Mossberg goes to Boot Camp and survives unscathed
By Marc Perton 
posted April 5th 2006 3:25PM
posted April 5th 2006 3:25PM
While some early message-board reviews
of Apple's new Boot Camp
software -- which was announced earlier today --
seem to show that there are at least some hazards to running Windows on a Mac (see the pic at right, which is
apparently one of the first Boot
Camp-assisted Mac BSODs), The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg has given the new boot manager a thumbs up.
According to Mossberg (who was able to sneak a copy out of Cupertino a few days ago), after installing Boot Camp and
Windows on an Intel iMac, Windows ran "blazingly fast," and all of the apps he tested ran
"flawlessly." Mossberg put the install time -- including both installing Boot Camp itself and running the
usual Windows installer -- at 57 minutes, 40 of which were claimed by the Windows setup program. Despite being
generally pleased, Mossberg did find a few glitches, including having to reset the clock every time Windows is booted
(apparently the system clock used by the iMac isn't recognized by Windows) and not being able to use Apple's iSight
camera. All in all, however, Mossberg summed things up with what may soon become Apple's new tagline: "Whether you
want to run Mac or Windows programs, an Apple computer may be the only computer you'll need."Read (sub reqd)
Number 48 : I guess girls don't like you either ;)
Quick corrections: there should be their, nark should be narf, but whatever you get the point...
btw, totally off topic, you should be allow to edit your comments...
hmmm...I can see this being good for those that need the Windows apps and I can see it being good for Apple, but it doesn't do much for me.
The correct sentiment here isn't "Nice Work, Apple". It's "Nice catch, Apple". This only supports Windows XP and (for now) doesn't give details about supporting Vista. This may be a one generation thing. So wouldn't the following train of thought make sense if you were an Apple exec? :
1. Get people to try a Mac before Vista comes out.
2. People use Windows on Mac (WoM) and dabble with OS X
3. People like OS X and use it whenever possible, shifting only to WoM when needed (work, school)
4. Vista comes out and is no better than OS X
5. People stay on Apple, buying more Apples.
7. Steve Jobs swims in giant bank of gold coins.
For good or bad of the platform, I think its a good business move. I do have reservations about SMALLER developers not bothering to for OSX, but I think the big guys like Adobe will continue to do so without a second thought.
I might think about using this to dabble in some of the crazy MS-only clubs like asp.net, but I think putting Windows on my Apple is kind of...creepy. Not jump out my skin creepy. Just "I swear the eyes in that painting are following me" creepy.
for ctrl +alt+ delete you hit ctrl+shift +esc i have a apple keyboard and this is the key combo i use on the slim occasion i need to run windows
#40 i was wondering the same thing
im getting the dell d620 and was wondering if i could run any mac apps? if so can someone point me in the right direction. Thanks! =) (im getting the dell because i can get a good price using coupon codes)
HELL YEAH!!!! Gotta go get me some-a dat!
My first reaction to the announcement was "I bet Microsoft won't be developing that Intel-compatible version of Virtual PC after all." After further consideration, I've changed my mind (if I were a betting man).
Virtual PC has obvious downsides, the biggest of which is the serious performance hit and lack of native device drivers, etc. due to running in a virtualized environment. For power users, something like Boot Camp is brand new and a necessity.
For office users, however, Virtual PC has serious advantages. It shares a clipboard with OS X, it runs windowed alongside your Mac apps with drag and drop functionality between the two, and generally fits into a mixed-platform workflow far better than a dual-boot scenario.
So for what its worth, I suspect Microsoft will realize this and press on with developing a Universal Virtual PC app, and that its sales will be the same or better than the last version, as it is adopted by former Virtual PC users now on Intel-based systems. It should be exponentially faster, as well, as the x86 processor emulation will no longer be necessary.
Installed on 2 MacBooks and and Intel iMac.
It's a standard PC people, everything works as advertised (which means, if you actually visited the Apple.com page, the iSight doesn't work, nor does the Apple remote, nor does the Apple USB Modem, nor does the MacBook Pro keyboard backlighting.) The repartitioning is non-destructive so you can sit back and just wait for Boot Camp to do it's thing. Took 5 mins on the iMac, took 45 after a drive issue on the first MacBook.
The drivers work and we even get a WinXP Startup Disk Control Panel from Apple with the PROVIDED DRIVERS.
I did a 20gb partition to install the 2 Windows-Only apps I need for work. I'll be benchmarking the system for work, but seriously this is where computing needed to be for people with laptops. Until the virtualization tech becomes a reality on OS X this will do just fine.
CTRL-ALT-DEL does NOT work, but a keyboard remapping util at Microsoft.com solves that problem. Of course it'll run games, it's a solid laptop and the software installs fine. I also installed MacDrive to get access to the HFS+ partition, works fine.
Remember, it's a PERSONAL COMPUTER whether it's running X or XP. The OS doesn't give a crap as long as it can boot and has the driver support for the hardware installed.
And please, for the love of God, will you donkeys weighing in with retarded questions just read the Apple page, or even better the PDF they provide as a walkthrough of the install process. It's straightforward and informative.
BEEP BOP BOOP
NUMBER 110110...
YOUR PUNY DELL IS NO MATCH FOR OSX!!! BOOP BEEP...
YOUR WIMPY INTEL DUAL CORE PROCESSOR CANNOT HOLD A CANDLE TO THE AWESOME SUPER COMPUTER POWER OF THE IBM POWER PC!!! BEEP BOP....
DOOTDOOTALOO....SYSTEM HALTED FOR UPDATES FROM APPLE HOME BASE.....DOOTDOOTALOO
UPDATE COMPLETE
YOUR WIMPY INTEL DUAL CORE PROCESSOR CANNOT HOLD A CANDLE TO THE AWESOME SUPER COMPUTER POWER OF THE INTEL DUAL CORE PROCESSOR...BOOP BOP...CONTAINED WITHIN SASSY WHITE PLASTIC AND METAL THEN STAMPED WITH THE APPLE LOGO!! BEEP BOP....
I would like more inforamtion regarding this Boot Camp, if what i read is true that we'll be able to install Windows XP. Are we going to be able to run virtual PC without any issues.
to # 52: "Additionally, with support for both EFI and BIOS for booting, Microsoft Vista will also be supported on a Mac",analysts for American Technology Research.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1652
So ... in Windows mode, does anyone know if I would then be able to connect my Blackberry and synch with OUtlook? Would instllation of enteprise servert software be a problem?
#42 Jon,
Thanks for the chuckle. I love it when somebody gets emotional over tech wars between Mac and Windows. I look at it as personal preference and then try to see where the trends are going. It sounds like you see it as being personal. Either way it's a lot of fun.
Clarification on Walled Garden: I didn't throw that line in as a security reference but instead as a way to describe the way that Apple controls as much of the experience as they can even down to the major periferals like iPod, Airport and closed system software that only works on a Mac and threrefore doesn't have to coexist or conflict with other third party crap.
But since you brought up the security angle I'll weigh in and point out that I agree with you that Windows is a bigger target for hackers and that is the major reason why Mac's are more secure right now with Mac's at only 4-5%. The market share won't go upside down anytime soon so I'd say that Mac's will continue to be the more secure platform for a long time. Windows isn't going away anytime soon dude, so you can relax and the rest of use can enjoy them both. This really looks like a win-win for everybody. If Apple happens to come out with some cool new device that you just can't live without then a single computer that can mix the best of Windows with the best of Mac ain't a bad deal .
bloody hell, can't anyone read websites? this does NOT mean OSX will run on your dell crappobox. You can get a hacked version of OSX to run, without drivers for any of your peripherals beyond a standard intel mobo's bits. And it NEVER will. Every update to OSX breaks the hack to run on non-apple kit, they will never, ever support it, ever.
but wouldnt it be cool if they DID
interesting, but still not enough to make me go out and buy overpriced apple hardware. building your own computer with hand picked components > *
i could care less about "having another OS (OSX)" or "industrial design hardware"
For those of you upset about cameras not working and the like, this is only a BETA of Boot Camp. When they release Leopard, it will come will a final, and hopefully near-bugless, version.
To confirm the BSOD, my 2.0 GHz MacBook Pro BSODed when I tried to use the built isight in windows. It's listed as a USB camera in my computer, but on clicking it I was immediately denied. That said, the computer started back up in both OS's with no problems. Also, as a side note, the built in microphone works in windows, I tested it in google talk and aim.
Wasn't it the point of running OSX on a Mac is to get away from all of Windows flaws? Now running XP on a Mac doesn't make it any safer than running XP on any other Intel based PCs. In fact, it brings all of Windows flaws unto the Mac.
Oh one more thing, I may have missed if someone already posted, but games work flawlessly. I've played, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and Civilization IV; they all play on full settings.
Hmm... I don't own any, but Apple stock posted a one day gain of 9.87%
Now make a mac app that runs on the other partition that can read the files off the windows side when you are running OSX and you'll have a bad ass system.
Man, my Powerbook and my Windows PC are really hating each other today. They both feel so incomplete =)
EVERYBODY SHUT UP!!! This is great news for people with Intel Macs because now you can run those PC Games and Apps you couldn't before (duh!). Things just got alot better. PC USERS: Get this... you will one day switch. Its inevitable. get over it.
Your PC may have cost less (with less features) but can it run OSX, WINDOWS XP, and have all the slick features, virus/malware free, integrated software like iLife '06, etc, and beauty as an Apple Computer? If you wanna stick to PC's, fine by me, but stop ignoring the obvious: Apple computers rock!
"39. Why does Apple require that you burn the drivers to a CD? Surely Windows could just search a location on the hard drive?"
what hard drive would it be searching exactly? the HFS+ formatted Mac partition that Windows is unable to read? or the Windows partition that gets formatted by the Windows Installer in the very next step after burning the CD?
- - -
"32. I wonder if boot camp would let you boot linux."
people have gotten a Boot Camp Mac to boot off a current Knoppix CD as well as the current Windows Vista installers.
- - -
"26. Related to the fact that iSight is not working, I have
read somewhere on Internet today that if you run the Windows Update, the camera is recognized as USB camera."
it shows up in the tray right away. and in the "My Computer" window. without running Windows Update. it does NOT however work. recognized... yes. function... no.
- - -
"47. The fanboy in this article even goes so far as to credit Apple for running Windows so fast. FFS. Enough with the Apple fanboys."
well. in early benchmarks they are spec'ing higher than any other core duo laptop. a recent article reviewing several core duo machines including a OnMac.net-patched MacBook had the MacBook beating all the others. and the OnMac.net patch didn't even have video drivers like the Boot Camp version.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/03/22/mac_fastest_core_duo_laptop/
and here :
http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=701&page=17
you can see : "Using PC Mark 2004 I got 5816 PC Marks" ... not bad. what does your laptop spec at?
- - -
"62. interesting, but still not enough to make me go out and buy overpriced apple hardware. building your own computer with hand picked components > *
i could care less about "having another OS (OSX)" or "industrial design hardware""
this product is not marketed towards you. not Boot Camp. not OSX. not Macs in general. i'm amazed how often people degrade products that aren't even meant for them. news flash : most people do not hand build a computer from pieced together components.
"67. Now make a mac app that runs on the other partition that can read the files off the windows side when you are running OSX and you'll have a bad ass system."
like say... OSX? format the Windows partition as FAT and you will have read/write access to the partition in the Finder. NTFS is read-only.
reading the Mac HFS+ partition under Windows is a different story entirely. you'd need MacDrive to do that. i don't know of any other solutions.
THIS ISNT NEW; CHECK OUT MY RELOADED INTEL AD: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6415770050655464328&q=reloaded&pl=true
So how many people will now be buying Photohop for Windows? Suddenly Intel Macs became somewhat viable for studios. Dosen't seem very smart since its going to be a year until Adobe/Macromedia apps run natively. That's enough time for people to give it a shot, they may not like it - but it may be good enough.
Im running XP Pro and posting this with Firefox... I downloaded the new Tomb Raider demo and it runs FAAAAAAST (i disabled the full screen glow though). Even F.E.A.R runs great, which I think many of you PC users would be interested to know =) The ATI drivers are based on the latest release. The only issue I'm really having is with the iSight, which will BSOD if i attempt to use. This is flippin great... time to sell my PC and use my MacBook as a portable gaming rig! X1600 ftw!
I notice the PC Weenies are really very defensive in this thread. I mean, the Mac owners aren't the ones throwing insults and naming themselves "Windowssucks" or variations on that theme. I've never understood why there's such a need for these Mac-haters to hurl insults at people for their choice of computer.
Seriously, what do you care which computer I use?
Extend. Embrace. Destroy.
So finally, and after all Steve's well-groomed propagation of an Us and Them diatribe, his rampant (and expensive) antagonism of Intel and Windows, it all turns out to be just a little romantic rivalry. Aww.. it's almost Cute!! Someone once said something like: "If Windows didn't exist, it would be neccessary for Apple to create it - apologies to Voltaire."
Can't wait to see some pouting little art-student-thing in her Diesel T trying to hide the fact she's _OMG!11#4! actually booting XP_ on her MacIntel while Radiohead stirs her latte. Oh rich is life.
Smart move by the way. While far from the best (and despite the booooring Intel monoculture), OSX is truly a better OS. Users will notice this.
I buy 100's of PC's at a time - Apple still needs to address $$$$$$$$.
michael dell must be grabbing his head right now..
Can't wait to see some pouting little art-student-thing in her Diesel T trying to hide the fact she's _OMG!11#4! actually booting XP_ on her MacIntel while Radiohead stirs her latte. Oh rich is life.
---
I dont know why you bother with this wacky stereotype.. The worst I ever saw was a bunch of slightly metro guys in the cafeteria huddled around a Powerbook
What 'subculture' doesn't like things that look nice, and work?
81.
What 'subculture' doesn't like things that look nice and work?
The subculture that thinks Apple no longer represent a transformational power of 'good'. They are comprised of people are just starting to get sick of bloody iPods and all the smug tacky techno-arianism that goes with it. And now that they truly have 'sold out' their aforementioned tech-ethic to a hardware monoculture (Intel), their political spin, one which attracted many 'subcultures' looks pretty blemished. Rightly so, why should Apple care, they are but a tiny 'segment of the market'.
Apple's hardware is, in fact, now no different from that of it's Windows shipping peers now. All Apple products are made either by Asustek of Quanta Computing in Taiwan how, companies responsible for around a third of all computer goods used in the western world. Apple's content better be good, because their form sure looks like the next guys... just another dumb old-school American multinational gleefully selling tickets to their show.
This is coming from someone who has greatly enjoyed Apple's products for many years in the past, but recently found bliss elsewhere.
Yeah I'm not so into this. I had a dual-core PowerMac G4, but it wasn't the design of the machine that hooked me, it was OSX, FinalCut Pro and other Mac software. Personally, I'd rather dual-boot my Intel PC with XP and OSX. I find the prospect of having the power of OSX and the value of its well designed software on a machine that costs half the price far more attractive than being able to put XP on an iMac which is over-priced, under-powered, and lacks extensive expandability.
IF YOU LOVE XP SO MUCH GET A DELL FOR ONLY $500 WITH WINDOWS XP DESIGNED FOR IT, WHY WASTE $350 ON ADDITIONAL XP SOFTWARE AND $2000 ON A IMAC
Can someone let me know if autocad/maya/rhino/any type of rendering.... runs smoothly on the MBP? Also if someone has the t60p, can they compare the two? I am interested how in open gl apps, the ati 1600 compares to the ati 5200. Thanks.
Can someone let me know if autocad/maya/rhino/any type of rendering.... runs smoothly on the MBP? Also if someone has the t60p, can they compare the two? I am interested how in open gl apps, the ati 1600 compares to the ati 5200. Thanks.
"Wasn't it the point of running OSX on a Mac is to get away from all of Windows flaws? Now running XP on a Mac doesn't make it any safer than running XP on any other Intel based PCs. In fact, it brings all of Windows flaws unto the Mac."
Yah right. Like OS X doesn't have its own set of flaws. I've been running OS X for a month and a half now on my MBP. I'm _NOT_ impressed with its stability for an OS that is theoretically 4 versions and 6 years old. OS X is just as buggy as XP just with different bugs. I've successfully caused a kernel panic in OS X by dragging multiple identical files from the spotlight window to the trash. I've routinely had the finder shell die on me at least 1.5 (average.) times for every 2 weeks of use. In short Apple damn well better clean up their act in Leopard because OS X feels like a XP SP1 released OS. Apple has fallen into the Microsoft way of doing things as far as I can see. Feature over fitness. Yes each OS has gotten faster. But still the weird behavior persists. Go to any support forum and you can see a list a mile long. For me what differentiates OSX's bugginess from XP's is that OS X's is much more in your face. Crap like weird behavior with WIFI. That makes you stop and try and figure out WTF is going on. Vs. alt-tab in XP where items only show up in alt-tab and not on the task bar. Hardly a show stopper but merely an annoyance. There are aspects of OS X I'm supremely impressed with and aspects that I loath (the biggest being no visible pathing info in finder.) just like any OS. Mac OS X isn't an OS touched by the hand of God. Its simply an OS just like Windows. Just with a little more polish in the security area, and better tweaked for the hardware it runs on. That is all.
I've give my right nut for Windows file explorer on OS X. That alone would drop the annoyance level by a good 60%. I know they have something out there. (Explorer X I think.) but its not integrated into the OS.
Now you can run XP and Linux INSIDE of Mac OS X! Please digg this story:
http://www.digg.com/apple/Parallels_Workstation_-_Use_Win_XP_Linux_INSIDE_Mac_OS_X_-_NOT_BootCamp
Installed XP on my Imac and so far only flaw is when I plug in my earphones to play Quake 4 for PC it does not mute the main speakers. Other than that everything else including my business applications I used with XP are all on my Imac and no flaws just lightning speed.
Anybody know how to get the isight working for skype using xp on an intel imac
Anybody know how to get the built in isight workin on xp for intel imac. I have installed boot camp but no isight.