Creative Zen Vision:M reviewed

It shouldn't be surprising that Anything But iPod likes the Creative Zen Vision:M (there does seem to be just a little bit of bias in the site's name), and ABi's review of the Vision:M certainly does highlight the PMP's strong points. Among the features the reviewer liked are the Vision:M's ability to play DivX and XviD, its "superb" video quality playback, and its "very intuitive" GUI. Their biggest gripe (beyond the fact that a video-out cable isn't available yet, and the resourceful reviewer had to resort to rolling his own in order to test this feature)? The fact that the Vision:M isn't mass-storage compliant, meaning you have to run software to upload content onto the device. But that's not enough to stop them from declaring that it's "everything the video iPod is and then some." (We did mention that this review is from Anything But iPod, right?)

[Big D @ Jan 20th 2006 9:49AM]

Small typo, Engadget...the title for this post should have been "Keepin' It Real Fake Part XVI"

[retro @ Jan 20th 2006 9:51AM]

What idiots. It's kind of sad, really, how desperate they are to make a competing player seem better than the iPod equivelent.

[biscuitus @ Jan 20th 2006 9:53AM]

by "and then some," I think they're referring to the fact that it's like twice as thick as an iPod.

[Tom @ Jan 20th 2006 9:55AM]

I used to have an MP3 player that wasn't mass-storage compliant. Can't even remember who made it, but it was a pain in the ass. Just want to hook my device up to the computer and drop files on it...

[leojsoap @ Jan 20th 2006 9:58AM]

I don't really care about the iPod vs. Everyone argument, but the trick photography in that is pretty underhanded, it doesn't take a genius to see past it, but it does give a false impression of thinness.

[Chris Robinson @ Jan 20th 2006 9:59AM]

So, what could have been an informative entry is instead essentially an attack on a crappy website.

Go Engadget!

[o0adam0o @ Jan 20th 2006 10:04AM]

I own an Ipod.....i like this Zen Vision....my biggest complaints is...thickness...and PRICE....come on! Apple has a hold on the ipod (a.k.a MP3 player) industry....bring down the price on it and im sure they will se more sales....

[Matt @ Jan 20th 2006 10:08AM]

I have a Vision:m...it is mass storage compliant after the firmware upgrade that is now available. I don't use any software to sync up - just drag and drop from Windows Explorer.

[pradhishkumar @ Dec 9th 2006 1:43PM]

helo sir,

i m planning to buy zen vision m. can u please tell me which firmware to upgrade to get it mass storage complaint, cause i also like to transfer files just in clicks no softwares

[Rob @ Jan 20th 2006 10:08AM]

The thinness doesn't bother me - I think the 5G is too thin. But as much as I want the better screen, the better sound quality, and the non-appleness, I have to admit: The none-UMS-compliant part seals the deal. I'm buying an iPod. Damn. I really didn't want to be an iPod lemming.

[thraal @ Jan 20th 2006 10:10AM]

"30GB drive"

what? no 60Gb? my music collection is 45Gb

[Matt @ Jan 20th 2006 10:13AM]

And why buy the official viedo-out cable when you can go into Radio Shack and buy one for $5??

The video quality is "superb" by the way. Look at the side-by-side comparison with the iPod screen - there's no comparison.

Screen Comparison

[Matt @ Jan 20th 2006 10:16AM]

Link didn't show up - here's the screen comparison:

http://www.everythingusb.com/creative_zen_vision:m_30gb.html

[DolphGB @ Jan 20th 2006 10:20AM]

The review is in line with all other reviews I've seen of the same device - they all say it's great, whether they are Apple fanboys (like everyone here) or not... :-)

[Whisky @ Jan 20th 2006 10:28AM]

To bad that it was announced back in December and still not available in stores. Only Creative online store and still only the black color model.

After emailing them about when they expect to have it in stores, I got a simple response of "no idea".

No wonder Apple kicks butt, they are always ready to go.

[ch424 @ Jan 20th 2006 10:28AM]

Whoa! I wouldn't mind the extra thickness for the extra screen quality! That's incredible!

And if it now is UMS compatible, that's even better.

ch424

[Ryan @ Jan 20th 2006 10:35AM]

Creative is marketing the Zen Vision:M as a DAP, not a PMP. It outclasses the 5th gen iPod in many ways:

Much better screen? Creative
Longer video battery life? Creative
Codec support (divx, xvid)? Creative
AC Adaptor? Creative

[TWV @ Jan 20th 2006 10:36AM]

I think the review is fairly unbiased. There are two mentions of the iPod and one of them is positive.

From the review:

"However, if I had to choose one over the other, the iPod's click wheel is more accurate and less likely to miss select menu items."

Kind of hard to call that bias.

[Dale @ Jan 20th 2006 10:41AM]

That screen comparison is BS. Look at the black border on the iPod . . it's washed out and the whole image setting is different than the Zen thing. I have seen the iPod screen and it looks as good as they make the zen look.

[Jan @ Jan 20th 2006 10:53AM]

The Zen Vision:M is available at Fry's nationwide http://www.outpost.com/ and J&R Music World http://www.jr.com/ in NY.

I've seen it and it's not any thicker than a 5g 60gb. Vision:M more substantial than the 5g 30gb yet still VERY light-weight!

[Sean @ Jan 20th 2006 10:55AM]

But you can trust a site called anythingbutipod.com? Best bet is to do research before buying any product and read a variety of sites. For example look at Cnet.com; funny how they've chosen 4 Creative products 4 years in a row for best of CES, even though those other products suffered from crap-ulitis.
If Creative is only selling this product online, on their store, there will never be a large product user base. Given Creative's lackluster record of support and updates (which is important for any product that claims to play Divx/Xvid) be wary, very wary. Anyone know how much this thing costs?

PS I don't own an iPod video, or any other PMP. At least I won't unitl they support 1920x1080 HD out! Should only be 10 years or so b4 that happens.

[Mark @ Jan 20th 2006 10:57AM]

Good thing engadget evened out the karma of the tech-blog world by adding some bias of their own.

[Whisky @ Jan 20th 2006 11:05AM]

#19 J&R only in NYC
I can't hold on off, i need a player because my old one broke.

If they just could have it already in CC and BB that would be great...
I still think their marketting sucks.

[david @ Jan 20th 2006 11:10AM]

Lack of mass storage support isn't merely inconvenient -- it's deadly to anyone like me who doesn't have a Windows PC at all. The hardware looks great, but for this Mac and Linux user, it's out of the running.

PlaysForSure == CanNotUseIt

[golden @ Jan 20th 2006 11:13AM]

That screen comparison is a lie!!!
I've got the ipod video and it's nothing like the one on that site...It has a great quality.

BTW, ipod video looks better, is only half the thickness and makes a bigger impression :P

[Jon @ Jan 20th 2006 11:16AM]

I think many Ipod fans continue to ignore it's biggest lack...which is that Ipod has no subscription service nor is the Ipod compatible with the growing number of subscription services that are out there. I use yahoo's subscription and I absolutely love it. I was watching MTV last night and saw two bands I thought were interesting...15 minutes later, I had 6 albums downloaded from these two bands under the subscription. I would never have been so free to purchase albums before getting the subscription.

IPOD lacks WMA compatibility. IPOD is not WMA Plays For Sure compliant. IPOD is not Media Center compliant. You have no Choice with an Ipod as all you get is Itunes. With any other media player you can choose from a growing number of places to purchase music and subscription services (Yahoo Music, MSN, Wal-Mart, Amazon, Napster, and more. You can't stream songs purchased on Itunes on a Media Center extender such as an Xbox 360.

Media Center PC's are growing in popularity and I think MC will explode with Windows Vista and everyone will soon want many of the features I listed above as standard fare.

I won't waste my money on an isolated product just because it looks cool!

[Travis @ Jan 20th 2006 11:16AM]

My issue is the storage capacity... once my 40gb Zen Xtra goes I will have to choose between the 60Gb Toshiba or iPod. I don't want the hassle of constantly pruning my music collection to fit.

[Jon @ Jan 20th 2006 11:23AM]

Mac's and Ipod not being Plays For Sure compliant is not an MS problem but an Apple problem!

Apple has isolated their product from being compatible with WMA and Plays For Sure.

Apple Ipod = Can't Play
No compatibility with subscription services
No compatibility with Napster, Yahoo Music, Real, Wal-Mart.com, MSN Music, BuyMusic.com, Amazon Music.
No compatibility with Media Player 10
Not Plays for sure compliant
No compatibility whith many Media Extenders on the Market.

Ipod = No choice

[Matt @ Jan 20th 2006 11:33AM]

The vision:m's screen has more the 4 times as many colors - this is not debateable. Call the screenshots a lie all you want, but the pictures are in line with expectations when you look at the screen specs.

[corsica @ Jan 20th 2006 11:36AM]

so can anyone verify that the new firmware does make this thing UMS compliant?

[TZK @ Jan 20th 2006 11:38AM]

OK, so they like it - OK. Go to any ipod supporting site and you will see them liking ipods too.

Also, its AS THICK as the 60GB version. SO? I think its a matter of options... ipod plays music and videos and has solitaire. OK, great.

This has more. Not everyone is looking for an ipod. Some people are looking for something else.

Dont worry about it.

[JL @ Jan 20th 2006 11:38AM]

It's nice to have a CHOICE with regards to PMP's and content providers.

I guess there are many (iPod owners) who wish to deny those of us that desire choice the opportunity for such.

If the iPod platform is the truly superior digital audio player, would it not have stamped out all competition by now?

Hmnnn.. Lemme see... Nope, not by a long shot.

[DolphGB @ Jan 20th 2006 11:45AM]

Golden said: That screen comparison is a lie!!! I've got the ipod video and it's nothing like the one on that site... It has a great quality.

Ummm - have you actual got the Creative so you can do a true comparison then? If not, I'd go with the lie until you see otherwise...

[David T @ Jan 20th 2006 11:50AM]

#24: it's impossible to be completely accurate when comparing a photo of something displayed on a screen, with real life. however, if both were taken with the same digital camera and now displayed on the same screen, the DIFFERENCE between them is still true - i.e. iPod may not look as washed out as in the photo, but the M will still be clearer in comparison.

also, you cannot (AFAIK) change saturation, and it is this point, plus the brightness settings, which were specifically pointed out in the review. it's not a lie, sorry.

as for #23: please read the other comments. it is now mass storage compliant. so PlayForSure, then =)

[Revrant @ Jan 20th 2006 11:58AM]

People, the comparison shows them under circumstances that are *not* ideal, I.E., with a healthy amount of direct light, they don't say that, but that's what it is, who the hell wants to see a screen under ideal circumstances? You're never in ideal circumstances, people, so that is moot.

Gosh, Engadget, Kiss job's ass a little harder, better yet, press your lips to a hot iron and Brand your lips to his ass, just change the site to "AppleFanBois.com" and stop being coy, if you can't recognize a good product regardless of your brand alignment, don't recognize it's existence, Audio-Technica has gotten by fine while being ignored by the tech site populace, I'm sure many others could too.

I love these though, I make sure to write down everyones name who spews Apple fanboyisms so I can ignore them in the future. =)

[daniel @ Jan 20th 2006 12:08PM]

thats rubbish bout plays for sure my rio carbon is plays for sure but it still works with my linux system but it will only play drm wma's if u connect it to xp or xp mce

[SplendaRob @ Jan 20th 2006 12:10PM]

#30 - support section of the creative website will list firmware updates. Here's the summary of the one available for the vision:m

This download contains an improved version of your Zen� Vision:M's firmware. It enhances your Zen Vision:M with PlaysForSure� functionality and improves your player's audio, video playback and picture features. For more details, read the rest of this web release note.

PlaysForSure devices enable you to:

Use subscription-based online music services
Enjoy seamless support with any computer running Microsoft� Windows Media� Player 10 and Windows� XP - no drivers or software needed
***Use the drag-and-drop method to transfer songs or files to your player through Windows Explorer***
Use the Sync feature in Windows Media Player 10 to synchronize your player with your music library and playlists.

(asterisk emphasis mine)

There's more details too about how the update improves video playback but I don't think it's necessary to go into detail on that right now.

[Big D @ Jan 20th 2006 12:13PM]

I doubt that Engadget is consciously in bed with Apple. Maybe some of their contributors, like many MANY other members of the tech-loving populous, have been screwed over by the utter shoddiness of Creative's offerings in the past. As a disgruntled owner of a half-working MuVo, I speak from experience. This is not blind anti-everything-but-Apple ranting, but rather an reasonably cautious nod to a company that has a WAY less-than-stellar reputation.

[Ward @ Jan 20th 2006 12:30PM]

I have a choice of content providers for my iPod. I can go to any of thousands of retailers nationwide, buy shiny discs that contain un-DRMed, full quality digital audio, convert them to the format of my choice, and listen to them on my iPod.

I'd much rather own my music than rent it.

[Rob @ Jan 20th 2006 12:30PM]

OK, so if the UMS compliance is fixed that helps. Now, how do I reconcile the fact that iPod has more car adapters, including cool harnesses for difficult cars like my Honda? With Creative, you have to have an input jack or use a third-party FM transmiter? Don't the FM transmitters all suck?

with iPod I can but a dock for my Onkyo receiver so I can control it with my A/V receiver remote.

And Podcasting... can I single-click and download a podcast to a Zen? I noticed that Engadget is an option on Zencast now - that's a good start. Enhanced Podcasts are an iPod-only option, too, right?

I just don't want to be constantly saying "Dang, I could do that if only I had an iPod".

[Chad @ Jan 20th 2006 12:36PM]

I'm all about sound quality. Which one has the best? Creative or Ipod?

[Kassidy @ Jan 20th 2006 12:41PM]

http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download.asp?sOSName=Windows+XP®ion=1&Product_Name=ZEN+Vision%3AM&Product_ID=14331&modelnumber=&driverlang=1033&OS=10&drivertype=0&Image4.x=16&Image4.y=14

"This download contains an improved version of your Zen� Vision:M's firmware. It enhances your Zen Vision:M with PlaysForSure� functionality and improves your player's audio, video playback and picture features. For more details, read the rest of this web release note.

PlaysForSure devices enable you to:

* Use subscription-based online music services
* Enjoy seamless support with any computer running Microsoft� Windows Media� Player 10 and Windows� XP - no drivers or software needed
* Use the drag-and-drop method to transfer songs or files to your player through Windows Explorer
* Use the Sync feature in Windows Media Player 10 to synchronize your player with your music library and playlists.

Important:

* Do not disconnect the USB cable from your player or computer during installation.

Fixes:

* Improves MP3 audio playback quality.
* Improves the smoothness of WMV and AVI video playback.
* Ensures proper functionality when pictures are deleted in thumbnail view.
* Ensures proper video playback functionality when a large number of video files are transferred to your Zen Vision:M player."

The specs on the Vision:M are far superior to anything Apple has put out so far. This is the classic popularity contest at work (think Xbox vs Playstation 2) ... better hardware and capabilities, but one is more popular because of the brand name.

My personal opinion is that Apple has put out some great products, but just not the best products. Creative and Apple's other competitors just need to do a better job advertising and getting their products on the shelves with slightly lower prices. That should be their short-term goal. In the long-term, Apple really cannot expect to compete in any free marketplace. The compatability factor with online mp3/video services, most audio/video formats, satellite radio ... plus their lack of manufacturing power as comparied to the other 99% of the marketplace means that eventually their product will be dust.

The argument taking place is worthless. All of these products work for what most people need them for. As to which one is the best, LOOK AT THE SPEC SHEETS and then use both yourself. Creative is clearly on top as of this moment.

[Syd @ Jan 20th 2006 12:49PM]

> What idiots. It's kind of sad, really, how desperate they are to make a competing player seem better than the iPod equivelent.

What's sad is that Apple has become the "Microsoft" of MP3 players. It really ISN'T that hard to make competing players seem better, there are a bunch of players that do more, sound better, playback more formats and cost less. But apparently it's going to take a large corporation to go head-to-head with Apple, a brand that the average consumer would be trust-worthy of right off the bat. Alot of people I know have the various Archos players. Why? Because they've seen mine and actually been able to use it in the real world. They've watched gorgeous Divx-encoded movies on it, they've seen it dock quickly and easily with no software.

Your average Joe Consumer is going to go to Best Buy and listen to some corporate-stooge talking head tell them "there's a reason why everyone has an iPod." I'm not sure if it's because the "lemming" mentality has gotten out of control in the US or because Apple uses it's connections to encourange those sales-morons to push it's products; thus creating a never-ending cycle of mediocrity.

The iPod has ONE thing - the scroll wheel. That's it. Well, it does have an absurd amount of accessories - however I don't need all those $40 add-ons because an Archos does most of them OUT OF THE BOX. It even does USB-hosting, how many players out there do that? Could you imagine how cool iPods would really be if you could dock one into another and share files without a PC? Yea, I know - the RIAA, bla bla bla. As long as far more consumer-friendly devices exist, I will ALWAYS choose them over something proprietary such as an iPod.

It's as simple as this - the retailers (and corporate-sponsored websites) are record-label and music industry friendly so they push what benefits them first and foremost. The smart consumer sees past the hype, past what "everyone else" has, and makes the smarter choice. Unfortunately, most American consumers are idiots.

[John B. @ Jan 20th 2006 12:50PM]

I own a Vision M that I recently bought as a replacement for my trustworthy 20GB Nomad Zen USB 2.0. The guy that sits next to me brought his 30GB iPod with video in today and we compared playback. Though we viewed different content,the Vision M was crisper and richer in details and colors according to both of us. I will add that within the first 2 hours of my using the player - it locked up on me and had to be reset. This also happened to my Nomad Zen approx 12 times in the last 3 1/2 years. At the time it locked I was viewing an 80's music video in MPEG format. I haven't gone back to see if it happens again.

What I would change about the Vision M -

1. Make the touchpad less sensitive (even with the sensitivity at low)

2. Support AC3 audio or downgrade AC3 to something that will play.

3. Offer other colors for the accessories other than white to match the player.

[intheknow @ Jan 20th 2006 1:13PM]

In most things, I have my head so far up M$'s a$$ that I can say they better do something about those polyps. Anyways, I really wanted something that wasn't Apple for a portable music/video player. I wanted the first 2 generations of Creative's player to be decent, they weren't. Now along comes the "M" after Christmas. 2 months after I bought my 5G iPod. I continue to be thrilled with my 5G. The colors are vibrant, it is no problem to copy things from one of my 3 TiVos, after replacing the earbuds, the sound is very good.

Creative took too long here. They are firmly stuck in "me too" land and will only gather niche customers. If this thing had been announced and available before the 5G, Creative would be raking in the dough. Alas, this is not the case. By next Christmas there will be something better.

This is the 3rd or 4th screen comparison I've seen and can only say "hogwash" the 5G's screen is not washed out in the least.

Plays For Sure was M$'s answer to iTunes. Still playing catch up. With Yahoo, Musicmatch, etc. etc., iTunes isn't even challenged.

[Rob @ Jan 20th 2006 1:32PM]

Which Archos is competitive with this one? Do they even offer a player in the 30-60gig range for around $300-400? I don't want to carry around a $500-1,000 loseable/stealable media player that will be upstaged in a year, obsolete in two, useless in three. Hell, if Sony got their heads out of their holes, they would allow me to record MP3's and MP4's onto UMD's and I'd be toting a PSP!

[zip22 @ Jan 20th 2006 2:03PM]

this is not the same size as the 60gb ipod. it is 33% bigger than the 60gb ipod.

creative zen vision:m 30GB - 18.6mm
apple ipod 60GB - 14mm

[josh @ Jan 20th 2006 2:27PM]

"I've seen it and it's not any thicker than a 5g 60gb."

The Creative is .7 inches thick; the 60gb ipod is .55 inches. Not a huge difference, but noticable. The 30 gb iPod is .43 inches thick.

"The none-UMS-compliant part seals the deal. I'm buying an iPod. Damn. I really didn't want to be an iPod lemming."

I don't think the iPod is, either. You can drag files yo it but you can't play them unless you add them in software.


Personally, if I had to choose between this and iPod, I would go iPod because 30 GB is not enough for me.

[Pip @ Jan 20th 2006 2:39PM]

Hahah, I love all the blind Apple hate around here.

Rage on, rage on. Grrr! I need my play4sure! That format ROCKS HARDCORE MANNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

[Mike @ Jan 20th 2006 2:55PM]

pros:
- sync with outlook is a big plus. removes the necessity to carry around my pda. makes it more of an all-in-one device.
- i also like the optional wired remote more than the bulky/ugly/screeming-i-have-an-ipod ipod+fm wired remote.
- codec

cons:
- no itrip.
- no scroll wheel (although the new ones aren't as nice as the old ones, but it's still the best design. why doesn't someone make a player with a mouse-wheel type navigation??)
- more complicated to get pod casts (although i refuse to use itunes, so that's not a big bonus [ephpod all the way])
- no 60 gig