It's not very often he runs his mouth
publicly, but between
the email he sent out
about Dell and his sit down with Newsweek, Steve's definitely on a roll. He sipped tea while ruminating a bit on
what's up with the industry, and had the following to say when asked about the new MacBook: "The form factors are
perfect, we don’t know how to make them any better." Hm, ok, hubris needle rising slightly. And about the
Osbourne effect setting in on G5-based systems like the Power Mac, "... if you’re a business, you’re
thinking, '... I better get one of those quad PowerMacs [sic] while they’re still around.'" Alright
then. And finally on the supposed lack of "iPod killers" at CES (looks like Newsweek forgot about the
Gigabeat
S), "What’s going to happen is that Microsoft is going to have to get into the hardware business of
making MP3 players." Well, there you have it ladies and gentlemen, Steve Jobs officially predicted Microsoft's
getting into the portable media hardware business. We'll check back with everyone on this in a year, sound good?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
JK @ Jan 16th 2006 1:00PM
Max:
I agree with this post!!!!!
nick @ Jan 16th 2006 1:08PM
Ryan isn't really talking about ipod killers here. In all he is just highlighting an article on Newsweek. If you want to cry about how an iPod killer will never come to the market then talk to Steven Levy over at newsweek.
cuby @ Jan 16th 2006 1:31PM
i don't see anywhere in the blurb where the poster insinuates that an iPod killer will emerge. steve jobs mentioned that in order for the iPod to be dethroned, a company with as much clout as MS would have to get involved. you're probably just trolling, but i would invite you to describe what in the article encouraged you to start harshing on the editor. and not even funny-harsh, but bad-parent harsh.
having said that, i don't think anyone _actually_ expects a player to unseat the iPod, at least not anytime soon. but we love to see companies try and beat apple, because it means more interesting players emerge in the competition, even if that hasn't happened yet, and we only see wave after wave of hopeless, ugly players.
my prediction is that the iPod will fall, within a few years, but not because a more attractive player comes along (that's not possible). what's going to be responsible is the shifting of trendy consumer tastes. sometime relatively soon -- unless apple starts getting vigorous in updating the iPod's image -- people will start getting bored with them. they're already getting boring ... the image, the marketing, the white, the wheel. at some point, some broad consumer shift will take place, and iPods will no longer be cool, unless Apple stays ahead of the game and reinvents itself into a new kind of cool. but it has to reinvent ... iPods will not be stylish forever.
i would say that Creative -- from whom i would incidentally never buy any hardware -- understands this well, which is why they're pushing their own idea of the next wave of cool (stupid colors etc, which is not the next wave). they're spending boatloads in marketing just so that when people sour of apple (which, again, is absolutely inevitable given historical trends), they're the next ones in the public eye.
Lee @ Jan 16th 2006 1:33PM
iPod killer? Ha! The 'pod has reached critical mass and will keep up the mo' All one needs to do is look at any electronics store and note the number of accessories available for the pod vis-a-vis it's competitors. Last I checked, there were precisely ZERO accessories for the gigabeat. Lessee: ipod accessories: 1,000 All others: 12...maybe.
Tom @ Jan 16th 2006 1:34PM
I know Ryan was just referring to the interviewer's observation that "there didn't seem to be any ipod killers", but I don't think the Gigabeat S is an iPod killer. Even if it is a superior device, there are so, so many obstacles it would have to overcome to topple the iPod.
1) It would need software as easy and elegant to use as iTunes with an equal amount of content available for purchase
2) It would need a major image boost. Its so hard to compete with Apple's marketing muscle. Who outside of this super gadget circle knows Toshiba makes mp3 players? My brother, my mom, and my grandparents sure don't.
3) It would have to have a sexy form factor that's easy to use. That plus pad looks more confusing and harder to use than apples simple and sleek scroll wheel.
I'm rooting for more competition in the mp3 player market, but it's so hard to match Apple's software, design, and ease of use.
TMoney @ Jan 16th 2006 1:46PM
Microsoft could definitely create an Ipod killer. They would just need to integrate "iTunes like" features into Windows. If they did this and made it as easy, or easier than using iTunes to get music on and off players, then the iPod would fall.
Mario @ Jan 16th 2006 1:49PM
"Whats going to happen is that Microsoft is going to have to get into the hardware business of making MP3 players."
I think that statement is wrong and it might be the other way around.
Apple will start focusing more in hardware (more Macs, more iPods, i.e. more nicely designed hardware), letting other companies (cough, Microsoft, cough) do the software.
That would be the reason for the new Intel based Macs. Instead of spending hundred of millions in developing a new MacOS XI, maybe they'll end having somebody else building a new WindOS XI.
Only Steve J. knows...
ChuChu @ Jan 16th 2006 1:50PM
I always get a laugh out of people predicting "ipod killers", especially when it's from a CEO of some company who is getting trounced by Apple. They make a player with slightly superior specs and then don't understand why it doesn't do well.
Guess what, the ipod is a @#$#@$ fashion accessory. 90% of the people buying them don't know what the specs mean let alone care about them. It's like trying to tell someone "hey don't spend $1200 on a louis vuitton bag when you can get this korean made bag for $100 that's actually superior". They are paying for the name, they want the name.
Now if it sounds like I'm bashing apple, I'm certainly not. I have an ipod and I love it. What I am saying is that in order to come up with an "ipod killer", you not only have to make something technologically superior with an online component at least as good as itunes but you also have to somehow gain the same sort of cultural cache that the ipod currently boasts and that is what these CEOs just don't get.
If anyone can do it, it's going to be MS. They have the software already in place (mediaplayer) so that's not a problem. They have the warchest to sell devices at a loss to gain market share. They have the recognizable name that everyone and their brother knows. Can MS create something fashionable? That's the tough one. They certainly have enough money to throw at it.
josh @ Jan 16th 2006 1:51PM
The new gigabeat actually looks pretty slick. There are more sources to get videos, its thinner than the ipod, and it isnt that bad looking. Granted it doesn't have the slick aluminum-white/black of the ipod, but I also suspect it doesn't smudge or scratch anywhere near as easy.
I have nothing overly personal against iPod but I think apple may just repeat mac history. They design a good product but control the entire platform. Enter MS who only provides part of the platform but generates 8 million options, and eventually ends up with the majority market share. I own an iPod now, but I will never buy music off of itunes because I am fairly certain I won't use the iPod forever (well that, and I hate the iTunes app with a passsion so I won't buy any music that requires I use it to listen to said music). I'd rather have options and ultimately I think MS will be the one to offer them.
That being said, I think all of the WMA/WMV players out there need to adopt a universal accessory adapter if they plan on eventually capturing any market share. The ipod certainly has the accessories market and it isn't in the financial interest of any third party (like griffin) to create accessories for a particular non-ipod player. Creating accessories for all non-ipod players at once may be a different story though.
Dave95 @ Jan 16th 2006 1:53PM
# 2 (Jason)
Can you please let us know what exactly is it that Apple did that led you to use such harsh words? When did it start, Elementary, Junior or High School Comp Class? What moment in life did you realize Apple was the source of your anger and must die die die!
Whould help greatly on this paper I am doing titled: Step Slowly Away From The Internet
Relax dude
MadaMadaDane @ Jan 16th 2006 2:04PM
"hubris needle rising slightly"?
See, that's interesting, because I just read a scientific study that found that Steve Jobs causes hubris meters within a 25 mile radius of his person to explode. The team of Harvard scientists then tried calibrating their meters to the Oedipus scale (the comparative equivalent of treating an 8.5 earthquake as a 4.5 earthquake in Richter magnitudes), but to no avail.
The study in fact needed to be called off early. The researchers stated that we simply don't have technology at the present time that can withstand even the outer edges of Steve Jobs' hubris penumbra.
Paul @ Jan 16th 2006 2:04PM
Uh... #5 : They did reinvent the ipod and made it cool again - it's called the Nano.
Creative could never make anything cool unless it was by sheer accident (and I say this having owned a Nomad IIC).
I think you are right tho - the ipod won't last forever in popularity. Apple has a way of doing really good for a few years, then crapping out, then coming back again. They're overdue for a crapout.
G'Diddy @ Jan 16th 2006 2:35PM
"That would be the reason for the new Intel based Macs. Instead of spending hundred of millions in developing a new MacOS XI, maybe they'll end having somebody else building a new WindOS XI."
One of the most idiotic, unthoughtful things i may have ever read.
It's the heat stupid!
The reason Apple switched to Intel chips is IBM couldn't make the G5 chip run cool enough to put in a laptop.
Bert @ Jan 16th 2006 2:42PM
#5 "my prediction is that the iPod will fall, within a few years, (...) unless apple starts getting vigorous in updating the iPod's image -- people will start getting bored with them."
And you don't think Apple knows that? They won't let it happen, EVER. I bet they already started working on the new iPod.
Kexter @ Jan 16th 2006 2:49PM
Jobs is one conceited bastard.
sid @ Jan 16th 2006 2:58PM
Jobs doesn't know how to make their laptops any better, I can think of one way..... TWO FUKING MOUSE BUTTONS would be nice
Alan @ Jan 16th 2006 3:01PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
when asked about the new MacBook: "The form factors are perfect, we dont know how to make them any better."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think this is pretty telling. This is Jobs trying to get everyone thinking that there is nothing better possible in a portable before he dumps a new Newton or mini-macbook or something like that. Probably not this year though as they've got to complete the switch to Intel and then 10.5. But after that - the innovation will have to ramp up again and an ipod sized but more feature full computer would be within target.
Michael2k @ Jan 16th 2006 3:17PM
PC LAPTOPS SELL FOR 1,000 DOLLARS LESS WITH THE SAME HARDWARE AS THE OVERPRICED MACBOOK.
Okay, here's the challenge then. Specs can be better, but they can be no worse. I count the case as hardware, since it is both hard and something physical.
Find me a dual core 15.4" widescreen 1" thick 5.6 pound PC laptop that only costs $999 before taxes. It should come with wireless networking and a DVD-RW drive, though I will forgive the lack of backlit keyboard, motion sensor, and included camera, since those are not common on most systems.
Everyone who announced laptops at CES, for an otherwise identical laptop, was charging at least $1800; let loose the size constraints to 1.3" and 6 pounds, and the price drops to $1300.
Nowhere have I seen a dual core 15+" widescreen laptop for below $1300!
Desides @ Jan 16th 2006 3:23PM
#4, "unless Apple stays ahead of the game and reinvents itself into a new kind of cool. but it has to reinvent ... iPods will not be stylish forever."
The iPod is not a success because it looks pretty. The iPod is a success because it's easy to use and offers integrated content. The iPod will continue to be a success as long as the iPod's competitors don't get it through their heads that ease of use is priority A1. There literally is no alternative at this point: "iPod" is synonymous with "portable music player" in the minds of the buying public.
You may be getting bored with the iPod, but with 30+ million sold in 2005 alone, you're very alone in your opinion.
Edlanti @ Jan 16th 2006 3:33PM
PC LAPTOPS SELL FOR 1,000 DOLLARS LESS WITH THE SAME HARDWARE AS THE OVERPRICED MACBOOK.
Only sick apple fanboy morons will buy the macbook.
Find me a windows laptop with all the features that the macbook has and tell me if it going to be $1000?
Edlanti @ Jan 16th 2006 3:36PM
16. Jobs doesn't know how to make their laptops any better, I can think of one way..... TWO FUKING MOUSE BUTTONS would be nice
Well I only have 10 months that switch to mac and I still dont have the need of a 2 button mouse, you get used to it
Jordan @ Jan 16th 2006 4:02PM
Ignorance among many people that post before thinking twice. Apple makes the hardware AND the software for their systems, so they will ALWAYS run at an optimal speed for the system when it comes out. They are using a BRAND NEW DUAL CORE PROCESSOR, NOT FOUND IN MANY IF ANY PC LAPTOPS! How in the freak are you going to say that you can get something even close to comparable w/ the new macbook pro, which also includes a ATI 1600 video card???? That's a nice new video card that is going to run pretty much any game out there that is supported. not only find us a system that is dual core, w/ a widescreen, and a nice webcam, but also find me one w/ the NEW dual core from intel that also has one of ATI's LATEST video cards for anywhere NEAR that price. THINK BEFORE YOU POST, this is a very nice laptop for the money, and just because it doesn't have the "clockspeed" of some powerful other pentium, you have to consider it's like comparing APPLES with oranges. Clockspeeds no longer matter that much, ie AMD vs. Intel.
Max @ Jan 16th 2006 4:51PM
lol, I have 4 Gmail accounts and I use the one you listed , the one i'm using now, specifically for spam. So please, spam is indeed welcome :-)
It's pretty funny to see that my comments hit such a chord with the author (and or his goons) that it got an immediate deletion. When things like this happen it's only a sign that a. I'm right. b. I'm right (again).
Back to my point: Ryan Block is a moron. There have been 'iPod Killers' since the creation of the iPod. The iPod isn't going anywhere anytime soon (except up in sales, possibly). Again, Ryan Block is not someone to be taken seriously. But thanks for posting this completly un-neutral news article Ryan!
your biggest fan,
Max
josh @ Jan 16th 2006 5:08PM
"Ignorance among many people that post before thinking twice. Apple makes the hardware AND the software for their systems, so they will ALWAYS run at an optimal speed for the system when it comes out."
Actually, apple compiles for minimum memory footprint rather than optimized for speed. This is because OS X is far more memory hungry than XP (which itself is pretty memory hungry) and they need every ounce of help they can get.
"They are using a BRAND NEW DUAL CORE PROCESSOR, NOT FOUND IN MANY IF ANY PC LAPTOPS! "
Wow, you are an idiot. Have you read this site during CES? Here's a hint, it was a week before macworld and had every freaking vendor with the offerings.
"How in the freak are you going to say that you can get something even close to comparable w/ the new macbook pro, which also includes a ATI 1600 video card???? "
I dunno, get one with the Geforce go 7800, which is largely considered a superior chip in regards to performance and performance per watt. The later means that it sucks up quite a bit less power and thus increases your battery life. Plus, you actually get some benifit since most of the machines usng the 7800 don't have crap ass resolution, unlike apple (144x960 in a $2000+ laptop. what a freaking joke apple).
Apple does have a decent form factor and it takes a bit of looking to find something comparable in the windows world, but its there. Look at samsung, or asus (which is actually one of the OEMs for apple), and you see similar or better, especially for the price.
"THINK BEFORE YOU POST"
Why is it that you won't take your own advice. Your post is little better than fanboy flaming, completely ignoring readily available information on this very site. One can argue the merits of the macbook without being completely ignorant of the merits of the competitors. I suggest you try it. The macbook is a nice form factor with ok specs, but there are drawbacks and there is no harm admitting them. It has ridiculously poor resolution, a mere single layer burner, a unibrow mouse, and a decent premium over comparable machines. If you want OS X it makes sense to get it, and if you aren't willing to look for machines with similar or better form factor and comparable specs (and they do exist) it might be worth the price.
What I don't understand is why people NEED to believe than anything apple makes is flawless. You can like something even if it isn't perfect. I like my iPod, but it is far from perfect and I recognize that.
DAN @ Jan 16th 2006 5:52PM
How can anyone believe anything Jobs says?
Not much over a year ago, he was telling every Mac user that the Mac was faster than any PC. World's fastest, comes to mind, the PPC chip was the best available due to shorter 'pipeline' and other BS.
Then six months ago, he tells every Mac user that INTEL is coming, but go ahead and buy the Macs we have now because it will be a year before they're ready. So Mac users suck up the 'old stock' and now are whinning about just buying an iMac and their sooo outdated!
Now, Jobs comes out with these new Macs with the INTEL processors are 3 or 4 times faster than the old Macs. Yeah, they are dual core, but they are dual core Celerons or a reasonable facsimile. Not the speediest INTEL makes would you say?
Now, I wonder, which Jobs should we believe?
The iPod, who cares how 'cool' it is, only fanboys are concerned with cool! You're welcome to eep sucking up Jobs BS and paying him your cash for coolness!
I'll keep the cash and be cool going to the bank without an iPod.
David T @ Jan 16th 2006 6:43PM
#22:
"Apple makes the hardware AND the software for their systems, so they will ALWAYS run at an optimal speed for the system when it comes out." - first, that's a completely bullshit deduction. and second, tell that to Microsoft (Office), Adobe (Photoshop), and the rest of Apple developers.
"How in the freak are you going to say that you can get something even close to comparable w/ the new macbook pro, which also includes a ATI 1600 video card" - erm, Acer Travelmate 8200 ring any bells? X1600 with 256MB dedicated GDDR3 VRAM and extra 256MB shared, same processor, better screen (1680x1050), wifi, 1.3 MP rotating camera, carbon fibre case, Bluetooth wireless VOIP phone built in... for US$2500. many more are on the way right now...
I'm betting Microsoft will NOT make hardware. instead, they're gonna licence their PlayforSure to a few hundred manufacturers, and to many content providers, and chip away at Apple's market share that way. there might never be an iPod killer, in the sense that iPods will always be the most popular single portable media player, but the moment its market share goes to 49%, Microsoft has won.
Jordan @ Jan 16th 2006 6:48PM
I am not an idiot, the OS X software runs better on a MAC MACHINE because it is designed by the same company, you don't have to worry about memory issues if you buy it from a company that knows how much memory the OS needs. I was arguing in terms of PRICE you can hardly find a NEW laptop with that video card and that processor. I don't even own a Mac for your info, i own a dual core AMD 3800 w/ an ati 1800xl with a crossfire motherboard that i put together myself, YES i do read this site, and i am not ignorant when it comes to computers, you can get anything you want as long as you are willing to pay for it. The average laptop with a 7800 card in it is $2500, the ati card is not quite up to par, but when did you buy an apple to play games??? It does what it needs to do. Just because it says DUAL CORE for the laptop, doesn't mean it's going to be decent either, Intel finally made a decent chip with the core duo, unlike previous iterations that were thrown together. This processor may finally compete with AMD's dual core market. AGAIN, YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ WHAT I WAS ARGUING BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!! I was arguing PRICEPOINT, yes, the screen isn't quite up to par, i will agree with you, but pricepoint is decent especially for an APPLE computer. The whole idea that Windows runs with less memory is irrelevant, because they don't put out machines from Apple without understanding how well the machine runs, yes more memory the better, but it's not going to chug with what it has. And if you still think that a company that makes the computer and software for the machine is going to be worse of than a pc, than you are just biased.
Jordan @ Jan 16th 2006 7:04PM
...not to mention you can get it for $1799 with the educational discount online. So where was the argument, the only response that i've heard that had similar specs with a little bit better screen for what, oh yea, $2500, not $1799, or $1999, so huh? And no 64 bit OS X
DAN @ Jan 16th 2006 11:05PM
OMG! I think someone actually got a photograph of the Reality Distortion Field!
lee @ Jan 17th 2006 5:02AM
Sorry Engadget- the Gigabeat S is NOT an 'iPod killer'. It's nice enough, but no, there's no chance of iPod homicide happening any time soon.
I do like its screen and battery life, but the Jurassic-era cross pad looks (and likely feels) clunky, it has not even a 1/100th of the accessories available for it that the iPod does. The design overall looks good... for a non-Apple player.
Once you compare it to the iPod though, it like the plain girl who hits bars with her ex-homecoming queen friend... always hanging around, hoping to be noticed for their nice 'inner' qualities, but always watching as her prettier friend walks away with all the phone numbers.
Sorry Toshiba, nice try though. Now go stand in the corner with the rest of the 'iPod killers'.
Kory @ Jan 17th 2006 10:29AM
Ryan, dude, you are such an Apple hater. Why is that, man? You should just chill, light one up, and feel the zen that is Appleness.
The iPod is easy to use. iTunes is easy to use. They're both easy to use together. My wife, who is no technologist, picked up my iPod the other day in the car and said "how do you use this?" I said, figure it out for yourself. And she did!
And you know what? Mac OS X works the same way. It just works. There's no learning curve. I've got tons of toys hooked up to my PowerMac. I don't want to fiddle in order to get them to work. I don't want to worry about drivers, device conflicts, COM ports and crap like that. You know what's fun about gadgets? The gadgets themselves, and not fiddling around with getting them to work with my computer.
You know why Apple comes out with a new version of the OS every 18 months? Because technology advances, so the OS has to keep up. How long has it been since XP came out, four or five years? Gimme a break! And every time they release an OS, it gets to be more and more like the Mac.
Jon @ Jan 17th 2006 11:57AM
"5. iPod killer? Ha! The 'pod has reached critical mass and will keep up the mo' All one needs to do is look at any electronics store and note the number of accessories available for the pod vis-a-vis it's competitors. Last I checked, there were precisely ZERO accessories for the gigabeat. Lessee: ipod accessories: 1,000 All others: 12...maybe."
You need to keep in mind that most other (well-designed) players don't NEED that many accessories since they already have those functions/features built in. Like for example iRiver, Cowon/iAudio, and in some respects, yes, even Creative. Hell, even Philips.
josh @ Jan 17th 2006 4:14PM
"I am not an idiot, the OS X software runs better on a MAC MACHINE because it is designed by the same company, you don't have to worry about memory issues if you buy it from a company that knows how much memory the OS needs."
Bwahahaha. That obviously explains the mac mini and its completely anemic 256 MB when it first came out. You DO have to worry about memory issues when the company intentionally puts too little ram in the default configuration in the hopes that people will upgrade it at their absurd prices (which admittedly Dell does as well, but point of fact, PC manufacturers are as aware of the performance needs of Windows as Apple is of OS X). However you also missed my point completely. OS X is compiled for as minimal a memory foot print as possible because even with those compiler flags it requires a great deal of memory. Without those flags you would probably be looking at around a gig minumum just to run the OS and the less memory ambitious typical applications (surfing the net, writing docs, etc. No Photoshop here) smoothely. What that means is that it is optimized for size, not speed. I'm not saying it crawls because of it, but I am saying that it isn't optimized to run as fast as it could on that hardware. I agree with the trade offs they made but it does negate your point about it being optimized for the hardware.
"I was arguing in terms of PRICE you can hardly find a NEW laptop with that video card and that processor."
Acer, Samsung, Asus, Dell, Toshiba, and HP are all offering comparable processors (or better), comparable graphics (or better), nicer screens, and all for a better retail price. The RETAIL price of the apple puts it in Voodoo PC or Alienware land for the configuration. Yes, some people argue that if you get the macs at education prices they are cheaper but they are then comparing discount vs. retail, which is an invalid comparison. If people want to argue from that standpoint then I should be able to price windows laptops based off of the combination of my education discount and employer discount I get at almost every major PC manufacturer (the benifit of taking night classes for the heck of it and having a nice job).
"I don't even own a Mac for your info, i own a dual core AMD 3800 w/ an ati 1800xl with a crossfire motherboard that i put together myself, YES i do read this site, and i am not ignorant when it comes to computers, you can get anything you want as long as you are willing to pay for it. The average laptop with a 7800 card in it is $2500, the ati card is not quite up to par, but when did you buy an apple to play games???"
So the first rule of successfully argueing a point is not to then contridict it yourself. Up until now you have been taking the tone that the macbook is so sweet because of its specs and now you are backpeddling and saying "sure the apple doesn't have the best components but why would you need those when you can't use them". My answer to you is that if I was spending that much on a laptop I would prefer to get one that both looked nice and had the better components. Those options exist, and at a better price. Seeing the announced prices for most of the dual core laptops $2500 is definetly overstating things by a considerable margin. You are looking at between $1800 and $2000 for a fairly top of the line model, one more comparable to the $2500 macbook than the $2000 macbook.
My gripe with the macbook is that you don't get the components you really should for the price, where you do with other machines. I'm a display snob, so the fact that their resolution is worse than that often found on $1000 laptops really annoys me. When you combine it with everything else I see a machine that looks cool, but that is all you are paying for. I'm not griping about this just to gripe; I would gladly own one if it was worth the money because I do like the form factor (though I would install windows because apple makes the trade off of form vs. functionality throughout their OS as well as their hardware and I don't care for most of those trade offs. it looks pretty, but could be designed to be more usable).
"It does what it needs to do. Just because it says DUAL CORE for the laptop, doesn't mean it's going to be decent either, Intel finally made a decent chip with the core duo, unlike previous iterations that were thrown together. This processor may finally compete with AMD's dual core market."
Intel has been rocking the mobile market for years. AMD still isn't a player there at all (they try, but its hard to notice). Its foolish to compare desktop and laptop processors because you have different design constraints. What may be acceptable power draw and heat generation for a desktop would not work at all in a laptop. In this, Intel has understood and consistently produced a better offering than AMD (the desktop market is quite the opposite).
"AGAIN, YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ WHAT I WAS ARGUING BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!! I was arguing PRICEPOINT, yes, the screen isn't quite up to par, i will agree with you, but pricepoint is decent especially for an APPLE computer."
And I was argueing that it wasn't. For what you get there are better offerings, assuming that you aren't buying it just to run OS X. Saying "Its an incredible deal because typically the company over prices stuff EVEN MORE" really doesn't sell it for me.
"The whole idea that Windows runs with less memory is irrelevant, because they don't put out machines from Apple without understanding how well the machine runs, yes more memory the better, but it's not going to chug with what it has. And if you still think that a company that makes the computer and software for the machine is going to be worse of than a pc, than you are just biased."
No, I am just a developer who understands the trade offs that are made and have a better technical understanding of the platform. I brought up memory because I was refuting your point that the OS was optimized for the platform, not attacking how much ram was in the computer.
Honestly, the person who seems biased is you. You make claims without facts, contridict your own points, show very little understanding of how things actually work, and make absurd statement (for example saying "they make both the software and hardware which must mean its much faster than a windows machine" pretty much ignores the past several years of mac history and their poor showing of performance).
Now I am not saying people shouldn't buy the machine, just that it isn't better than any other machine out there, especially with the price, which was why I had issue with your original post (well that, and you convey your points in a very immature manner).
If you had instead posted something along the lines of "Hey guys, I know a lot of you are bashing on the mac but please acknowledge that while it certainly has its weakenesses it also has its strengths. For example, for those who prefer Mac OS it is a huge step forward in performance for them. For those who prefer physical asthetics the design is worth a premium even if you don't get as much hardware as the price typically demands." you would have sounded far better reasoned and defended the macbook quite a bit more successfully then you did with your post. I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to contridict your post because there would be no reason to.
Oh and on a completely unrelated point, to the person who commented about a 64bit OS, three things: 1) its a 32 bit chip so the OS has to be 32 bit, 2) There is a 64 bit version of XP pro, and 3) can you name one tangible benifit YOU would get from it being 64bit.
There are actually several benifits, but I just want to see if you actually know the benifits or are simply assuming 64 > 32, so 64 bit must be better than 32 bit.
fogd00d @ Jan 18th 2006 12:58AM
http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/01/JOBS.jpg
Steveus: The Vista is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to sell more iPods to...
Vizion @ Jun 16th 2006 2:47PM
Quoting Jobs' prediction of Microsoft coming out with a player as a sign for his knowledge of the industry is like being in awe of a meteoroligist who says "it's going to rain sometime this year".
blah @ Jun 17th 2006 5:17PM
"Acer, Samsung, Asus, Dell, Toshiba, and HP are all offering comparable processors (or better), comparable graphics (or better), nicer screens, and all for a better retail price. The RETAIL price of the apple puts it in Voodoo PC or Alienware land for the configuration. Yes, some people argue that if you get the macs at education prices they are cheaper but they are then comparing discount vs. retail, which is an invalid comparison. If people want to argue from that standpoint then I should be able to price windows laptops based off of the combination of my education discount and employer discount I get at almost every major PC manufacturer (the benifit of taking night classes for the heck of it and having a nice job)."
your comparison between the prices of laptops made by apple and other laptops with similar hardware is really not fair, because all of the non-apple laptops you are talking about come with windows, an os which is inferior when compared to windows, and macs come with software which is all of the software that any general computer user will ever needs and it would cost hundreds of dollars to nuy comparable software for a windows pc.