Disney may support both HD DVD and Blu-ray

While Disney continues to insist that Blu-ray is a better standard and will eventually win the format war, the company seems to be edging toward a position of supporting -- or at least releasing movies in -- both HD DVD and Blu-ray formats. At a recent shareholders' meeting Disney CEO Robert Iger talked up Blu-ray, but then went on to say that the company would "probably publish in both formats." The move mirrors similar decisions by other studios, such as Warner Brothers and Paramount, both of which had originally been HD DVD-only, but later went on to declare format neutrality. And while there are still a couple of studios with exclusive ties to one format over another, most seem to be following a trend also being pursued by hardware vendors and hedging their bets. Of course, the day we see Sony Pictures release an HD DVD disc is the day the format war officially ends.

[Desert @ Mar 15th 2006 3:43PM]

And by 'better standard' they mean how much are their executives getting in bribes.

[Kyran @ Mar 15th 2006 3:56PM]

Well there's an interesting twist. It's good to see more chaos stir up between these formats, being someone who is apathetic to both.

I'm still hoping these are both going to end up as VCD/LaserDisc and SACD/DVD-A in the consumer market. The industry needs a hard slap in the face like that even though it's losing too many jobs as it is. :( I'm not a big fan of overpriced stepping stone tech anyway.

I'd LOVE a way to deploy HD content in a predictably compatible medium, but having an HD format that downconverts back to SD anyway if the consumer doesn't have a matching set of specific copy protected hardware is - dare I say - downright retarded. If you want more people to buy your stuff, the last thing you want to do is put more restrictions on buying. The vast majority of HD capable consumers out there won't be able to view these disks in HD legitimately be it because of their TV, receivers, operating systems or whathave you.

Somebody seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to get consumers to embrace a new format. Betamax and VHS had to have a decisive winner because there was nothing that served their functions before them. It took many generations of replacements before there was one consumers would actually adopt. I'd honestly be surprised if the mainstream embraced this stepping stone tech so quickly when they have so many restrictions built into them.

Disney may be worried that it might be a bad idea to just go with one of the formats, but I think it's dangerous to support any of these formats so long as they prevent legitimate customers from viewing its content.

[Juan @ Mar 15th 2006 4:01PM]

Hi Everybody,

Is it me or is anybody else irked about the "format war" taking place between Blueray and HD-DVD. I HATE the fact that studios are planning to release content in both formats, and players being developed that only play one or the other. While there have been reports about thoughts being entertained for dual-players, in the end unless dual players become "the standard", the CONSUMER on the wrong side LOSES whatever they've invest in their media once hardware development for the losing format fizzles out a la Betamax.
The greedy and thoughtless movie industry again not thinking enough about the consumer, only cranking out stuff to sell. What they should be doing as an industry is "encouraging the development of A STANDARD" so we can all move forward more smoothly. Just my two cents.

[1techvision @ Mar 15th 2006 4:37PM]

Not to dumb down the issue by completely not mentioning the tech merits of the two formats, but really - I just want the best looking format for the money.

If each ultimately looked the same, no matter the capacity storage differences and copy protection limitations, I'd want the cheaper solution. Hopefully there are a few thousand other people thinking the same.

[hmurchison @ Mar 15th 2006 4:43PM]

Good for Disney. Why should a content provider choose sides if there seems to be enough opportunity in both camps. Disney co-created iHD, the Interactive Layer in HD DVD, along with Microsoft. They may as well show us what they can do with it.

I just want my movies and I cannot help it that hardware companies are so beholden to patent and licensing revenue that they consistently want to "roll their own"

[Yem @ Mar 15th 2006 4:48PM]

I think we're all waiting for players which accept both formats. When that happens, the idiots in charge suddenly have to compete on price and the consumer wins.

How hard can it be? We have DVD drives that can read CDs just fine. HD & BR both use similar hardware technology and codecs. Make it happen.

[Jon @ Mar 15th 2006 5:14PM]

It looks like much of the industry is now coming back around to HD-DVD camp again. I think HD-DVD is best for consumers...it allows the most flexibility and will be cheaper to manufacture...therefore hopefully cheaper for us to purchase. If only Dell will jump on the Bandwagon...HD-DVD would have the computer manufactures all on their side.

HD-DVD players are $500+ cheaper than Blue-Ray players.

[MrFloppy @ Mar 15th 2006 6:41PM]

"1. And by 'better standard' they mean how much are their executives getting in bribes."
Well, maybe 'cos Blu-Ray is indeed better?

I want the best format to win, and that's the Blu-Ray.
More capacity, 1080p... do you need more?

HD-DVD is cheaper? Well, we have to see it when they come. Anyway, the Blu-Ray could be cheaper if they want, and of course, I think we're forgetting about PS3, for the same (or less) money we get a lot more.

It's not fanaticism , I really want the best format to win, not a replay of VHS vs. Betamax (and we all know what happened there).

[HDman @ Feb 5th 2007 4:31PM]

HD DVD is now also 1080p (Toshiba HD-XA2).
A 30GB HD DVD is cheaper to make than a 25GB Blu-Ray.
Most reviewers/critics are saying the HD DVD movies look better than Blu-Ray because the HD DVD uses VC-1 and most Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2.

[Brian @ Mar 15th 2006 11:28PM]

MrFloppy, Blu-ray has its advantages over HD-DVD (capacity per layer and the scratch-proof coating to name two) but 1080p support isn't one of them. HD-DVD does 1080p at 24, 25 and 30fps while Blu-ray can only do 24fps.

[Dave @ Mar 16th 2006 9:31AM]

Um, sorry to rain on your parade Brian, but to say that Blu-Ray only supports 24fps shows a serious lack of understanding of the technology. Both BD and HD-DVD will be using the H.264 codec, and therefore will support whatever framerates are included within it. 24fps is the standard framerate used in the cinema. 30fps (or 29.97fps) to be exact is the standard NTSC broadcast framerate. High def will actually double this. PAL will be 50fps (for those in Europe et al) and NTSC is 59.94. Read the specs. The differences between BD and HD-DVD in terms of actual content are minimal. The big difference is in actual space on disk. Which BD will have in abundance. I don't truly care which format wins as long as I don't end up in 2 years time with an obsolete technology. I will be buying a PS3 when it comes to market, and I may well just buy an HD-DVD player to hedge my bets. Either way, I will not be caught out.

[disc_zombie @ Mar 16th 2006 12:49PM]

Meh, Disney gave great support to Laserdisc (just look at the awesome LD box sets they made for many of their films), but that didn't help the format much.

I'm perfectly happy with my Laserdiscs and standard DVDs for the time being. I'm fairly sure that the movie/video companies aren't going to abandon the standard DVD format as soon as blu-ray and HD-DVD hit the market, so I'm definitely sitting on the sidelines for this battle until the dust clears.

And I'm certain that I won't be alone . . .

[MrFloppy @ Mar 16th 2006 3:13PM]

Brian, please, give me a link that says HD-DVD does 1080p.
Really, I read long time ago (here in Engadget) that HD-DVD will do 1080i only, and nothing has changed since that.

[o rly @ Mar 16th 2006 5:47PM]

@ MrFloppy/12: "Brian, please, give me a link that says HD-DVD does 1080p.
Really, I read long time ago (here in Engadget) that HD-DVD will do 1080i only, and nothing has changed since that."

I would've said GIYF, but you may get incorrect results as you keep spelling it "HD-DVD" instead of the correct "HD DVD". The following link has a little information, dated Thursday, January 12 2006.

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/HDDVDCESinterview.php

[MrFloppy @ Mar 16th 2006 6:16PM]

So they will support 1080p in the future? Well, that's better. But I don't like this: "Also note that advanced 1080p displays can also do their own conversions from 1080i to progressive."
It's true, but I prefer native 1080p content, rather than upconversions.
But this is not true "There are no limitations in HD DVD as a format (i.e., both BD and HD DVD support the same native formats: 720p/60, 1080i/60, 1080p/30)"
He said that now HD DVD doesn't support 1080p, so...
And will they re-realease HD DVD titles when they support 1080p? Thanks, but no thanks.

Well, you know what? I'm with HDV :p

[o rly @ Mar 16th 2006 8:12PM]

@ MrFloppy/14 : "He said that now HD DVD doesn't support 1080p, so..."

I believe he was referring to the players not supporting it yet (until HDMI specs are finished), but the discs will.

[disc_zombie @ Mar 17th 2006 4:31PM]

http://www.connectedhomemag.com/HomeTheater/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=49627

"Both formats will natively support 16:9 widescreen HDTV formats such as 720i, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, which, when combined with the huge storage capacities, make them perfect for delivering HD movie content."

Even the earliest article I have on Widescreen Review Magazine on the two formats (this was way back in 2000) says that BOTH formats support 1080p.

[Jeffrey @ May 28th 2006 8:44AM]

What they COULD have done:
A good MP4 codec (such as Nero MP4 AVC) can compress movies to almost 1/4 of their size and maintain the same quality as in the normal MPEG-2 format that DVD-VIDEO uses. Most movies vary between 4GB and 6GB. Widescreen Standard Definition movies actually need LESS space because all SD movies have the same width (640 on-screen pixels) so 640x480 is the most pixels despite the fact that it is a smaller viewing area on a widescreen HDTV.
I digress.
If you take a 5GB movie for average then 1/4 is 1.25GB. A 720p movie (1280x720) has FOUR times the number of pixels. So 4x1.25= 5GB (coincidence). So you can definitely fit a 720p movie on a normal dual-layer (dvd-9) DVD-VIDEO disc that has approximately 8GB of space.
Unfortunately, 1080p has 2.25 times the number of pixels so a movie would need about 11.25GB. But does it really? I compressed several High-Definition movies to 4.2GB and they look incredible on my 720p HDTV. The truth is, despite the fact that 1080p has more pixels than 720p it does not look twice as good. If you had two identical television except one was 720p and one was 1080p both playing a High Def movie of 1080p (downconverted for the 720p) the difference would be barely noticeable. (as a computer monitor yes, but as a TV/Movie screen not so much)

To compare, High Definition cable TV is heavily compressed. So much so that the so-called 1080p signal probably has slightly less than what you would need for a true 720p signal.

The bottom line is that, in practical experience you can put a High-Definition movie on to a regular DVD-9 disc and it would be very, very hard to tell it from a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Oh, and you can buy current DVD players with High-Def Divx/MP4 conversion for about $150 CDN. As well, the now cheap DVD-9 discs could still be used for DVD's and in computers.

One final note. Apparently due to licensing costs with the MP4 format, most or all of the current Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs are using the same MPEG-2 format that's found in today's DVD's. This means that the disc has to spin much quicker. NINE times as quick!! (do the math) That's why the devices are bigger. They need shocks and noise-dampening solutions.

If you watch a High-Definition movie on a good HDTV that has been compressed to fit a regular DVD-9 I think you'll come to one conclusion: "We didn't even need Blu-Ray or HD-DVD."

What I would have done is to use the existing DVD-9 media as I said with an MP4 codec and spend more time to work on a silent solution that doesn't require discs or has a low spin rate such as holographic discs.

[Jeffrey Byers @ May 28th 2006 10:14AM]

Future HD players:
I'm expecting Blu-Ray to win. However, I wouldn't buy a player for the current cost even if I was sure. A major flaw in the design is that the decision has been made to initially use the MPEG-2 format for High Definition content to avoid paying MP4 licensing fees. This means that the disc will have to spin at least THREE TIMES as quick as the MP4 format which will already have to spin several times quicker than current DVD's due to the extra data. This makes the device noisier and the design has to be heavier and more expensive. Now that we're stuck with these basic designs here's some features and issues to look for in future High-Def DVD players. Some of the following may be available in the first generation Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players:
1) Hard drive. Allow for pre-loading of movie to avoid disc noise and use for other purposes.(a quiet laptop drive can buffer a movie in 8 to 20 minutes depending on whether the MP4 or MPEG-2 codec is used)
2) Internet. The hard drive can also be used to support a basic Operating System for web-browsing, e-mail and more interactive features such as Trailers and commentaries, and of course a TV listing. E-mail should have be able to talk to the computer's e-mail program such as Microsoft Outlook. So mouse and keyboard support via USB should be standard. This is already in the works as far as I know.
3) Other Audio and Video. Other video formats such as WMV9, Divx/Divx Ultra, Xvid and MKV should be supported through hardware and software. DVD/CD-Audio/MP3 should be supported. An MP3 collection (stored on the hardrive) should be playable without a TV interface and should be remotely accessible and able to play concurrently with a Movie. Playlists should be available through the TV interface or through communication with a computer. MP3 devices should also be able to upload/download with the player.
4) Pictures: Many cheap DVD devices have basic slideshow options. This should be improved with pictures stored on a hard drive or read from a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray disc or media device with a superior TV interface for all of the Multimedia.
5) Cable/Satellite card slot. Many HDTV's have this ability which won't likely be used for several years. It would be nice to put it in the High-Def player.
6) TV Recorder. Since we already have a hard drive a Tuner or preferably a Cable Card when available would cut the cost of a separate set-top box, save on space and reduce the number of inputs to the TV.
7) Basic Gaming. While obviously not going to compete with PS3 or XBOX 360 there's a lot of games that could be written especially if an extra, low-cost processor and some memory were installed.
8) VOIP. Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol. Perhaps more suited to a separate box or as part of the home computer, VOIP should at least be considered as a possibility for being integrated into the player. The hard-drive could be used for voice messages that are remotely accessible through the home telephones.
9) PC interface. The device should be able to transfer media files between drives and even act as a computer extension. USB ports attached to the DVD player should permit gaming through the remote PC. Two players could share a computer but be in different rooms. (Or conversely, High-Def media could be placed in the DVD player and sent to the computer)

As you can see there's a lot that could be done and I expect to see many models. The trend of electronics is the merging of devices so expect the line between computers, media players and gaming consoles to blur. Whatever the future holds, I'm certain that the current High-Definition players are overpriced and underfeatured.