Creative Zen Vision:M reviewed by CNET Asia: receives 8.2/10
posted Dec 9th 2005 8:00AM
The Creative Zen Vision:M
spotted in the wild yesterday just got its first, proper
review posted over at CNET Asia. They slap down an "excellent" 8.2/10 rating stoked by the fact that the Vision:M supports not
only MPEG-4 video but also the other major video codecs including DivX and XviD. They also liked
the
"scorching" fast transfer speeds albeit using a new proprietary port (bye bye, mini USB)
and Creative's improved vertical scroll for navigating those fully customizable menus. Of course, as expected that 2.5-inch 262k
color screen was
deemed "brilliant". On the
downside, some reviewers found the keys stiff and the unit to be an unattractive fatty — almost twice as thick as the iPod. They
found the battery to pump 15 hours of looped MP3s, but sadly don't confirm (or deny) the claimed 4 hours of vid life.
However, they are still finalizing the video tests so we'll just have to wait and see. And just to fuel the iPod vs.
everything-else fanboy fire a bit — you might recall that they gave the
5G video iPod an 8.3 rating just a few months ago. Now
have at it dear readers and please remember, the first rule of the comments section is that no one talks about the comments
section.
[Thanks, patsy tam]
Appleinsider calls it a blatant ipod ripoff... apple fanboyz eh...
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1407
No iPud zealots all over this yet? Wow.
Whoops, posted too late ;-)
$339.00 is too high a price for this device. Creative will not sell as many if it can't give people insentive to buy this over the 30gb iPod video. The battery, at least, is removable so one can always just carry an extra battery which one cannot do with the iPod, except for those external backup batteries. That's where the size of this device may become moot when comparing to the iPod 30gb - replaceable battery. Also, they should do a side by side with the 60gb iPod video which claims 4 hours of video as well.
Come on Creative, lower the price or include some extras like an extra battery and a wall charger then you'll give yourself a chance at taking some of Apple's market share.
$339.00? Forget it. Not interested when a better supported iPod is less.
What a stupid decision and one more DAP that won't change the marketplace.
Not bad. Anyone know when it will be available in the US?
I agree with 'apeguero' that they will have a hard time competing with Apple at this price point. Not to mention iTunes/iPods are getting buzz because you can buy/transfer television shows - never mind the quality, transfer limitations, or price.
Here's my question... is double battery life worth the extra thickness? Also, based on some pictures that have been posted this device isn't much smaller than the Zen Vision - so for 70 bucks more do you go whole hog? I guess that depends if the screen on how the screen on the new model compares to the Vision.
Personally, the Archos AV500 is the device I'm lusting after. The price is somewhat steep, but maybe I'll be getting some holiday gift cards. ;)
Isnt the VISION $399 also?
Good God... I think I will wait for the nano rip-off of the luxpro. Hahahaha.
Is it just me or doesn't that vertical scroll thing remind you of Goat-se?
Something about the design also screams Fisher Price to me as well.
If it won't play the season of "Lost" I bought and downloaded from iTMS, then forget it. Seeing how it doesn't support "Fairplay" I highly doubt it will. Also, why is this thing so fat? It seems electronics are just like people, when they're fat their usually lazy and have a few other bad habits as well.
Will this ship with a white earbud also?
Not to sound like a 'fanboy' but you have to give credit where credit is due. Apple created the iPod/iTunes combo to be so freaking simple; even your grandparents can ues it. I plug in my iPod in the morning and it does the rest. Syncs with iTunes and download all my latest Playlist and subscribed podcasts, that's it. Can this Creative:M do the same thing without me taking a Geek Class first.
Will this ship with a white earbud also?
Not to sound like a 'fanboy' but you have to give credit where credit is due. Apple created the iPod/iTunes combo to be so freaking simple; even your grandparents can ues it. I plug in my iPod in the morning and it does the rest. Syncs with iTunes and download all my latest Playlist and subscribed podcasts, that's it. Can this Creative:M do the same thing without me taking a Geek Class first.
I will probely ditch my 20gb ipod for this it has twice the video time as the ipod. I had a creative zen micro before and it was phinominal creative has a great reputation wit me. The whole scrool wheel is much more fun than the click wheel just takes time getting used to.
I love how little they mention the actual audio quality. I think the actual quote is
"In terms of audio, the Zen Vision: M certainly delivered the goods when it came to the base line. The low end was tight and powerful enough without the need to activate the bass booster. For the mids and highs, there was detailed articulation though we felt the sound was a little too clean at times."
Now, seriously. What the f*** Cnet? Isn't this a freaking AUDIO PLAYER? That's the last paragraph in the review! FELT THE SOUND WAS A LITTLE TOO CLEAN? Dear... sweet... Jesus. "Audiophiles" they call themselves. Right. Bet your Bose Triports sounded reallllll good on that, didn't it fellas?
Well, it'll play the season of Lost I downloaded free with Bittorrent, that's more than I can say about the iPod.
I gotta say, I like the looks of it. I promised myself I won't buy another player until April, so we'll see what the competition looks like then. But I won't buy a player that doesn't support music subscriptions, so the iPod is out for me.
I'd pay $330 for it with the bundle it has. For an iPod, that stuff Creative bundles would probably cost around 40 bucks or more. You get your monies worth with the purchase.
Wow! $299 to $339 must be a HUGE jump in price for you. More features costs more money. This is the iPod that should have been.
"...though we felt the sound was a little too clean at times"
Hahaha. What do you expect? CNET likes their sound dirty ;-)
FWIW, I downloaded an episode of BSG off of iTMS, and played it fullscreen on a 23" LCD monitor (usually quite unkind even to DVDs)
The quality was better than cable. I know the stats argue otherwise (in re resolution), but what this has that cable does not is _no_visual_noise_, which I find far more irritating than what is effectively interlaced video (All cable is interlaced).
Now I'm not sold on watching video on either of these players, but I will say one thing. I majored in CS, I now work as a systems analyst. I had a succession of mp3 players prior to my current iPod. Each one I stopped using after a month or two because it was too damn annoying to use. Not too hard; anyone can learn to use any of these devices, but sufficiently non-intuitive that I didn't want to keep using it after the rush of buying it had faded.
I've had my iPod for over a year, and I don't find using it irritating. That is the feature Creative needs to strive for. I have friends who have WMA DAPs. They all stop using them because none of them is pleasant to use after a while.
Not better battery life (12 hrs, 24 hrs, couldn't care), not more formats (if I can get everything I want in the format it plays, why do I care about others?). It has to be pleasant to use, after some time has passed.
That review is complete bullcrap. You can't review something without going over all the aspects of it. If you leave things out, you don't have a complete review. That's like if you were to review a car and base the review off that gas pedal and the radio.
"If it won't play the season of "Lost" I bought and downloaded from iTMS, then forget it."
Sorry but i think its kinda sad that they make you PAY for something you can record for FREEE! i just download each episode after it comes out on a torrent.
slash: I'm not a poor college student (I suspect neither is the other poster), and as such I don't feel I need to steal anymore. The record companies are indeed asses, but I do sort of want to give subpop records (not one of the big 5) and the bands in question money for what I am getting, and I want BSG's ratings to go up, SciFi to have the money to make more of it, and more like it.
Sure in college its somewhat more reasonable to BitTorrent whatever, but do recall, there are a lot more people who have graduated college and aren't eating ramen than that are in it. Paying $25 for a season of video is quite frankly preferable to waiting for crappy BT seeds to send me the files over the course of 30-60 hrs. It's just not that much money. (and its higher quality than cable; I have an eyetv for the Daily Show etc, but for this, well, I'd rather have it w/o the visual noise.)
What motivation would anyone have for buying this chunk-style player, anyways? The thought process must go something like this:
"Hmmm. Those 5G iPods are really sweet, and I really, really want one, but I hate Apple so darn much, I just won't do it (grumbles.)
Hey! What's this? Creative has a player that looks just like the iPod! It does all of the same things, kind of. And I don't mind having to rip/transcode/resize/load songs, photos, and videos all on my own. I am a +18 Linux palladin after all.
And what's this? It's only $40 dollars more than the iPod 30GB? Well I'd say that's a bargain if I don't have to be seen with a stupid Apple product. And I don't mind paying Creative more: I want them to stay in business. Vision:M here I come. As soon as mom comes home with the car."
so...does this work with a mac?... itunes?...
Competition is good. Period.
>> ...though we felt the sound was a
>> little too clean at times"
> Hahaha. What do you expect?
> CNET likes their sound dirty ;-)
In this case, clean refers to it being too high pitched, ie: not balanced.
Rahul, I hate to break it to you, but lots of shows on BT are HD nowadays. I have an eyeTV 200, on which my girlfriend and I record and watch many shows (the Daily Show among them). I also frequently purchase seasons of TV (every Flying Circus and Aqua Teen episode, for instance)
However, if my girlfriend misses Alias or Gilmore Girls or whatnot (I really don't watch TV very seriously, so I don't do this), she downloads it from BT or DC++, and the quality far exceeds that of my eyeTV. HD shows are sent as an MPEG2 stream, which can be captured on the viewing end and written straight to a file, the quality of which exceeds DVDs (and, obviously, analog DVRs and iTMS stuff). Watching the shows in VLC on a widescreen laptop is a treat I've never had with a normal TV (since I've never had HD or a receiver ( and yes, I'm a 'poor' college student)). And while BT does take hours, the DC++ hub here is local to our campus and only accepts addresses within the campus network, so we get at least 10mpbs on files there.
Just thought you should know.
I've never heard "clean" refer to "too high pitched." And I spend a lot of time on Head-Fi.org. They might have been trying to say "bright" but that isn't necessarily bad... basically, I don't think these guys know sh** about audio quality. They don't even mention what they were listening through... stock earbuds don't cut it for a review of an audio player.
Just made a call to Creative and the $329 price includes a wall charger. I think that may be what the different in price is. Recall that the Ipod 30GB is $299 and to get a wall charger is another 29.99. I would get a wall charger anyway, so this is a no brainer for me, Zen Vision M.
Does anybody happen to know if it has an a/v out or Infrared remote like the Zen Vision?
"Wow! $299 to $339 must be a HUGE jump in price for you. More features costs more money. This is the iPod that should have been."
No doubt this has more features than the iPod. It better, considering it's twice the size. But I have plenty of iTMS downloads (see previous post about the whole being out of college and willing to pay for music thing above), my files are nicely stored and displayed in iTunes, and I'm not about to switch to player that will only offer me the ability to listen to bad FM radio or watch pirated video.
If Creative wants to be noticed in the marketplace, selling an iPod lookalike for more than the iPod isn't going to do it.
Not to pick on you Rahul Sinha or to put words on slash's mouth but these programs are already free. If he feels like going the extra effort to keep it that way then he has every right to do so. Buying already played shows that are either free on air tv or already paid for in Cable is for those that either don't know how to or don't care about the work that it takes to convert these programs to play. One can record these programs in many different ways and then convert them to the format required by the PMP used or one can download said programs from bittorrent. No one is really stealing any of these shows since no one is using them to make a profit or encouraging or facilitating people to make profits from them. These shows are either already paid for (with your Cable subscription fees) or are free if you watched them over the air! Besides, they are already getting enough from advertisers. These people aren't struggling musicians that constantly get corn-holed by RIAA. Getting them into your PMP of your choice is no different than recording them in your VCR and then playing that tape at a later time at different locations. The $1.99 you pay for in iTunes, and slash refuses to pay, is for the convinience of the conversion and packaging. You shouldn't go around acusing people of stealing unless you have your facts right! I happen to like to service of ITMS so I may eventually buy hard to get stuff there but not current shows that I am already paying for with my Cable bill.
#19: slash: I'm not a poor college student (I suspect neither is the other poster), and as such I don't feel I need to steal anymore.
wha wha...
Seriously, what's the moral difference of taping and downloading a show that I've paid for through my satellite company? How am I denying them one red cent?
I have the 60g iPod video. I was holding out for something for a few years that never happened, a decent rival for the iPod. all of them were larger that the iPod, and for me, a commuter on the subway, less is more... to a point.
Speaking of commuting, I find that a 30 minute TV show is perfect if you commute on mass transit. Any longer than that, I might get annoyed holding it.
I would actually consider this device though, the problem I have with the iPod video is the lack of a decent DVD/Video converter. I've been trying to use PQDVD, which is very fast, I capture a 30 min show in about 5 minutes. Often when it comes to my TV show DVDs, the naviation simply doesn't work. I've sent emails to support, and no reply. This could be an awesome app if they would get their sh*t together. Sure you can spend hours ripping to VOB, then another couple hours converting to QT. One format?? What a bunch of crap!
I want to pop in my DVDs and capture a file (just like PQDVD is supposed to) and drop it on the player. i don't want to D/L movies from iTunes, most TV is crap, and so they don't have anything I want anyway...
Personally I don't like being restricted to using one company's apps or codecs for something like this. Apple is fast becoming the Microsoft of Media... I don't mean that in a good way.
People wake up!! I keep hearing that this is for geeks because you can't buy content from itunes and that Apple is so non-geek. Guess what!!!??? 1) What about the thousands upon thousands of hours worth of content that you can't buy from itunes? You can only put that stuff on your ipod in some backasswards way. Same as the M. Only with the M you have more format option.
2)You're on a gadget site therefore you are a geek. And... the fact that you can't figure out how to get movies onto the M makes you a stupid geek.
Rahul is an asstard. People that LOVE their shows MIGHT buy them, but usually don't. Hell, there are shows that DON'T box their seasons for sale. It is better for the broadcasters to get their content out any way possible, since this generates viewership, and thus profits.
Oh, and if I want to see a show... I generally want to see it right now, before the DVDs are out. So your post is stupid both financially, and in practicality.
Personally, I am a poor college kid. $25 is a lot for me. I'd definitely go with the Creative. It might not look as nice to some (although, personally I think it looks better than the iPod), and it might not be as small, but really... It's an MP3 player, not a fashion accessory (The iPod is a fashion accessory to some, that's for sure). 15 Hours of audio? Rock on. 4 Hours of video? Awesome. And, what's that? I can carry an extra battery so if I have a 30 hour trip I can swap one out for hte other without the need for an electrical outlet? Awesome. The last one doesn't effect me, but for some people it will.
And, to me, the extra time it'd take to download tv shows from seeds is worth it. And quality isn't a huge factor because you are watching it on a 2.5" screen. As long as it is a decent quality, you'll be fine.
On a side note, I'd like to see someone take the guts out of one of these and stick them in a Gameboy SP. Use the screen from the player, the scrollbar could be re-wired to the D-pad, and the 4 buttons to start, select, a, and b. Hah, how rad would that be?
"Paying $25 for a season of video is quite frankly preferable to waiting for crappy BT seeds"
Paying $25 for a DVD is quite frankly preferable to an iTunes rip. Too bad you can't watch DVD-compliant MPEG-2 on either the Z:M or the iPod.
Oh wait! You *can* watch MPEG-2 on the Z:M. Silly me.
jimmy johnson > Thank you
Umm....iPod video Much?? This thing should be under the "bootleg iPod section" its so uggly...yet the meues are so familiar
Could someone please explain to me what the big deal about this player is? Creative's Zen Vision (original flavor) is a much better video player (it has a better screen, which should be the first thing you look at), as are the Cowon A2 and several offerings from Archos. I understand that not everybody needs or wants portable video, but if you're not interested in it, why even consider a portable video player?
I really don't understand why, when the portable video section of Engadget lists so many really different and full-featured video players, the ones that generate the most interest, by about two orders of magnitude, are the iPod, an audio player with video shoehorned into it, and this Creative Zen Vision:M, which seems to be a knock off of the aforementioned iPod.
Quote from "The $1.99 you pay for in iTunes, and slash refuses to pay"
its not that i refuses. for 1. i dont have an ipod lol and 2. i still just dont believe you should pay even a cent for something that you can download for free. now when it comes out on DVD or something thats a different story(hint hint then it would be illegal). id gladly buy it on DVD once it comes out.
I would like to add #36 post. I am sure this thing will be of a much more durable build than your fanboys POS ipod. No need to frantically try to keep it scratch free and I'm sure it will out do ipod's pathetic 11 times drop test. It's worth the money to buy something that actaully won't fall apart on you or get scratched on your first day.
Yeah, competition is good, and sure it has some extra features- that's all well and good. But, a lot of people aern't going to care what's under the hood, and will want something pretty. In that respect, this is just an Apple ripoff. When I saw the picture, I figured the story was about how Apple was gonna be suing. The design is so unoriginal, it's amazing. Still, I like some of what I hear. Hopefully Apple will reverse-copy and upgrade the color and battery soon.
hmmm... It has an A/V out, but replaceable battery seems to be a mystery, and bye bye regular ol' USB. These last two are key for me. A dock might look cool, but the standard USB connection is more important to me. Grrrr, creative. If you could somehow combine the best (well, best IMO) traits of all your different players, you could have something so super-duper dope!
The thing I like about similar DAPs to these: subscription services. All someone needs to do is fire up an unlimited subscription video service for a couple bucks a month that's compatible with this thing, and off you go. Apple of course is not about to do this, so iPod users probably won't see a service like that, so the best hope for a subscription/rental service is for non-iPods. If some savvy buinessperson can get those stodgy tv networks to go for it, I'm sure there could be a tidy profit to be turned eventually. Better yet, strike a deal with netflix, and I'm totally there.
Oh, and then there's the price. I bet it'll be $329 for about 2 weeks, before you start seeing it for $300 or less online. Creative products seem tor work that way (I'll leave you, dear fanboys, to reckon why).
No one's mentioned comment section rule#2, which is: I'm always right, the rest of you are defective.
and to poster #67, shut up you stupid fanboy/zealot/troll.
First of all for all you bittorent users - The iPod CAN PLAY YOUR PIRATED VIDEOS!!! YOU JUST HAVE TO CONVERT THEM.
But you say, the creative can play without conversion!
HAHAHAHAH! WRONG, unless the video is downloaded at a low enough resolution and bitrate for the creative to play you STILL HAVE TO CONVERT THEM. JUST LIKE THE IPOD
So if that's the reason you buy creative, you must hate iPods more than I do.
The fact of the matter is that the Ipod became popular because of its ease of use and elegant design. By incorporating both of those into a small and versatile player, thats how they won a majority of the market share. The Ipod didnt need to change much over the years because they didnt need to. If it aint broke then why fix it. Granted that the Ipod can play video; but in reality its an mp3 player first with video functionality as a bonus. I applaud them for that. And I know the xvid and divx support is extremely nice, but is it that much more difficult to just rip your own movies files and re-encode them using free programs such as Videora Ipod Converter? And correct me if Im wrong, but isnt it only double the battery life based on video playback? If you want and Creative go for it, its a nice alternative but Im going to still be using my click wheel to navigate b/c a circular motion is that much easier.
you know Some Guy, it's really not that big a deal. i'm still getting a new iPod because the Vision's fat, ugly, and undoubtedly comes with buggy software (creative has always had crappy software).
regardless, any differences don't necessitate your idiotic rant/cursing storm. no iPod owner feels like they've just been 'served' as you'd like to think.
Ok people, time to put something into perspective...
How many people out there do you think even know what the difference between MPEG-4 and DivX is? In fact, how many people do you think even know what either of those are? The answer is a very small portion of the general public. As an iPod video owner (got it for free) it would be nice if it supported more video formats, but there's software out there (videora ipod converter) that'll convert anything to the correct format. So video format compatability isn't really an issue.
Heck, I'll go so far as to say that the Vision:M has a better feature set than the iPod. I don't think that point is really arguable, even though many may not find the features useful (voice recorder, etc...). HOWEVER, when buying the iPod, you're getting not only the player, but the fabulous integration it offers with iTunes. That's something that absolutely can't be ignored and THAT is what is making the iPod so successful, in addition to the simple design. As far as I know, no other DAP company out there offers that kind of convenience and integration between their players and software.
That's what everyone is missing in this discussion. It's not just the player, but the digital music experience that the company is offering. 90+% of the public doesn't want to have to hunt for their music on their computer and then drag/drop into the player, etc... Putting a CD in, having it ripped into iTunes and then automatically put on your iPod is a seamless and incredibly simple process.
Summary: Vision:M has better features on papers but lacks the software integration to really make it a competitor to the already established iPod. Because of the iPod's ease of use, it has become synonomous with mp3 players.
Anyone else think that this ipod copy (and dont fool yourself its a copy) is too little too late? If your not the first out of the gate, your ass does indeed belong in the glue factory.
"you STILL HAVE TO CONVERT THEM. JUST LIKE THE IPOD"
Wrong. It supports MPEG-4 Advanced Profile, which includes b-frames and quarter-pixel. That pretty much covers most of the stuff out there. The only thing it doesn't support (or at least, it doesn't say) is AC3 audio. But while transcoding a video file at full res takes forever, transcoding audio takes just a couple of minutes. I can deal with that.
"How many people out there do you think even know what the difference between MPEG-4 and DivX is?"
Well, at least one person: ME. Which is why I'll never purchase the iPod. And from the looks of it, more than a few other people here agree.
I got my 60GB 5G ipod for $369 or you can get 30GB ipod for $269 if you're a government employee or student in the US. The discount applys to both online purchase and at the apple store. I love my ipod and it's not that hard to get videos on to it.
I've always used Creative products and never had a problem.
Some people, like myself, just don't want to use an iPod or iTunes. People go apesh*t over Sony's DRM rootkit, but Fairplay is just as bad. Besides, iTunes is one giant marketing gimmick to ensure that people continue buying nothing but iPod's. We should be praying that other portable devices can compete with Apple because at some point, we'll all be moaning over the monopoly Jobs has over the industy.
I'll definitely be picking this thing up when it comes out.
Someguy = crazy fundie ranting lady from wife swap show. Yell enough and your fantasy world will become reality.
Seriously, whoever innovates more will get my dollars. I don't want to buy another me-too product, no matter who it comes from. If freakin' Westinghouse were to come out with an amazing player, I'd buy that.
>> People go apesh*t over Sony's DRM rootkit, but Fairplay is just as bad.
Baloney. Fairplay doesn't open a backdoor to your machine that hackers can enter. Choose whatever DAP you prefer, but don't lie about things.
Creative Vision:M.
OS Requirements: Microsoft Windows.... only
Hahahahaha... that's enough!! That's the big reason because Creative sucks!! The day that some serious OS like Mac OS X supports it, I will think it can be a good option.
Bah, I prefer my black iPod :)
Civil Disobedient,
Yeah...and you actually believe the people that read this blog are representative of the general public? Of course people that read this blog are more interested in what features X player has and what formats Y player supports. But the people who read this blog are specifically interested in these things. Ask a random person on the street if they know what MPEG-4 is and you'll get a blank stare.
That's what I'm trying to say. Apple has built a whole package that's easy to use. And that's what most people want. Do you think people that can barely program a VCR (or Tivo nowadays) care about what formats the player supports? They just want something that's easy and works. And Apple has provided just that.
I'm not coming down on the Vision:M, it's just that Creative hasn't gotten down the integration of an entire easy to use package, and that's what's holding them back in the marketplace.
I have continuing problems with Creative products that my friends with iPods do not complain about. I've owned both a Zen Micro and Zen Sleek and returned each. For the Micro, the headphone jack connection to the player required constant adjustment to the headphone cord position to allow the proper sound. This problem was so bad, I couldn't carry the Micro in jacket pocket. For the Sleek, the battery was woefully defective. After a week, I would get 2 hours of battery time at mid-level volume settings with uninterrupted play (no contant jogging between songs). This is a common problem discussed in Creative's forums and it's simply unacceptable.
I now own a Phillips GoGear 6330 and couldn't be happier. I'll never own an iPod until Apple offers subscription services. I'd love to have video capabilities in my audio player, but after my experience -- common experiences if forum reports are honest -- I'm loathe to buy a Creative player ever again.
I will probely ditch my 20gb ipod for this it has twice the video time as the ipod
--
hehe, ya right. check the fine print, they're lying about storage and battery life.. by using a super low bitrate.
and you thought they stopped doing that when Sony got burned for it, hm?
Some guy, your brainless and incessant anti-iPod rants that pop up every time a new iPod story is posted is proving what a complete moron you are. Go buy your Creative player, crawl back in your hole, and shut up. Your Zen will be a dinosaur by next time this year, and you'll be foaming at the mouth about some new player being the "iPod killer."
The extra "features" of the Zen are worthless to 90% of the marketplace, it's bigger, it's more expensive, and it's an obvious design knockoff of the iPod. Not to mention its lack of the magical silver bullet that makes iPod the top seller: iTunes. Some people will buy the Zen. Not many. That's just the truth. ("You can't handle the truth...")
And despite your delusional fantasies, most of us don't buy iPods because of some bizarre brainwashing campaign. Or due to some inexplicable fad. We buy it because it's the best all-around MP3 player out there, period. So go choke on your drivel and spare us your mental seizing.
It's gibberish like yours that makes fanboys of any company or product look like pathetic buffoons. You're rude, you're obnoxious, you're crass, and your arguments are mostly nonsense. Buh-bye.
Sure Zen has a radio (which nobody listens to) and it has a microphone (which most people don't use). Screen may be a bit better. It plays wma but not h.264 so that's a tie. Both play mpeg-4 (which is basically same as DIVX/XVID)
I'd be happy to pay $30 more for that if I needed the extra features (which I frankly don't and I cherish the iTunes integration) only if zen would not be so f*ing HUGE. See for yourself: http://monsternet.org/img/zenvisionmpreview/zenvisionm_appleipod3.jpg
First of all let me be clear: I HATE Apple. I am admitting this much. That said. I like the Ipod. I think it is a fantastically designed player. However, I don't think it should have the foothold that it has in the dap market. There are simply better players out there.
First off, those of you who complain about the price difference are idiots. At least Creative is sensible enough to include a fracking AC charger with its unit. At least they understand that dap users won't be near a computer at all times when their player needs to be recharged. And if you add the extar $$ that Apple wants you to pay for their AC charger, the price becomes more competitive.
Secondly, You IPOD fanboys must feel really threatened to come out swinging as hard against this product. Your only arguments is that it looks like the Ipod and its thicker. The price thing is completely bunk.
I would gladly pay a few extra bucks (and lets be honest. 30 or 40 bucks is not that significant when paying $300+ for a gadget) for a better and more featured player. Lets see...
--Fm radio with fm recording abilities. Ipod? gotta buy an accessory
--Voice recording via a built-in Mic. Ipod? NO
--twice the battery life playing video. Ipod? Hell No.
--compatible with most music subscription services. Ipod? well they have Itunes.
-- compatible with most already downloaded video content. Ipod? In your dreams. gotta spend hours converting and resizing till its just perfect.
Lets not go into the fact that Creative has the better menu system by letting you select from a range of useful options while in the "now playing mode" whereas with Ipod, you have to back all the way into the menu system.
All in all, I have spent a lot of time with creative's players and Ipods alike. The only thing that the ipods have that creative doesn't is a few games on the unit and Itunes. And who needs Itunes, when there are a host of good and reliable music subscription services out there? Sure Itunes is easy and awesome, I'll admit. But I'm not buying an inferior player just so I can use Itunes. Sorry Apple.
And as far as tv shows go, I already have an extensive digital video collection. Before the ipod, anybody who has ever downloaded good quality video from the web, has had it in the formats currently supported by Creative. And please don't give me that "stealing content" crap. If Tivo allows you to take your recorded shows with you for free, which is a feature that is supported with the Vision:M, and there was no way to legally buy an episode of Lost that you missed last week anyway, I feel no guilt about downloading it. I wouldn't have had to pay for it anyway. The way I see it, I am paying $1.99 for the privilige of being able to watch my shows on an Ipod. I think I'll opt to watch my shows on the creative for free.
Video file conversion. The simple matter of the fact is that iTunes has Quicktime (as well as some freeware/shareware tools) to do the job of converting video to H.264 that's compatible with the iPod. Creative has similar tools. I'd say without using either software (since I don't own a video iPod or a Creative Vision) that there is no inherent advantage to either DAP on that front.
The problem lies in that the average consumer has no clue what mpeg-4 is, nor do they know the difference between wmv, divx, xvid, etc. The average consumer doesn't have a ton of downloaded divx files. Most of them are likely to just want to get some DVD's converted so they can watch it on their DAP. The most they'd likely want to do is get some VCR or TIVO recordings onto their DAP. While there are tools to do this for both platforms, neither is a cakewalk to the non geek consumer.
Anyone arguing the Creative has an advantage over the iPod because it plays more video formats is forgetting the average consumer doesn't have 20GB's of downloaded divx files. What the consumer does know is that he or she can buy videos for their iPod which you can't do with Creative. In the court of public perception (as far as the mass public is concerned), iPod is the better video choice.
Sony using ATRAC and not MP3 is a totally BS argument. Sony's insistence on people using ONLY ATRAC is what caused most people looking for a DAP to look elsewhere. MP3's are unarguably the most popular format used by the average consumer today. This is also where some geeks who insist the iPod sucks because it doesn't support, OGG, FLAC, yada, yada lose credibility. From a geek standpoint, yes, the iPod is totally crap format support wise compared to most other DAP's. What the geek doesn't understand is that the average consumer doesn't care if OGG is better or that FLAC is better. Most of the ripping software will convert to MP3 and that's what they'll use.
I've said it time and again, if OGG, FLAC, FM, etc support was really that important to the non geek consumer, then players from the likes of Samsung, Creative, etc would be more successful than it is now.
God these ipod related comment sections make me want to vomit all over everything. im sure there is nothing more important to waste your time on-thats for both sides.
"Both play mpeg-4 (which is basically same as DIVX/XVID)"
I wish people wouldn't spread this kind of incorrect information--or better yet, I wish reviewers were more thorough with their reviews. If you think you can just throw any DIVX/XVID video on to any player that says "MPEG4 compatible!" you're in for a REAL disappointment.
But you wouldn't know that from most of the reviews about nearly ALL the PMP's out there. The vast majority of XVID/DIVX movies are encoded using b-frames and quarter-pixels. The "simple profile" MPEG-4 *DOES NOT* support these movies. That means you will have to re-encode them if you want to watch them. ASP (Advanced Simple Profile) *DOES* include b-frames and QP, so if your player supports MPEG-4 ASP, you're golden.
But that's just the video--there's also the audio. Many rippers are including full 5.1 stereo in their XVID/DIVX movies, which require AC3 decoders. If your player doesn't have one, you'll (at best) get no sound, more likely it will just refuse to play. Only full-featured PMPs support AC3 out-of-the-box.
Re-encoding video takes FOREVER if you're keeping the same resolution. Most of these ads--whoops, I mean "reviews"--euphemistically say "Well, it only takes a few minutes to transcode your old videos to XXXX's implementation of MPEG-4!" Yay. What they *DON'T* tell you is that they're re-encoded at the reduced resolution of whatever the PMP in question is... 320x240, 180x90... you get the idea. Basically, it will look fine on your Liliputian screen, but don't even think about hooking it up to your friend's Plasma.
Another gripe: why is it that NOBODY who reviews DAP's or PMP's EVER mentions the maximum encoding bitrate? THESE THINGS MATTER. All they ever say is, "Holy cow! This player can encode directly to MP3!" But they fail to mention that most of these recorders top out at 128 kbps (I'm looking at YOU Cowan!). Fan-friggin'-tastic. I could get better audio from my 15 year-old minidisc player.
Did you know that Cowan doesn't even provide the recording specs in their MANUAL? These kinds of oversights are crazy for manufacturers (unless they're trying to hide the fact), but for reviewers to omit it is completely unacceptable.
Just in case anyone doesn't know it will be 329 retail but probably sell for 299 at Best Buy. It costs extra because it comes with an ac adaptor and a docking cradle two items which are sold separately from apple. Not to mention this thing has X-Fi in it and superior video quality and support. This makes it A MUCH BETTER VALUE than ipod.
iPods DO have voice recording...........
how can you compare this "me too" product crap to a wonderful iPod?
Only a windows user can be so dumb...
Baby got back - this one's a fatty.
that's wma's...
Get a PSP. It does more than either of these two, and better.
Poor Creative. They were the first company to come out with a hard drive based DAP only to get sideswiped by Apple with a sleeker and better product that was marketed very well. That was the bait that hooked consumers worldwide and now the Ipod is a household name. That part will never change so all the Apple haters, including myself, should just need to accept the fact that the Ipod will never be surpassed in the marketplace. That's even if the other company including Creative has a better product.
I probably will buy the Vision:M because of it's FM record capabilities. Also, the mic seems really handy for my needs but I hope I don't get this and Creative sells me a piece of crap. I wouldn't mind getting an Ipod but there isn't an FM record accessory for it and I need it for when I get Sirius radio, I could record Howard Stern by transmitting an FM signal from my Sirius unit to the Vision:M. This is something that the Ipod can't do and this is where Creative has a leg up on Apple but you know what. 99% of the world won't know about this because there are no Creative TV commercials or you never see a celebrity or athlete with a Creative unit and consumers won't know about it. Sorry Creative, you lose.
One last thing before I leave, Apple fanboys are the gayest, stupidist, most ignorant dopes on this planet.
Rahul Sinha: what the fuck are you saying about buying lost is better then downloading it...
if it's a DVD-rip = stealing, but if some guy recorded it with his DVR, cutted out all the commercials and then spreads it imho it's not stealing. After all it's just like taping an episode for a friend because he's on vacation...
Whoot! I can port my recorded TV shows (via TV tuner mind you) to this thing!
The PSP, the 5G iPod, and the Creative all have great features.
PSP has that slick widescreen with opportunities for great gaming. But, short on the music stick for me. The PSP is cool but who wants to shell out $25 to buy a UMD movie when you have the DVD already? And, who wants to tie themselves too closely to Sony right now?
iPod is beautifully designed, portable, and simplifies multimedia experience more than the competition. But, lacks the output to TV I'm hoping for and doesn't have a user replaceable battery.
I give Creative two kudos. Higher output to TV quality (640x480 output) and a replaceable battery. And, it's cool to have 5 choices of color. Size is not a big issue as my 3G iPod or my Palm is about the same size. And, a few more accessories thrown into the box than iPod.
Content is king. So, if you've purchased AAC from iTunes (I have) and are interested in purchasing video from iTunes (I will) Apple (unfortunately) limits you from playing these on anyone else's devices. Although I'm a big Mac fan I don't appreciate Apple not licensing out the AAC to the competition. Also, I'd really like these devices to incorporate an SD card slot to import direct from my camera/video camera.
Is anyone else tired of the trend toward subscription based music/video that you can't burn and keep for yourself? Enough already!!!
No conclusions yet. I'm waiting for a 6G iPod...
WAit, how many gb is this?
and i hav to say that this device lookds awesome
this dap is a ripoff. its battery life is only of 8 hrs for wma encoded at 64 kbps. terrible.
"One last thing before I leave, Apple fanboys are the gayest, stupidist, most ignorant dopes on this planet."
Thanks Trigger hippY, that was both intelligent and insightful. You certainly convinced me!
Sorry, I just had to chime in after reading some of the ridiculous bullshit in the comments section. The Vision:M supports DivX and XviD in Simple Profile and Advanced Simple Profile, and the latter with restrictions. Most "grey market" content (most all video content on the web, actually) WILL NOT PLAY ON THE VISION:M OR MOST ANY OTHER PORTABLE VIDEO PLAYER WITH PROPER CONVERSION.
If you're going to argue merits and weaknesses of the players, that's fine. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that this product is somehow magically free of the problems and headaches that pretty much all of these "video shoehorned in" players face - their crummy lil' chips just can't handle the kind of high-resolution, full fps content you're used to watching on your computer and that shit NEEDS TO GET SCALED DOWN AND CONVERTED.
All that being said, fuck this thing on principle. I'm not going to support a company who "innovates" by copying a competitor so blatantly. I'd totally be into the Vision if Creative had done something more here than copy the 5G and add some features for the tech-set. But, why should I be excited for an also-ran?
Oops, that's supposed to read:
WILL NOT PLAY ON THE VISION:M OR MOST ANY OTHER PORTABLE VIDEO PLAYER WITH*OUT* PROPER CONVERSION.
"I give Creative two kudos. Higher output to TV quality (640x480 output)"
actually the 5G iPod will output video at 720 wide..
the 480x480 MPEG-4 limit is a total pixel limit, not a size limit..
you can encode 2.35:1 movies at 720 wide, and 16:9 movie at 640 wide, all looks sweet when output to a TV.
ive been using Handbrake for this and it works great, big MPEG-4 for movies small h.264 for tv series..
For the person that said that you cannot buy videos for Creative products (or any other Windows Media device), check out TiVo to Go and CinemaNow.com
No doubt a great player. If you need it. I wouldn't trash my 5G iPod for this device, since I'm hardly watching any videos - which seems to me the only thing this device is better at - and consequently (I don't care about replaceable battery, I really don't need audio-recording or FM, nice gimmicks, but not more, I already own a wall-charger from my old mini) I can look at size, design, price and ease-of-use.
I even doubted if I should buy the 5G, because of it's size. But I think in the end the "big" iPod became small enough to carry it around all the time. Double of the size of the iPod? No way.
Creative's device isn't bad if you look at the design. A little bit fat, a little bit "plastic", but not bad in the end. But I really can't help, everything screams iPod-wannabe.
Have you ever used a vertical scroll-pad? It's horrible. I don't want to use something like that.
I really liked the old Creative Flash-Players, especially the MuVo-Series. They weren't bad at all, they were great. And I don't doubt that this here is a great device, too, but as everything not for everyone. But there isn't anything that could be considered as a real reason not to buy this device.
By the way, I really wish Apple would include the search-feature this evice has in their iPods. Something like that is definitly a great idea.
#84 Michael< Not only does the Creative player have all those you included above, but Creative players are also known to have superior sound quality, ahh that just defeats the purpose of what you were talking about, huh? Ever hear of a 5 band EQ? So now i have to reasons to choose the vision:m over the ipod :) better vidio and SQ
#85, re-read his post, you prat. And do you really think the iPod has no EQ? Not that I've ever used it, I like my music to sound the way it was supposed to.
I never felt like I need a 5 Band EQ, it was quite a nice feature with the old MuVo I once owned, but I actually just used it to mask and boost the lousy sound of the lousy 10 headphones I had then. I don't feel like I would need it now. I'm simply not that audiophil to take any advance of something like that.
I never quite got all that audio hocus-pocus, and every time I compare two devices with roughly the same price, and then read the review and it says something like "a little bit more brilliant sound" I every time think "huh?" or stuff like that. After all I heard the iPod sounds pretty great. And all the Creative devices I listened to till now also sounded pretty great. I don't know if this Zen is so much better than prior HD-Player by Creative.
We know this is better than the Ipod.
The real question is if this is better than the Cowon iAudio A2.
I don't think that you can generally say something is better, except you are - let's say - comparing a VW with a BMW. That's always dependent on your personal needs. You can compare one aspect like the number of features you get, or how well these features are implemented, or what you get for your money, or how useful the device is depending on what you want to use it for most, etc.
I wonder why with Creative's IP sword-rattling that they don't copy the Apple click wheel as well?
I come from the land of Sim Hong Woo (or is it Wong Hoo?) and the man's pretty desparate to get one over Apple. The main broadsheets here gave him page one coverage when he swore to beat Apple.. well it ain't happened yet as long as he keeps that god-awful logo that looks like something I'd come up with in my school days.
Dunderhead is a stupid tard. Sim Wong Hoo may have in your opinion made a lousy signage or logo, but that logo made him worth about $300 million dollars... I would like to see you do the same with your school days shit talk mate...
ok first, dont come to any bad conclusions about the player, because it is alot better then you think. you cant say shit about when your being an ignorant fuck. second this player blows the ipod away. it has a 262,644 color bit screen and the cheap peace of shit ipod has a 64, color bit screen. it has play-for-sure support so it will play all of you "lost" episodes that you fags watch and it can record any of the radio stations on fm. so know you guys are taught all about the features of this amazing mp3 player. and now you can make your conclusions about. maybe you will learn to think before you talk. dumbasses. hahahahah.
First of all I don't care if they ripe off ipod as long as they beat them, in some cruical way. The companys are there to win us over, who cares if one copys the other as long as its better then the other. Plus compatition is good for us it causes them to either lower the price or make there products better.
LockNRoll, do you even know what you are trying to talk about??
You can pratically download any video off the internet and it will work in the Zen. I've had one for a week now and the only thing it doesn't play is .DAT video files. With support for Divx, Xvid, MPEG4 and MJPEG that makes almost any AVI file playable.
See with the Zen it's not about screen resoultion or the Bitrate it was encoded, unlike a certain Ipod. The Zen even comes with a tool to convert files, unlike the Ipod.
To me it seems all Apple fans will try to 'knock' any other product which is blatenly better than the Ipod. I've tried both of the products and the Zen is without a doubt better. The Ipod is by far better looking but the Zen is easier to hold when watching a film.
Only true downside to the Zen is the software it comes packaged with "Creative MediaSource" its a piece of crap. Although you can get a add-on for Itunes which allows the Zen to transfer everything apart from Videos.