China gives Skype two year sentence for reckless telco endangerment

China's got some businesses to protect -- landline phone businesses, that is -- and it sounds like no Skype VoIP licenses (enabling, for example, SkypeOut calling) are to be issued for another two years over there per government intervention. That's bad, but what's worse is apparently China Telecom's declared the software "illegal" (we assume that claim carries over to other VoIP software, too -- and isn't law) and the government's experimenting with ways to entirely restrict Skype usage as they see fit (which is a little more difficult than flipping a switch on the Great Firewall, being that Skype runs on standard HTTP / HTTPS ports). Sure, VoIP is disruptive, and we all know it'd be best to let the carriers sort it out in the marketplace, but damned if this isn't one of the more visible hands, so to speak, that we've seen in a while.

[fred @ Mar 21st 2006 10:47AM]

nice. korea != china, stupids.

[Moshe @ Mar 21st 2006 11:12AM]

Try this one -->
http://www.apponkey.com

[tekdemon @ Mar 21st 2006 11:15AM]

I think this post is a wee bit overblown, since the only people who claimed it was illegal was China Telecom-which isn't quite "China's declared the software 'illegal'"
Of course, yes China Telecom is government owned but then again so are half the companies in China lol.

Also, far as I can tell this doesn't rule out Skype to Skype calling, which I think actually makes up most of it's usage in China.

[. @ Mar 21st 2006 11:18AM]

nice. korea != china, stupids.
second that. How would you feel if your picture was in digg as "Germany bans Digg.com for inaccuracy"?

[Tom Tracey @ Mar 21st 2006 11:19AM]

The least you could do is keep your pictures linked to the right country. The Skype picture you show has nothing to do with China. The Skype sign in the background is clearly labled with Korean.

Come on, Engadget - put a little effort into your editing, will ya?

[umijin @ Mar 21st 2006 11:26AM]

It's not surprising. When are people going to wake up that China is a totalitarian state controlled by a repressive regime? Given they don't care about human rights, freedom of the press, freedom of speech - it's not surprising they take their censorship to another level in order to stop another form of unregulated communication - VOIP.

Do they really want to protect their TelCos? Maybe, as the level of corruption and state involvement in 'capitalism' is stunning. Unfortunately, most developed countries and companies are drunk on China's cheap labor and manufacturing capacity, at the pathetic expense of the environment and 80% of the population serving as indentured servants to factories.

What's hilarious is that 'strongest' nation in the world is powerless to push for any changes there, because China is holds huge sums of the US debt in bonds.

And worse because we (me too) are all hipocritical for being mega-consumers of the neat gadgets made there on the backs of the poor.

[minus_273 @ Mar 21st 2006 11:27AM]

" China Telecom-which isn't quite "China's declared the software 'illegal'"
Of course, yes China Telecom is government owned "

China is a communist dictatorship. If the party's body declares something illega, it is. There is no room for "individual opinions" like this is a country like that.

Secondly, anyone consider the fact that VOIP might be illegal becasue it makes it very difficult to wiretap?

[Frank @ Mar 21st 2006 11:32AM]

China is not governed by capitalism.
The US is.

Capitalism has advantages AND disadvantages.

I think the chinese population will manage quite well without Skype...

[tino @ Mar 21st 2006 11:33AM]

F*ck!

My mom and my *grandma* use Skype to call the relatives in the US. This is no joke. My uncle just asked someone to setup a computer in my grandma's house.

Oh well at least my mom is coming back.

[Insight @ Mar 21st 2006 11:41AM]

"lol @ korea != china, stupids.

All yall look alike to me... :)
"
yeah thats not racist at all...

[Frank @ Mar 21st 2006 11:43AM]

"And we all know it'd be best to let the carriers sort it out in the marketplace"

So that's the final ultimate Engadget truth?

I find that naive nonsense!
I really like Engadget - and all those nice comments that come along with it - but the above statement is really quite ridiculous.

Americans...

[gingerrabbit @ Mar 21st 2006 11:59AM]

...was it laziness or ignorance that facilitated the posting of the Korea+Skype image?

Guess it's just not important enough for Engadget to get right.

[Terence @ Mar 21st 2006 12:04PM]

I don't know where you are from 'umijin', but some around the world would argue that the USA, under its current leader, is no less a repressive regime with a heavily biased press and human rights abuses such as Guantanamo Bay lingering on their record.

That is not to say China is better - nobody denies that there is control over the media, lack of direct elections, and corruption in China... but it all has to be viewed in context. To describe China as a "totalitarian state controlled by a repressive regime" just isn't quite accurate anymore - my guess is you haven't been there, and until you do, you shouldn't believe everything you hear on the news.

China is developing at a phenominal rate - including its tackling of corruption and liberalisation of various service based markets (banking and telecoms included). These must come gradually - the last thing any country would want is mass ownership of such core infrastructures by foreign entities. With China developing decades behind the rest of the world, yet requiring the expertise of foreign investors - by gradual liberalisation they allow foreign firms to benefit from penetration into the Chinese market whilst still upholding domestic control over the market. You'd be wrong to think that the communist part does not want to liberalise China Telecom because of censorship - this may be a small reason, but truth is that China can do little to halt the growing momentum of information freedom that is already existing.

You say that it's hypocritical to purchase things mass produced in China. You'd not only be hypocritical for complaining about being the consumer - your country no doubt also has huge investments into the Chinese market from which they benefit your economy whilst "exploiting" the cheap labour market in China.

As for Skype - it's shite anyways ; use Gizmo. It's open standards, runs on SIP, and can interface with commonly available VoIP software such as the asterisk server.

[Yrian @ Mar 21st 2006 12:07PM]

I don't think this has anything to do with Chinese politics. (For example, had Brazil not ended its state monopoly on telephony a few years ago, Skype would be at threat there too.)

The situation here is the same as the one involving P2P file sharing and the recording and movie industries, mutatis mutandis: Some pretty disruptive technology rings the "they're threatening our dated biz model" bell somewhere.

And if the "carriers sort out the marketplace" let's be prepared for DRM, telco style.

[Chris @ Mar 21st 2006 12:14PM]

"All yall look alike to me... :)
"
yeah thats not racist at all..."

That's a quote from Chris Tucker in Rush Hour, by the way. I don't think anyone really gets offended by this.

[tekdemon @ Mar 21st 2006 12:14PM]

"China is a communist dictatorship. If the party's body declares something illega, it is. There is no room for "individual opinions" like this is a country like that.

Secondly, anyone consider the fact that VOIP might be illegal becasue it makes it very difficult to wiretap?"

lol, it's not quite a dictatorship even if it's more heavy-handed than other governments. But then again even dictatorships have their merits-but that's a whole other discussion.

Moreover, the "party" did not decree Skype to be illegal-if you actually read the link you'll see what I meant in my comment-nobody has actually decreed anything of that sort. China Telecom-who doesn't want to have to compete with Skype-is trying to make the case that Skype is illegal to avoid having to compete with them.

Also, in China, pretty much every internet company ever has to get a license. In fact, didn't Yahoo or Google or someone just get into trouble about a licensing issue? Either way, the point is that Skype should have actually bothered to think about this whole crazy licensing thing before setting up shop in China.

And finally, like I said, this only seems to affect the SkypeOut feature, so the other poster who was freaking out about their mother not being able to call the US need not worry since Skype's computer to computer calling doesn't call to landlines-and thus doesn't directly compete with say, China Telecom.

Oh and yes, I did consider that VOIP would be harder to wiretap. But then again in the US that's been a concern for intelligence agencies too. I'm pretty sure they just end up planting trojans on people's PCs to get around it though.

And finally, while I'm sure you're thinking that it's like 1984 in China, it's actually REALLY RIDICULOUDLY INSANELY HARD to wiretap the conversations of 1.3 billion people, lol. China does not go around randomly wiretapping people just to see what they're up to, because that would probably waste an insane amount of their yearly budget.

Back when I visited china in the late 90's I had heard about the "Great firewall" but when I actually got there the internet wasn't really filtered at all. Moreoever, other than being able to buy pirated discs of software everywhere, you could also get pirated discs of stuff that's theoretically banned in China. So I always find it a bit funny that people actually think that China has some unbelievably powerful iron-fisted information control system, because like I said, it's REALLY hard to be watching over the shoulders of 1.3 billion people.

I think this whole Skype thing just a bit of a teething issue with formerly government bodies having to, like, actually compete. But then again that's really no different from random US megacorps pushing Congress to make some new laws to keep themselves competitive. Even in the US the landline companies pushed for taxes to be levied on VOIP (because VOIP didn't get all the taxes that landlines did). And I think in a way the license that Skype needs is kinda of the Chinese equivalent of the line taxes here.

[mike @ Mar 21st 2006 12:20PM]

Unfortunately, most developed countries and companies are drunk on China's cheap labor and manufacturing capacity, at the pathetic expense of the environment and 80% of the population serving as indentured servants to factories.

----

Wow.. Look an American pushing for more government intervention and regulation! amazing! So they should have a better minimum wage than say, the $3 for California? Brilliant!

[weiguk @ Mar 21st 2006 12:32PM]

How do all of you knows know how to read Korean? Or at least how did you know that pic wasn't from China?

[Qubit @ Mar 21st 2006 12:43PM]

>>19

That hangul in the back of the picture is korean. Theres a difference between korean hangul and chinese characters. If you are familiar with the languages (doesn't mean you have to be able to read it), you can point out differences.

[umijin @ Mar 21st 2006 12:53PM]

I don't disagree with your comments about the US at all, Terence. And certainly China can't control all information in it's well over 1 billion people.

But the truth is that the "constructive engagement" policy doesn't guarantee anything constructive in terms of social progress. And the fact that the government still has to quiet any public dissent or free thinking tells me that concern for people is as low as it was when they massacred their own people in Tianamen square 17 years back.

[diulei @ Mar 21st 2006 1:27PM]

Seriously I sometimes wonder W-T-F is going through the minds of the government in China.

[emceay @ Mar 21st 2006 2:36PM]

Why can't anyone ever admit that maybe it's hard to tell asians apart when you're uneducated on asian culture. C'mon, if this was so serious african african-americans and native african-americans would actually have different names. Can you tell the difference between tutsi and hutsi? I consider it a skill that I can tell the difference between japanese and korean. A skill that's taken years to develop as I have no background in either culture. So before you bark on someone about mistaken culture, try to remember that sometimes, in reference to surrounding countries, everyone looks alike. Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, but until I read a little they were both the same person to me. I'm sorry fred, we can't all be as cultured and educated as you.

[alan @ Mar 21st 2006 3:28PM]

engadget just pulled the image from yahoo. hell they might as well just use a news aggregator that auto inserts content from other sites based on certain keywords because it seems no one is steering the helm.

[LJKelley @ Mar 21st 2006 4:30PM]

This is to be expected where any company has a monopoly... This has nothing to do with China or Eavesdropping. Remember, AT&T had to be forcefully broken up to remove the monopoly

Having been to Korea, China, and Japan; I will note that they are distinctive languages, and its not that hard to tell the lettering apart. Everyone has its own feel to it, with Korean being very "block" like, compared to Chinese which would be more "cursive" (to help translate that to english).

Also: This is very OLD news. I read about this on BBC News a few months ago.

[garygnu @ Mar 21st 2006 4:34PM]

#23, I think you've completely missed the point. None of the comments posted here are denying the difficulties some people have in telling Asians apart.

People are just surprised/offended/amused by Engadget's decision to use an image more appropriate to a Korean-related Skype entry than one dealing with Skype in China (i.e. Korean characters, Samsung laptops). It is suggestive of a racial and cultural ignorance or indifference that speaks very poorly to Engadget's standing on the web and the character of its writers and editors.

Having written that, I'm glad to see they've replaced the image in question with a generic Skype one. I hope they exercise greater discretion in future posts.

[LG @ Mar 21st 2006 4:43PM]

How to put this politely: You're all retarded, and none of you read the article.
China hasn't "banned Skype" or "banned the Internet" or whatever you're imagining. They've simply declined to grant it a license for PSTN interconnect. You can still use Skype the way you always have, for free. You can't use SkypeOut if you're in China. You *can* (it would seem) use SkypeIn and Voicemail.
AFP are also retarded, as their coverage of technology issues usually is. They've confused the two components of Skype as well. China hasn't "blocked VOIP calls for 2 years". They haven't blocked VOIP calls at all, in fact that's specifically what they haven't blocked. They've BLOCKED PSTN INTERCONNECTION!

[Jon @ Mar 21st 2006 4:53PM]

I'm definately not seeing the big deal with the use of the Korean picture... I'm not offended at all. Its a picture for a blog post, for goodness sake.

Not saying I agree with China's decision with Skype - I really don't. I'm pretty sure there are other methods of VOIP communication that can be used, as the end of Skype of China isn't the biggest loss in the world.

[Ryan @ Mar 21st 2006 5:49PM]

22: Not as much as I wonder W-T-F is going through the minds of the government in the US. At least the Chinese government are open about what they think is ok to do and what is not, unlike the US where they secretly take away your freedoms.

[yjs @ Mar 21st 2006 7:57PM]

Umijin is a freakin idiot moral crusader who thinks the American way of 'democracy' and 'freedom' should apply to any country on Earth. BS. Talk to people in China and they want stability and money first, talk about politics later.

Why don't you wake up and start becoming more tolerant about other beliefs?

[Chadwick @ Mar 21st 2006 10:58PM]

Whether they are banning things or just being restrictive, China is being highly protectionist (something that man are concerned the US could become again - Warren Buffet himself voiced his concern the other day).

Open the markets!

[OverburN @ Mar 22nd 2006 1:07AM]

HAHAHA The Great Firewall!! HAHA I LOVE IT!

[Justin @ Mar 22nd 2006 1:16AM]

China is a great country and just because it isn't as similar to that of more influential western countries, thats no excuse to make negative comments about it.

How many countries are 100% deregulated?

[hi2005 @ Mar 22nd 2006 4:12AM]

WE CAN USE SKYPE AT CHINA. China Telecom and China Ｎetcom are two fix line operators, publicly list at Nasdaq, although owned by the state. A country has its right when/how to issue the telecommunication licenses. See my post at: http://hi2005.wordpress.com/2006/03/22/voip-in-china/

That's not the end of VoIP, of course not the world either. In fact, VoIP service is becoming more and more popular at China.

[Circle @ Mar 22nd 2006 8:27PM]

Alrighty, another issue I have to weigh in on.

China represses its people and stifles all opposition, that is a fact that is not up for debate.

The reason for Skype (and all voip) being banned is readily apparent. Control, it would be much harder to monitor if they were so inclined and extremely diffcult to stop all together.

People's republic my ***. Ask someone to look up tiananmen square on their internet connections over there. Still blocked nearly twenty years later.

I mean really does anyone pay any attention at all to world events? And I don't mean watching your daily dose of CNN, I mean READING something besides your local/global fish wrap.

And as for the US... Sorry Chinese people, the only thing us fat Americans want is greenbacks. Take a look at what corporations get away with in the US.

And what about no torture? Oh that word is so 20th century apparently. I guess it's something like, "Strong physical redirection of beliefs." or some other P.C. type stuff.

Anyways, I'll leave it to others to judge their reactions, but of course this is the country where "Intelligent Design" is taught.

Intelligent design... The strength of unfounded belief in the face of overwhelming opposition by facts amazes me.

In short, and as not to hijack this discussion, if you can not see that this is China controlling its people, and not the other way around as a government should be, you are ignoring the reality of the situation.

2,600 (Chinese Red Cross) Non-Violent prtestors killed by machineguns and tanks. At least 7,000 injured. Still covered up by the same government that did it.

I've said it many times and many was, but if you cannot see this then you are blind.

1989 was not that long ago people. Governments that do that don't become peaceful in the span of a few decades.

I won't disrespect the lives of those protestors by brushing this aside as an isolated incident.

[passenger @ Mar 26th 2006 1:06AM]

6. Your idea: �80% of the population serving as...�
Source? Ever been there?
Your word: �hipocritical�
Won�t bite: http://dictionary.reference.com/


11. �All yall look alike to me...�
Obviously coarse and can offend. That�s supposed to be the joke, of course. As in, �only sad, ignorant people would say such a thing, so isn�t it funny if I say that tongue-in-cheek?� Get it? Safe to poke fun at a close friend who knows you are kidding but not such a good idea with people you don�t know at all, like on the web.

15. �phenominal�
Won�t bite: http://dictionary.reference.com/


24. �I can tell the difference between japanese and korean.�
No, of course, you can�t. You talk about Sunnis and Shiites, Tutsi and Hutsi, and then you make that claim. My family are Chinese-Japanese, and many of my friends are Japanese-Koreans and Korean-Japanese. Many. But you can tell them/us apart? Hmmm. Interesting contradictory (il)logic. Er, �skill�. (With skills like that, who needs delusions?)


29. �I'm definately not...�
Won�t bite: http://dictionary.reference.com/

36. �China represses its people and stifles all opposition, that is a fact that is not up for debate.�
Lived there? Been there? Any family, friends, or acquaintances who actually live there? It�s a real place where people live and breathe, and it is complex. Maybe cut back on your wafer-thin US movie and Fox News intake and your embarrassing platitudes.

Your phrases: �...if you can not see...�; �...by machineguns and...�
Won�t bite: (above link)

Suggestion: learn before you teach.

[passenger @ Mar 26th 2006 3:00AM]

36. Your phrase: �readily apparent�
�Apparent� means clearly visible or understood. �Readily apparent� is redundant. OK?
Your phrase: �...difficult to stop all together...�
�All together� means all at once or all at one time. �Altogether� means in total, or totally. OK?