PlayStation 3 hardware is "barely superior to Xbox 360?"
By Ryan Block 
posted February 11th 2006 11:42AM
posted February 11th 2006 11:42AM
At
this point in the game Sony's been so intensely tight-lipped about the goings on of the PlayStation 3 that we're
becoming increasingly skeptical about information that's starting to leak -- not even because we think it's dubious
(which it usually appears to be), but because we are starting to think they're further behind development on the
console than they are actually letting on. Either way, Kikizo claims to have some details and working experiences from
"three PS3 developers in multiple territories" that supposedly got close-to-final hardware from Sony recently
(which does not jibe, sir, with what we heard from that supposed PSM leak that said the
hardware's gone final). According to Kikizo's report -- which we're by no means endorsing -- there's apparently not
enough room for a 2.5-inch drive in the PlayStation 3 mockup box they've been showing off all over the world (the question of the internal drive
certainly does keep getting raised), that the PlayStation 3 is "a machine barely superior to Xbox 360," and
that launch titles will look something akin to "nice Xbox 360 material." No, there's no mention of their Xbox Live killer, either -- so who do
you trust at this point? Is it ok if we just say nobody and leave it at that?[Via Joystiq]
the issue of the hard drive not being able to fit into the PS3, I did wonder how they would be able to fit on in considering the dimensions of the hardware. The way things are working out now for, and all the rumours flying around, for me i am perceiving a negative vibe.
wow! all that talk form sony about 2x better then the 360. haha i knew this would happen. i will look forward to see what the differnce actully is.
I honestly don't believe anyone anymore there's so many rumors running around that its hard to believe what people say, but about the hard drive, why wouldnt they use a smaller one like the kind that the ipod uses?????
The PS3 doesn't need to be superior to the XBox360 to dominate the market; it need only have better games, and that's not difficult if Sony has greater developer support than Microsoft. Insofar as their machines are more similar than dissimilar (multicore, advanced GPU vs different CPU cores and different optical drives), it all boils down to who has better game support.
If nothing else changes, sheer inertia from the previous generation would allow Sony to remain king. Microsoft really needs to start wooing developers, more than anything else, to propel the XBox360, because nothing else will sell the console.
they wouldnt use one like the iPod because for the storage capacity they are much more expensive, the main prics of the iPod is the harddrive, do you want to pay an extra 200-300 dollars for a 60 gig hardrive? or for 100 dollars get one that has twice the capacity, assuming that they dont screw you like the 360. I love the crap out of my 360, but 100$ for a 20 gig?!!??!?! really thats ubsurd, for less you can find a 100 gig hardrive. The seek times arent even super fast, although it is a SATA drive, the producers of it said it wasnt that good.
#4, Brant - Two reasons, the cost of the console would rocket up higher, and the reliability of one of those hard disks probably wouldn't be as good under such heavy load conditions.
Rumours, hype, and counter-hype. Engadget guys, I know you're just doing your job by reporting this, but don't you sometimes feel just a teensy bit responsible? I mean, not you all in particular, but the general technology/gaming press that reports on this stuff. By reporting ever bit of unverified rumour that floats through, you just encourage more people to submit false rumours.
Anyway, the whole thing sounds bogus. The part about "barely superior" is probably going to turn out true, but only because technology hasn't advanced so incredibly much in the couple of months since the 360 was released. But all the other conflicting reports point to one thing only: nobody has even the slightest beginning of a clue.
Well, if they're still revising their console design, even things like "Does it have a hard drive?", maybe they could have a look back at their stupid banana controller. Ditch it and go with Dual Shock 3 or something, for Pete's sake.
4) A smaller drive like the iPod's would work, but I think it would drive the price of the unit up even higher than it's projected to be now.
As far as the PS3 in general goes, I have a sneaking suspicion that the PS3 hasn't a prayer of being released in the U.S. this year. Sony has not shown any actually playable demos running on PS3 hardware yet; is that truly characteristic of a company with a system that's prepared to be released in Japan within a few months?
Then on to the issue of the PS3's power; it will be marginally better than the 360's, at best. Hideo Kojima himself admitted that the MGS4 demo could easily have been done on Xbox 360 hardware. I would not be surprised if the two systems were completely equal; as it stands, I doubt there will be even as large a difference as between the current Xbox and the PS2. What games look better will depend entirely on the skills of the developers.
That said, I suppose it's time for a prediction. The PS3, if it is not released this year, has no chance of defeating the 360. By the end of this year, Microsoft will have Xbox 360s readily available. Even now, the systems aren't selling for much more than retail price on eBay. The PS2's year-long head start was its greatest asset in the last generation; I expect history to repeat itself.
This isn't like the Dreamcast; the Dreamcast failed because Sega did not have the resources to compete with the Sony marketing machine. Microsoft has more than enough resources to pull it off; in addition, they appear to have their house in order as far as 3rd-party titles go.
But I can't deny Sony a chance. It's entirely possible that they'll get the system out a lot sooner than I expect. But timing's everything, especially in the video game market. So any efforts to predict the future are nearly as unreliable as efforts to predict the next president.
I declare these, the 2006 next gen console flame wars, commenced!!!
LIGHT EM UP!
WHO CARES?! JUST BRING IT.
You guys are idiots, the HDMI connector alone makes it worth 100X more than the Xbox, oh, and did we forget about BRD? So Sony might release their new system a year later than the Xbox 360 (which doesn't even come standard with component cables, let alone not being able to challenge a play in Madden), but it will be a superior box (period.). How long will it take Gates to tell his goons to actually give people their money's worth? The PS2 was worth every penny, the Xbox was worth every penny (after the first markdown), but everyone knows that the Xbox 360 is not worth the money that you are paying for it, plus, when are there going to be more in stock, i haven't seen one on sale in a couple of months. So myabe the PS3 will actually make it out the door by the time the Xbox 360 is available and some of the severe (my house is on fire because i am running a powersupply as big as a 1960s fallout shelter generator) problems are resolved.
Idiots.
No, the ipod's disk is not reliable as larger disks.
Of course, this was inevitable. How can we belive tech specs from sony if we have yet to see any real gameplay.... Hah, 2x as powerful, my foot....
PS3 will be the true next gen console...jus wait and see...all these rumors are probably spreaded by Xbox people who want to convey ppl to stop waiting for the PS3 and buy the xbox360 now.
If the new "CELL" CPU was going to be so great why did Apple leave this PowerPC developed platform for Intel?
I think the problem is "cost". To make the unit powerful enough to get anywhere near the "hype" the cost goes up. So we could get a semi-crippled CPU in the PS3 for cost reasons! This issue is probably why the launch moves later and later as IBM and Sony struggle to get the good cpu manufactured as inexpensively as possible, so they can afford to put it in the PS3.
I think the "issue" around a HD is merely a distraction. Who really cares whether it's internal or external? It would be such a cheap add on.
Why don't we just wait and see what it's going to be like, instead of listening to these rumors? They will probably be wrong anyways, and all we're doing here is having fanboy battles. Don't believe anything until you see it in person...
#13 - Microsoft can easily add a HDMI connection through its multimedia out (where the HDTV cable currently connects too). In terms of not coming with component cables and not getting your monies worth, Microsoft is already losing a lot of money on each console, everyone is definately getting more then their monies worth! And PS3 will obviously cost a lot more. With Madden, that has nothing to do with Microsoft, EA rushed all their initital games this year. And Xbox 360's are finally starting to be available in stores, PS3 will probbaly go through the same launch problems.
The one thing I do agree with is that the blu-ray drive is definately a plus for PS3, but the future of gaming is downloading games online, and XBox Live is incredible. So once bigger hard drives are available, having any sort of optical drive could become obsolote (you can already download 1.5gig demos from Xbox Live, a few more gigs worth and you have an entire game).
I was planning on buying both Xbox 360 and PS3, but after buying Xbox 360, it is so good, I don't see PS3 offering anything that is that much better, and I don't see anyone competing with Xbox Live, it has been in use for what 5 years now? That is a long time in making it the incredible online system it is and building up the millions of people that use it.
It's most likely a rumor, but the key word is "superior." Fact or fiction, the PS3 is better, and that's what we all expected.
13) Funny, my 360 came with component cables. If you're buying the core system, you probably don't even have a component input on your TV.
Microsoft should have an HDMI cable out by the time the PS3 comes out.
rumors rumors rumors...
it's fun to specumalate (thx homer!) and all, but shouldn't we wait until it's released before we're disappointed? that's what i'm gonna do.
http://www.pricewatch.com/prc.aspx?i=101&a=439532
Hmmmm...looks like an 80GB 2.5" drive would run you about $100...and that is 5400RPM model...
I'm not much or a video game player but I do very much appreciate the technology behind it. As a consultant to the industry I often have an opportunity to gain interesting insight and perspective directly from insiders. For whatever it is worth I have been privy to numerous anecdotes involving influential members of the PS3 product management and development team laughing out-loud after playing the 360.
If Microsoft was bringing out a hdmi cable it would of been out by now, and what would be the benefit anyway the video output is gonna look the same as the quality of the component cables plus I don't want to hear the audio coming thru my hdmi compatible hdtv because I run the audio with the optical out to my reciever. Also I agree with Gabe, Im a Sony fan though I like all games I bought a 360 and I don't think I got my money's worth to tell the truth I havent even played it in a while its just collecting dust. I thank alot of you microsoft lovers are in denial and are going to be surprised by what it can do when it is released, Cuz I know when it drops my 360 will prolly never be played anymore cuz all the 3rd party titles im gonna get for the ps3, I only bought the 360 now to get a bite of that future next gen but I got the same thing I already had with some finger nail polish on it.
And the Sony fanboys come out swinging again. There may be a lot of rumors but when you have people like John Carmack also telling you similar information I tend to lean towards it being true.
In the end its the games right? I'll enjoy my 360 (I am loving it) and I'll probably buy a PS3 as well when the time comes. There is no reason to have a fanboy mentallity. Just buy the systems and play the games. There will be great games for both you can't get anywhere else.
"there's apparently not enough room for a 2.5-inch drive in the PlayStation 3 mockup box "
Has anyone here (or has this guy) actually seen a 2.5" drive? You could practically fit one in a Nintendo DS, let alone a PS3. The hard drive attachment on the Xbox 360 is about 20 times the volume of the actual drive inside it, so don't base what you know on that. You can see the actual size of a 2.5" drive here: http://www.thatstrife.com/carproject/images/3_10_2004_LARGE5.jpg
If this guy's saying they can't fit a 2.5" drive inside the PS3 case, he's an idiot. I don't care how much other hardware is in there; there is no way Sony has designed this system with 100% efficiency right off the bat to the point where every single square inch of available space is being used and nothing can be moved. My guess is even as it is, there is a lot of empty air in there - especially in "the bulge", where a 2.5" drive could easily fit above or next to the Blu-Ray drive.
That one statement pretty much ruins the credibility of this entire report for me. I just don't buy any of it after that.
Everybody needs to just hurry up and wait. All these "inside sources" say this...is much to do about nothing. I am not reading another thing about the PS3 until it comes from Sony itself.
Personally I am quite happy to see this post on engadget where they admit that they dont know what is going on, now, if only they would do that with some other products *cough*Ipod Video 2.0*cough*Treo*cough* hehe.... not ripping, I enjoy reading the comments on those pages it gives me a laugh
Here is the real deal folks. The PS3 is Sony's last hope and it's not about video games at all. It's about the real war for the living room: movies and tv. Microsoft wants in, Apple wants in, and Sony wants in.
The PS3 is the trojan horse meant to invade the living rooms of the world with blu-ray and hdmi. Why? Profit of course. Profit margins on DVD's are too low. Blu-ray DVD's are going to come out costing in the $30 range. Sony and others are going to be selling them wholesale at $24 a pop. That's more at wholesale than you buy DVD's at now(that's a lot of profit for Sony).
Will they be better than standard DVDs? Maybe. If you have a HDMI enabled tv. Otherwise you only get half the resolution for output. No 720p, no 1080i. Thus, if you don't have HDMI then your High-def DVD's are basically just normal DVD's. So, all of you who have high def tv's without HDMI, are going to get screwed. Sorry.
Now, back to the PS3... is it worth it to spend $500-700 on a machinie that isn't any better at games than the Xbox 360? If you have a HDMI enabled hdtv, then maybe. If not, don't believe the hype. The PS3 won't have all of the games at 1080p. They will run at 720p or 1080i, just like the 360. Blu-ray won't be in HD unless you have HDMI. The whole thing is just Sony's latest attempt to make money off their own formats. They did this with the PSP's UMD, the Walkman's MiniDisc, and blu-ray is next. The PS3 should come with a free lolipop for all the suckers who buy it for blu-ray.
Trust no one, especially Sony! ;-)
My inanimate hunk of plastic and silicon is far superior to your inanimate hunk of plastic and silicon!!!!!
you sir ar an idiot: if you've read anything of any use you would find that there will be no noticable differences between the two hardwares. Go back to fanboy land
Guys, guys. There are no fanboys. It's a battle of marketing shills in here. ;P
"I bought a 360 and I don't think I got my money's worth"
How much would it cost you to buy a PC that could run Oblivion at it's max settings?
Think about that and then try to tell us that you "didn't get your money's worth". The Xbox 360 is very good value for money, in terms of hardware. Moreso than probably any other piece of eletronics you could buy because MS are making a loss when they sell it to you.
Whether or not you like the games is up to personal preference and taste. There are plently of great games out right now, and many more on the horizon.
I remember the PS2 launch and it's first year "games" (I use the term loosely) and the Xbox 360 situation is much perferable.
Quote "Well, if they're still revising their console design, even things like "Does it have a hard drive?", maybe they could have a look back at their stupid banana controller. Ditch it and go with Dual Shock 3 or something, for Pete's sake."
Ok, Sony have been sued (I Think 20,000,000) over the Dual Shock, they went and used technology that already had a patent, Microsoft were sued (i Think 3,000,000), all this over vibration technology. So they have to come up with a new controller.
[let logic prevail]
whenever it is released (PS3), being delivered to the gamer much later than Xbox360 one should let logic prevail and assume it will be superior.
[moneyMovements]
Maybe sony intially had the intention of having an all powerfull machine to combat Xbox360, but they probably overestimated xbox360 specs and created a more powerfull machine than needed. now with fear of rising cost and crap xbox360 specs, sony designers are revamping the system to pip the xbox360 by a small amount to keep the cost down.
you only need to be marginally better than your competitor, then you dont have to give additional stuff. eg. Blu-Ray, HardDrive
"Has anyone here (or has this guy) actually seen a 2.5" drive? You could practically fit one in a Nintendo DS, let alone a PS3. The hard drive attachment on the Xbox 360 is about 20 times the volume of the actual drive inside it, so don't base what you know on that. You can see the actual size of a 2.5" drive here: http://www.thatstrife.com/carproject/images/3_10_2004_LARGE5.jpg"
Haha, do you REALLY think that SOny will simply put that hard drive in there without somekind of casing......how would that look if "normal" consumers would want to buy another hard drive that'll look like this:
http://pr.fujitsu.com/photo/0401/5a_l.jpg
C'mon man!! THINK for god's sake...........ofcourse there'll be some kind of casing that'll make it bigger that the actual hard drive.....
YOU are funny!!!
I'm probably going to have to go with 'neither' as well.
It's funny to read the differences in how Joystiq and Engadget reported on this article. Engadget = big NEGATIVE slant, while Joystiq takes the more positive route.
I haven't read the article, so I can't comment yet on the overall opine of the original author with regards to the true slant.
I think the bottom line is this: The Cell processor is a bold "new" approach to processing. Unfortunately, the cell concept has failed miserably in the past, and a lot of the time it has nothing to do with which technology has "superior hardware capabilities". The reality is that Sony is hoping that Blu-Ray drives and cell processors will carry it's PS3 into the tech forefront - a questionable strategy. They execute so poorly as a software company, a lot of devs are left out to dry with trying to make stuff work on the exotic hardware ("...Sony will have to make available to [devs] libraries and new routines... something they've been severely lacking at so far.". Sure, if enough people buy PS3s, most devs will force themselves to learn and create new dev PS3 platforms - but that means that it will take even longer until we see games take full advantage of the hardware (2 years +). I want PS3 to do well, but man, there is no way I agree with Dan Choi over at Joystiq in saying "These are exciting times for Sony fans"...I would say at the most, "these are uncomfortable times for Sony fans". I have been reading all sorts of news glibs over the past week that have been slamming the console, or were fluff/hype pieces that seemed so far fetch as to be ridiculous.
Man...once again, so many fanboy comments @ engadget with little to NOTHING in support of their opinions except blind allegiance. HDMI makes the the PS3 ONE HUNDRED TIMES more valuable than Xbox360? What on earth? It's a freaking cable! You either have an analog signal or a digital one. Digital > Analog no doubt, but 100X better? - no way. MS already said they will eventually release a digital cable in the future, so this is not a PS3 advantage in any way.
Is the Blu-Ray drive an advantage? I don't think so. Most people that I know think that DVD = HD in terms of quality! As many have already noted, the leap from DVD to BR/HD DVD is not as significant as VHS to DVD - the increased resolution is not enough to warrant people switching over their entire DVD collection for HD versions - especially at a higher cost. Second, watching BD disks is going to require a DRM controlled HD cable AND a set that supports it. I'm way "ahead of the Joneses" in my HT setup, but I won't be able to take advantage of BR movies, and I'm not upgrading my TV to take advantage. It really is an on-demand world, and I would much rather have an ability to download HD movies for a smaller fee than buy another format disk that I have to store on my shelves when not in use.
SONY will always be PHONY.i mean common you've seen previews that are coming out on following months......you don't, your smoking crack boy.
I'm straining myself, just to have patience for the games, it'll be two years before they come up with enough games so I'm totally "lovin it" with the PS3.
New technology, arcane processors from Sony, it took years for companies to really exploit the PS2 to make games that were freakishly realistic: MGS3 and Zone of the Enders 2 for example.
If the Cell has strong performance for specialized calculations, then it's going to take some time before the middleware people (unreal engine, renderman) to correctly optimize their engine to depend upon its multiprocessing capabilities.
Don't forget the xbox 360 has multiple cpu's too (also PPC based), so the console game software industry's overall is going to be researching multiprocessing optimizations a lot ... both platforms will kick ass, but Sony's Cell processor has the long-term lead. Once middleware can utilize the seven SPU (mini cpu's in the Cell) it should be a small leap to support more than seven. Say, the PS4, etc, might have multiple Cells.
Imagine programming for 24 SPU's. Nobody has a brain that big. I've gotta have patience for game middleware technology to catch up to the multiprocessing model, I'll see the Cell / xbox 360 utilized to their fullest extent.
To the bloke who thinks HDMI is the only way to get hi-def content on an HDTV:
HDMI is not even twice as good as component cables, let alone 100x. HDMI gives about the same picture quality as component, but is an uncompressed digital format and includes audio (which I actually don't want due to my audio setup- toslink output is easier). A friend of mine has his 360 hooked up to a Sony SXRD 60" HDTV and it upscales to 1080p (nice TV BTW, and 1080p upscaling looks good). You know what connection he uses? Component. HDMI is a cable, not a new technology. If offers a slight benefit over component cables as far as picture goes, but it sure the heck doesn't make 100x the difference nor enable your HDTV to suddenly unlock its potential. If you compare 15 pin d-sub PC cables to DVI cables you'll get the idea. CRT monitors use the d-sub, LCD monitors use the DVI. which looks better? Ironically usually the CRT using the analog cable (though this has nothing to do with the actual cable's properties, but ironic nonetheless). Furthermore, as others have said, MS said long ago that other cables will be forthcoming for the 360, but right now they are more worried about meeting demand for the console itself before they start in on all the periphrials (cables, web cams, faceplates etc).
Facts:
* Next to nobody here is close enough to Sony to know one single fact about the PS3, other than what has been released so far. I'm willing to bet that actually nobody hear does. Thus, nobody here knows enough to say anything about the PS3 will or won't be with any certainty.
* Nobody here knows enough to accurately predict when the system will be released. "Facts" like "they haven't shown off any demos yet!" mean nothing.
* There is no reason to believe anything that is said about the PS3 by anybody at this point except for Sony, which will no doubt be filled with hype, or people actually directly working with or on the PS3.
* Launch games for any system mean NOTHING in regard to how powerful the system is. If you think so, then you have never owned a video game system.
* The Xbox 360, PS3, and Revolution will all have great games on them that the people who own the systems will enjoy.
In other words, anybody here spouting "facts" for or against the PS3 are full of crap, because nobody here, including me, knows s**t at this point. And when it comes out, it will be just as worthwhile to own as the 360 and the Revolution will be.
All i can say is look everyone, you keep saying that the ps3 will be better...blah blah...Who cares? I am playing my 360 RIGHT NOW, and you are waiting and waiting playing your last gen ps2 wishing the ps3 would come out already. You know it wont be that good, so go out and get a 360 now and play it instead of waiting for something that wont come out for a long long time.
nizzy1115.tripod.com/blog/
The Ps3 isn't so hot. A friend of mine is beta testing what they currentyl have. No Hard Drive what so ever, and guess what? Since he doesn't have a hi-def TV it looks exactly like the Xbox 360 does. I have a 360. Not only can I watch videos from my pc, listen to music, surf the web, play online with friends, and play AWESOME games, but it was 400 dollars on the money, while the PS3's current projection is going to be between 400-500. They say they can't go above 500 cuz then no one will buy it, which is why it doesn't have a HDD. Believe me, there is ALWAYS enough room for a hard drive.
The xbox 360 hard drive costs that much because of the junk that comes on it. There is ALOT of stuff on it. Plus with the premium system you get the HDD for 50.
Every xbox 360 costs MS about 750 dollars to manufactor and sell. they sell for 400. hmmmm... not getting our money's worth eh?
comparing to comps: The Xbox is MADE for gaming. for 400 dollars you can't even buy a video card capable of producing the quality of the xbox. Halo, for instance, slows even the best computers down due to the 3d imaging mixed in with the invisibility issues of the covenant. The xbox doesn't slow down at all. Could this POSSIBLY be because it's MADE for games, with computer function extra, while computers are MADE as computers, with games extra? hmmmm...
I'll gladly wait another 6 months for PS3 since it will have;
1. BluRay Disc.
2. HDMI video.
I mean, really, come on, it's not like there are even any decent games out for X360 yet.
'nuff said.
It does exist. My friend's brother works at a studio where they're assigned to make a few games for the PS3, he does graphics/animation/modelling. He had the opportunity to try it out. They received the dev-kits recently.
What most of the people posting on this topic fail to realize. Is that we are coming to a point where hardware differences are going to barely have any effect. It will come down to what it has in the last generation. It is all about the GAMES. Even if the PS2 came out not as early as it did, it would still have the right game portfolio. The games are what made the PS2 the dominator in the last generation. I have both consoles and when a new game comes out, I decide on the controller aspect, what bonus features I get between the two, if playing online what system will my friends get it on and usually that is the PS2. When it comes to exclusive content, I usually find that on the PS2 at least 3-1 over the Xbox. So I have at least 4x more games on PS2 and I play it daily; yet I got an Xbox for a few exclusive titles, it gets played maybe once a month. Not only that, but MS is no longer putting effort into the Xbox platform, so no first party games, they are straight 360 from now on. Of course there are 3rd party, but as much as games cost to develop, especially a per game cost on Xbox. Developers are going to still make games for PS2, because of its market saturation and how much cheaper it is to make a game for PS2 (on average).
My point is, the investment I made in the PS2 was more rewarding, especially in the long term. Compared to how my Xbox investment was just a short term, with hardly as much future support as the PS2.
"""16. If the new "CELL" CPU was going to be so great why did Apple leave this PowerPC developed platform for Intel?"""
well apple left ibm because ibm could not make a G% powerbook there for, apple moved on.
i wondered how many xbox fanboy would take advantage on this ... there are so many rumors about ps3 first its one thing then its another i belive some of these editors are trying to steer people away from buying a ps3 or just make us go insane with the rumors.
Am getting pissed at the way Sony are going. They wont comfirm anything about the PS3, its all dam hype. I have been a soild Sony fan for years, I just bought my 1st Xbox, the 360 and am happy with its perforamnce.
If the PS3 is the same, then i aint shelling out $400 for a different coloured box.
I just think that the psp is showing that if you include tons of media features in your hardware, people will buy less games. And if the games are where you make all your money at, and people are buying less, it's a loosing proposition. While I would love a ps3 with a tivo, blu-ray, media center, online gaming, etc, Sony is either going to have to price it really high and it won't sell well, or take the loss and sell it cheaper. But they will sell less games and take a big hit. I think the ps3 will be very gaming orientated, with lots of add-on options.