We
can forgive
TiVo CEO Tom Rogers for acting like the concept of
offering a tier of service in which the company gives away its boxes to customers who pay a slightly higher monthly fee
is a new idea. After all, he hasn't been CEO that long. So, when Rogers announced recently that the company would start
a test of a no-upfront-fee plan "fairly soon," he couldn't possibly have known that the company actually did
start offering such a plan back in November of last year, and that links from the plan's web page still function,
allowing customers to sign up for TiVo for $16.95 per month with no money down. Wait a minute. You say Rogers became
CEO last July, and, therefore, was already with the company when the free deal was announced last November? Hmm. Maybe
he was just out that day. Either that or he just hit the wrong button and skipped over it.
[Thanks to
everyone who sent this in]
posted Feb 27th 2006 1:48PM
Comcast charges $10/month for the HD DVR I have and I didn't have to pay any money up front for it either. Tivo is a ripoff nowadays. I know a lot of people will say Tivo is "better", but the DVR I have does everything I need it to do, and does it quite well, in my opinion.
I agree with Mattso, my HD DVR from adelphia is like 11 a month, where as a tivo DVR would be a couple hundred up front, plus money. If I wanna see something I set to record, I don't need my DVR deciding what kind of show I like and making suggestions. Tivo should just start charging for their hardware only.
Actually - they were test marketing the demand.
The early test did quite well and so they decided to proceed.
I think you'll find some pretty cool stuff coming from TIVO before the end of the year.... at least enough to populate your blog and in turn stuff your coffers with more ad revenue.
I loved my Tivo, and it was much easier of an interface than the Comcast DVR's IMHO. But before I would dive back into a Tivo, I'm going to wait for the Comcast/Tivo deal to pan out. Then I get a DVR/Tivo that can record HiDef with the wonderful Tivo interface from Comcast, so if it breaks, I'm out no money.
I thought it interesting that I went to BestBuy.com this morning and they were all sold out of the Series 2. What's up? Series 3? Best Buy not selling TIVO anymore?
Actually with Comcast if you have the HD plan then a DVR is only $5 a month. It records HD
The money isn't in the hardware. Before it's too late (while they still have a good reputation), they need to switch to a bring your own hardware model. $69 annual subscription to download the software onto your media center PC or cable box.
Nobody wants to add another machine to their living room that does only one thing - Tivo, DVD player, Cable Box?
Tivo could be a really efficient and PROFITABLE service-oriented company by focusing on just the software.
Maybe Apple could save them.
I think it's a great idea, one that they have experimented with not too long ago. IIRC in their experiment the pricing worked out to juct about the same price as buying a TiVo and paying for one year (or was it 18 months?) of service.
Though many people HATE rebates, and I've heard reports that unfulfilled rebates amount to a significan amount for TiVo which probably drives up revenue more for a purchased TiVo (compared to a subscription supported) knowing that not all the rebates will be fulfilled.
If TiVo charges too much for a monthly fee for the subscription service (probably much over $15/mo) they won't get as much adoption, charge too little and they could cannibalize sales of the purchased TiVos.
One thing they need to do is make sure it's eay to turn the subscriber customers into regular customers. You can get someone to pay $15 per month for the first year or two but not for a long time. Maybve give the subscription customers the opportunity to buy a (slightly) discounted lifetime service, or switch to standard monthly service at the end of the subscription contract.
They will also need to offer the monthly service discount for second and subsequent TiVos for people who initially opted for the subscription service for their first TiVo, this is something that the previous experiment did not do.
miball: WHAT! I have comcast, and have the HD package and the 6412 DVR, and have been charged $10 a month since I got it in Nov. of 2004!
Those bastards are always trying to rip me off. I already pay $126 a month with ZERO premium channels, just Digital w/ HD, broadband and DVR service.
And the sick part is that I like my service so much, and enjoy the 6412 DVR so greatly, that they could charge me another $5 a month, and I'd still pay it.
I have both the Comcast HD DVR and the TiVo and the TiVo is hands down the better DVR and worth the money, especially since it's so easy to get content off of it and onto my computer. The only reason I keep the Comcast DVR is because it records HD, but the majority of TV is recorded on my TiVo.
#7 (Jacob)
The BYOH (bring your own hardware) idea sounds great but I don't think it's practical. a MCE PC as the hardaware platform won't work as most people aren't going to put a standard PC type device in their living room in their entertainment center.
Most set top boxes are restricted by the operators (cable or satellite customers) who don't want other software running on them.
What you would need is for someone else to start selling TiVo-compatible DVR hardware that you could marry to your TiVo subscription, as it is TiVo has already licensed their technology to several other companies and I'm sure they wouldn't be opposed to doing more.
Personally, I'd love the opportunity to buy a "souped up" TiVo, not just with a bigger/faster hard drive, but one with a faster processor, more memory, built in Ethernet and maybe even a hardware MPEG4 CODEC.
I have 3 series 2 TiVos and a Motorola 6412. Those that say their 6412 is just as good as TiVo are the same people that think their Dodge Neon is just as good as a Porsche Carrera. They are not the same thing. Not even close. TiVo is about usability and extensibility.
I can transfer Will and Grace into the bedroom for the wife to watch or I can transfer a 2 hour documentary to any one of my computers for long term storage or transfer to my iPod, then I can move it back to any of my TiVos to watch at my leisure.
I am one HD/Cablecard/dualtuner enabled TiVo away from couch potato bliss.
I got in on this the first time they did it and think it's great for someone like me. The apartment complex I live in wont let me have a dish and cable is way to much for me (especially when I can get everything i want through a torrent the next day after it's aired). So I have this running with rabbit ears and it only cost me $17 a month. The instant saving is what sold me on it too, no rebates and waiting 6+ months to maybe get them.
Just a question somewhat related to the article: why is it that vcr's can record on one channel while viewing another, yet dvr's require dual tuners to get the same thing done?
Rob, your VCR can't do it either. To get 1 descrambled cable signal into your VCR and another descrambled cable signal into your TV you'd also need 2 cable boxes. Sure you can do it on the clear basic channels, but you still need two tuners (vcr and tv both have tuners), so if it were one box, it'd have to have dual tuners anyway.
Rob... a VCR can't by itself. You need the tuner in the VCR and the tuner in the TV to watch one channel and record another. Same with the DVR. Difference is that a DVR can watch a RECORDED show while recording another.
i used to have a cox dvr, it served the purpose well.
i just moved to a new complex and the only decent solution for TV was Directv. From what ive read/heard, theyre dvr (now non-tivo) has a very bad rep. Plus it was $99 and then monthly fee's
im glad i read this post, coz i just signed up for this offer and i think its great.
The comcast DVR is not 5 bucks a month with the HD package. I have a 147 dollar comcast bill a month. Digital Silver with HBO/SHO and i pay 10 bucks a month for the DVR and get HD free or so they say.
My sister has a Tivo I bought for her as a christmas gift 2+ years ago and my main beef is that you cant record one thing while watching another. I think thats useless. Plus TIVOS cant record HD, my 6412 can. I dunno, TIVOs finished.
I have a Tivo and a HD Motorola DVR from Comcast and they are simply not in the same league, barely they same sport.
The ease of use of a Tivo is comparable to an ipod in that an absolute retard, or your/my wife could pick it and make it work without a single question.
I have been on the phone with Comcast 6 times in 2 months and I'm on my 2nd Comcast box in as many months. My Tivo Ive had for three years without a single problem. The quality of the two is just incomparable. The Comcast box is either rebooting, stuttering, dropping the audio or video or both, or some other screw-up that my Tivo has NEVER done.
When the Tivo series 3 comes out, I'll drop the Comcast box like the piece of $h!t that it is.
Why isn't anyone talking about the new features that Tivo just added? None of them are ground breaking but it's a great direction for them to be going. You can play Live365 stations, which work very well, pull up various things (pictures, weather, etc.) via myYahoo and buy movie tickets on Fandango. Again, none of them groundbreaking but with the music, pictures, and purchasing capabilities, isn't this a significant step toward a much more useful device?
I've had my Adelphia Scientific Atlanta DVR for about 10 months now and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Records 2 HD channels at once, or watch one and record one. $5.99 with HD service. Couldn't be easier to use if they tried. Haven't had a single problem with it.
Does anyone have the link to the $17/month Tivo service? I want one!
This is absurd. Trust me when I say that Tom is extremely well aware of the November trial, and intimately familiar with its results. There is, however, a big difference between a trial and a launch. I'd think you guys could give the CEO a little credit.
I had a replay tv "IT WORKED GREAT" circuit city lost it while repairing it and STUCK ME WITH A TIVO THIS THING IS REAL AGGRAVATING ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE HAD SOMETHING BETTER!!! --------------------------I WILL GET ANOTHER REPLAY TV AND GET RID OF tivo!!
http://www.tivo.com/0.11.offer.drtv.asp?p=1695&WT.mc_id=25&WT.cg_s=25&requestid=13891510
Just ordered one! My cable company (RCN) does not offer dvr in my area, and i cant afford to layout $150 for a box, so its worth it for now
If Marc Perton wasn't so focused on being snarky and attempting to poke fun at TiVo, he might've checked the facts first.
Of course Tom Rogers knows about the trial in the fall - he talked about it on the Q3 conference call three months ago! In detail actually, about how it was a success and TiVo would be looking at doing more pricing like that in the coming year.
Well, this is now 'the coming year' and TiVo is going to be officially launching the new pricing. That was a trial, this is an official launch. The two are different.
Trying to be snarky, and being incorrect, really don't combine well.
To the 6412 fanboys: I had 3 Series2 TiVos. Now, 2 sit in the closet and are replaced with 2 Moto 6412 IIIs from Comcast. The 6412s are not complete $h|t but darn close to it. The TiVo interface makes the 6412 look like a TRS80. My TiVos never let me down and if they did it was user error. The 6412s are so full of bugs, I feel like a beta tester. Whining case fans, phantom 1989 recordings, lack of HDCP handshake to receivers, lack of Dolby 5.1 on recorded programs, sound drop-out, video stuttering...the list goes on. As soon as TiVo is out with the Series3, I want one. The Series2s always worked as promised. TiVo is a little late with an HDMI 2 tuner box, but better late than never.
I miss my tivo, I use the Comcast SA box as of this week, It sucks! But tivo obviously doesnt understand their install base.
No hi-def box that works with regular cable (Comcast, TW, ect)
No remote log in or networking for direct tv boxes
No Mac computer support for most services, I could go on and on.
Giving away boxes isnt the solution, fixing the base user support is!
I actually have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD from Comcast, not a Motorola. I've used the Motorola and I'm not that big a fan of it. I think the 8300 has a better (although not as attractive) interface, and I can say that it's never had a problem and it has good picture quality. I'm sorry, but whatever you think the benefits of a Tivo are, it's just not worth it to many people to pay almost double the price of their cable DVR or to have to pay for the hardware to get those features. I'd probably pay a couple dollars more per month for tivo, but $17 is just a bit much on top of the overly expensive cable bill.
The real value of TiVo (and other free standing DVR companies like ReplayTV)? How about this...? Without TiVo (and others), you wouldn't even have DVR. You think cable companies invent useful technology like that? Ha ha. They show up once the inovation is done. If small companies like TiVo can't make it, your TV experience is doomed to stagnate...
There are two different kinds of software for the SA8000 SD. My understanding is that the Pioneer software sucks pretty bad. And my experience is that the homegrown SA software SUCKS LIKE A HOOVER.
While my wife was down for a month after neck surgery, we ordered Digital Cable and a Cox DVR to go with it. Having a Tivo and this machine at the same time made for an interesting contrast. While the SA device had dual tuners and twice the HD space, its software was absolutely worthless. I mean, horrid, horrid, bathing in the River Styx- Timex Sinclair - WinCE bad. It was unresponsive, error-prone and unreliable. You just HOPED it recorded your programs. Anything important was left up to the Tivo.
Comparing it with Tivo is like comparing a turd to a sirloin. You CAN technically digest the turd, but who wants to?
To be fair, I understand that not every DVR is this bad - but SA should hang its head in shame, fleeing behind a hail of rotten tomatoes - and eggplants.
One more thing - we didn't beed digital cable. So with SD TV and analog cable, Tivo's $12.95 /month is a lot cheaper. For home theater enthusiasts and HD folks, this is a no-brainer, since you have digital cable anyway. But regular folks who don't know HD from SD from EGA, the Tivo is very economical. You can even use Tivo with rabbit ears.
We just ordered this $16.95 plan to use with our basic ($30) cable service to record our favorite shows while we're at work or away. We don't need the HD options, we can't get satallite at our apartment, and I like the easy to use TiVo interface and Tivo-t-go transfers. They were backordered so they sent us our DVR about 1 1/2 weeks late, but they upgraded us to a 80-hour unit for no charge.
The only things you aren't entitled to with the monthly plan is the ability to upgrade to lifetime service, and adding additional boxes at a discounted rate.
The pricing is the same as buying the unit with no upfront cost barriers. I think it's a good move all around.
I think TiVo took that 16 dollar a month deal down. That link is broken now.
TiVo is useless until it can record two shows at once on digital cable. My current DVR, which costs $5 a month, does that and it's good enough for me.
"I've had my Adelphia Scientific Atlanta DVR for about 10 months now and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Records 2 HD channels at once, or watch one and record one. $5.99 with HD service. Couldn't be easier to use if they tried. Haven't had a single problem with it."
Ditto - HD tuner, 2 tuner, cheap if you already have cable - why pay a 3rd party more for less. With the exception of moving the content to a pc or disc whats the point? BTW - how long do you think you'll be able to continue moving the content now that iTunes is selling epesodes....?
I really wish these guys would just offer me a new series 2 box for $99 that i can use with my existing service. I have been a Tivo freak for 5 years now however I am not going to pay another lifetime fee to use it. It will also keep me from leaving Tivo at some point. Tivo needs to think about thier loyal customers and give us the new goods.
I don't understand people that want to watch one non-recorded show/while recording another. This to me is the strangest behavior of a PVR owner. I NEVER watch live TV. NEVER. One reason ... 30 Second Skip. It's been years since I've been 'forced' to watch commercials. Why would a person do this? I guess I just program in the shows I like and watch them the next day after they air. But then again, I plan the things I want to watch...I had some family stay with me for about 6 months and the only one that got it was the 7 year old. She understood the whole commercial-skip thing.
Dual-Tuner is a must I will admit. But this is just a matter of time for TiVo. As far as the monthly cost goes...I have 2 Series2 TiVo's and I just paid the lifetime subscription cost on both ($299 ea). It hurt at the time but in the long run...it was cheaper.
Since I can purchase space upgrades and such from places like weaknees.com...I find no limitations.