China finalizes their TD-SCDMA 3G spec

Looks like China doesn't want to license nothing from no one, no how. They're already going their own way with FVD as their chosen standard for HD discs, and now they've finalized their TD-SCDMA 3G network spec so they don't have to pay up to Qualcomm or the 3G consortium to use the existing 3G standards. They're hoping for a "timely" rollout, and are expected to give out licenses this year, which means more proprietary phones for them, and less gadget love for us, but since China's expertise seems to mainly lie in making cheap (or expensive) knockoffs of phones we already have anyways, we're probably not going to be missing much.

[Sid @ Jan 20th 2006 4:10PM]

I think it'll be utterly stupid for a country with 1.3 billion people NOT to have their own standard but choose to PAY Qualcomm or the 3G consortium for license. Ain't it?

Proprietary? Who cares. Japanese got plenty of that all the time. Cheap (or expensive) knockoffs of phones? Well you can say that now - but the PSP you buy this year will be made in China and 10 years down the road maybe all the pretty phones u'll have will all be made in China too.

[MOGua @ Jan 20th 2006 4:49PM]

agreed with first post.

China is *still* a developing country. Imitation is one of the steps in becoming a developed country.

We can have some laughs with the "keepin' it real fake" gadgets but I think we should leave them alone with their proprietary technologies. (China Mobile gained 4 million customers just in Dec 05...VZW and Cingular can only dream for such growth.)

[Troy @ Jan 20th 2006 4:53PM]

Yea, if it weren't for China, i bet all of you are prob bitching about the expensive ipods, xbox360 and mobiles that have "Made in USA" labels.

[Troy @ Jan 20th 2006 4:53PM]

Yea, if it weren't for China, i bet all of you are prob bitching about the expensive ipods, xbox360 and mobiles that have "Made in USA" labels.

[Troy @ Jan 20th 2006 4:53PM]

Yea, if it weren't for China, i bet all of you are prob bitching about the expensive ipods, xbox360 and mobiles that have "Made in USA" labels.

[flipp @ Jan 20th 2006 5:15PM]

i wonder how long it'll be before we're borrowing tech from chinese companies? by going off on their own they can jump generations of junk that we still have to maintain and support in the us. they can start clean and learn from our mistakes.

it'll be interesting to see if they are able to capitalize on the current technology to drive their innovation. they can roll out newer tech faster because they don't have to continue to support legacy systems.

[Sid @ Jan 20th 2006 6:35PM]

http://blurtetsuo.blogspot.com/2006/01/engadget-mocking-chinas-own-3g.html

[yjs @ Jan 20th 2006 7:18PM]

Whoopee more racism! China is the world's biggest mobile phone market and all the major mobile phone companies would rather make proprietary models than missing out on the business opportunity.

[Mike @ Jan 20th 2006 10:13PM]

This isn't just about avoiding licensing fees. The Chinese want to force established handset makers (i.e. Samsung, Nokia, Motorola, etc) to make phones that conform to THEIR standard. The Chinese plan is to drive down the cost of making phones that run on their TD-SCDMA network... making it seem EXPENSIVE to make phones for GSM and CDMA networks used elsewhere.

If their power play works, other countries will have to switch technologies and start paying China for TD-SCDMA licenses.

I love how their "new" protocol is really just a hack job, combining two already established technologies. It's the Chinese doing what they do best, stealing and skirting the boundaries of IP for their own advantage, all while giving the rest of us the proverbial middle finger.

This sort of development SHOULD scare you. Do yourself a favor and pick up Ted Fischman's "China Inc" from Amazon. It's filled with all sorts of facts in regards to China's rapid economic rise and how it will have a profound effect on the rest of the world.

The US national debt is the scariest thing because Bush and Company are just adding to the pile. The only reason interest rates have stayed relatively low is because countries like China are lending us the money, buying treasury bonds. Now that they hold these bonds, we're paying interest on our debt... to China (among other countries). If we don't fix this problem, the US will end up just like Brazil... in such deep debt that it will take forever to climb out. Sadly, history never fails to repeat itself. I'm saving my pennies now, before it's too late.

[David @ Jan 20th 2006 11:00PM]

Holy Crap! This guy has read a book about China, and now he's a veritable expert on the subject!
Whoa whoa whoa! Corporations having to conform to a country's standard if they want to do business there? IS NOTHING SACRED?!?!?

[Mike @ Jan 21st 2006 10:59AM]

No need to be a smartass, Dave. I've read more than one book. What should scare you is that China has more Surplus Workers (i.e. people who want to work but there isn't enough jobs) than the US has PEOPLE. You wonder why jobs are disappearing...

Further, keep in mind that China is a COMMUNIST country. If you're old enough to remember the Cold War and the fall of communist russia in the 80's, you'll know why I'm nervous. China steals intellectual property left and right, but when they start to come up with their own (i.e. TD-SCDMA) you can bet that they'll protect it like a pack of rabid pitbulls.

[David @ Jan 21st 2006 12:18PM]

Mike:

1. China's government has actually been trying to crackdown on use of unauthorized software in it's own agencies. This is of benefit for them because it creates more jobs in-country.

2. The world doesn't operate in a "zero-sum game," it does not follow that if someone else is making money, then we must be losing money, or if another country is gaining jobs, then it must follow we must be losing jobs.
We CAN make nothing from something, not in the literal, physics-based sense, but in the relative sense because we have an unlimited resource known as "human invention." Rising from caves to skyskrapers is a testament of this.
The US job market is in a transition period. Yes jobs in manufacturing are being lost, but jobs are also being created in high-tech industries. Call it whatever you want, but I like the word, "progress."

3. I don't know what you actually believe life in China to be like, but it's not a totalitarian, police state where citizens cower from a malignant big brother. I don't know where your impressions come from, but I've been there. Thrice. Day to day life for the average person is pretty similar to life here. Surprise, surprise.

[Nag @ Jan 21st 2006 1:09PM]

I am a Chinese living in Hong Kong, so let me clarify a few points:

- China is a relatively free country now. Calling it totalitarian is plain wrong. Yes, you cannot say something really bad about the Party in public, but in private, no one cares. And it is changing too. I am quite optimistic about this.

- China is a Capitalism country. The Party is still called the Communist Party merely for historial reason. And no one (or very few) in China believes in Communism anyway.

- According to reliable sources, China is going to have *BOTH* TDS-CDMA, WCDMA and cmda2000, not just TDS-CDMA.

[Mike @ Jan 21st 2006 4:26PM]

While the party isn't Communisit in the strict sense, remember that the party's ideals are based on those of the former Soviet Union. Sure, Socialism has been replaced with Capatalism, but the people still lack representation. Just because it looks like freedom doesn't mean it is freedom. Plus, the bureaucrats are accountable to almost no one. They get away with all sorts of things... case and point: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4620450.stm

Much of what we see today in China is the Dark Side of Capatalism. It will only get worse before it gets better.

Secondly, I saw an expose on 60 Minutes a few months ago where they went inside all the IP theft that goes on in China. I'm not talking just software piracy (which still tops 90%), but copying clothing, watches, golf clubs... you name it. I have a friend who does business with a Chinese supplier and flies to China every 6 weeks. I've gotten the inside scoop and done some research. Just because you've "been there three times" doesn't mean anything. Have you see the conditions that factory workers deal with? Their living conditions? Seen their pay stubs? I pity those people who work 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week, for pennies.

China is a bigger police state than you realize. Have you forgotten that the government controls all media and shuts down anyone that goes too far or says the wrong thing?

Don't even get me started on The Great Firewall...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4587622.stm
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/12/0347200&from=rss
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/10/178223
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/01/0237245

[jak @ Jan 21st 2006 4:35PM]

Nag is right.

[jak @ Jan 21st 2006 4:38PM]

"Sure, Socialism has been replaced with Capatalism, but the people still lack representation. Just because it looks like freedom doesn't mean it is freedom. Plus, the bureaucrats are accountable to almost no one. They get away with all sorts of things"

wasnt sure if you were talking about the USA or china... ;)

[Wes @ Jan 22nd 2006 8:40AM]

First of all, the Chinese rarely likes to depend on others. They believe in themselves and try to make most on their own. So they are introducing their own network. That is good for them. Why make Qualcomm wealthier than it is already? Suffice to say, they didn't invent the technology entirely by themselves, but they need something to help them jump-start the process. It's unfortunate they had to "borrow" the technology, but isn't that what innovation is all about? Build upon others? Try not to make the same mistake as others? Once the chinese master the idea of creating new technologies, all of us will be relying on them.

In response to Mike's comment, China is going through major changes right now. You think with all the pressure from the US and the EU that things will change overnight or in the next few years. In the short-term we won't see any big changes. These changes will happen in smaller steps. It's not easy changing the life of more than a billion people. There is a huge gap between the rich and the poor. It will take a while to narrow that gap. In the long-term we will definitely see a different China from that of today and life will change, for the better.

I am living and working in China right now. There is just so many things happening, all at the same time. Yeah, I see all the fakes and knock-offs. So what, it gives these people a job. A job that will put 2 pieces of bread on the table(literally). If there were no piracy, can you imagine the amount of jobless workers? There would be total chaos. If looting ever breaks out in China, this would make the LA and New Orleans lootings look like rabbit droppings. The chinese government has to keep the people in check. Yes, there is no real freedom. But at the same time they cannot totally control the people.

BTW, I am working in one of those factories you speak of. The conditions are not as bad as you think. Chinese people tend to save more and spend less. Many factories cut corners and try to make the best of what they have or can afford. Yes, this is not the best way to do things, but they are used to it. In terms of living conditions, most factory workers live in dorms provided by the factory. They usually have 4-6 people per room. They are used to this. They have no shower head or bath tub. They have no need for things we take for granted in the US. You think they want to live like Americans? The standard American life is a dream to them. We are very fortunate to afford and live like that. And you know what, many wealthy chinese people are starting to do just that. Live like an American but in their own country. They drive BMWs, Mercedes,
Bentley's, u name it. The rich are getting richer here. They buy furniture and household items from IKEA as well as other brand names. Or they have custom made furniture, at very affordable costs. Can we do that in the US?

Pay stub? Heh, we don't get pay stubs here. The average chinese worker makes about $120US per month. This is in the factory areas. If you are fortunate enough and educated. You can earn about $700-1000US per month. The average middle class salary is about $5000YUAN which is about $641USD. Since the chinese tend to spend less, this is enough for them, for now.
6 people including myself spent 160YUAN on 10 dishes for dinner. Thats about $20USD. Food is cheap here. A McDonalds meal is a mere 24YUAN(about $3USD). The chinese people don't spend that much in a week on food. I had a bowl of noodles for 3YUAN, only 3!!. Thats like 35CENTS! FYI, this is in the suburbs.
In the big cities like Beijing and Shanghai, prices are relatively higher, but still cheaper than prices in NYC. I can stroll into 5-Star hotels and have a
lavish meal without breaking my wallet. Can a regular Joe Shmoe do that in NYC? Even if you gave the people more money, they may not know what to do with it.
Save most of it i guess. They are not materialistic yet. But its slowly developing. Make more, spend more, right? I guess its the same everywhere.

Guess what, I work 10 hours a day. 6 days a week. For what? For a mere $700USD/month, but that will increase this year. Can any of you imagine getting paid that little? Especially for IT work. No one I know would accept it, would you? I doubt it.

The government is changing, they are trying to crack down on corruption, but it ain't easy. Even legit businesses employ the locals to make the officials happy. Kickbacks and what-not. All signs of a developing nation. It won't get worse.

Firewall? Well, there are proxies. As far as the media is concerned, that will change slowly. A few things slip out every now and then.

If you want to know what is really happening in China, I urge you to listen to the podcasts on http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/china2006
They tell it like it is. No book would give you this kind of information.