We
were a bit wary when we first
got an
offer for an RFID credit card, but we're defintely gonna fight tooth-and-nail to become the few, the proud, the
Metropolitan Transportation Authority "selected customers" who will be involved in a six-month trial for
contactless NYC subway payment/entry. The MTA is teaming up with Citigroup and Mastercard to implement a version of
MasterCard's
PayPass system, which in a lucky coincidence for
MasterCard, will also allow people to use their new passes at McDonald's, 7-11, and other such profitable locations.
And to save our foreign readers precious commenting time, we already know that you all have had systems like this for
25 years now and compared to Europe/Asia/Canada the US is still in the technological Stone Age.
posted Feb 1st 2006 8:30AM
I wonder if my HSBC PayPass works. I'll definitely be testing it out.
If you know that the world already has such stuff for ages, why do you bother to post ? Or is it under the category superdeficitpower is catching up with the world ?
We sound a little angry today, don't we?
Do you mean "wary?"
Wow. NYC might even feel like home with a system like Hong Kong's Octopus RFID subway ticket/vending machine/electronic cash system. I can imagine the funny conversations though...
New Yorker "Betcha don't have anything like this where you come from!"
Hong Konger "actually...."
I'm from Europe and where i live (Switzerland) we don't have contactless ticketing in public transports.
There was a trial once from the federal railway company but it was stopped because it was too expensive.
So, way to go U.S. of A!
Transport for London have had a RFID ccard system in place for about 24 months now on all buses, and tubes.
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
washington dc has had these for 5 years.
we call it smartrip.
but then again, it's not like it's new for nyc to be late to the party. always late, but always makes a splashy entrance.
in london its called the "Oyster" card.. whats with the connection to the ocean!? (octopus, oyster..blehbleh)
New Yorker "Betcha don't have anything like this where you come from!"
Hong Konger "actually....we have Octupus"
New Yorker "Yea, you have an octupus alright."
The DC Metro has a contactless pass system called SmartTrip. The cards are pretty short range (probably magnetic) but they work from inside my wallet.
Best of all, the cards work on Metro busses, and I believe the Maryland bus system is working to support the passes as well.
I have 4 RFID cards for HongKong, ShangHai, GuangZhou and ShenZhen china. Not only can I use them for Subway and 7-11 (yes, they have 7-11 in China) but also Vending machines (got a few bottles of Coca Cola that way), Taxi Cabs, Water Ferry's and buses.
So keep going NYC, perhaps you'll catch up someday. Of course by then China will likely have a Universal RFID card up and going (at least for the Mainland anyway)...
very disappointed.
well looks like usa will lead this and not europe.
London and Tokyo dwellers are also using contactless payments in Japanese railway stations.
"launching a trial that will allow riders of the Paris' subway and bus systems to use RFID-enabled cell phones as contactless transit cards."
"can be used to pay fares on Korean subways and buses"
"washington dc has had these for 5 years"
http://news.com.com/2102-1039_3-6033364.html?tag=st.util.print
i still need a reciept for tax purposes for transportation to non-salaried jobs.
"speed and convenience that contactless payments can provide to New York's busy commuters" they always bill and sell it on convienence.
and on an episode of Law & Order they already used the MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority)'s logs of Metrocard swipes to track the suspect.
Currently only an electronic log is made when a Metrocard is swiped to gain entry into the system.
sure they'll phase it (RFID) in and then all turnstiles will have it within 5-10 years. 3 million people tracked everyday when they enter _AND_ leave the system so the NYC Subway MTA will know where people are using trains from where to where and further reduce service and raise fares. 1994 = $1.25 2007 = $2.25 or $2.50.
and once people have the RFID chip on themselves who knows where other readers will track them throughout the nyc metropolitan area. Any Commuter train station entrance/exit, any commuter train platform, every airport and bus station entrance. and RFID readers at intervals throughout each facility. And then commuter buses, and city buses.
It's not that far off and no one is looking at the big picture.
Then they will make deals with marketers and advertising companies to make actual ads like in the film "Minority Report" that will be personalized because you are in the area walking by. Oh yes, that's revenue for a financially troubled transportation system in less than a decade. And once it's there it won't go away. Bombarded with advertising.
-kspaz
How would this work for unlimited ride metrocards? I still ride it enough that the $76 is worth it.
Hey Ypoknons (aka Hong Konger):
Have you seen the New York subway map (http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/submap.htm) and the range it covers, and compared to the Hong Kong Metro one (http://de.geocities.com/m_hong_kong/hong-kong.htm)?
Seems like all you have going for you is the Octupus. Red Lobster, anyone?
You do realize that the Hongkong transit system reaches out a lot further than the new york one?
it goes between all the different islands and such.
You have to click the map to get a "to scale" one.
http://de.geocities.com/m_hong_kong/metro_HK.jpg
"We are in awe of so big American subway"
#14, wow much smaller than NYC, the Hong Kong map reminds me of a larger Train/subway system used in philly, camden, and sorounding areas
great, if they do this then our fares will increase even more up here. Metrocard machines cost a buttload, becuase they are all specially made, with little to no out-of-the-box components, right now our fare of $2 per ride covers the machines, the other money the need for things comes from the State...
oh, I forgot one more thing is that all the buses take the octopus card too, so even though the subway system isnt quite as involved, they have tonnes of buses to take you everywhich way that you cant to.
OH and they also have the old trams running along the streets too. those take octopus cards as well.
Yeah, RFID would be nice...
BUT! If they have that extra $$$ to invest, why don't they come up with plans to make timetables posted at every station and stick with it (please come on-time, MTA), and to make staffs nicer??? Those issues kinda negates whole woo's & ahh's.
My jaw was dropped when I saw the MTA campain ad. It goes like this:
Visiter: Do you know what time the next train arrives?
Local: Soon.
Visiter: Soon? Don't they have timetable?
Local: They come and go all the time. It just works.
While they're discussing it, the train arrived. They smiled and hopped on the train.
...PLEASE.
Boston's rolling out a similar system in 2006. It's called the CharlieCard after the ancient folk song from the 40s called Charlie on the MTA (wiki it!). I've used London's Oyster Cards and they are an absolute wonder, I can't wait for Boston's system to get moving!
Chicago has had this for a few years now, they've even had dedicated lanes at most "L" stops and even on some buses for about a year now. I LOVE it. It's so nice in the morning or afternoon rush hour when there's a line of about 15 people at each turnsitle, then you see the "go lane" as they call it, and there's no one. I just pull out my wallet (or wherever the card is) and wave it in front of the little circle. It rocks. Trust me NY, you'll love it.
We have something like this in the bus system here in S?Paulo (Brasil) and it allows you to take 3 buses in a 4 hour period.
They're even testin a subway and train integration using the same card.
We just don't have 7-11 here anymore... hehe
@ Brian NYC
Did you realise that the HKG Octopus card does cover ALL public transportation(ferries, buses, mini-buses, railways, mtr, trams) and tons of shops to pay there too ? Can you pay your tax over the internet and use a e-certificate as electronic signature that is integrated in your ID ? No ? Well HKG has it already for a while.
This kind of system is brilliant. The london oyster system is saving time and is just easyier than getting the right change out.
But what makes me happy is that my university (southampton university) has a similar system which works on the buses, when i eat at the canteen, gaining access to bicyle sheds and some building access... probably something i forgot.
The only thing i'd love (but not sure how practical it would is if you could just walk within say a metre and leave the card in your pocket.
Oh and i'd like the transport to be cheaper! 200 a year is too much for a bus network which has 4 buses.
in hong kong its called a octopus card. we can shop at mc d's with it too!
Lest everyone who hasn't been to NY get confused, we already have electronic passes that work for unlimited travel on subway AND buses. It's just a magnetic swipe card instead of RFID. Except when you get stuck behind someone with a bad card (once every 4-5 months for me) I can't imagine RFID being any faster. I don't even stop walking as I swipe my card.
Coming from a person that takes the DC metro system everyday i can say our touchless system just works. First you must purchase a card $5, then add value using the self service machines. Then when you walk through the entrance, you hold the card to the reader (even in a wallet). Everyone is able to walk through without breaking stride. One benefit is that you dont see each little charge on the creditcard, cause you add value in bulk.
so many haters! nyc in the hizouse.
21 DC Metro stops give you the exact time of the next train (and what line it is if your on a dual line track). Not to mention the arrival times of the next 2 trains. They even tell you how many cars the train has.
Very cool and very accurate.
I have one of the DC Metro SmartTrip cards. You can buy them anonymously for cash at Metro stations and add cash to them whenever you want. For years, I avoided buying one because I thought it could be used to follow me through the Metro system like in the Law & Order episode mentioned by #13. I think it can happen if you let Metro add to your card automatically by billing your credit card.
How much MTA going to steal from that?
South Korea (the subway map makes New York's subway look like a toy train set) uses an RFID card that works on the subway/bus. Has been for the past 6 years from what I've gathered. Pretty cool to get on a bus, put your butt up against the scanner and hear it beep without even pulling out your wallet.
But yeah, NY could use a visual train arrival time like the trains in DC. So far NY trumps most other subways I've ridden on in terms of at least running in the after hours... even if they are far and few between.
I live in New York, thank you. I go to NYU, to be exact. I'm simply tired of the perception by some, select Americans less enlightened than Blass that the Hong Kong is some of kind of backwater and America is some technological utopia, and yes I am abrasive in my comparisons. I do the same thing to my Hong Kong friends about Coldstone.
Bombay Rogggkkkkss***
We got the best system... Free entry and exit!!! You can buy Monthly/Quarterly/Yearly passes and they are checked(if at all) on the train itself or while waiting for one on the platform)
Pure genius.. or should I say Indigenous!!!
More (if interested):
Mumbai Suburban Railway
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Mumbai suburban railway)
Jump to: navigation, search
Suburban rail network.The Mumbai Suburban Railway system, part of the public transport in Mumbai, carries more than 6.1 million commuters everyday. It has the highest passenger density in the world.
More than half of the total daily passenger trips on Indian Railways are performed on Mumbai Suburban Railway system.
Incidentally, this was the first railway in the east formed in April 1853. The first train in the east (in Asia) ran between Mumbai and Thane, a distance of 34 km. Today, there are a lot of things on the line that are old and that have heritage value.
The map(Since everyone seems to be throwing one in)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Mumbai_suburban_rail_map.png
That's an Ooops...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Suburban_Railway
Aaaaarrrggghhhhh... linky not workin, if one of you geniasses can figure it out, pls do.
Peace
If New York were its own country, its army, the New York City Police Department, would be the twentieth-best-funded army in the world, just behind Greece and just ahead of North Korea. Its GDP, $413.9 billion, would be the seventeenth largest, just behind the Russian Federation and just ahead of Switzerland. With more than 8 million residents, it would be more populous than Ireland, Switzerland, or New Zealand; roughly half the countries in the Middle East (including Israel); most of the former republics of the Soviet Union; and all the Scandinavian countries besides Sweden.
You don't Compare NYC to other cities you, compare it countries.
In response to the person who asked about security...
The security is actually great on them. I have used the octopus card in Hong Kong for years now, and nothing bad has ever happened to it. Basically, since its a pay-as-you-go system, generally, unless you are really unfond of having to go to 7-11 or a station to put more money in your card, you usually have only 50-200HKD in there at one time. So even if you lose your card, that'd only be 25 USD in one shot.
And since the cards aren't linked to you, like you don't have to give the guy your name or SSN when you buy it, nobody will steal your personal information with it.
And if you're worried about accidentily swiping it when you dont mean to, no worries about that. The sensor has only a tiny radius, and your card has to be right next to it.
Of course, here, they're questioning the actual amount of time saved by this. And I have to say, that it is quite useful, especially for women. It saves you the trouble of having to dg through your wallet to find your card, or if youre a woman, your purse, and then your wallet. Just saves time, and effort, and I love my octopus card.
I use an Octopus watch, so I can pay for trains, beer, busses, etc. by just passing my wrist across the scanner. This is much more handy than having to dig out your wallet.
http://www.octopuscards.com/consumer/products/other/en/index.jsp
#40, that's pretty damn cool. I wonder what hkg will be doing by the time NYC catches up to where you are now? Maybe rfid under the skin?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/fashion/thursdaystyles/02tags.html