ATI and NVIDIA's "HDCP support" video cards don't support HDCP?

The FiringSquad has some disconcerting news for those of us hoping to wrangle our current desktops into Vista-ready, HD playback machines. Apparently all of those graphics cards we've been snapping up with "HDCP support" emblazoned on the box aren't quite what they claim to be. Instead of doing something logical, like, uh, supporting HDCP, turns out only the GPUs support HDCP, while the actual boards don't include the required hardware key to make the hi-def magic happen. NVIDIA isn't as much to blame, since they have published specs for HDCP compatible boards, and are holding up their end on the GPU front, but ATI doesn't look so good here due to the fact that they're currently cramming their own HDCP capable GPUs into boards that don't support the spec. If all this is to be believed, the only currently existing fully HDCP capable boards are a couple of GeForce 6200 and 6600 cards residing in Sony Media Center PCs, and the rest of us will have to wait for word on high to build boxes fully compatible with the Vista OS due next year. Let the lynch mob begin!

[Sean @ Feb 13th 2006 11:23AM]

I say great! I have zero plans to ever give even 1 cent to anything that has to do with HDCP.

[Alcaron @ Feb 13th 2006 11:45AM]

lol I agree with #1.

And for the record, all you people are RETARDED.

Seriously...in one breath you scream about how bad HDCP and DRM in general is for us, and how crappy Vista is for forcing this HDCP crap on us, and in the next breath you are clamoring for anything and everything you can find to make it work.

Hahaha, here is a CRAZY idea. If content providers put unreasonable stipulations on your use of media, or ones you just don't like, why don't you just not buy that content????

Is the latest downloadable HD episode of My Name Is Earl really worth it to sacrifice your control and rights?

I say bring on the DRM. That way all you dumb little wallet monkeys will shell out gobs of cash, and the rest of us will say "sorry, but one more episode of mindless television isn't worth it to me".

You only hurt yourselves.

[Ben @ Feb 13th 2006 12:09PM]

To #2:

HDCP isn't just about watching crappy shows. lf you didn't notice...you can't play Blu-Ray / HD-DVD movies in HD without a HDCP compliant television/monitor. You can still watch the movie on a non-HDCP television but l believe the resolution is capped at 480p.

[sparr @ May 28th 2007 12:18AM]

can't play HD DVD in HD without HDCP? I guess you're stuck in one of those crappy OSes that start with "win" :)

[David @ Feb 13th 2006 12:29PM]

So when they start making HD games on the pc and all the l337 hardcore gamerz out there cant play them on the $500 video card they bought... it's not gonna be pretty.

But dont hate on hdtv, just because you dont/cant spend a few hundred dollars to get things in hi def doesnt mean hdcp is the antichrist. I for one would at least want to watch the next spiderman 3/(insert big name motion picture here) in fullblown hi definition without having to go through the trouble of replacing a card that was SUPPOSEDLY alrdy hdcp compatible.

[DukeTogo @ Feb 13th 2006 12:36PM]

Uhmmm just because a game is capable of playing at "HD resolutions" doesn't mean it'll require HDCP.

HDCP is copy protection... why would games need HDCP?
Only protected content like TV/Movies will...

[Aaron @ Feb 13th 2006 12:42PM]

"why would games need HDCP?"

Boy will those words come back to haunt you.

[nezromatron @ Feb 13th 2006 12:43PM]

Meh.. HDCP will be cracked within a day or week anyway. Copy protection only affects law-abiding consumers.

[David @ Feb 13th 2006 12:43PM]

I was under the impression that all media capable of hidef had to go through an hdcp connection (?) If not then my mistake, but I stick by my movie thing.

[Jake @ Feb 13th 2006 12:50PM]

Hi Def is just a resolution. PC games can already be set to higher resolutions. Movies, however, are different.

[Jason @ Feb 13th 2006 1:00PM]

David you are correct. The industry wants all HD content to be HDCP. As a matter of fact that is already implemented in the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray specs. You can only get 480i or 480p from any analog connection on an HD DVD player. You must use HDMI or DVI w/ HDCP to display the HD content. And once UDI hits the PC world....

[Revrant @ Feb 13th 2006 1:02PM]

I really, truly, don't give a damn.

[tekdroid @ Feb 13th 2006 1:19PM]

Sean and Alcaron seem to have a clue. I concur.

[StreetStealth @ Feb 13th 2006 1:39PM]

I hope the consumer backlash for this is so huge that the real culprits, the disturbingly paranoid MPAA, will have to back down on their industry coercion.

This should happen about the same time I get hot and cold running chocolate to my kitchen sink.

[duerra @ Feb 13th 2006 3:13PM]

The sad thing is that consumers AREN'T going to and really CAN'T turn down HDCP.

In the past, with electronics, there was always a rogue player that didn't play by the rules (Sony), and released electronics hardware that caused content providers to throw an absolute fit. But there was nothing the industry could do to really stop them from creating the hardware that allowed you to copy CD's, for example. DVD encryption was a joke, and the industry learned their lesson from that real quick.

We live in a day now where the content providers are demanding protection to every single element that is involved in the display of the content (from the cable signal all the way to your monitor). Once modern cryptography is applied to every element of the content path, there's no way around it.

It's the same technology that keeps you protected when you order something with your credit card online - except that it's being used across all of the components of your computer's hardware instead of over the internet. And if your hardware doesn't play by the rules, it doesn't get signed. If it doesn't get signed, it won't get access to handle the content. Those are the rules.

Sorry nezromatron, but you're sadly mistaken. Once every component in the hardware is protected, there is very little, if anything, that can be done to work around it. We don't live in the era of open hardware anymore.

And for all of you out there who say "well just don't buy it, then", that's not the answer here, either. Consumers aren't going to be given a choice. Every big industry player has already committed to this, and you're not going to change their minds. DVDs are the perfect example - all the geeks at the time screamed and shouted about CSS, but DVDs still became popular, even before the encryption was broken. If a product doesn't sell, it's the fault of the product, not because it used HDCP, or so they'll say. And for that matter, consumers aren't going to reject HDCP because most consumers won't have a clue of its existence. Support will quietly be added to all of the hardware you buy over the next few years. Sure, you could just stop purchasing hardware, but that isn't going to stop everybody else, is it?

Welcome to the new era. What's the answer? I don't know. Hopefully somebody thinking about the consumers comes up with something, though.

[Ken @ Feb 13th 2006 3:56PM]

First of all, any type of DRM or copy protection can and will be circumvented in due time. The best thing they can hope for is the chance that the cost of duplicating their content is higher than the cost of buying it in the first place.

But that's not really the point to this article. The video card manufacturers (ahem, ATI?) are using terminology that would imply their hardware can process and display HDCP content when it cannot. Consumers should not stand for this as it will only encourage this behavior. Unfortunately, it happens all the time, and most of us don't have the patience to keep complaining and boycotting products all the time.

[Brett @ Feb 13th 2006 5:32PM]

*Sigh*

Here we go, slowly handing over control of our computers into the hands of a few.

- 10 years from now, HDCP will be in every device.
- 10 years from now, producing non-HDCP devices will be illegal (the only people who don't want HDCP are pirates. Right?)
- 10 years from now, your computer won't do what you tell it to, until it contacts Microsoft and gets permission first.
- 10 years from now, your computer will inform Microsoft of any "questionable" activities you've been doing.
- 10 years from now, your activities will also be forwarded to the MPAA, RIAA, BSA, NSA, or other appropriate agency.
- 10 years from now, DRM will be the law.
- 10 years from now, privacy will be a thing of the past.
- 10 years from now, we will all look back and wonder how we could have said we "didn't care."

[thomas_h @ Feb 13th 2006 8:35PM]

stupid, thats like saying a new tv is HD with 1080p support, except that its only the chip inside that supports 1080p, the actual panel is 480i.

silly card manufacturers..

[AN @ Feb 13th 2006 10:44PM]

duerra,

I'm not so sure this ship has sailed yet. If you think many consumers are going to simply throw away all their pricey existing HDTVs or buy expensive new HD players that they can only get 480p signals out of, you're crazy. There's an enormous chicken and egg problem here for manufacturers.

There's an excellent chance that either consumers will stick to the old DVD formats -- causing the new disc platforms to fail as hard as anything since the old Divx DVD format -- or the CE industry will have to quickly backtrack and provide compatibility boxes with analog out for existing TVs, rendering the protection worthless.

[Adam @ Feb 13th 2006 11:22PM]

You know what I'm gonna do? Go out and buy a nice new HDTV with HDMi and HDCP and anything else the MPAA tells me I need. I'll hook it up to my brand new Blu-Ray player over HDMI...and then set up my HD camcorder to record the movies and redistribute them in High Definition Divx over Bit-Torrent.

If I don't do it, someone will and then people will still have their pirated movies and the world will be safe again.

[fiendo @ Feb 14th 2006 12:37AM]

I find it curious that almost every comment against this turn of events cries out for consumers to act. Have we ceased to be able to think of ourselves as anything but "consumers"?

Here's a thought--perhaps we should try acting as citizens rather than mere consumers and we may have a better chance of protecting our rights.

[Jason @ Feb 14th 2006 2:35AM]

duerra and Brett, well said. For all of you who roll your eyes and expect to get a solution from those enigmatic hackers whom you know nothing about: get real. That attitude is blind, naive, and overly optimistic. We've been spoiled by the industry's underestimation of hackers. HDCP (and every other new DRM scheme that's emerging) is part of a completely new era. CSS was lame and it's secrets were poorly guarded... also, all you needed was one universal decryption key and... voila! Every DVD is automatically cracked! However, even then it's decryption was an accident!
HDCP = 128 bit encryption (uncrackable by any modern computer in existance... when we invent quantum computers, then MAYBE), also if you were to magically get the encryption key it would only give you a less than a megabyte of data, this is dynamic and changes for every disc. This is military grade cryptography, people. If China's army of slave security experts can't dent it, a loosely organized group of hackers doesn't stand a chance.

[asdf @ Feb 15th 2006 6:49AM]

every drm gets cracked? well what about wmv drm? i heard once that the japanese had actually broken it and posted tools but microsoft took quickly care of that. so this shit's been around for quite a while and still standing. are people affraid to touch it or is it really that tough?

[Trent @ Feb 22nd 2006 2:33PM]

I have to concur here. I am an owner of a Leadtek Winfast 7800 GTX Extreme and I am very pissed off that this card IS NOT truly Vista ready (I think the box actually says Longhorn ready) but you get my point.

Yes yes, I know it CAN work with Vista, I running a damn beta of it right now actually. But the fact that protected HD content can not be displayed because the vendor did not add the HDCP hardware to the PCB is unacceptable.

Leadtek will be lucky to get me to upgrade to SLI and Microsoft, well the only copy of Vista I plan to run is the one given to me by my company. But I will not shell out my hard earned $$$ unitl the DRM HDCP fiasco goes away.

[Cody @ Oct 20th 2006 3:37AM]

All these comments have pretty much disregarded the fact anyone who has bought a card that is supposedly HDCP has been ripped off. If you bought a Mustang GT that is supposed to be a V8 only to find out later it was a 6cyl would not demand that this be fixed? No...you'll spend $1000 on two video cards only to complain, sell them used for a loss, and finally buy a card that really is HDCP(if that ever happens).