French minister's response to Apple: "I don't want the crap."

French Trade Minister Christine Lagarde has hit back at Apple -- and critics of France -- in defending the country's proposed law on digital audio interoperability. In comments to reporters while visiting San Francisco, Lagarde declared that when "a company restricts competition ... it gets the attention of regulating agencies. We have to play by the rules of the game." Of course, it can be argued that Apple hasn't restricted competition, given the fact that there are a number of other companies operating online music stores and making digital audio players -- and that France is attempting to change the rules mid-game. Lagarde also had a message for those who have criticized French policies on the Apple issue and other recent developments: "I don't want the crap," she said. "It annoys me when France is portrayed as an awkward, backward country. It is not." Touché.

[My name @ Apr 14th 2006 9:45AM]

France not backwards? France accusing someone else of anti-competetive, anti-capitalistic meddling? That's rich.

[Whiplash @ Apr 14th 2006 9:45AM]

"It annoys me when France is portrayed as an awkward, backward country. It is not."

It is so. :-p

[EG @ Apr 14th 2006 9:48AM]

Just goes to show the backwardedness of the country when they fail to see the truth about France being a backward country. Typical French reaction. Don't mind that they wreack havock in their own country but please fence it in so the rest of the world isn't harmed.

[asshole @ Apr 14th 2006 9:49AM]

apple should hire a bunch of french people then fire them the next day, just to piss them off. and that bitch needs to shut up and eat some cheese. besides, in 5 years, france will be no more, it will be francistan.

[DMT @ Apr 14th 2006 9:51AM]

France finally grows some balls. It's only a matter of time Apple will be force to open up iTunes to other mp3 players.

[tomtom @ Apr 14th 2006 9:57AM]

American people are proud to be cowboys!!!!
In France we forgot cows for a while !!!!
you're just peasants !!!!

[Pip @ Apr 14th 2006 9:57AM]

More than likely, Apple will just not sell within France.

The record companies will not allow Apple to sell those songs without the DRM.

[The oL @ Apr 14th 2006 9:57AM]

I'm sorry, but I thought this was a good thing - what the french are trying to do. In the end its all about us, the consumers.

[DG @ Apr 14th 2006 10:01AM]

So many people busting on France so much of the time. None of you weren't alive during World War II, so what gives? Too much nutty TV?

Seems like France is on your side in this issue. You just want to call names? Boring.

[Alfredo Octavio @ Apr 14th 2006 10:05AM]

"French Trade Minister Christine Lagarde has hit back at Apple -- and critics of France -- in defending the company's proposed law on digital audio interoperability."

The company's proposed law? How sneaky on Apple part... Did they bought France?

Jokes aside I still think this law is over stated, it isn't that big a deal. Apple can easily create an AAC-to-Mp3 converter that only works when you connect Player A or B. It still would be more awkward than an iPod. Feance may be awkward by the way, but they are not backwards by any stretch of the imagination.

[G. Snyder @ Apr 14th 2006 10:13AM]

" None of you weren't alive during World War II, so what gives?"

My head hurts trying to even understand this sentence. None of you wern't alive ...I think that means all of us were alive? Hmmm.... even so, what is the point about WWII? I think you are trying to make some point, but obviously need some history lessons or something first.

Now that is boring.

[P! @ Apr 14th 2006 10:13AM]

France is an awkward and backward country... quit picking on Apple and go trade more food for oil!

[Arthur Barnhouse @ Apr 14th 2006 10:15AM]

"It annoys me when France is portrayed as an awkward, backward country. It is not."

Indeed, you can always tell that a country isn't backward or awkward when its youth have riots because they can be fired now. Reasonable hiring and firing practices are for losers.

[Tobor @ Apr 14th 2006 10:16AM]

I love Marc Perton's logic here. "Of course, it can be argued that Apple hasn't restricted competition, given the fact that there are a number of other companies operating online music stores and making digital audio players --"

So apparently, Microsoft never restricted competition either. After all, there were several other OS options available to me at the time.

[LD @ Apr 14th 2006 10:16AM]

France is very backwards. They have high unemployment then protest when the gov't attempts to alleviate that problem. Then their are successful in their protest, the gov't pulls out that part of the law, and they protest some more. All the while they guarantee no company will every hire anyone under age 26. That's backwards.

They also burn cars at a rate of 100 per night when they aren't protestiting. That's just fucking odd.

[pabjvar @ Apr 14th 2006 10:18AM]

Nice job France! At least somebody cared for consumer rights.... Apple doens't have any rights to protect their music... we as consumers have all the rights to do anything with all that music....

[charlie @ Apr 14th 2006 10:18AM]

How can you say that a country where no one uses deodorant and the women dont shave their armpits isnt backwards!!!

[Chris @ Apr 14th 2006 10:19AM]

How come nobody is calling for Microsoft to open up Windows Media video?

[Daniel Clausen @ Apr 14th 2006 10:21AM]

While I do think France is a backwards and awkward country I actually agree with them on this one. Though I am very inclined to disagree just because it is france.

[P @ Apr 14th 2006 10:22AM]

I think where France is heading is a good thing. From what I can tell they are trying to head off Apple from gaining so much market share that they can use anti-competetive tactics on the media companies... a la what Microsoft was sued for in the pc market. Being a conservative American, it's not often I side with France's take on things but they seem to me to be on the side of the consumer on this one.

[Razib Ahmed @ Apr 14th 2006 10:24AM]

Unfortunately, this place has become a fighting ground among supporters and opponents of France. We are forgetting the main issue and has turned it into a political battle. Microsoft is facing similar problem with European union and soon Apple may have similar problem with some other European countries. What we have to understand is that law is different in different countries and there should be a universal code about new inventions. Hurling abuse can benefit no one.

[Saluki @ Apr 14th 2006 10:25AM]

At least us Americans can watch with enjoyment as France's socialist nanny state slips further and further towards becoming the first third world country in Europe.(in a long time at least)

Somebody hand me a beer please

[charlie @ Apr 14th 2006 10:27AM]

just remember the only "side" that France is on is France's

They live in a state of delusion where they think france actually still matters.

[EG @ Apr 14th 2006 10:33AM]

Tomtom, nr 6, dude, try to look at the facts just for once and see the errors in your statement. Besides, not everybody here is American. I myself for instance am Dutch, live in Paris (!), watch French TV regularly (talking about nutty TV, nr 9, DG, start watching your own channels and be silent forever) and am amazed every day at the French attitude.

Oh, Charlie, there are definitely good things to say about France. Women shave their armpits nowadays for instance. And then you've got the... uhhh... wait... I'll think of something... now let's see... ;-)

[SemiLOOSE @ Apr 14th 2006 10:35AM]

finally france does something right!

mac does xp, time for itunes to do all other mp3 players

[gosh_d @ Apr 14th 2006 10:35AM]

it's interesting to see all of the comments about this being pro-consumer. these people are missing the point: this seemingly consumer-centric law is completely anti-competitive. when apple pulls out of the french market (i hope they do), consumers are left worse off. sure, it'd be *nice* if there was no such thing as drm, but restricting a private company from smart/neccessary business practices only screws the consumer in the end.

[charlie @ Apr 14th 2006 10:40AM]

SemiLoose, (NR 24)
I am assuming that when you say "finally france does something right!" you are referring to EG's (n23) statement that the french women finally shave their armpits?

[Anatoli Papirovski @ Apr 14th 2006 10:44AM]

"Nice job France! At least somebody cared for consumer rights.... Apple doens't have any rights to protect their music... we as consumers have all the rights to do anything with all that music...."

Oh, see, you're wrong there. Apple has all the rights to protect their music. You may not like it, but then you don't have to buy it. You buy a file from Apple that has DRM in it and also happens to have music data in it, you're not buying the song�you're not buying the full rights to the song or anything like that. People should understand the difference between an AAC from iTMS and a CD.

[narco @ Apr 14th 2006 10:48AM]

I don't particularly agree with what the French are trying to do here, but that response is awesome!

Fishes,
narco.

[Torontoguy @ Apr 14th 2006 10:49AM]

Let's see, France is a part of the EU. So when France forces iTunes to open their catalog to other MP3 players (a good thing when you think about it), the other EU states will follow.
In another EU state, the UK, when Apple Corp wins its lawsuit against Apple's trademark infringement that will effect iTunes in other EU countries as well.
Look what happened when Microsoft lost its case in the EU...they had to release a special version of Windows for Europe. I can see Apple having to release a EU specific version of iTunes which does not reference the Apple name AND will not require proprietary hardware to access. Apple will still get their 99 cents but will be able to collect it from more people.

[Emma @ Apr 14th 2006 10:52AM]

"Just goes to show the backwardedness of the country when they fail to see the truth about France being a backward country. Typical French reaction. Don't mind that they wreack havock in their own country but please fence it in so the rest of the world isn't harmed."

[tank @ Apr 14th 2006 10:55AM]

Tober tried: "I love Marc Perton's logic here. "Of course, it can be argued that Apple hasn't restricted competition, given the fact that there are a number of other companies operating online music stores and making digital audio players --"

So apparently, Microsoft never restricted competition either. After all, there were several other OS options available to me at the time."

They killed Netscape, pressured OEM manufacturers into excluding competing software, butchered Java, rewarded firms for promoting IE, etc. They abused monopoly power.

Apple created the pay per download music market. Since iTunes' inception, their business model has remained the same. Because of iTunes' success, the rest of the world jumped on board and now Apple needs to open up?!! Gimme a break!

The French are a bunch of losers. Their citizens aren't rioting because their precious iTunes music won't play on their precious iRiver.

This "B" may not "want the crap" but she deserves it.

[tank @ Apr 14th 2006 11:01AM]

gosh_d made a good point: "this seemingly consumer-centric law is completely anti-competitive. when apple pulls out of the french market (i hope they do), consumers are left worse off"

If Apple pulls out, will the French government support the iPod users who now have NO compatibility? Will they FORCE Napster to open up to Mac users and the iPod?

[G. Snyder @ Apr 14th 2006 11:02AM]

"So apparently, Microsoft never restricted competition either. After all, there were several other OS options available to me at the time."

Tobor, the difference is that MS basically strongarmed hardware vendors. Apple IS the hardware vendor. They can do what ever they want really. Apple is unique in the fact that it sells its own hardware, creates its own software and OS, and runs its own content distribution.

All of this whining is disgusting. It is a free market and will be driven by consumers. If consumers find the fact that they cannot fill their Creative Zen from iTunes that annoying, the market will eventually reflect that.

We do not live in a communist society. Apple has been sucessful with the iPod and their business model. Since when has success become a punishable offense?

[Baumann @ Apr 14th 2006 11:12AM]

How is the iPod/iTunes link ANY different then the mac/OSX link?

You have to buy an iPod to get iTunes to "work" with it.
You have to buy a mac to get OS X to "work" with it.

You have to buy Apple hardware to use Apple software. It's that simple. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere.

[jcg @ Apr 14th 2006 11:14AM]

[quote]21. At least us Americans can watch with enjoyment as France's socialist nanny state slips further and further towards becoming the first third world country in Europe.(in a long time at least)[/quote]
I'm still waiting for OPEC to change to Euros. Turning the US into a third world country overnight. Or when there is no more oil.

[Bill Tuttle @ Apr 14th 2006 11:15AM]

Typical French arrogance. France is all but a third-world country and is fast sliding that way. They want to believe they are still relavant to the rest of the world.

[bob @ Apr 14th 2006 11:17AM]

hoo hoooo, apple lovers v frenchies!
one lot are irrational, style driven ponces that wouldn't do well in a ruck, and the other are..erm.. ah.

[chad @ Apr 14th 2006 11:18AM]

#13 Arthur Barnhouse - You should actually read about the French labor law before you post saying it was trying to create fair hiring/firing practices. To me, being able to fire an employee unconditionally in the first two years doesn't seem exactly fair.

#17 Great argument. Clear and to the point. Clearly you only rely on facts when making your judgements.

[Antti @ Apr 14th 2006 11:20AM]

If this law would affect all of EU, Apple couldn't just stop selling music ei EU, the market is too big to lose.

[Jarod @ Apr 14th 2006 11:23AM]

To hell with the French; bunch of lazy ass, whiny socialist peasants!. Pull Itunes out of France; let them go F**K themselves and deal with more riots. Shows how 'forward thinking' the french are...just ask the people beating and breaking the shit out of everything in site on their streets.

[charlie @ Apr 14th 2006 11:24AM]

This can only be bad for the consumer. Apple uses iTunes as a tool to sell iPods. They have said publically to their shareholders that they never intended to make money with the iTunes store. If they force Apple to open up iTunes, chances are Apple will either just close down the service, or they'll start charging more for songs. For example, if the US government forced Apple to open iTMS here, maybe they would start selling songs for $1.29. God knows the record labels want them to.

[Sean @ Apr 14th 2006 11:24AM]

I don't understand France's logic here, iTunes will allow you to take any CD (either one you have bought or a burned copy of music purchased through the iTMS) and rip it to the computer that will be 100% compatible with OTHER MP3 players. There is no anti-competition, this is not Microsoft IE v. Netscape, this is a private company who has created the delivery platform (iTMS) for a third party product (music). The third party is demanding DRM, not Apple, and to top it off each and every person who buys a song on the iTMS agrees to the terms governing the download and accompanying DRM.

So France is not helping anyone and only once again showing their ignorance to free enterprise and capitalism. Next we'll hear the French gov't wants to mandate free downloads or price controls on iTMS products (if Apple doesn't leave the French market, which I think they will do).

[Baumann @ Apr 14th 2006 11:25AM]

To chad,

I live in Washington state. Here, companies are able to fire-at-will WHENEVER. No two year period, just whenever.

I think it makes perfect sense. If I'm a good worker, then I'll generate revenue for the company. If I'm doing that, then they logically shouldn't fire me. If I start losing money for the company then they should.

Logical exceptions are in cases of discrimination. However, in the US legal system you're innocent until proven guilty. Thus, the burden of proof should be held on the employee, not the company.

[Svante Richter @ Apr 14th 2006 11:28AM]

I am from sweden, and i have to say that a lot of you americans are incedibly stupid. this law is about making music usage open, which is what we all want, right?

And, another thing, people who think france is a backwards country should take a look at the US. you ignore the UN, refuse to pay your member fees to the WHO. Do you realy think that you should rule the world by yourself? these organisations are about the world beeing ruled by the world and not the US, and you spit in thier face!

talk about beeing backwards!

[Arochone @ Apr 14th 2006 11:30AM]

I'm glad France has finally realized that you should be able to, ya know, use the stuff you buy. It's about time. I just wish the rest of the world could figure it out.

[David T @ Apr 14th 2006 11:40AM]

"They killed Netscape, pressured OEM manufacturers into excluding competing software, butchered Java, rewarded firms for promoting IE, etc. They abused monopoly power.
Apple created the pay per download music market. Since iTunes' inception, their business model has remained the same. Because of iTunes' success, the rest of the world jumped on board and now Apple needs to open up?!! Gimme a break!"
>> they're still a monopoly in the pay per download market - and do you really think Apple doesn't pressure music labels to use iTunes? not a chance! SJ is the man setting the 99c pricing, NOT the labels (this has been well reported: just google it up). even (or even especially) since Apple created the market. you can't have your cake and eat it.

"Tobor, the difference is that MS basically strongarmed hardware vendors. Apple IS the hardware vendor. They can do what ever they want really. Apple is unique in the fact that it sells its own hardware, creates its own software and OS, and runs its own content distribution."
>> and Apple is strong arming the record labels and the consumers.

"this is a private company who has created the delivery platform (iTMS) for a third party product (music). The third party is demanding DRM, not Apple, and to top it off each and every person who buys a song on the iTMS agrees to the terms governing the download and accompanying DRM."
>> not so simple. Apple created, for what was quite some time (about 3 years now methinks), the only way for people to download songs legally. and Apple controls the entire process - not only iTMS but ALSO the iPod, which ALSO happens to have quite a monopoly on the music player market. sure, if you look at iTMS only, you're technically correct. but the implications are broader.

i know France is a weird country (to me!) and i think market forces would eventually have opened Apple up, especially with several viable alternatives out there. but i think the law is generally sound, especially as - don't forget - it affects EVERYBODY not just Apple.

[nojok3 @ Apr 14th 2006 11:43AM]

The French government are in the wrong in my opinion. Apple created iTunes to work solely with the iPod. My iriver mp3 software doesn't work with the iPod, it shouldn't be opened up. iTunes was made for the iPod, just because it was successful, doesn't mean it needs to be available to everyone. I may not have thought this all through, but is there a real reason they are even bothering doing this? No one is going to be hurt if everything stays the same, they've been OK since itunes first came out. The reason iTunes is so popular is because the iPod is so popular. You ask all the recent iPod rookies, none of them know about any of the iriver or creative products, but they know the ipod because everyone has it. Apple did a great job at making the iPod interesting to a mainstream audience, and now they should be punished? Geez...

[Svante Richter @ Apr 14th 2006 11:43AM]

Im sorry, but i have to write some more.

I america, if i dont get a job, i almost have to starve to death (a little exagurated). in france, sweden, norway, if i dont get a job, i get help from the gov. if i cant pay my medical bills, i dont have to walk around and slowly rot to death, i get help!
There is a reason why norway and sweden are the two highest ranked on the UN humanitarian index.

you americans, sure, you might have competition and capitalism and all of that, but drive out to the poor areas, the projects and you see the backside of it. do you want to have the lowest price, or lowest GINI coefficient?

[jared @ Apr 14th 2006 11:55AM]

France is right to complain, and Apple is right to stonewall them.

@33:
The difference is that OS X is Apple's content, but the music sold on the iTunes store is not. Limiting Apple's content to Apple's devices is totally reasonable, especially when the performance of the content is at least partially dependent on tight hardware integration.

Limiting a musician's content to Apple's hardware, even when sold through an Apple-owned and Apple-promoted channel, is less defensible. What are the consumer-visible "features" of FairPlay AAC DRM versus the "features" of other DRM schemes? There aren't any. The principle feature of a DRM scheme vs. another is only visible on the Microsoft/Apple side of the equation: the security side is (at this point) a red herring; cross-format incompatibility IS the featureset.

The strange (and somewhat damning) part of this is that by refusing to license FairPlay to other companies, or to support PlaysForSure on the iPod or in iTunes.app, Apple is revealing some lack of faith in the basic iPod design and features.

To those of you who scrutinize every device's battery life, etc, that makes some sense. But from a gut-level product desirability standpoint, the pandora's box of iPod demand is wide open and not in danger of closing. Apple could license FairPlay, support PlaysForSure, and still rule the online music business and consumer mp3 player markets. For once, they're the VHS and everyone else is the Betamax.

So why is it okay for Apple to stonewall on this? Because for the time being, their engineers have bigger shit to worry about than making PlaysForSure work on the iPod, or accepting a deluge of FairPlay implementation support questions from iRiver and whoever else comes knocking for a FairPlay license.

If people are still complaining 10 quarters from now (and they will be), maybe it'll be time for Apple to give a little.