Spycam mails tickets to owners of loud cars
By Marc Perton 
posted March 17th 2006 1:12PM
posted March 17th 2006 1:12PM
We thought the PhotoViolationMeter
-- a parking meter that can take pics of your car to prove you're illegally parked -- was the ultimate in traffic-cop
annoyances. But it looks like the new setup from Australia's Acoustic Research Labs has it beat. The system, based on
technology developed for the Australian Navy, uses cameras, sound-level meters and other equipment to monitor noise
coming from nearby cars. If your stereo is turned up too loud, or your exhaust is a bit too noisy, the system will snap
a pic of your plate and automatically send you a ticket. Since the system works by detecting differences in ambient
noise levels and singles out anomalies, we assume you can beat it if you just convince everyone in your neighborhood to
be as loud as possible at all times. Oh, wait, New York is already like that. Never mind.
Ugh the stereo types....
And I seem to fall into every one. It sickens me.
For the loud exhaust, yes, I am one of "them". Kid who owned the car before me (1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS) put a 2.5" mandrel bent tube for the exhaust and a fartcan that drags when I pull into my driveway. It's obnoxious, but guess what? It plays a harmony to the tune of my foot. I keep it the noise down at night in residential areas. Nonetheless, I'm going to put a nicer reasonator on it and exit the exhaust above my rear sway bar.
Now for the stereo... for those who are like (OMFG 50000000W AMPS LOL), keep in mind most cars are between 60-100 amps from the stock alternator, which supports around 1000w RMS plus 200W for other accessories at a 100% load which kills your alternator. I have a 160A (stocker died) and I'm running roughly 1200-1300W RMS in my system. 2 Alpine Type R 12" subs running off a Cadence TXA-1000D in a ported enclosure tuned to 40hz, and a CDT CVL 6 Pro component set on a Cadence TXA-3002 amp. I paid $2,000 for the car and I have around $1000 invested in everything else (alt, deep cycle battery, reg maintenance for the last 30k mi of abuse, wheels and tires, etc)
I'm also an A student and I respect the rights of others, but I like my toys as well. I think that as long as these people have a brain in their heads, they shouldn't be cracking down so hard on these things. Yeah, my stereo makes a bottle of water fly off my trunklid, and flips change like no tomorrow, but it's a hobby of mine and I tell you what, if I'm going to respect your hobby which may very well annoy the piss out of someone else, then grow some thicker skin and live life like it should be in the real world, suck it up, and quit crying.
It's not the equipment: it's the people that use the equipment selfishly and obnoxiously that creates problems in a civilized society. There's no law against liking toys. It doesn't matter if your stereo produces 5 million watts of sound. What you need to understand is: in order to listen to all that sound and blow your eardrums clean out of your head, you must invest in about 25 acres of land so you can park your equipment smack dab in the middle of it
and blast your music 'til your tongue hangs out. Otherwise, you have a responsibility to respect the rights of the people around you who live in the civilized society with you. These people have the right to dwell in their home without being forced to listen to your 5 million watt stereo. If you don't understand that, you don't belong in society - buy yourself an island somewhere and go live on it by yourself. Better yet, take all of your ghetto-blasting buddies with you, so you can freely blast each others brains out without affecting civilized, respectful and peace-loving people.
Good thing automated law enforcement is now seen to have questionable legality (since they're ticketing the owner and not necessarily the perpetrator).
Wow, seeing as how my car is hitting 144.6 db, I guess I won't be moving to Australia any time soon...pity since it's f'in cold in CT right now.
We can only assume from the tone of the article that the editor is one of those pimpled infants who drive around in a 90HP car with a Yuban can for an exhaust tip and 5000W of pure Class Z amplification blasting the latest jungle hop remix of John Denver classics at the highest possible level while cruising for "women" while the rest of us are trying to have a civilized existence.
I think the technology described is great! There's no inherent right to be an obnoxious jackass, even if you've been getting away with it for this long.
To jwb:
Here here! Less ghetto-blastin' in the 'burbs, plz!
This sounds like an excelent idea. Noisy cars (above permitted levels) and f***** up parking is one of the main annoyances.
Eventhough they should get a ticket, the police doesn't really have the time to deal with it.
So the system is ok, and I don't like the negative tone of this writeup.
Where can I sign up to get that in my neighborhood? This is one of those behaviors that truly makes you question the intelligence of the people who do it.
You know if my town wants to set these things up I'd gladly offer the usage of one of my front windows of my house... Almost every night, at like 2am my friggin' neighbor pulls up to her house and blares her music, and just sits there for like 10 minutes as bass pounds away as she chats on her cell phone. And of course my dogs are going bonkers all the while....
This would work GREAT for the Harleys that barrel down the street at 2am with the pipes wide open...could wake the dead!
"Wow, seeing as how my car is hitting 144.6 db, I guess I won't be moving to Australia any time soon...pity since it's f'in cold in CT right now."
So you're one of the jerks I hear driving around all the time. Honestly, why do you have to blast music in your car so loudly? Are you just trying to get people to turn their heads and look at you? You do realize that when they turn their head it's not because they're thinking "I want to see who is being so cool," they are thinking, "I want to see what idiot is annoying everyone with their crappy music."
I bet you have one of those fart tubes on your car, too. Another pointless attention grabber.
However, even though I don't like when people shake my house with their cars at 2AM while my kids are sleeping, I disagree with these automated ticketing systems. I think it's great that police agencies want to use technology to augment their limited resources, but they must also realize these systems can be drastically flawed and may ticket innocent people.
These systems are used to generate a revenue stream, not to reduce crime.
"I bet you have one of those fart tubes on your car, too."
You mean sports exhaust systems? Most of those are to improve the performance of the engine not make loud noises
I guess more people will have to join the democratic process to get laws changed ...
I see these things invading civilation and restricting people to the law that are set by others who i respectfully say do not understand that people and cultures are different and we all do different things.
* Loud music .. do i vibrate neighbors houses? - NO (it is not aftermarket but it Audi & BOSE so its loud)
* Is my music played louder than a white 40 somethingers music? - YES (is it crappy well im sure a lot of you here would say so .. it is just ladden with bass which is not the type of music for everyone)
* Do i drive dangerously fast? - NO (i drive within the safe performance limits of my $55k S4)
* Do i think that 55mph is a good safe limit - NO (its safe but i can drive just as safe at 85mph. - crappy cars should be restricted)
I hate bad parkers too .. i also hate road rage vigilantes and people who feel the need to do the job of the police ...
I do understand that some people can't drive fast .. i dont cut them off .. i go around when i can .. to avoid endangering someone's life ... much unlike the road rage vigilante who saw me about to pass from 20 feet back and reared his car into on coming traffic to stop me .. too bad i just went around the other way ..lol
just venting because of the disrespectful comments that so many people make here wrapped in the safety of the internet.
I hate people who have loud mufflers and stereos in their cars. Perminent ear damage is not punishment enough for these asshats.
I so desperately want a gadget that will break the stereo from these idiots cars at a distance. Not permanently, but disable the speakers for about 10 minutes. I could hide it in my car, or have it broadcast from my house if a high enough noise was detected. That would be awesome. Go get em robocop camera. You have my full endorsement.
HEY KIDS. YOU DRIVE AN ECONOMY CAR!!!! ITS NOT COOL, AND YOU LOOK AND SOUND LIKE AN IDIOT.
i used to have a system in my car u could hear blocks away, but i used it sensibly... never blasted the neighborhood at 2am or anywhere arround town.... mostly highway times... but #8 has the right sensible anwser there.... while no one enjoys being distracted by the idiots who playu music like that, automated systems suck i hate them.... they have red light camera's installed recently at a couple of the major intersections in my city and they suck... legally they cant take pictures of the driver only the license plate, soo the owner gets the ticket and has to prove to the courts (which dont seem to understand the innocent untill proven guilty thing) that he wasnnt driving... as far as exhaust goes, motorcycles have loud exhausts (much debated) but alot beleive it helps the bike get noticed which makes riding much safer, people dont look before they switch lanes... STOP TRYING TO MAKE ROBOCOPS... do we really want a world where everything is automatically watched and policed by technology... think about how far that can go....
"You mean sports exhaust systems? Most of those are to improve the performance of the engine not make loud noises"
1. There is a difference between a sport exhaust and a "muffler" with a 5" exhaust opening. Riceboys purposefully install certain "mufflers" just because they are loud and have that fart sound. I was in Autozone a while ago and this kid came in to replace a muffler he bought earlier in that week because it "doesn't make the noise." Riceboys don't REALLY care about performance (regardless of what they might tell someone else) and the modifications they make to their cars actually slow them down.
Explain how adding a ton of weight by applying stickers and heavy aftermarket bumper kits makes your car run faster?
2. The "sport exhaust" systems that really do improve performance are not street legal.
#9
There is a difference between a sports exhaust and what the ricer boys use. Most of these ricer boys have engines that do not benefit from such an exhaust, infact, the setup some of them have limit preformence by reducing back pressure.
And I am guessing everyone posting here is just as considerate to thier apartment neighbors when playing WOW /Quake/Halo2 at 2 AM, and blasting thier 5.1 system.
I like Bass, that said I don't turn up my music in town after a reasonable hour. as a previous poster said its for highway driving.
As for automatic ticketing, it needs to be a transparent system and undergo some better testing unless you want problems with false positives etc.
This is one of those issues that will always spark heated debate.
Your right to activities on your property ends when they extend onto the property of others. Just as someone can legally have your trees pruned back from extending onto their property your music can also be pruned.
The word 'civilization' implies that we are civilized and civil to one another. The sole reason laws exist is that there are those who aren't able to be civil. Laws are a reaction to events. If all were civil laws such as this simply would not exist.
None of this has anything to do with cultures or people being different because it doesn't restrict the type of noise but the level produced. Most countries and people bend over backward to accommodate other cultures but accommodation shouldnt have to always go one direction. If somehow someone makes the very weak argument that loud noise is part of their culture then unfortunately for them yes there is every reason to restrict if it violates laws and the rights of others. Just as no society could condone cultural cannibalism. Everyone has chosen to live within and benefit greatly from a society governed by laws.
If someone listens to their music for their own pleasure it should be nearly impossible to impose on others. The majority of complaints about loud car stereos could very very easily be avoided by the person producing the noise rolling up their window, which would in turn also enhance their experience since outside noise would be reduced. But of course there is one reason only that some dont extend that very simple courtesy They fully intend to disturb annoy and impose on others. They enjoy being the uncivil event that forces the need for the very law they complain about.
I love this! I don't force other people to listen to my music and I should not be forced to listen to their crap.
I think it says something about today's society that we even need to have something like this.
#17 did it ever occur to you that maybe people like to roll there windows down, and listen to music all at once...
im not justifying little shitheads that have $100 cars and $5000 dollar radios but im tired of government over governing...
i believe that if we dont stop these things now we will have much larger issues in the future, when any number of crazy things could happen
Most of the people who say "YES! YES!" to a dubious system of automatically ticketing cars that are 'too loud' probably don't understand some of the dynamics of perceived vs. measured loudness (dependant upon how they are measuring it here. I could easily play music at an INCREDIBLY high level that would cause permanent ear damage and be heard for blocks that would register a nullable amount on a mic that measures decible levels. Other types of mics are sensitive enough to catch the sounds in question, but only under some extremely tight conditions (something that cannot be reliably done in an open, urban environment). And under those tight conditions, they are still open to false positives because of things like a bird landing next to the mic, a plane flying overhead, a hard gust of wind, etc. etc.
I for one, do have a stereo, and have hit louder DBs than mentioned above, but what I also have is a little respect for my neighbor. I have installed my stereo and deadened my car in such a way as to keep the sound INSIDE my car. Even with my windows open and turned almost full blast, you would have to be standing on the corner when I pull up, to hear it (if you are in your car, you will not hear it due to your stereo). I turn down my stereo in neighborhoods and at intersections and at night. Alot of the people I see who do turn up their stereo do it out of contempt for those who are disrespectful to them (such as calling someone a 'ricebanger'). If you don't think that is the case, you have never seen the other side of the arguement.
And if this is how we are going to police, why not just make the product(s) illegal in the first place? Oh wait, that means the government couldn't make money off of policing the 'criminals' who use such overpowered, loud, obnoxious and morally irreprehensible equipment would they? I feel that equipment like this is MUCH more obnoxious and morally irreprehensible for the average consumer. OK, I'll stop now, everyone can flame away now... because thinking about it from both sides is far too much work.
#17 not sure where you are from .. however, in the US there is no one culutre .. so refering to cultural difference shouldnt' make you assume that "this country' is accomodating me. My culutre .. is one that listens not to loud music ..but to music with deep base which cannot be restricted by simply rolling up a window.
don't get me wrong, i am not saying that anyone has the right to impose their belief / lifestyle etc on anyone else but that said .. at 4pm in the afternoon on a public street, i should not be restricted to not listening to my music at a level loud enuff to be heard outside .. Can i go and tell the family walking down the street to sufficate their screaming child? perhaps. .but how realistic is that. The point I would like to make is that .. people are different and their lifestyles are different hence the reference to different driving styles etc. this extends through all facets of life. 2am in a residential neighborhood is reasonable .. restricting noise is a near impossibility.
i do think u are generally on the right track when you speak about imposing your will / lifestyle / etc on others is where the limit is drawn .. but there is also civility .. ie .. if your neighbors trees are really not causing your any harm or discomfort .. you probably won't make them prune them just because they hang over the fenceline .. that is a minimal amount of civility .. lets take it a step further and think of how that neighbors tree is actually enhancing your life .. but you won't know it until you open your eyes and look deeper ..
noise is noise .. so it is different, i know. But all these different things add to the color of all of our lives .. and people making comments like "Less ghetto-blastin' in the 'burbs, plz!" are ignorant .. and infact quite wrong ... since most of those people in the burbz are from there and thus i guess it would be called burbs-blastin.
We all need to lighten up .. including myself .. be free people ..
If this comes to the US, it will be struck dowm, just like the red light cams, because it assumes that the owner of the vehicle is the driver, and thus guilty.
#21 red light camera are in philadelphia where i live... we have #2 and #3 worst intersection in the nation within a mile (accidents), thats where they put them up and a couple other spots along that blvd... so red light cameras are here... i do support the method if it is used in a betterway, such as on our bridges and turnpikes... we use EZ PASS (automated paying) if you go through the booth designated for EZ PASS and it doesnt pick up ur pass then it snaps a shot of your plate and sends you a ticket... but red light cameras cant know what the driving conditions are, if its wet or icy, if there was a truck block your view of the lights, blah blah blah
i meant
"loud music at 2am is unreasonable"
Being a newly liscened sixeteen year old driver, I am sick and tired of our school parking lot blasting the crap out of my ears when everyone turns on their cars. No only do I hate nonety-five persent of the new "hit" music that everyone plays, but loud exhausts are annoying as well. I fully support this system. It's fint if people want to listen to their rap garbage in their car at decent levels, but blasting it so loud that everyone within a hndred miles goes deaf is rude and detramental to the health of the driver.
so i open my post and i get a ticket, and i send a response saying "im innocent, prove to me my car was making that much noise then"
good luck incriminating people!
Speaking to what MK (#23) said... the traffic light and the EZ Pass systems are both systems in which it is reasonable to assume (1) thing is evident:
The driver can visibly see that they could be breaking a law (running through an intersection with a red light, or running through EZ Pass without scanning a card).
It is like a case where you have a brake light out. You can get a ticket, but because it is NOT reasonable to assume that you can see you are breaking the law, if you fix the light, you will probably get the ticket thrown out. On the other side, if you are speeding, it IS reasonable to assume that you should be able to see your speedometer, you can be ticketed.
In the case of automated ticketing systems for sound, it is not reasonable to assume that any one person can accurately gauge how loud their systems will be to everyone else. Accurately, is the word I used here. I mean the police cannot pull you over for thinking you are going 85, they have to use a gauge to tell them this. Unless cars start installing gauges to indicate the loudness of a stereo to the surrounding area, it is not reasonable to assume that a driver can be held accountable for how loud it actually is. Period.
As for this automated systems thing, if it keeps going, eventually what we will have are automated systems installed directly in the car. This way, the police wouldn't even have to do anything, the car would send a signal out saying "Hey, I'm speeding" and take a picture of the driver for the police to go ahead and send a ticket out. And just as I do, I think no one here is looking forward to a system like this. Automated systems are almost ALWAYS flawed, this system should NOT be allowed anywhere.
how about the city govt provides or allows citizens with gps camera phones to send in clips of illegal activity. (or fires or accidents.. and vote, and see local weather alerts, and other admistrative crap) i'm so sick of automated, guilty-until-proven-innocent crap. a little more humanity please..
too bad we live in a place run by reactionary hack politicians and not experts or urban planners. get involved in local politics.
#23: red light cameras are not being struck down, they are being upheld. In fact two weeks ago a big class action dropped their suit against San Francisco and San Diego, because they were about to lose in a major way and be stuck with the city's legal bill.
Face it, driving like a jerk is illegal. You shouldn't run red lights, speed in school zones, mow down pedestrians, or have non-regulation equipment on your car. These things have always been illegal. The only thing that is changing is the efficiency of the enforcement.
If you don't like it, call you mayor and get the law changed.
Not sure if I want any more big brother than we have now but I know I've called the cops a few times to put down the ignorant teens and adults that feel obliged to ruin the day of everyone in an 8 mile radius of themselves. It's worse when they park. Little punk next door used to sit in his driveway and blast.
I'm with #12 except I'd like it to be permanent so they would have to buy a new amp everytime they came to my neighborhood.
I want my own personal directional EMP gun.
And I live in the country!
#21, I could be wrong, but I have not heard of nor can I find any proof that any red light cameras have been declared unconstitutional, and I would be surprised if they were.
The reason for that is this: The owner of a given property is legaly liable for that property and its affects on others, reguardless of what it is, what it does, or what happens to it. If you own an acre and a creek runs through it, and you decide you want a pond. So you hire contracters to come in and dig and fill your pond. Lets say without your knowledge or consent they decided to damn the creek to make the pond, now you are legally liable for the farmer whose crops could potentialy die due to his water supply being damned. The same principle applies to your car, as the owner of the car is legally liable when his car passes through a red light thereby endangering the lives of other law abiding citizens. If the owner was not the driver, he is still liable due to the fact that he let whoever the driver was drive the owner's car.
The argument still applies to the article's contents as well, as if your property projects ANYTHING (be it a tree limb or music) onto the property of others the government has a right and a responsibility to prevent your property from imposing itself or its affects on others.
Lastly, I do agree that a great deal of testing and "tweaking" should be done to prevent false positives (which with today's computerized acoustic technology, the number of false positives could be reduced to 0). I also would be all in favor of automatic ticket programs having a degree of "forgiveness" built into them, such that the first offense in a certain area (be it a city, county, or state) in some set period of time is waived, and as long as there are no more offenses in the same area before the period of time has passed, no ticket is issued (although a written warning should be sent).
That is all.
Just wanted to apologize since I believe the comment numbers appear to have changed while I wrote my above entry. Nothing Personal!
lets switch this whole thing upside down, take all the money spent to creat the technology, implement it, maintain it, and enforce it and use it to educate (or prosecute) stupid parents for not teaching there kids shit... im watching the news here on tv and im happy to announce that a philadelphia city councilman was convicted on 18 counts, consisting of conspiracy, fraud, bribery.... im soo happy i had to say that lol... this country wont be soo great in 100 years if the trends that exsist now continue to exsist in the future... now im just ranting lol
Question: Why is the Australian Navy monitoring noise coming from nearby cars? Surely thats a job for the air force?
Those poor ice cream trucks.
It seems many people want privileges without the responsibilities that are inherent in society. And much of what is being debated are privileges and not rights. And even rights are not absolute. All guaranteed rights have limits and can be regulated.
did it ever occur to you that maybe people like to roll there windows down, and listen to music all at once...
Yes mk believe it or not its very obvious that some people want to do it however there are many things people want to do that they cannot. Wanting does not equal a legal right to do so.
Sunz. Cultural difference explicitly means that there is not a single culture. Im quite certain that there are a nearly infinite number of things about your culture regardless of what it is that are accommodated by society. However no one in a society built of cultures gets to do everything they choose. Simply claiming an action as part of a culture does not does not give someone unfettered freedom to take that action.
You and everyone else have responsibilities to society. And whether anyone chooses to believe it or not most people derive many privileges and accept few responsibilities.
Youre making my point for me in your comment about the neighbors trees. Civility and courtesy go both ways. Courtesy would be not letting your tree grow past your property line.
It ALL boils down to respect. Music, booze, whatever is fine until you start encroaching on others by not respecting them and their rights. If your music is shaking my house- you are not respecting me. Tickets away!
I absolutely hate juvenile people playing their music loudly, trying to get attention. I don't think this is a good idea however. Really I just think there needs to be harsher punishment to these individuals, so they take notice, and think twice. Perhaps decapitation would do it?
From #14: "motorcycles have loud exhausts (much debated) but alot beleive it helps the bike get noticed which makes riding much safer"
A lot of people also believe that if you spend time in cold air, you are absolutely guaranteed to become sick. Both groups are wrong, of course. It's not the loudness, or the coldness, which makes you safer or sicker. It's operating your motorcycle in a safe manner, or actively stressing your body (and immune system) to the point of vulnerability.
Sure, noise gets you noticed (and cold temperatures can stress your body). But with the appropriate precautions and training, you need not worry about needing to make noise in order for people to realize you're there. And you can always try to take care of yourself and find ways to boost your immune system; more people catch cold in the summer anyway.
On the subject of this article: If my vehicle is leaking an intolerable volume of sound into its environment, then something is wrong, and I should get it fixed. Vehicle owners should not be proud of loudness.
quote:
23. If this comes to the US, it will be struck dowm, just like the red light cams, because it assumes that the owner of the vehicle is the driver, and thus guilty.
/quote
That's easy to solve: In germany they already have a system that takes a picture of the drive.
Joy Joy Joy. Please come and install this everywhere in the United States so we can gid rid of those morons on their Harleys'. I simply can't understand why the hell Harley riders are allowed get away with noise levels that would put pro race cars to shame - on the public highway. If your car made that much noise, you'd get a ticket. Why not them? I freaking LOATHE Harley's.
#32 said:
>If you own an acre and a creek runs through it, and you decide you want a pond. So you hire contracters to come in and dig and fill your pond. Lets say without your knowledge or consent they decided to damn the creek to make the pond, now you are legally liable for the farmer whose crops could potentialy die due to his water supply being damned.
You are completely correct. As an aisde though, this principle didn't seem to stop the US doing it to Mexico, did it? The Colorado River doesn't even make it to the sea any more, so much water has been used by the US.
Oy, I didn't know this was going to turn into this...
Yes I have a system.
Yes it's loud.
Do I turn it down at red lights so I can hear a horn or the screaching breaks of a possible accident? Yes.
Do I turn it down when entering neigborhoods? Yes.
Why?
Because i'm not one of those assholes with the fart cans and loud systems who only do it to get attention.
I like music, I like it loud and as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's rights, then you can all just kiss my ass.
(I drive an A6 by the way and yes those kids who have systems worth more than their cars are just plain stupid)
I am all for automated systems but I agree that there should be some forgivness incorporated.
Where I live, my house is located at the bottom of a blind hill. People constantly come flying over the hill with absolute disregard to what they cannot see on the other side. In the last 3 years 2 children have been struck on bicycles (minor injuries only thank God), 1 car got t-boned passing through the intersection, one dog killed and another one injured.
As for noise levels, the friggin' idiots around here blast their stereos full volume and bass at 2am almost every night waking up my 18 mo. old daughter and myself. I get up at 3:30am to get ready for work. I drive a truck for a living and cannot afford to go to work tired. Of course even calling the cops does not help because by the time they can arrive, all is calm again.
I would love to see some automated systems installed in my neighborhood to catch these people. But I think that it should be set up to issue citations based of a frequency of violation. In other words, the first time and maybe second time, a warning should be issued just to let people know that their illegal activities in this neighborhood are being recorded. The third time they should be convicted without the possibility of squirming out through some legal loophole.
Unfortunately, many of the same poeple that we complain about are of the mindset that "Why should I stop when I can keep getting away with it?". The only way to break them of this is to make it so they cannot "get away with it" anymore.
Just my 2cents
Forget the brainless auto-ticketing machine and instead set stereo noise fines at $5000.00 for a first-offense. Then send the cops out with good sound measuring equipment to enforce the law the proper way until the problem goes away.
"Wow, seeing as how my car is hitting 144.6 db, I guess I won't be moving to Australia any time soon...pity since it's f'in cold in CT right now." The sweet part about that statement is how clearly it demonstrates the onset of concussion-related brain damage. One way or the other, you're going to pay for your stupidity.
The way I see it, do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't effect anyone else. I hate it when I'm stuck at a stoplight and I can feel some jackass's bass coming through the windows. I like bass heavy music too, I just keep it down because I don't think other people deserve to get to play the game "guess what crappy music the guy two cars over is listening to"