Creative: "Just try it, Apple"

In what could be easily construed as a preemptive strike against Apple legal, Creative's Sim Wong Hoo has gone on record stating that they will "pursue aggressively" companies that are infringing on their patent for a media player interface. He went on to say: "Hopefully this will be friendly, but people have to respect intellectual property." Their patent basically covers the use of a hierarchal menu structure for navigating media, which clearly encompasses the iPod's interface, even though it might have been in development at the time of the patent filing. This announcement comes on the heels of Creative releasing the Zen Vision:M player, which seems to "borrow" some Apple design elements. Sim denies any such copying, saying that their player has been in development for more than a year, and he also takes a swipe at Apple, stating that their player's FM and mic functions mark the "difference between a technology company and a branding company." Ooh, harsh.

[Thanks, CoreyTheGent]

[Jason Karuza @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

CREATIVE OWNS IPOD!

[Doc Fox @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Oh God. Who really cares about this? It's just Creative being petty, instead of coming up with a genuine, interesting and creative alternative to the ipod.

There are a lot of people out there who would like to buy something other than an ipod - instead of carping on about infringement of patents, Creative should try and cater to their needs.

And PS - if you're putting in a radion, please please please put in an AM one too. The major thing I would listen to on the radion is sport, and that's mostly on AM.

[wako @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Creative just needs to realize that their mp3 players are inferior to Apple. They should just stick with sound cards. Thats the only thing their good at.

[MaC01 @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

boo hoo, get over it creative!

[Doc Fox @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Ooops. Obviously I meant "radio". What's a radion...?

[MaC01 @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

wako: "Creative just needs to realize that their mp3 players are inferior to Apple. They should just stick with sound cards. Thats the only thing their good at....." i couldnt agree more!

[Chris McDowell @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Actually their are some sound cards out there that are nice that arent creative.....Some of the built in stuff is very decent. My G5 has optical in and out and works great. Some other motherboards for pc's already all support that now too. I did have a pair of their speakers on my pc but now I am using Logitech.

[Pnarse @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Hehe... He's obviously pissed off because he can't understand why the iPod is selling so much more when it doesn't even have a microphone!!!

I mean who would want to listen to their music without a microphone?! ;D

[garbuhj @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Also, don't be fooled by the way the player is presented in these photos that borders on fraud. The face plate is highly colorful. The background color of the photo is bright white. What this does is conceal the large thickness of the play which is also nearly the same bright white. The creative player is significantly thicker than the iPod. The way they try to conceal that in the image is enough to make me want to steer clear of this company.

[SG7 @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I hate the iPod. Why? "Podcasting." Some dumb ass puts an MP3 on a web site for download and all of a sudden its a "podcast" what if you don't listen to it on an iPod? What is it then? God, how I hate the podcasts.

[Conradzoo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I Hate the iPod. Why? Pop music. Everybody puts pop musicon it and call it music. Ridiculous.

[Rob @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I have a Zen Touch (fatpod, as I call it) but I see Creative still isn't gettting over the size issue - I would hope it has much better battery life than a 30GB Ipod if it's going to be thicker.

It really is quite sad - no company seems to be able to put up any kind of fight against Apple. Sony still thinks they can get away with Sonic Stage and the Sen Vision just doesn't seem to have its own identity. Still, Creative's sound quality on their players deserves credit.

[Billy Zane @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

SG7 - Podcasting has just become a generic term, don't get so stressed. I've got a Dyson and I still "do the hoovering".

Have a listen to a Chris Moyles podcast and that will cheer you up.

[Shane Ritchie @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"What's a radion...?" - Doc Fox

I'm pretty sure it was a washing powder here in the UK haven't seen it in about a decade though. Doubt there's much of a market for a cleaning product with AM receiving capabilites.

[Bob Rutherford @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I Hate the iPod. Why? Because Steve Jobs has considerably more money than me.

[Doc Fox @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

#13 Shane Ritchie - I don't know why you're doubting the AM Radio / Washing powder combo - I think you may have hit on a marketing coup here.

Alternatively, a clothes hanger with a penknife/torch/salad spinner attachment could be useful.

[DM @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Apple is a branding company all right.... All they do is outsource the production of the ipods and slap their name on it... And they don't even bother to innovate cause they have the majority of the mp3 player market now

[Mat @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Guys please! Can you all just keep your stupid comments to yourselves! As if anyone will ever market an AM Radio/washing powder combo!
FM is the future! I've seen it! (well actually Lord Jobs told me I needed it)

[john @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I hate the iPod. Why? Songs. Everyone just puts collections of ones and zeros on their iPods and calls them songs. Delusional.

[Mattintosh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

So I suppose since you patent something like hierarchal menu structure you own it? Wait a minute. So filing systems have worked with this method for years, how the FUCK can some shit for brains company patent that? Lucky draw. I mean so I guess their next target is Microsoft, because ya know Mr. Wong Hoo *whispers* (their media center software uses the SAME type of menu structure!) OMG WTF!!!1!1one1one

[JD @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I think at the least, they should change their name from "Creative" to "Imitative" or "UnCreative"...whatever you prefer, "Creative" doesn't really fit, does it?

[Liam @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"I hate the iPod. Why? "Podcasting." Some dumb ass puts an MP3 on a web site for download and all of a sudden its a "podcast" what if you don't listen to it on an iPod? What is it then? God, how I hate the podcasts."

I think it must be Fly Fishing for me... Or "RiverCasting"

Har. Har. Har. GET IT?!

[xbit @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I Hate the iPod. Why? Because it's popular and I want to be different.

[Totalfixation @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Quote
"I hate the iPod. Why? "Podcasting." Some dumb ass puts an MP3 on a web site for download and all of a sudden its a "podcast" what if you don't listen to it on an iPod? What is it then? God, how I hate the podcasts"

Even if you dont play it on an Ipod its still called podcasting, the Ipod was made after podcasting became a term. So just to remind you, apple just added the I to the Ipod. What, you think Apple came up with Itunes all by themselves as well? Come on now the only thing they made up was the I. So dont hate on people who make podcasting or use the term podcasting for there "mp3 on a website." btw, just want to say i give props for people who make podcasting available to the public.

[peteremcc @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

i would get a creative in an instant if it were as small as the ipods... just too big, thats the main reason i upgraded from photo to video too not for the video.

[James @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I find it peculiar how such a number of people feel that Creative's players are inferior to Apple. I agree their control scheme may be less intuitive but the Creative player's sound quality is second to none. Show me an ipod with a 96 dB SNR and then maybe they could at least be competitive in performance. The reason Apple's pods have done so well, is great marketing.

[William McIntyre @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Actually the reason why iPod is the market killer is not because it's that much better (although the click wheel is blatantly an inspirational interface controller) or because of marketing, its because Apple from day one, went for ease of integration with iTunes, something all the others in the 4 years of scrambling around somehow haven't figured out yet.

Get over it Creative.

[furtim @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"Their patent basically covers the use of a hierarchal menu structure for navigating media..."

In a just world, this would be laughed out of the patent office.

[Alex @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

#23: I don't know about Creative's latest range, but for the last generation iAudio and iRiver had the best sound quality; better than both Apple and Creative.

Google for results, or go and have a listen yourself.

[Kevin @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Apple's iPod is grossly overrated. Why limit yourself to Apple's iTunes music store and their audio format? The whole iPod buying craze sounds a lot like the "Lemmings"...foolishly, without thinking, and in large numbers.

[JasonK @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"I don't know about Creative's latest range, but for the last generation iAudio and iRiver had the best sound quality; better than both Apple and Creative."

I agree. Especially out of the headphone jack. However, if you get a pocketdock for the iPod and hook it up to a portable amp, the sound is actually not bad at all.

[Kodiak @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

How is buying an iPod or buying music off iTunes a limit? Its not like WMA secure off napster or the like is any more un-limited. I'm just limiting myself to Windows and WMP software.

Of course everyone forgets I could just buy a normal CD and then copy it onto my iPod (as I currently do). Shock and horror!

[quis @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"Apple's iPod is grossly overrated. Why limit yourself to Apple's iTunes music store and their audio format? The whole iPod buying craze sounds a lot like the "Lemmings"...foolishly, without thinking, and in large numbers."

When you buy another PMP you're limiting yourself to FairPlay compatible stores. There may be more, but it's still a limit. Try buying CDs or paying www.allofmp3.com a visit. It's cheaper, better audio quality and no DRM.

[CreativeNot @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Am I the only who think the blue control buttons are just too tacky? The chief can say whatever he likes, but Creative's "brisk" MP3 player sales will speak the loudest.

[Max Fun @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I haven't tried any of the newer Creative players, but I remember the old Nomad players were pretty sweet. For one thing, there are many buttons, so you don't have to scroll backwards and forwards in the iPod to get from one menu to the next. Also, Creative had a search function. Really handy when you just want to find a song, and you can't remember the album.

The final thing that that the Creative players win over the iPod is that you can create play lists on the go, save them and even change them. The iPod took so long to implement some sort of Playlist-on-the-go thing, and you can only create one each time because you need to use iTunes to save and rename it, and you can't change any of the saved playlists.

But, I have an iPod instead of Creative or iRiver players, because I like the looks... kind of vain (and gay), but I've learnt my mistakes.

[Patrick @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I actually went out to buy a Zen Micro... but then saw the 20gb Zen Touch...and for the extra capacity and price, I thought "Why not?"... but then I saw the Zen Touch sitting next to a beautifully designed (aesthetically) 30gb black 5g iPod.. 30gb for 300 bux... it's a slippery slope, it really is. But the size difference between them convinced me on it. It's not that it's more popular. Sure, Creative offers better audio quality.. but it's a portable music player... chances are you're going to be on a bus, train, in a car... I use it when I'm at work in a UPS warehouse.. it's amazingly loud there. Audio quality is actually the least of my concerns there.. so long as it doesn't sound like absolute crap. I didn't give in to Apple because of marketing or style. I gave in because 10 bux per gig was hard to turn down, when Creative wants just a few more bux for a player with things I'll never use.
I agree.. a player with AM radio would be FAR more useful to me than one with FM radio. The reason I use an mp3 player to begin with is to get away from the 45 minutes of commercials every hour on the radio only to hear the same exact song played after the commercial break finally ends. And to be honest, if Neal Boortz offered a podcast, I'd probably not even listen to AM radio anymore.
As for those people concerned with audio quality... what good is a 96db SNR, when you're using FM radio anyway? "Wow! I can hear how crappy the FM is even better now!"

As for www.allofmp3.com ... I've dropped a good 60 bux into that site, and I'm nothing but satisfied. Apple should learn from them.
but dangit, SHUT UP ABOUT IT! Don't let the world know it exists. As soon as RIAA realizes it's a viable threat to them, they'll find some way to shut them down. So.. what i'm trying to say is... allofmp3.com sucks ;) *wink*

By the way, on the link earlier today with the photos of the zen vision:m vs the ipod w/ video... as a photographer, I'm appalled at the sneaky trick by the photographer... they showed the two side-by-side, and the picture on the zen was beautiful.. vibrant colors and such, and the ipod was all washed out... that's just a photographic trick. The camera/photographer metered the zen, and as a result, it overexposed the ipod, which means the ipod actually has a far brighter screen.

I'm not trying to blindly sing apple's praises... but I agree.. they're successful because of their ease. If a 12 year old girl can pick one up and use it and figure out how to send songs to it, then why shouldn't it be successful? Why hate on apple because their entire business revolves around making things easier for people?

Like I said.. I went in to buy a Creative... walked out with an Apple. And I like this thing even more than I thought I would.

But I digress..

[Simonjp @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Er, Totalfixation, are you sure that podcasts came before iPods? Ben Hammersley believes he coined the word, and the page I linked has a link to the Wikipedia article which states it was first used in the Guardian on 12 February 2004. The iPod was first available in 2001.

[JL @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

You iPod/apple fans are just pissed because creative beat apple to the punch with regards of putting a patent on the player menu system.

I personally see this as a way not so much to sue apple, but to get apple off of their sue-happy tactics..

You all cheer when apple does it. Sounds like to me creative is in a position to give apple a little of it's own medicine.

Anything but iPod for me, thank you..

[thomas_h @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"Some guy

I'd love to see Creative's patent give a good slam to apple and DENY them of any further production of an ipod with such a UI.

At least this way thered be a little less iWhores polluting the streets with shoddy mp3 players that cant even last 10 hours per charge."


My iPod Mini 2G lasts over 20 hours per charge. cant complain about that. in tests, it sometimes ran for 26 hours.

[sk @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Like the black berry, the Ipod has to be stopped by a judge. It's a clear patent infringement and this can't be allowed otherwise we end up everyone copying everyone.

[VM @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"Apple's iPod is grossly overrated. Why limit yourself to Apple's iTunes music store and their audio format? The whole iPod buying craze sounds a lot like the "Lemmings"...foolishly, without thinking, and in large numbers."

Here's an equally valid question:

Why not? The songs work on any both my Mac and Windows machines. I can burn it to a disc to listen to in my car. I can download it to my iPod to listen at the gym. I can stream it to my stereo to listen to it in the living room. For me, the DRM might as well not even be there because as a user I don't see it.

[lord_nelson @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

GO!! Creative, Apple needs to be taken down a peg or two. Creative is certainly more open on what video or audio format you can play on its players.

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"Apple's iPod is grossly overrated. Why limit yourself to Apple's iTunes music store and their audio format?"

3,600 songs on my iPod, and every single one of them's a LAME-encoded mp3.

What was that you were saying?

[Teo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I think this patent has been wrongly awarded as mac osx has used this type of navigation in the finder for years (column view).

This whole ip thing is getting stupid, soon someone will patent walking and charge everyone for the priveledge...

[o0adam0o @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I dont even have a single track of Itunes music store music...so not sure what some are talking about.

Anyways, Apple has been doing its fair share of lawsuits...what goes around comes around. I hope Apple looses and has to pay up, they are a little too "full of themselves" right now and maybe a little "humiliation" will make them improve reevaluate their strategies and maybe make some changes for the better...

Im no fanboy, i can care less about the company (apple), I only care about the products i buy and how they affect me personally...

[DG @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

"When you buy another PMP you're limiting yourself to FairPlay compatible stores. There may be more, but it's still a limit. Try buying CDs or paying www.allofmp3.com a visit. It's cheaper, better audio quality and no DRM."

I really feel uncomfortable giving my credit card information to a Russion website. I think that's a valid concern.

You know how Creative could sell me a music player? Drop the price $100 below iPod. That's the only way I'm noticing them.

[brandon @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

as a proud owner of multiple ipods from each generation and other mp3 players, i do agree that apples patent is retarded, but comments such as "i dont like the ipod because its mainstream" are retarded. it didnt become mainstream over night. it became mainstream after good reviews and having things that nothing else has to offer. ok, so the new ipod wasnt the first video player. but it was the first commercial video player that was. executed in such a way..

[Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Apple has a few billion in the bank. They should just but out Creative and close them down. I am sick of Creative getting press because they have a dillusional CEO. When I worked in the Apple store I talked to GRANDMOTHERS who would ask me questions like "does anyone else make an iPod" Apple owns this market AND they do it through superior products.

[snarkey @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

Take a look at their finanaces:

AAPL
CREAF

Creative has no profit margin, even on a big jump in revenue. What's the strategy here? Lose money on every unit, but make it up in volume? You have to admire Sim Wong Hoo's spunk, but they can't bleed red ink for too much longer.

A patent-infringement lawsuit against Apple would be a disastrous misstep that would suck every penny out of Creative's meager hoard, and in the end, they would probably lose anyways: Apple has three decades of user-interface patents of its own with which to counter Creative's claims.

Creative should stick to improving its products, and if they want to stay in the DAP space, they need to simplify their offerings. For instance, can you tell me the difference between the Micro, the Sleek, the Zen, the Zen Touch, the Microphoto, the Neeon, the Xtra, The Nano Plus, the MuVo, the MuVo2, MuVo Slim, MuVo Sport, The MuVo TX, the MuVo NX? How about the humble Digital MP3 Player FX2000?

Come on Sim, take a deep breath and focus: you're all over the map, bro.

[o0adam0o @ Dec 19th 2005 2:31AM]

I dont think Apple is superior, just has better marketing schemes. In todays world, almost everyones life is based on trends, fashion and "whats hot".

Apple has not created a "great product" but created a "CULTURE".....Im not even sure why i got my Ipod Photo...i just thought i was cool to have one, it looked nice with what i wore out and it has been a great conversation starter with chicks....call me what u want but thats the truth.

I have had so many people think an Apple Ipod is and MP3 player and not a just a brand....this just shows ipod is all marketing...they created more than just a physical product...altho it is user friendly...but thats about it...