Philips patent app would force you to watch commercials, both live and recorded

In a move that would surely delight advertisers but enrage consumers, Philips is trying to patent a method for flagging digital TV content to not only prevent viewers from changing the channel during commercials in live broadcasts, but to actually lock out fast-forwarding capabilities during ads in recorded programs as well. Even worse, the patent specifically applies to the already widely-deployed Multimedia Home Platform (MHP) middleware system standard, meaning that many Europeans' current TVs would be susceptible to these Orwellian controls. Since the US version of this platform, OCAP, is largely based on the MHP architecture, it's not a stretch to imagine such flagging being applied to American sets as well. Although we're certain that a workaround would be developed if Philips' evil plan ever actually materializes, just the thought of our DVRs going impotent is enough to fill us with fear and trepidation.

Update 1: Reader Paul B, who also happened to chair the group that wrote the MHP PVR specification, writes to inform us that "there is no such flag as standard in the spec. Philips could add one as a Philips-specific flag but it wouldn't apply to the other manufacturers. Secondly, as currently specificed there is no way for an MHP application to take control of the channel switching function, so changing channels always works." There you have it folks; it seems that all your MHP-equipped gear is safe -- for now.

Update 2: Royal Philips Electronics, ever mindful of their Engadget-reading customers, had this to say in a note to us: "(Philips) filed a patent application, as yet not granted, that enables watching a television movie without advertising. However, some people do want to see the ads. So, we developed a system where the viewer can choose, at the beginning of a movie, to either watch the movie without ads, or watch the movie with ads. It is up to the viewer to take this decision, and up to the broadcaster to offer the various services. Philips never had the intention to force viewers to watch ads against their will and does not use this technology in any current Philips products, nor do we have any plans to do so."

[Via New Scientist]

[Xultar @ Apr 18th 2006 2:25PM]

Then they'll have to follow me to the bathroom.

[Ryan @ Apr 18th 2006 2:27PM]

I'm anti Phillips now.

[Matt @ Apr 18th 2006 2:28PM]

Wow, if Hollywood implemented such a system, I would simply stop watching TV altogether and just watch DVDs and play video games.

[Alex @ Apr 18th 2006 2:29PM]

Actually, adding metadata to flag the start and end of commercial breaks would make it considerably easier to create a hacked device that skipped the commercials entirely. If you look at it that way, this is good news.

[Mojo Yugen @ Apr 18th 2006 2:29PM]

So why doesn't Phillips just send out a press release saying: "Please don't buy any more of our products again. We hate you. We really really hate you."

[mkl @ Apr 18th 2006 2:34PM]

So, every time you're channel surfing and land on an ad, you have to stop and wait for that ad (and any that follow it) to finish and the program to resume, before you can switch to another channel. Really, really smart.

[thispaceforsale @ Apr 18th 2006 2:39PM]

You've got to admit it's getting better, a little better all the time.

[shelly @ Apr 18th 2006 2:39PM]

sadly, this makes me want to keep my analog crt untill the day they cut the plug, and then just use it for mediocre game consoles and movies.
-michael

[Robert Brodrecht @ Apr 18th 2006 2:42PM]

Wow. I might have to go back to the old days when I would record my favorite show while I watched it and pressed "pause" on my VCR when commercials came on...

[Alcaron @ Apr 18th 2006 2:43PM]

The solution is SIMPLE...dont watch TV.

Seriously, you wont die without it I promise, and you MIGHT just find books or even movies (to a MUCH lesser extent) to be enriching and not just "a way to pass time".

Not being able to change channels is just pure BS. So...I just wont watch TV anymore... :)

[dansgil @ Apr 18th 2006 2:47PM]

This is ridiculous. How would anyone be able to channel surf? If anything, this would lower the number of people who watch commercials. People would get frustrated and would just leave the room to do something else while the ads were on.

I sincerely hope this technology isn't ever implemented.

-DG

[Riptide @ Apr 18th 2006 2:51PM]

I think that all this digital flag BS is actually a subtle way to get lazy people off their fat ass and actually do something. I don't have Cable, and I don't intend to get it any time soon. My kids are fine watching a DVD's over and over again, and I much prefer to not grow any wider than I already have. Honestly, the Internet has replaced the television industry in butt sitage though. Where is this world heading?

[Topmounter @ Apr 18th 2006 3:04PM]

I WOULD QUIT WATCHING TELEVISION FOREVER.

[slow news day @ Apr 18th 2006 3:07PM]

Prevent changing the channel?

If this were to come to pass, I'd probably stop watching TV.

[Chase M. @ Apr 18th 2006 3:13PM]

So they are going to FORCE me to sit through those awkward tampon/yeast infection commercials with my parents... great.

[Stellar Developer @ Apr 18th 2006 3:16PM]

WHAT ARE YOU ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT!!!!?!?! We all just need to sit and think about the situation first. Now someone tell me... What the hell is this TV they keep referring to?

[Jvijil @ Apr 18th 2006 3:22PM]

This rubish won't be implemented. It just doesn't make sense. Look at all the comments of people have said about not watching the tely anymore.

[Emceay @ Apr 18th 2006 3:24PM]

I'm with #10:Alcaron. Television's hated us since before I can remember. Not watching it if probably the best response to advertisement force-feeding. Not being able to change the channel is the worst, now when they say "don't touch that dial" they'll mean it. Meh, I don't see much of a difference, I already shut off the box when Carlos Mencia (Ned Holness) starts trying to beat dysconscious racial stereotypes into my head. Now when the day comes when I can't turn off Carlos. That's the day I stop watching forever.

[Eli @ Apr 18th 2006 3:25PM]

I think I'll keep doing what I've been doing - downloading TV shows with the commercials already removed.

I pay for basic cable, I think that entitles me to downloading TV shows I could watch if I felt like turning on my TV (that hasn't even been plugged in since I moved in).

[Chris Green @ Apr 18th 2006 3:25PM]

This is funny. Just try. My wife and I love our DVR so much that we rarely watch tv without one (hotels, out of town, etc.) It's just too painful to have to watch commercials, to the point of not watching anything at all. Good luck through, Phillips. You'll need it.

[rodJoh. @ Apr 18th 2006 3:26PM]

Funny... so then you will be able to change it only when the actual show is running? That sucks. Besides... if I happen to be zapping around will I have these annoying pauses just cuz of commercials?

Way to go Phillips

[Frankenstein Black @ Apr 18th 2006 3:29PM]

DONT WATCH TV? Alcaron (#10) - ARE YOU NUTS MAN?! Don�t you know that it is the window to this Matrix�ed world that I look upon from the warm embrace of my pink bubble?
- I like the �false reality� that is fed to me each and every day.
- I like the cold warmth and fane safety that �the machine� provides.
- I like the daily mega-doses of ignorant bliss that is American Idol and Flava of Love.
- I like the Radio & TV �Agent Smiths� that infuses the directive into my infantile psyche.
- I like the �blue pills� that sits in my cabinet next to �other pills� that I consume daily.

Don�t you see? A forced commercial is just another download and proof that we are all simply batteries that fuel the machine. Now shut up, be content and consume. READ YOU SAY?! HOW DARE YOU SIR ;^)...

[Kamalot @ Apr 18th 2006 3:30PM]

I already gave up TV. I got an HDTV ready projector for DVD movies and playing video games. I enjoy a lot more of my time now. Once away from TV I realize how bad it really is.

[Antonio @ Apr 18th 2006 3:31PM]

The next step would be to create a couch that holds you down and pulls your eyelids open while the commercials are on.
I think KFC had the best idea: An incentive to watch their commercials. Bad Phillips.

[happy gilmore @ Apr 18th 2006 3:35PM]

yeah right... this will never happen. so people will be paying $50-120 per month to a cable company and be forced to watch advertisements? i think not.

now, on the other hand, if the cable companies would pay me say, $300/mo, i'll watch the commercials.

[Jake @ Apr 18th 2006 3:42PM]

This will never, ever be implemented. Imagine the boycotts. The power is the people's.

And if it does: Steve Jobs passes Gates as the richest man in the world as 100 million shows are downloaded from iTunes EVERY DAY. And Philips get none of that action.

[Cowboy @ Apr 18th 2006 3:45PM]

That'll be a good excuse to quit watching TV altogether...

[Mark G @ Apr 18th 2006 3:47PM]

Wow, what a great idea. I wonder if they can patent a leg chains and handcuffs that will automatically prevent you from getting up to take a leak during commericals as well.

[Lita @ Apr 18th 2006 3:47PM]

Max Headroom called. He wants his society back.

[Dr. Benway @ Apr 18th 2006 3:49PM]

This will kill television.

In the EU, it's illegal to show ads any more than every 15 minutes, and they can't last for more than 2 minutes. Last time I checked, TV was actually watchable there.

There were similar laws in the US, but they dropped them (in the 80s, I think). The response to too many annoying ads was TiVo and all the other DVRs.

The TV advertisers have already caused major damage to their own industry. An arms race will put them out of business altogether. Time to buy shares in DoubleClick, methinks.

[The Driver @ Apr 18th 2006 3:51PM]

Okay for their commercials you could have a rich man who has what he needs because he was once poor but saved his money and was responsible. His system alows him to fast forward through all ads.

Then you could have a man who is bankrupt but has every useless acessory in the world including one of every mp3 player and one of every burger king burger ever made. His system does not allow you to fast forward through commercials. He gets very bored and often hurts himself during commercials or runs around. Or eats a lot.

Then the screen will back out and white letters fade in saying "Phillips, shittin on the little guy"

[Thill @ Apr 18th 2006 3:52PM]

I'm with #4.. If they implemented this, someone would hack this technology so fast, it would not even matter. I don't even watch "live" TV anymore (I skip all the commercials with my DVR) except for sporting events. Phillips is an evil corporation....

[Richard @ Apr 18th 2006 3:56PM]

I don't see why Ad people haven't figured it out how to do commercial for people who fast forward. Just show a permenanent stuff at the bottom or the side. In a 30 seconds spot, even at 8x fast forward the same image will be there at the bottom for almost 4 seconds. They just need something that will grab the viewer to make him want to go back to the beginning of the commercial. When people fast forward, people look more intensely at the screen to make sure they don't miss the beginning of the show.

[airpolgas @ Apr 18th 2006 3:57PM]

If this pushes through, people will stop watching TV altogether. People will not stop watching TV shows, they will just change mediums. They will get rid of their subscriptions to Dish/DirecTV/cable,[insert your provider here], etc. and just replace them with a faster broadband and go torrent 100%. I dare them implement this, because it will just force the consumers to pursue "illegal stuff" faster.

[Evie @ Apr 18th 2006 3:59PM]

I already rarely watch TV because of the crappy shows and ads. This will just make me not watch any TV at all. There are millions of people like me who will simply not watch TV/ Or will Philips also ensure that the OFF button is permanently ON? Have they ever heard of Bittorrent? iTunes and similar Internet sites that offer TV show downloads?

[Sean @ Apr 18th 2006 4:01PM]

And before you know it. It will be illegal to turn off your television alltogether. Sort of like "Max Headroom"

[Mike @ Apr 18th 2006 4:02PM]

You Philips fuckers are pieces of shit. Your products SUCK and apparently so do you all personally. I'm wishing you all Anal Cancer right now...

[SideSwipe @ Apr 18th 2006 4:06PM]

Philips is changing their slogan from "Sense and Simplicity" to "Control and Obey".

[TVbuff @ Apr 18th 2006 4:06PM]

It's probably a long ways away, but it could happen. In the early days of TV, there were no commercials. Commercials slowly crept in and increased in lengh/frequency ever since. It's not that far fetched. People didn't boycott TVs in mass when commercials began to popup in the first place years ago. Society as a whole might not band together in protest when they are 'forced' to watch commercials. Heck, don't non-techies, non-TIVOites still sit there (or do laundry) during commercials anyway?

[Joe @ Apr 18th 2006 4:08PM]

can't we just start patenting all this new drm stuff ourselves and sue anyone who actually implements it?

[emm @ Apr 18th 2006 4:08PM]

if they impliment this, everyone will boycott philips and if not, they will find a way to hack it. if this comes out, ill bet it will be a week untill someone comes out with a hack.

[Chris Johnson @ Apr 18th 2006 4:12PM]

You've all got it totally wrong. Phillips is your friend. By patenting this they've assured us that nobody else can do this without first getting a license from them and paying a fee. If I were Phillips I'd simply refuse to license the technology and everyone would be happy.

Yeah, that's it.

Oops - I forgot my sarcasm tags!

[o rly @ Apr 18th 2006 4:12PM]

@ 23 / Jake : "And if it does: Steve Jobs passes Gates as the richest man in the world as 100 million shows are downloaded from iTunes EVERY DAY. And Philips get none of that action."

It might be wise to see how much money Steve Jobs makes off the iTunes Music Store and their downloads before you comment on him surpassing Bill Gates as the richest man in the world. GIYF.
Besides the fact that TV shows downloaded off iTMS are in a crappy DRM'd format at a crappy resolution (320 x 240 looks GREAT on my TV & monitor! ...no wait, it doesn't, especially since the files can't be burned to DVD through iTunes and having the video full screen on my monitor causes pixelation (it seems I need a smaller TV or monitor, maybe 2.5 inch with 4:3 AR))


@ 24 / Thill : "Phillips is an evil corporation...."

Philips is the same company that was against using copy-protected discs with the Compact Disc (Audio/Data) logo; along with wanting every "CD" (and jewel case) with copy protection branded with a skull & cross bones or poison logo to warn potential customers; was opposed to audio copy protection in general; was going to refuse licensing of the Compact Disc logo to any company using copy protection on audio discs; is a major reason why many CDs today have the "this disc is copy protected" message on them to warn customers; and they were developing CD writers that would circumvent copy protection. ...evil corporation? Not more than any other corporation that you're a fanboy of.

[Michael @ Apr 18th 2006 4:15PM]

Simple - just don't buy the fuckin hardware.

Manufacturers would change course as quick as they could imagine their revenue stream drying up.

Anyways, I doubt something like this would even get passed the focus groups.

[Raymond @ Apr 18th 2006 4:16PM]

what? next they'll be saying we can't mute during the commercials, or turn the tv off until the show comes back on.

[Spoonman @ Apr 18th 2006 4:25PM]

Meh, won't affect me in the least. I'll continue to just download the shows I want to watch via Bittorrent. By the time all this crap comes down the pike, it'll be cracked a week later, so I won't miss anything. If it's not cracked, I won't watch. Either way, I win, they lose.

[naive contrarian @ Apr 18th 2006 4:27PM]

OK it is possible that they are simply trying to patent this to prevent a separate evil company from actually trying to implement it ;-)

[Adam @ Apr 18th 2006 4:28PM]

Would this only make you watch laxative commercials?

Get it? Phillips Laxative????? Ok, that sounded funnier in my head.

[D @ Apr 18th 2006 4:30PM]

To the screaming masses,

This is just a patent application; it's not a law, it's not a product, it's just an idea that they are hoping is unique. So the chicken littles can calm down about the sky.

It's worth remembering that that vast vast majority of patents do not become commerical products.

/Side bar: is it just me or have Engadget "headlines" become more incendiary? This one isn't the worst, but it got a lot of people to scream and yell over what is fact a very insigificant thing (a patent app is like someone saying "I want to run for president" it doesn't mean they will be anything)

[Christy Werder @ Apr 18th 2006 4:31PM]

This is actually funny. Now I can go do something else during the advertisements while listening for the program to begin again. Thanks for giving me the chance to multi-task during my so-called time to relax.