LAPD to test squad car launched GPS darts to track high-speed chases
By Paul Miller 
posted Feb 4th 2006 2:00PM
posted Feb 4th 2006 2:00PM
[Via Boing Boing]
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I often envisioned a technology of this type that could be useful in identifying targets for bombing. The scud missiles are the perfect example. Of course, this takes someone or something on the ground to attach one of these gumballs to the underside of a missile. Scary business, no doubt, but to be able to track a scud missile, or pinpoint illegal factories or hidden al Qaeda caves for bombing at a later more advantageous time would be quite useful, I think.
A better solution would be to develop a directed E.M.P. (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) system to blow out the ignition system, thus preventing the miscreants from fleeing in the first place.
No Tracking necessary, no further risk to the public and no high-speed chases.
This might be a few years away, but such things could even be buried in the pavement and activated on demend.
#44 got it right. It's a tool, like many others we carry, to be used in accordance with training, policy, good judgement and only in the hands of men and women earnestly trying to protect the community. I've chased bad guys on major highways, in snow and pouring rain, and down gravel roads, and every time I've come away exhausted and greatly relieved that everyone survived. Law enforcement IS changing, and a large part of that change will involve seeking solutions to problems such as this one. It all merits discussion, but such endeavors shouldn't be driven by fear. Everyone in this discussion (save the writer from Brazil, and I have no idea where he's coming from) supports stopping dangerous criminals. Make no mistake--people running from the police in cars are using deadly force against each and every person they pass on the road. So, lets all look to LAPD to help us find some answers and at least give them the respect they deserve for be willing to try something new.
Your information strongly has helped me, thank you for it!
Amazing picture! Horses and vehicle! I realy never saw which beautiful photo!
Your information strongly has helped me, thank you for it!
Finally, no more malicious pit manuevers by overzealous po-pos on a power trip.
that picture is perfect hahaha
at least this is more intelligent than chasing them, which makes them try harder to get away
So when the badguys figure out they have been tagged, they jack another car, putting that person in harms way. The low tech solution would be, run from the cops, catch a high speed low drag lead projectile in the head. I bet you wouldn't see too many hi speed chases after that. And, I would rather see "overzeolous po-pos" take out a car than have the same car take out a bus full of kids. Running from the police is stupid! I don't feel sorry for anyone who gets hurt running from the police.
So now they are gonna just watch the out of control drivers instead of stoping them?
Then they just let the guy go and guy jumps out of moving car and they follow the car. I can see it happening
I did almost this exact concept as a project for school last year. Love the picture
at #3: "The low tech solution would be, run from the cops, catch a high speed low drag lead projectile in the head." "Running from the police is stupid! I don't feel sorry for anyone who gets hurt running from the police." Very few days ago a guy was killed by police here in Brazil because he run from the cops. He didn't commit any crime and he didn't have a gun, simply his driving license was outdated. Do you find it acceptable that someone get killed just for not wanting to receive a ticket? Do you find it acceptable that someone get killed just because they were confused with the real criminals and wasn't in mood to obey a cop? Do you find it acceptable that someone is killed without having any gun and without having commited any crime? If yes, I think it's you who deserves a shot in your head, you bastard!
"Wasn't in the mood to obey a cop?"
What the hell? Your entire argument falls off a high cliff at that point. You don't have a choice in obeying a cop. That's the only reason why the system works. Jesus christ, how would you even type something so stupid?
#8 What is your deal...none of those questions are relevant...when someone chooses to run from the police, endangering the safety of others in the process, they welcome the use of force against themselves. When you endanger the lives of others, you endanger your own life by the trheat from those who's job it is to protect the general public from law breaking criminals. I don't care if you run from a cop cause you got the runs and are trying to make it to a bathroom...the second you do...you are breaking the law...and if you endanger lives doing so, than don't complain when someone bust a cap in your ass or performs a pit manuever on your vehicle.
"Wasn't in the mood to obey the cops" Priceless! And get it right, I am an EVIL bastard. Thats MR. Evil Bastard to you. Thanks for watching my back Jon.
I'll have to wrap my accutracking.com phone in a goey substance and launch it at a passing car....sweet.....
How long till be get this in a .454 casull round to fit a Mateba? (Go watch Ghost in the Shell).
Hah, so, where'd the picture come from? That's obviously a 2003-2005 Nebraska License Plate...
You brazillians are crazy with your favelas. I've seen City of God. Running from the cops looks alright to everyone.
I think cars sold in the US should be required to have an engine kill switch installed that can be remotely operated by the police. Obviously, it should be hack-proof. And only the police should be able to activate it. Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right.
Now if we could just get that GPS data added to a Google Maps mashup, we'd have a perfect interface for tracking LA's most popular high-speed escape routes.
Like they need this.
Most of the car chases I've seen on tv in L.A. involve some fool driving 5mph in a big circle for 4 hours until he runs out of gas. While talking on a cell phone to check if he is on tv. And with about 40 police cars following, so they can be on tv. :P
And the CR: when was the last time you actually heard of some carjacker hitting a busload full of kids while in a car chase? A little dramatic, don't you think?
FYI, carjackings don't happen all that often. I think I've heard of about 5 in the past 10 years. I'm sure there have been more, but its not really something people worry about or care about. Unless your the type of person that lives in fear of everything.
"I think cars sold in the US should be required to have an engine kill switch installed that can be remotely operated by the police. Obviously, it should be hack-proof. And only the police should be able to activate it. Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right."
Yeah, that's what we need to do; cede more control of our lives to the authorities and government. Hell why don't we give them a back door to our bank accounts in case someone tries to steal our money, or maybe they can install cameras in our houses to watch it in case someone breaks in. Great solution TomW, I applaud you for your insightful thinking - because we know authorities will never abuse the power they are given. "Driving is a privilege, not a right" - Yeah, well so was voting until 1965 in the US. What a moronic comment.
Instead of a GPS, the cops should fire sticky grenades, exactly like the ones they use in Unreal Tournament 2004.
Then whenever the cop presses the alternate-fire button on his sticky grenade launcher, the bad guy's car would just blow up.
Another benefit of using sticky grenades is that if the cop who launched the sticky grenade ever dies, like from either a car crash or from a bad guy's bullet, all sticky grenades fired by the now-dead cop automatically blow up, thus killing the bad guy.
More things should work the way they do on Unreal Tournament 2004; we'd have fewer problems in law enforcement.
I can think of about a dozen more examples of how law enforcement can be improved by using the technology of UT 2004. Email me offline if you're currently in law enforcement and interested in the details.
"Hell why don't we give them a back door to our bank accounts in case someone tries to steal our money, or maybe they can install cameras in our houses to watch it in case someone breaks in." -Hardcore
Well Hardcore, at least my suggestion had some logic to it. Your examples of why the government should not be given any more power exhibit little more than irrational paranoia and borders on a medical condition.
I would like to hear a step by step explaination of how your suggestions actually work. For example, if someone stole our money, how would government access to bank accounts fit into the picture? Would they recover our stolen money? Or would they hold on to it to prevent it from being stolen? What the hell are you talking about?
Why are you on this website anyways? Shouldn't you be posting on the Democratic Underground or participating in some ELF mischief?
Re: No 19, "FYI, carjackings don't happen all that often. I think I've heard of about 5 in the past 10 years."
Easy to check stats, they happen very often, multiple times per month in fact, and injuries as a result are also quite common in the greater LA County area. And say what you will about cops and high speed chases...they get a ton more training in high speed driving than any of us geeks reading engadget. The fact that they engage in such pursuits daily w/o killing people all the time says plenty. Anything that helps them with that is a-ok by me, especially as it isn't designed to hurt, kill, or be excessively invasive for regular citizens (like oed kill switches or tracking devices for all cares...which has also been contemplated.)
This is entirely sensible, and I applaud the LAPD for taking steps to minimise the damage done in chase situations.
As usual, most of the Engadget commenters seem to enjoy thinking that they're the only people on the planet with brains. Please reserve your snarky comments for ideas that actually are stupid.
Obviously, the LAPD aren't going to tag cars and then just go away. What the GPS tracker allows them to do is to follow from a further distance -- even outside of sight range --, so the perp doesn't feel threatened and start making desperate, rash decisions, like charging the wrong way down the freeway at 100 mph or pulling over and taking hostages if they're armed. It allows the cops to give the perps some room to breathe and relax, then call for backup, set up roadblocks, or what have you to establish an engagement on the *their* terms, rather than chasing after the criminals without a plan and probably destroying property and endangering civilians in the process.
Between this and chopper pursuit, there's not much chance for a perp to ditch a car to avoid the cops. The squad car will probably be just a minute or two behind, and if not there will probably be a chopper airborne to watch for a switch or a ditch.
But we prefer to believe that everyone else in the world is just stupid, don't we?
just like spider-man's spidey tracer!
"I think cars sold in the US should be required to have an engine kill switch installed that can be remotely operated by the police. Obviously, it should be hack-proof."
Oh look there's TomW's mother driving alone on a dark street, thanks to these new kill switches that TomW advocated having installed Mr H*rny Police officer with a thing for unattractive woman can get his fix anytime. And since there is NO such thing as "hack proof" any pervert with an internet connection can buy
one and join in on the fun! Way to go TomW, you opened
your mouth and got your mom gangbanged.
My friend got killed by a cop chasing someone. I see these things from a different perspective.
Oh my, I really love the infinite faith people have in cops in the US. Now please don't get me wrong, I don't hate the PoPo, I know WAY too many cops to hate cops in general. I just know that cops are people to, and like people a lot of them are stupid. Even more of them are macho to dangerous extents. I know of one who takes his gun with him every where, and I mean EVERYWHERE. WTF! not like I can argue with him though (see previous sentences).
So the LAST thing we want to do is remove any more restrictions to their already itchy trigger fingers. I'm all for stopping dangerous criminals. And people that don't pull over to the cops have made a big mistake, but SHOOTING someone rarely solves the problem, because cops are there to uphold the law and NOT to prosecute (remember innocent until proven guilty by a COURT OF LAW).
#8 (KR), if the guy didn't commit such a horrendous crime, and his license really just was expired, then why was he stupid enough to run from the cops anyway?
So here are the guy's options.
#1 pull over, and get a slap on the wrist for driving with expired license.
#2 engage in a high speed chase knowing that running from the cops will make for a real punishment if you even manage to survive.
If you are that stupid to pick #2, then you probably deserve your own fate.
Well...the idea seems a little half-baked to me. I think that grenade launchers would be far more effective! They have a flair for drama in California anyway! A great deterrant as well! What heck is that photo about? Why is the rear hatch open? Now THAT is really stupid!
Hardcore,
Again, your detachment from reality is affecting your ability to understand how the world truly works.
If a remote engine kill switch system was actually put in place, do you think individual police officers would have the ability to unilaterally activate it? Obviously, a tool that powerful would require authorization from an officer's superior (in the form of a code) before it would work.
And this quote of yours makes no sense at all:
"And since there is NO such thing as "hack proof" any pervert with an internet connection can buy
one and join in on the fun!"
What exactly would someone buy over the internet? Any attempt to purchase or sell kill switch related software or devices would invite a quick visit by law enforcement.
Your logic is not developed enough to justify continuing this discussion with you.
"And since there is NO such thing as "hack proof" any pervert with an internet connection can buy
one and join in on the fun!"
If the government mandates it, someone will find a way to abuse it. And I am a not a Leftist, quite the opposite. Hardcore is right about this.
The solution to any problem is to prevent the problem form happening in the first place, not conceding it as inevitable and putting in place solutions to minimize the problem. We don't have a problem with car jacking or hi speed car chases were I live, because if you jack a car in rural Mid America, someone is going to shoot you. If you run from the cops, they won't chase you for miles, they will put your car in a ditch on its roof, right now. Everyone knows this, that is why it does not happen here. We are not so touchy feely in this neck of the woods.
#28 My friend was a cop and he was required to take his gun everywhere.
Tom W - Come on, you don't seem like a stupid person. You know that there is no such thing as hack proof. And the cops have a lot better things to do than monitor web site purchases. You can buy radar jammers, which are illegal. You can buy the devices that make stops lights change, which are illegal. I understand your argument, but such a device would quickly be used by the very bad guys it was meant to stop.
You guys are dumb, what if I just remove the " Kill Switch" and drive me a conventional car. Unworkable.
CR Hamilton where do you live? I am in KC and unfortunatly we are way too touchy feely here. They have almost done away with high speed chases here. If you are a bad guy just punch it, most of the time they can't chase you.
Last I checked, off duty cops are not REQUIRED to carry weapons, but ALLOWED. And when I said everywhere I meant by the pool on vaction out of state. Hmmm.... now lets see totally out of his juristiction and handling in a very unsafe manner, Yeah this sounds like a good idea. Or tell me something why should a cop carry a gun when he's going out drinking with his buddies... recipe for disaster much????
as for this whole kill-switch initiative. How do anyone purpose that this gets implemented on every vehicle on the road. I imagine there are about a billion vehicles in this country. The only way this would work is if EVERYONE was removed and replaced with a machine with this system hardwired in. Then at least it would at least be temporarily hack proof. I'm not saying it's a bad idea... oh wait that's exactly what I'm saying. This is a terrible idea. I mean, why in the world should the police have that kind of access to my vehicle. I'm for anything that protects the life of innocents, and things that make police work safer. However this is so half baked it aint even rising yet.
#20: You said hackproof! On an engadget post! ROTFL!
Sam,
Monitoring website purchases is an automated process that does not require a human until the system produces a result.
Radar jammers and traffic signal control devices are low priority law enforcement issues due to their limited use and lack of any significant events resulting from their use.
The "bad guys" that a kill switch is meant to stop rarely have the IQ required to defeat the system. Odds are they wouldn't even know the system existed.
And regarding the "hack-proof" issue... Complex systems, and/or systems that use the same algorithm repeatedly may be easy to hack, but a simple receiver that requires a unique encrypted 1024 bit code would be extremely difficult to hack. And building it into the engine management computer (sandboxed) would make it difficult to remove.
For #24 and others mistakenly believing suspects slow down after cops back off... this is a misconception. It doesn't always happen. In fact, suspects tend to feel emboldened by their success and they try to put MORE distance between them & the boys in blue. Collisions still happen, and critics STILL blame the police.
This is not an easy topic to win an argument because it deals with the deaths of innocent bystanders some of the time. This is never acceptable. But, be careful assigning blame to the cops in all situations, remember they don't force people to flee.
There is an easy fix: take the lights off all squad cars and if people don't pull over, let them go. All you have to do then is accept the consequences.
The LAPD stopped the broadcast of high-speed chases long ago; I'm pretty disappointed by that, but I suppose it was wrong to turn these criminals into celebrities...it gave people with nothing to live for a chance to get famous on the tube...
"What exactly would someone buy over the internet? Any attempt to purchase or sell kill switch related software or devices would invite a quick visit by law enforcement."
You have WAY too much faith in law enforcement. Do you really think that cops, or the FBI, or whoever, would waste time and resources going after people who sell hacktools online?
Have you ever wondered why online identity theft is such a problem?
loakim:
If you quoted my next sentence, you'd see I said that I'm sure there are more. But that people don't care or worry about carjacking.
From what I could find(a LA times article), there were 118 carjackings in L.A. in 2004. Compare that to 188 cases of "shots into a residence." Or 291 homicides. Or 717 attempted homicides.
In other words your far more likely to have your house shot up than your car jacked. And about 6 times more likely to have someone try to kill you.
There are several million vehicles in L.A. 118 is statistically non-relevent. Something like a 250,000 to 1 chance. It means that your chances of getting carjacked is basically zero.
I'm not saying that it never happens. What I am saying is that unless you live in paranoid fear, its not something people worry about.
And yes, the cops get driving training. And I don't think lapd driving training is something to write home about. Now NJ state police is something else. Anyone that can do a z maneuver at high speed gets serious props from me. btw, that is basically a lane change across concrete highway median dividers using one of the openings.
I think that these sticky tracers are a pretty cool idea. I don't know how useful they'd be though. I'm guessing they would just attach one of them and wait till the car was parked. Because roadblocking, pick maneuvers, etc. can already be done without tracking. And aren't all that safe.
Anyway, I just think that there would be a lot fewer car chases and less risk of injury if they simply banned tv copters from covering them.
#25...You stole my thunder!!! I guess great minds think alike. I believe Batman has a similar device.
Freak
"
Well Hardcore, at least my suggestion had some logic to it. Your examples of why the government should not be given any more power exhibit little more than irrational paranoia and borders on a medical condition.
I would like to hear a step by step explaination of how your suggestions actually work. For example, if someone stole our money, how would government access to bank accounts fit into the picture? Would they recover our stolen money? Or would they hold on to it to prevent it from being stolen? What the hell are you talking about?
Why are you on this website anyways? Shouldn't you be posting on the Democratic Underground or participating in some ELF mischief?"
Sheep.
Running from the police is stupid. PERIOD.
Especially if you are only "guilty" of a revoked license.
Double Stupid...
Anyone who has watched ANY police chase shows should be aware that even when the police "back off", they usually have a helicopter for back up. Or they will have cruisers running on parallel courses/etc... This 'tag' is not a substitute for their current tactics, it is a tool to add to them.