Jobs calls out Dell, challenges to pistols at dawn
By Ryan Block 
posted Jan 16th 2006 9:01AM
posted Jan 16th 2006 9:01AM
In what we might only
characterize as a (rare) moment for the man, looks like last week Stevie J. let his guard down long enough to fire off
an email to the All Apple Employees list regarding his company's market cap (now $72.13 billion) surpassing that of
Dell's ($71.97b):"Team, it turned out that Michael Dell wasn't perfect at predicting the future. Based on today's stock market close, Apple is worth more than Dell. Stocks go up and down, and things may be different tomorrow, but I thought it was worth a moment of reflection today. Steve."Naw, we wouldn't characterize this as outright gloating, and bear in mind unlike Dell, Steve didn't air this laundry publicly (at least not directly, though we're sure he must've known this email would get out in the open). Hey, we can even imagine it must've felt pretty vindicating after Dell's '97 statement suggesting Apple shut down and "give the money back to the shareholders," but damn people, can't we all just get along?
I'm not sure I'd be so cocky! Apples recent results are not from selling computers but shifting millions of ipods.
Again, Steve should keep his mouth shut on this issue. But nonetheless, comparing the financial state Apple is at now to that what Dell predicted, it is worth noting a nice turn around the all of the employees should be proud of themselves. But no bragging. People don't like braggers.
Michael Dell is not amused!
You call that cocky..? I'd be pretty proud of my company too if it suddenly passed one of the market leaders, and I would certainly let my team know about it too.
Congrats Apple!
Indeed it's strange. Jobs knows these news get around and it may be taken by the media as a bad thing (I don't think Dell would take it badly considering it's a long -overdue rebuttal).
Also, Grant. Dell doesn't only sell computers, so the clarification is misleading and irrelevant. We'd have to dig the sales made for computer systems alone (not easy to substract the monitor from sales of the imac, though, or the OS and iLife from every mac out there).
Cocky? please. Last I checked visiting Dell.com the first thing it popped up was a Television I could buy, not a computer.
If he'd said it in a commercial, or in a keynote, yeah that'd be cocky. Just like Mr. Dell saying Apple should shut down and give the money back to the shareholders. Just because the iPod is a piece of their business (albeit a decent chunk) they still make other items and they're on the upswing as well in Dell's core market of home users.
That's it! Dell should just shut down and give all the money back to the shareholders! :)
Yah and like Dell has any right to talk smack I rolled out 16 Dell pieces of shit (Also know as latitudes.) last week. All of them had either bad grounding because I couldn't even touch the damn things without getting a nice current through my wrists. Or had really shitty touchpads. And never mind that the design is practically a direct ripoff of IBM's T series thinkPad. The # of points of commonality aren't just fricking chance. Dell sells a lot of shit. Nothing something to gloat over either.
Anyways if they can do it so can Apple. And it's not as if Jobs put out an e-mail that said We Pw0n you Dell! It was a pretty tasteful jab all things considered.
How old is that picture? Jobs doesn't have hair now.
Wow... an internal memo leaked to the free press.
What once was pride is now humility... sounds like somebody in his "elite" company isn't so loyal.
People who complain about Steve's hubris obviously don't understand that winners actually give a sh*t about winning. This is no different than spiking the ball in the end zone, or talking trash at a pre-fight press conference. It's capitalism, and if you don't recognize it for what it is, then winning is probably not something that you spend a lot of time thinking about.
Hang on a sec- how is Steve's fairly mildly worded memo (with built in concessions that they might not always be worth more than Dell) cockier than Michael Dell's "I'd shut them down and give the money back to the shareholders" comment? Seriously, he could easily have been a lot less classy.
To the best of my knowledge, companies regularly keep their employees updated on sales figures and market shares. When a company accomplishes something, like, for instance, passing a market leader in the stock market, a simple emailing pointing out this fact is a nice internal morale boost.
The comments hardly seem gloating or bragging. And, as pointed out, Dell has made far more sensationalist claims, and they have done so publicly.
I can't excuse everything Steve does, but this hardly seems worthy of criticism.
Steve should know better than to do something like this. Every time people begin to think switching over to Mac might be a good idea, they're forced to re-evaluate whether they want to align themselves with someone so brash and headstrong -- and consumer comfort in a product means emphasizing stability, not gloating over supposed "victories" with no real-world dollar sign attached to them.
And you're missing the point, #10. "Winning" and "showboating" only go hand-in-hand if you're Terrell Owens -- and I think his current employment crisis suggests those two elements aren't a match made in heaven. Jobs has traditionally gone out of his way to trumpet his supposed victories... but he's the last person that should be doing so. The CEO of the company should be seen first and heard last -- that's why you have marketing people.
Amen to #10.
One rule of success - "you've got to toot your own horn without blowing it." This is an amazing story and Jobs is simply keeping it alive for as long as possible. If I came back from the dead, I'd sure let a few folks know about it. Especially at the expense of the ones who pronounced me DOA. What glee!
"1. I'm not sure I'd be so cocky! Apples recent results are not from selling computers but shifting millions of ipods."
So?
This is like saying "Dell wouldn't be worth so much if it weren't for all the computers it sells."
Seem like a pretty mildy worded memo to me. And whats all the talk about class and taste anyway, its the business world we're talking about here????
It would have been downright criminal for Jobs not to take some kind of return jab after the smack Dell said about his company. Pshaw.
So what if Apple's major profit comes from iPods.
Think of it in THIS way: How much of Chevrolet's product core are Z06 Corvettes?? How many Honda S2000's comprise the fleet at most Honda dealers in the US? The truth is it's the base model Chevy work trucks and the Civic LX sedans that keep the companies in the black. It's the "small stuff" that brings in revenue to make the "core market icons".
Apple still makes computers, and they're done well. Dell, last time I checked, isn't doing so well in quality and like someone else said....there's televisions now cropping up on a company's site that bemoaned apple's iPod strategy.
It's just smart buisness. Besides, perhaps Jobs KNEW this release would get out? He might not be loved by all but he's also not a dumb person. What some might see as a "chink" in the loyalty armour might very well be Jobs letting the right people who read forums like this know what he's trying to say quietly
Grant, how old are you? Have you actually worked as a white coller employee at any companies? It SOP (standard operating procedure) for a lot of companies to update employees on the position of the company in their sector and make special notes of success. When a company (Dell) publicly flogs your company (Apple) I even think it's ok to gloat a little on such an occasion as this.
This is hardly showboating. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a CEO internally talking about the results of their hard work--this is something that happens all the time.
Dell's comment, however, was cocky. Dell needs innovators like Apple and IBM in order to survive. Show me the last Dell product that wasn't a duplicate of something already on the market. Has anyone seen their R&D budget numbers? Pathetic. They're a sales organization, not an innovator.
"...but damn people, can't we all just get along?"
Only when Dell will learn getting along with its own customers. And when Dell learn how to do stuff first time properly - and stop using customers as alpha testers for raw hardware "just unpacked from China".
WHOA!!! Steve Jobs had hair at one point...must have missed that cause I was only using Dell and not even looking towards Apple....WAS
Saying this was worthy of reflection is showboating? Being cocky?
Please. All the trash talk about Apple and this is what Steve gets criticized for? How about that ad Apple ran last week (at the Keynote, I have yet to see it in the wild) saying that Intel processors are in boring little gray boxes? Intel didn't like that.
If you're going to criticize Steve and Apple for showboating or trash talking, pick on the one they deserve to be picked on about! Sheesh.
First of all, Steve has every right to let his employees know their new accomplishment. When I worked in the mobile-phone industry, we were sent memo's on a weekly basis letting us know how are provider beat out other providers in customer service, industry ranking, etc. It boosts morale and in certain cases, employees derive a higher level of satisfaction from personal accomplishment than compensation increases or other incentives (money doesn't hurt though).
Secondly, it wasn't that harsh of a comment.
Thirdly, Steve Jobs is looking a little like Steve Perry in that picture.. anyone?
First of all, this was plastered all over the press last week. (The fact that Apple passed Dell.) Therefore, Steve sending out a little memo letting everyone know what Apple has accomplished I think is a smart move. I'm sure that what Dell said about Apple probably offended a lot of people at Apple and probably drove some innovation. At this point it's good to remember that this is just the market value and not the true value of the company. Stocks are a horribly inflated measure of the actual worth of a company. I think we should all be greatful that Apple survived long enough to come back strong with some really cool products. If nothing else it's forcing a lot of change in the computer industry that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise. Maybe this little shakeup will force Dell to try and make better products as well.
Also, Apple should be valued higher than Dell. Apple still has really good profit margins on their products. Dell's focus on reducing the price of PC's has had a hugely negative impact on their profit margins. If I was a shareholder, I'd rather own stock in a company with lots of sales and high margins instead of lots of sales and low margins. Just a thought.
If you look at Apples SEC filings, they are making more money off their computers than iPods.
So yeah, they're doing better business selling computers than iPods. I know Apple haters want to think otherwise, but oh well!
Come on people, why are you saying this is wrong? This wasn't a distasteful remark made by Jobs. Apple is a competitor to all these major companies, and if you had a major computer business, I think you would be proud enough to say you surpassed a company that is a major standard in the PC market. Apple should be beyond Dell anyway, thier equipment "Just Works", and Dells equiptment blows up in a couple months out of box. I have fixed so many Dell computers due to virus's or hardware issues.
Anyway, who is to say this comment Job's made is something to frown upon as a cocky move? He and his team should be proud of what they are accomplishing an d have accomplished. Just becuase a big chunk of sales have been the iPod, maybe perhaps they made a milestone for people to see the simplicity of the ease of use, and that its a good quality music device, people might be more inticed to look into thier other products.
If you're going to post a pic of Stevie with hair, you have to post a pic of Mikey with pants (reference to that running shorts pic you love).
Hm.
I do not quite get the "challange" part of the email.
All he did was to let all his emplyees know some good news. The CEO of the company I work for does this all the time to encurage us to work even harder. As stated in previous comments, Jobs is even humble enough to remind his employees that stocks actually fluctuate pretty much from time to time.
And in what way does it actually matters what kind of business it is that has brought Apple to this point? The dude made some very clever decitions, good for him then. :)
Now, if Dell was on the CC-list... that'd be cocky.
Aw man, I wish I could get an email from Steve Jobs! :-)
iPod's are seeding an expanding Apple orchard, and the stock price and company value is slowing increasing as a result. Their new Intel commerical is correct. Dell is proof. They have certainly been building boring little PC's to do boring little tasks. That's not a bad thing. But it is boring. Apple on the other hand actually has some excitement behind it.
CONGRATS APPLE! After 30 years of hard work I thnk Steeve deserves to give his company a pat on the back. Plus, there is no way that any one here can say that Dells can even come close to an apple computer. I dont think this can be considered such a big deal as we are making it.
Dell sucks because they sell shoddy systems that break easily and the tech support can't speak english.
Ummm. That's market cap. This has nothing to do with anything except what people are willing to pay for your stock and how much stock there is. That's it - it's all about perception.
I am a troll: sebhelyesfarku@freemail.hu
But no bragging. People don't like braggers.
---
um. unless you're Dell? ok.
"Now, if Dell was on the CC-list... that'd be cocky."
Hahahah! Yes it would!
I think sending this kind of email to your own employees is perfectly fine, BTW. It's just motivation. If I was working at Apple I would be psyched to see Apple pass dell.
Wow! Apple's desktop market share might top 5% for 2005! Apple is SO awesome, let's send a memo out bashing Dell, who has 34% market share.(US) (And not coincidentally, Dell totally sucks!) Us Apple peeps can just conveniently 'forget' that iPods/iTunes account for 40% of total Apple revenues. We'll also just overlook that 'Stevie J' forgot to mention that while Dell's PE ratio is ~24, AAPL's is a hefty ~55, making it a real value buy for your retirement portfolio. We'll also 'forget' to mention to that oblivious, elitest a-hole Jobs that Dell's last reportedly yearly income was a bit over 49 billion USD vs our insanely huge and awesome.... 14 billion. But we're still bigger -and- better, damn it! If we keep saying it, it'll become true!
Jesus Engadget, get your noses out of Steve's ass. Your site already runs far too much Apple crap relative to it's size and real importance in the real world. Then you run pointless BS like this and it just makes me think that you're playing home-run-derby with the sycophantic Apple fanboys. (Let's toss 'em a big fat one that they can bash out of the park in the comments section..)
I didn't have a real opinion towards Apple before I started visiting this site regularly except that it was a small company and it made 'cute' comps. I also knew that they hadn't done so hot in the mid 90s. Now that I'm being properly educated on the MacCult all I see is hypocrital BS and also all of these losers worshipping the brand like some religion... I do have an opinion now, and it's that Apple f'in blows. Apple is the highest pinnacle of modern marketing in the US. It's not about function, or even cost, it's just about giving people the mentality that if they buy it then it'll temporarily numb the pain of living in the world as it is. You've gotta love consumerism at it's best.
Also, yeah, Dell doesn't make the greatest computers. But they have done more than -anyone- in getting affordable computers to more people in the world (especially the US). I think that is the true victory, just getting more people access to computers and the internet. Not the one who dies having drunk the most lattes, driven the most German cars, and having bought the most computers in an expensive, white chicklet form factor...
And for those who are still emotionally detached enough to actually do some research before counter-launching a tirade here's some of my sources for numbers, which weren't groomed, but first come/first serve on yahoo.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=DELL&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL&annual
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1870027,00.asp?kc=EWNKT0209KTX1K0100440
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1778538,00.asp?kc=EWNKT0209KTX1K0100440
"The CEO of the company should be seen first and heard last -- that's why you have marketing people."
??!? Steve IS the marketing for Apple. he is seen first, heard first, and obeyed first.
I'm constantly amazed by how classless and crude the Apple bashers can be. And why? Because someone out there uses a computer that's different from yours?
Technology xenophobes. Brand bigots. Whatever you are, you're really, really creepy human beings.
Hey, Dellfanboy...headupbutt!
Steve Jobs just said in one quarter Apple's revenue was $57 billion. And you think $49 billion is hot stuff for Dell? That's some "new math" you're spewing there dude.
Get a life...
I'm going to agree on the fact that it was Christmas time recently and a LOT of people got iPods.
"Jesus Engadget, get your noses out of Steve's ass. Your site already runs far too much Apple crap relative to it's size and real importance in the real world. Then you run pointless BS like this and it just makes me think that you're playing home-run-derby with the sycophantic Apple fanboys. (Let's toss 'em a big fat one that they can bash out of the park in the comments section..)"
Ok. Everyone stop bashing engadget. I'm sorry that you don't like apple and refuse to accept that a lot of rumors, hype, and press are given to them (whether they have a large market share or not), but those are the facts. Jobs makes a pithy comment and it gets in the news, not just on engadget but everywhere. so just stop it, because you look like a damn fool.
jobs had every right to post that note- he's worked his behind off to create a counter platform for computer users and his work is paying off. if he pushed his pride around- he would have fallen like dell's prediction... i wouldnt call that memo pride- more like alittle good ol american boasting. i would have boasted to my employees too. companies boast all the time: ford and the best selling suv the explorer for example. and the point made in another comment about honda and its civics is true- sure you have music industry guys buying apple powerbooks and graphics guys buying apple G5s and schools buying imacs; yet even a 10 year old can sell enough lemonade to buy a 512mb ishuffle (the mini imac player. jobs has created a market spread that keeps apple going and its value on the upward move.dell is selling product- jobs is selling a revolution. the ipod culture, itunes, artsy white and titanium laptops that look uber cool. sure dell sells, but so does toshiba, sony and gateway and all have their followers. so does apple. welcome to america land of choice- and jobs has given us choice...
#37, That was by far the WORST post i've ever read surpassing XBOX, PS3, Revo fanboys all together. A false info, bad sarcasm, and irrevalent facts.
DellFanboysSTFU wrote:
"Now that I'm being properly educated on the MacCult all I see is hypocrital BS and also all of these losers worshipping the brand like some religion... I do have an opinion now, and it's that Apple f'in blows."
If reading comments in a blog is "proper education" to you, you are one very sad mofo. The myth of the "Mac cult" is every bit of modern marketing by Apple-bashers, and you have bought into it. That makes you as gullible as you think Mac Cultists are.
In reality, the computer world isn't that bigoted.
Lol, wow 39 is kind of an abrasive jerk... they have some valid points though.. Why is AAPL valued so high? If anything I've read that Apple's margins are going down, even though their revenues are going up. (Making their Apple Stores was a good idea though, from a biz standpoint.)
Oh, and btw Eric #41, Engadget's own quotes from Steve's keynote says 5.7B for the latest quarter, not 57B, there's a small difference... lol.
dell can suck steve jobs left nut!!!!!!!!!!!
How is this executive's remark about out performing a competitors stock abrasive? Let's be realistic, do you think for one moment that if someone took such a pointed and crass (IMHO) shot at your company and your leadership you wouldn't love to acknowledge that their comment was incorrect?! Yeah right! If anything I felt he was pretty cautious and understated - noting markets change on a whim. He was making a subtle observation that rightly made Michael Dell's original comment appear as crass as it was the first time he made it.
The gloating wouldn't be that they surpassed Dell on the market now (but how sweet) but that Dell was clearly wrong when he made his original statement. Isn't that always the sweetest revenge to prove a detractor wrong.
I do have to say though Engaget the title was a bring it on one while Jobs' comments were not so in your face. Although you DID get people to click on the story which was the point.