a new guerilla PR guy...

[donut @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

that's a friggin brick compared to the iPod. Come on, that's like twice the thickness of an iPod!

[Silver @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Yeah Austin, good call with the "my friend had X number of iPods and they all died" and "the iPod is too small" lines. I've never heard those weak arguments before. As for the screen "blowing Apple's out of the water," the photos obviously suck. If you think that's what the iPod's display actually looks like, you're delusional. Why is it both photos of the side-by-side video comparison (both the blurry and the "clearer" one) have more light shining on the iPod display, making it look washed out? Hmm...

My diagnosis: chronic fanboyitis clouding rational thought.

This new Creative unit looks like a fat pig that offers a few features the iPod doesn't have that your typical consumer won't care about anyway. I'd love to see a worthy competitor to the iPod. This ain't it. Another "iPod killer" going down in flames. You get what you pay for. I love competitive innovation. I hate cheap imitators. Think Different, Creative. Geez.

P.S. Nice battery life indicator, "Creative."

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

This whole "we hate iPod" business is silly. You like this new Zen? Then you should thank Apple for coming up with the design. Obviously *Creative* isn't too creative because all they do is make carbon copies (albeit poor copies) of what Apple is doing.

Where's the innovation? An FM Tuner? FM radio sucks balls.

I notice some scratches on the photo of the black Zen. Are they going to be sued over it? No, because no one gives a squirt of piss about Creative's Zen.

[Glancing Aft @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

2times the mass for 2times the video playback...
Just get a reular Zen Vision if you're truelly are using it for video... If you plan to listen to music most of the time go with the ipod for the smaller size...

I must say I'm not a creative fan in the least, but this is a step in the right direction for them.

[Steve J. @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

@Donut, Silver.

Please come up with some arguments or leave. Flaming is never good and thickness argument is a non-sense one.

Zen M ipod is thicker that iPod ipod but both are small and light and some1 noted above. It does not matter alltogether, I am sure I'd rather go for 4 mm thicker casing if the player itself is better. Let's wait for review.

Zen Vision M looks very promising anyway.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

The side view clearly shows how pathetic the Zen really is.

And if Creative took the word Zen seriously, they wouldn't focus on features.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

@Steve J.

Why do you think, thickness is a non-sense argument?

Boy, this is about a MOBILE device! It's not about 4mm, it's about twice the iPod's thickness.

[Jersey @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

If it is a few mm difference in regard to one dimension I do not care about it.

Zen Vision M:

- supports divX and xVid and these are the most popular formats

- it has better quality display then iPod with 262 k colours compared to 64 k. It's like, what 4 x more colors. That's HUGE difference

- battery life that actually allows for viewing one or two movies, not just a 30 minute $10 show downloaded via iTunes

- onboard FM radio, voice recorder - these are nice, too

- comes in 5 colors, not just 2.

All in all it seems to be very good product. As far as the design goes, Creative was in the DAP market well before Apple. Touchpad is not Apple's invention, nor are the rounded edges.

Nice player, may get one for Xmas

[Leech @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

does an extra 4mm fit in your pocket? yes? then how does it matter... god people i didnt see you complaining about how big all the old players were.

[Steve J. @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

someguys, donuts and whatever your mums decided to call you. Please do not flame. This please seems to have no mod, but, nevertheless, do not make mess out of it.

@Chris: a few mm thickness does not make a jot of difference to me if player looks good and has better quality and features. It no brainer. Anyone but apple fanatics will prefer to get divx support, better quality display and fm tuner, even at the cost, of these few mm in thickness. On the other hand, it needs to feel and be sturdy, you know.

Both iPod and Zen Vision M are as lite as a chocolate bar, they are both extremally portable and look excellent. The fact is: both Zen and iPod look great. But it's not only design that matters. And here Creative seem to have excelled over iPod: Features and Quality.

[Timmee @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/5186/zen6wm.jpg

� 2.5-inch, 320x240 pixel color screen (18-bit)
� 30gb hard drive
� Plays MPEG2, MPEG4 SP (DIVX & XVID), WMV9 videos
� Plays MP3, WMA, and WMA DRM audio
� Displays JPEG images up to 8 megapixels in size
� Capability to zoom in on pictures
� Voice Recording
� FM radio, radio recording
� To do list, calander, contacts list
� Various colors available (black, white, green, pink, baby blue)
� Battery good for 14 hours music, 4 hours video (doubling the ipods 2 hours)
� Size: 62 ?104 ?19mm, weight: 166g
� Removable/Replaceable Battery

[trex @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

No TV-Out, no iTunes-like store for legal content, expensive, twice the thickness?

This will only appeal to geeks, period. There's no little to no chance that average consumers will choose this over the iPod with video.

Who are you guys kidding, seriously? Sure, you may not like Apple, but do you honestly this player will be more appealing to the masses compared to an iPod?

[Steve J. @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

What do you use TV out for when iPod's battery do not last long enough to play for a lenght of a movie. And you would not have movie on it in the first place as most movies are in divx or xvid these days. It's portable device and has perfect feature set for this type of player. Wonna TV out - get Zen Vision.

"Masses" are not dumb and will surely pick quality and feature over apple hype

[David T @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

#35: yup, no iTMS, but instead, you can choose from a large variety of stores that support WM DRM. instead of just one.

but i agree with you, it'll never be as popular as the iPod cuz in the minds of too many people, MP3 player = iPod.

[Paul @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Doesn't look too bad - and it does look like an ipod knockoff, but overall looks good.

My main concern would be price. There is no way in hell they can compete with the same price. They need to beat them by a significant amount - $100 minimum. Like it or not, you can't compete with the 'wow' factor (and ease of use) of the ipod - mind as well kill them on the price.

I'd consider one for significantly less money than the ipod.

[Goran @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

So it plays back DivX and Xvid movies! Great.
I may get this new Zen M ipod for Xmas this year. When does it come to Germany, does anybody know?

[Cartman @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

@ trex

Your arguments are flawed to say the least.

No TV-Out - How do you get TV on Ipod? You buy expensive cables. Why would you want to output 240x320 formatted video to a TV? It's going to look horrible.

no iTunes-like store for legal content - I guess you've never heard of Napster, Rhapsody, Yahoo, MSN, Walmart, Sony all having legal download service.

The thinkness is comparable to 3g Ipods, nothing to complain about.

[Dhomas @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

So, it's a little thicker. Big deal. Nobody complained about the 30g 4G iPod, and it was 16mm compared to the Zen's 19mm. So, what, 6 months ago a player this thick fit into everyone's pockets, but now pockets around the world have shrunk by exactly 8mm? I think the better battery life and additional file formats are a pretty good trade-off for the added bulk. But that's just me. When my mini's battery inevitably dies, maybe I'll give the Vision:m a spin.

[Goran @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

UPDATE: I checked other sites, it is going to be in Europe before Xmas. GREAT. Display looks really sweet. I guess price is higher then for ipod but you do not have to pay for accessories like fm tuner or skins. You are paying and you are getting all you want in one box, no need to buy anti-scratch condoms, too. I hate that when companies like apple rip you off limiting functionality to earn money selling them as add-ons.
FM tuner is a must for any mp3 player.
And here you get even an organizer. Cool stuff!

[trex @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

#36: TV-Out is not reserved for movies. Think of the prospect of being able to bring a bunch Family Guy episodes over to a friend's house and just Tv-Out...much better than trying to hover around a tiny screen.

#37: I meant there's no legal video content from an iTunes-like store (minus video podcasts).

[Adam Vaughan @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

We've run the UK's first hands-on early review here:
http://www.stuffmag.co.uk/hotstuffarticle.asp?de_id=912

Apologies in advance for the shameless self-promotion.

[bat @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Good move Creative! The battery is not user replaceable!!!

[Sam @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I am an apple fanboy.. and you would have to rip my iPod from my cold dead fingers.

HOWEVER... ignoring this is an obvious rip off of the 5G ipod, it is the first real serious competition to the iPod I have yet seen. I has a really nice range of features.

1) .avi playback
2) nice (obese iPod) look and colors (if you can't beat them on design, then join them... me too philosophy)
3) ease of navigation via iPod interface (patent battles pending)
4) great battery life
5) bright screen

While I don't think this will kill too many iPods, it should do better for them than anything they have produced to date.

[Silver @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Open your eyes and take another look, Some Guy. Both photos show the iPod display is clearly blown out. You can't even see the top edge of the iPod screen in the blurry photo it's so overexposed, and in the clear photo, you can see the desk in the background behind the iPod but not behind the Zen. The iPod display obviously looks like crap in these photos because the photos suck. If the iPod's display is brighter, then crank down the exposure on the photo to make the iPod display look good. Then the Creative's will look dark and crappy. Duh. But, um, that would damage the iPod-hating rants, wouldn't it?

Try thinking before flaming.

Creative gives you more colors (a good thing) more battery life (a good thing) extra features most buyers don't care about, and they do it all in a twice-as-thick package (a bad thing) that costs $30 more (a bad thing) with an arguably poorer user experience (Windows Media Player???). Yeah, looks like a winner. :|

[Gordy @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

I hope that they do gain some ground, so that Apple will increase the supported audio & video formats supported on iPod. I'm sure that one reason they hadn't yet is because most torrents are XViD, and the networks don't play that.

iPod owner here.

At first glance, this just looks like a knock off. And noone admits to buying 'knockoffs'. I call them TryPods.

Creative has a better chance of beating Apple in the courtroom...though, as referenced above (NeXT), that doesn't look likely either.

[mike @ Dec 19th 2005 2:06AM]

Yay, this might be in fact an ipod killer!

--

Try again. they lied about storage and battery life. i thought that shit was done when Sony tried it. read the fine print.

furthermore, it's fatter, uglier, and in less outlets than the iPod.. (like.. the iTMS for one)

also..it's more expensive. cute huh?

yeah.. such a nice screen.. perfect for.. FM RADIO!??!