The infamous narf2006 has made good on
his earlier promise to provide a video of Windows XP booting on an Intel-based iMac. While the video looks fairly
convincing, we'll continue to reserve judgment at least until Colin Nederkoorn hands narf a check. Speaking of which,
Colin, sponsor of the XP on Mac contest that started this whole thing, had to switch hosts after
yesterday's frenzy, and is now hosting only the
contest page, rather than the forums where narf had earlier posted pics of his supposed XP solution. Colin expects to
have narf's solution in by the end of the week for testing, so we should know pretty soon whether this is the Holy
Grail or a just another tin cup.
Update: Narf has
sent his
solution to Colin for testing, so this does indeed seem real. Now let's see if it's reproducible!
Watch
the video (7.7MB MOV)
Read about
the contest[Thanks, Rob and Joseph]
posted March 15th 2006 11:09AM
why are you guys even wasting youre time to fight about this? give it a couple days.. see if it really works.. if it does that's awesome.. if it doesn't then that sucks. but if it does work well im buying a mac. and for people who are against this.. get a life.. no one cares if you want to put xp on your mac.
I don't care - I bought my apple stock - can't wait for it to skyrocket.
willyjsimmons:
1) Admittedly, I was disappointed to see the omission of the System Properties window showing CPU type/speed, but found the ACPI entry to be interesting enough to take my focus off that. It is still admissible of this XP installation running off a multi-processor machine.,
2) Okay, just checked, and you're right, I see the cursor moving beyond the window bounds. My apologies. At this point, I can't confirm or deny if this is usual behavior, it's been a while since my last XP install. But that is an interesting point.
>
Do you really think someone would put this kind of time into this just to fake out a few geeks for a couple days?
The contest operator obviously won't give out the prize money without testing the method, so this video isn't going to make anyone a dime.
heres some good stuff.
i was able to read the processor top line as "Genuine Intel CPU" at 4 minutes, 17 seconds. I can't make out the second line except for it does read GHz at the end.
i'm gonna frame cut it tonight and look at each frame in photoshop, let you know what I find.
Andrew.
Apple stock is down slightly today and Microsoft's stock is up slightly.
How will the analyists and bean counters, be able to keep up with all this? If Apple sales increase dramatically, who will know if folks are running XP or OSX? I imagine with the mac mini, for example, there may be those who simply wish the small form factor who will throw away the OSX install disks.
Did the contest rules say that the solution was going to be made available to everyone and would have to work on a standard retail copy of Windows XP?
If so, at least one Engadget reader (Bill Gates), is going to be happy - extra sales of Windows!
"How will the analyists and bean counters, be able to keep up with all this? If Apple sales increase dramatically, who will know if folks are running XP or OSX? I imagine with the mac mini, for example, there may be those who simply wish the small form factor who will throw away the OSX install disks."
Since Apple is a hardware company, their market share is tracked by the number of computers they sell, like Dell. So whether one is running Windows or OS X on that Mac won't impact the bottom line.
That being said, I think it will be a rare bird indeed who will buy a Mac and toss OS X. Even the most committed Windows fan is going to want to play around with OS X after making an investment in Apple hardware. And once that happens...well, the rest, as they say, is history.
Wow,
I never knew there were this many idiots in both camps. You either have the clueless mac fans who can't comprehend a situation where you need Windows for those pc only apps that you have to use at work and the even more clueless pc fans that prove their ignorance by not knowing the slightest thing about mac hardware. There are many reasons why one would want a machine that could dual boot. There are quite a few (probably tens of thousands) of professionals who would love the opportunity to use a machine with the aesthetics of an Apple and the flexibilty to run any program they wish without compromise. If this is legit, I will be the first one in line to grab a macpro and host a rip roaring party as we throw my insanely boring Dell xps out the window of my 5th story flat. The end result of this would create (in my opinion)a wonderful balance of beauty and usablility. Godspeed narf.
Oh god! The video looks awful. Would somebody tell this guy that he should deinterlace his videos before encoding or encode them with a codec that can handle interlacing properly.
98/Andrew: Don't bother dude. The frames are just too blurry/compressed. I agree that you can make out something resembling "Genuine Intel(R) CPU" and the "GHz" below (and "RAM" below that), but everything else is illegible (actually, it kind of looks like "1.4" at the beginning of the "GHz" line at some points, but that's a best guess). I've tried studying the video at various play back/forth rates and it doesn't help.
Here are 90 of the frames beginning at 00:04:13.18 that feature the System Properties window.: http://random.spd13.com/WoM/
Wow, what a boring lunch break! ;¬)
This ought to save Engadget some bandwidth.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=95773657265724988&pr=goog-sl
#92: Serously, in a Windows XP boot process on a normal PC, there is no grey screen with a Windows logo; I just think that narf skinned the Mac BIOS.
i have an idea, we should run the haked versions of osx86 on a mactel because you can!
Apple's stock is not taking it well.
Have you seen the video of the Viiliv?
It seem to do everything the iPod does as well as the PSP
http://www.devicetodevice.com
That being said, I think it will be a rare bird indeed who will buy a Mac and toss OS X. Even the most committed Windows fan is going to want to play around with OS X after making an investment in Apple hardware. And once that happens...well, the rest, as they say, is history.
----
Exactly. After all.. what do you think MS did when they saw OS X... went to work on Longhorn (now 'Vista')! DUH!
I can debunk a few of the naysayers here, as I know a bit about what goes on inside an iMac (PPC or Intel):
It would be virtually impossible to have a PC running through the iMac's screen, and here's why: The iMac's DVI port is output only. it does not accept any signals coming in. Furthermore, the connection between the Radeon X1600 and the LCD panel is neither VGA nor DVI, it is TDMS. TDMS is the language that virtually all video cards speak, is always converted to VGA or DVI before output to an external monitor (TDMS signals break down very quickly on long cables). In other words, unless you're REALLY handy with a soldering iron, you can forget sending a TDMS from any standard video card.
Second, the emulator bit is a no-go, as at about 1:05 in the video the computer is turned on cold. This is evidenced by the white light in the lower-right corner. This light comes on for a few seconds when an iMac is powered up, and pulses slowly when it is asleep. I know of no other way to illuminate this light, as it is tied to hardware on the logic board (apple's fancy name for a motherboard).
So while it could still be a fake, and I'm as cynical as the next guy, at least those parts of the vid are authentic.
Dual-booting is nice, but how about triple-booting? I'd love to have three hard drives on a Mactel: one running OS X, one running Windows XP or Vista, and one running Linux. Most of my work is done on a Mac, my gaming is done on Windows, and my hacking/fooling around is done on Linux, which I'm still trying to learn. Can Red Hat be installed on a Mactel?
The big question is one that somebody touched on earlier... is it enough to just boot into another OS? Or will driver issues and other incompatibilities ruin all the fun? If I install Windows games on a Mactel box, will they even work with the graphics card in the Mac? Maybe a better question to ask is, can you install a PC graphics card in a Mactel box? That might solve the problem, if it didn't cripple OS X.
Finally, how is all this going to affect the state of viruses on the Mac? Right now, we basically don't have any. I enjoy that very much. If this new cross-compatibility means that I'll suddenly be succeptible to all that crap, maybe it's not something I should be interested in after all. And if I get a dual- or triple-booting Mactel, can a Windows virus wipe out my Mac system, or is the damage restricted to the Windows drive only? If it can, and I have a feeling it can, that doesn't sound so great to me.
I have some comments on the gray background boot sequence w/ the winxp logo. Yes, I do agree it looks like it's the regular boot sequence with the apple replaced. *That's what it is.*
The little Apple w/ gray background screen before Mac OS is the equivilant of a PC's post + bootloader. Apple just chooses to hide this. And yes, there is a way to change that screen. Narf probably changed that screen to show some individuality and the fact that the comp ran XP. When the grey screen is going, Narf's EFI to winxp boot process is probably going. Afterwards, Narf's code probably hands off to NTLDR, showing the WinXP boot sequence.
I think this is 100% real.
I wish to say a heartfelt thanks to Narf, who I'm sure is reading this.
I also wish to say a thanks to Mr. Bill Gates, who is also reading this. Bill, frankly, I just like Windows better than Mac OS X because it's easier to use. Was the taskbar your idea? Genious. And those window buttons (minimize, maximize/restore, close) are placed just right. It's so great to have a nice button to maximize the window. With macs, there's only a button to make the window fit all the stuff inside, but the ugly desktop is still visible, and that just makes everything look cluttered. XP just makes work for the user easier and faster too, with right-clicking and that lovely taskbar, which I already mentioned.
Lastly, I'd like to say a heartfelt thanks to Steve Jobs, who I'm also sure is reading this. Steve, you're a man after my own heart. Thank you, thank you for making your computers and iPods so beautiful. The hardware integration is just wonderful. I most especially love your iMacs and MacBooks.
For anyone having trouble with the .mov file:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2453354150079891557&q=windows+mac
I'd like to thank Steve for producing the greatest 2% world marketshare computer in existence. I'd like to thank him for producing a computer that supports thousands of programs for the engineering, financial, management, and government sectors in nearly all the world's languages. Thank you for the rich choice in supported audio and graphics cards, and devices of all descriptions. Keep 'er up Steve.
for those of you saying that the mouse is moving past the screen bounds, in windows it might actually be. in os x, if you downres a monitor in such a way that you have 640x480 or some such small resolution inside a larger monitor with black borders all around, when you move the mouse to the corner of the smaller area, it does in fact go outside the bounds.
food for thought.
a) While this could be faked with VPC or TS or just plain video replay, the system did seem to "start up" after the button on the back was pushed and the power light came on briefly like my Intel iMac does.
b) Regarding the desire to run WinXP on an iMac - I'd be happy to do it simply for the coolness of the hardware alone! Then I'd boot into OSX to run iLife apps. Still think Apple has the easiest video, photo and music app (iTunes is added value when combined with iLife apps over the PC). YES, there are cheaper PCs, but NONE look as cool as this iMac!
c) (warning, leaving orbit with this one...) Hey narf, next work on making Windows run direct on the hardware, but switchable with the equivalent of "fast user switching" so i can switch between OSX and WinXP without rebooting. (crap, burned up on re-entry!)
:-)
It is amazing to me that everyone claims that there is no grey screen. Yet none of them have booted xp on an imac. So in this particular case they wouldnt know. Also I am not sure that I have heard any of them claim to boot xp on an x86 or 64bit proc with EFI. hmmmm
key difference is EFI not bios. so you have to compare apples to apples. no pun intended.
@118 Joe Smith
Thanks man, I had never seen the word 'easier' and 'windows' used in the same sentence before. The rest of you post was quite funny too.
Thanks again.
M.
i guess he could boot os x if he held down option and had the xp installed on an external hdd. then anyone could purchase the HDD and have bootable XP in an enclosure
it's been won.
check the website..
http://onmac.net/
"Latest Update
Contest has been won - updates to follow shortly. All further donations will go into an account to sustain the open source project that will be launched with the initial solution. There are still many bugs to be worked out!"
the only reason i & many others want xp to run on a mac is SO WE CAN PLAY GAMES!
i will always design & surf the net on a mac, but no one can argue that there are many more games avail. on the pc platform!
:) can't wait 2 find out how xp (& games) perform on a macbook.
http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=11731&st=140&p=76489&#entry76489
oh my god, windows xp can even make an imac ugly
the power of windows..
it's legit. I just wanted to state that for the record when all you doubters get shown up.
#92 "The ZeroCorpse"
#80 "AEMV"
Sure the imac has a video input. It's inside the iMac, it's simply the TFT panel itself. Anyone who knows enough about the specs of such a panel can easily connect the panel itself to any video output (without doing any damage to the iMac at all).
I do believe that this was done in this video.
That's why I called the iMac "a Mac monitor" because it my well be that this is the only role the iMac performs in this video.
Don't be fooled. 12,000 $ gets you quite a few new iMacs in return...
kleger, can be right on the thing he says. I mean, it could be 3 diffrent movies. You don't actully see him/it rebooting. You only see the start of the boot. The cuts makes the video a little suspicious, dont you think?
Either way, it still looks legit.
This is a huge boon for those of us that use Maya regularly - who knows when an intel binary will be available, as Maya has more lines of code than OSX, and now Autodesk has Maya - I think we will be waiting for a lil while.
Now I hope to be able to use maya natively on a MacBookPro Laptop and still have FCP on the mac partition. My only other route was to use a pc with vegas or xpress with EDLs....
This is becoming like the Kennedy video, too many conspiracy theories... I love it. Can the author stand up and do a show and tell again?
To all those who dont believe: Please rap your heads around the fact that someone could be/is smarter than you and a better hacker/programmer.
To all those who believe: I would like to sell you some land west of Miami. :) Wait for more proof before you make a decision.
I think its stupid... Windoze on a mac is like hitting a mac with a hammer! (dont try this at home kids!)
If you need a windoze machine go and buy one and do your 'real-world' stuff on it...
Instead of sticking a bloated, virus ridden, worm infested toad on a beautiful piece of art...
Moral of the story...
OSX stay on MAC; WINCRAP stays on PC (Piece Crap)
:D END OF STORY :D
(i hope the majority of this form a macist's =P)
looks real to me. that boot flag did look wierd too. what i think he did is that since the intel mac is EFI, he could have found, modified, or wrote a BIOS emulator for the EFI. therefore he could have made it look similar to a mac startup just to keep the idea of it being a mac. honestly, are all of you here stiff assed critics. it's amazing how many people have closed minds. and that mac "monitor" thing. in a way, it is a monitor attached to a processor, but that is what we call a "desktop computer." there are Sony computers with similar design. and for the people who are saying why buy a mac for windows when you can buy a pc for windows, why the fuck are you looking at this forum in the first place?! i know you all saw that battery thing, well, if you were even paying attention, it said mirosoft AC ADAPTER when he opened the contents. windows may have interperated the mac PSU as a battery for all you know. The god's honest truth is that you cannot officially prove that the video was faked. i personally believe that this video can't be proved or disproved one way or the other. I hope it's real tho. all of you, have some flexibility. for just about everything that has the possibility of being faked, everyone assumes that it's fake right away. anyone with an ounce of brain would think you were all being pretty immature about this, i admit i am getting emotional about this, but you have to when proving a point like this. GROW THE FUCK UP ALL OF YOU!
Right, yeah, it loosk pretty real. But, i thought idea of the contest is to give the user a DUAL BOOT option. not just XP. So although impressive, not quite there.
@#44 i thought that too, but he does look behind the actual computer, but my moniter is crap and shows everything really dark, so someone else will have to look at that.
Firstly I would like to apologise for my ignorance, I expected the site to use International English.
Sorry to anybody offended by my post.
:D