As the
first HD DVD players finally make their way to stores, The Man Room wasted no time in going out and buying one to test
it out. Well, actually, it looks like the reviewer wasted a little time, since he had to call no fewer than four Best
Buy outlets to find one that actually had a Toshiba HD-A1 in stock -- or even knew what he was talking about (one
clerk's comment was a simple "What is it?"). But by last Friday, when each Best Buy was supposed to have
three of the units in stock, he was able to set out and make the purchase. So, what did he find? Well, besides the
massive player we've already seen, he discovered an equally bulked-up remote, the HDMI cable and a pitch from NetFlix
(hey, you've gotta get those discs somewhere, right?). Of course, all of that is incidental to the real question: how
did the video look? Well, we're not sure we're going to get a straight answer here, since this early reviewer didn't
have any HD DVD discs, and ended up using the player to watch upscaled standard DVDs. We'll cut him some slack, given
the paucity of HD DVD offerings out so far. So, is it worth $500 to rush out and buy one of these? If you've been
waiting for the chance to watch, er, "The Last Samurai" in true HD, you already know the answer. If not,
you've probably already missed your chance to pick up one of those three HD-A1s from your local Best Buy, so kick back
with your over-the-air, cable or satellite HD, and let someone else fight the format war for you.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ChuChu @ Apr 18th 2006 10:17AM
Call me crazy but I am forecasting a slow adoption rate for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray, PS3 notwithstanding.
Mark Naylor @ Apr 18th 2006 10:32AM
"If you've been waiting for the chance to watch, er, "The Last Samurai" in true HD..."
Is this movie a true HD movie? For it to be true HD, doesn't it have to be filmed with an HD camera? Or do they simply resample the orignal film? What does the Discovery Channel use to film their HD material?
Andreas @ Apr 18th 2006 10:34AM
I'm interested in the PS3 as a BlueRay movie player. I just pray for a hi quality machine, and not like the crap PS2 dvd player.. which eh... sucks.. What were they thinking??? Oh well...
Craig @ Apr 18th 2006 10:35AM
Adoption will completely depend on pricing. I don't believe most video consumers will be willing to pay significantly more for PQ better than current DVDs offer. And that goes for the PS/3, too -- a $700 game system is DOA.
Chris Heinonen @ Apr 18th 2006 10:35AM
So, both a bad review and a bad blurb at Engadget about the bad review. Things that were bad:
- Picking 1080i instead of 720p for the output mode on the DVD player. He has a 720p native projector, he should pick 720p to match, otherwise the discs he wants to watch are being converted twice (1080p to 1080i to 720p) and losing extra detail.
- Engadget mentioning that he can't judge about the resolution since he has DVI. He has DVI with HDCP, which will work exactly the same as HDMI for taking an image from this player. It can't carry audio, but his projector can't deal with audio anyway, and using a DVI to HDMI adapter shouldn't cause any loss in image quality.
Really, a guy can afford to go spend $500 on the DVD player but can't even set the correct output for his own projector? Just sad.
Steve Pick @ Apr 18th 2006 10:41AM
Also note he didn't actually view any HD-DVDs, only tested the upsampling of the unit to compare it to his Momitsu upconverting player. Of course it should really only look a 'tad sharper', both are upconverting 480 lines.
It's not a test of HD-DVD at all so far.
Greg @ Apr 18th 2006 10:49AM
The reviewer didnt even view an HD DVD title...whats up with taht?
I have the player and 3 titles, the display is awesome. Significantly better than a standard DVD player. The new menu system is a major improvement over DVD. You can now select the menus while the DVD is HD-DVD is playing. In other words, while you are watching a movie, you can select the "Menu" button and the extra content and menu selections overlay the video, so you can select "Directors Comments" and turn this on and off while not interupting the movie. You can also scan thru the chapter selections while playing, see exactly where you are in the movie, etc.
Even better, you now have a "Bookmark" option to create bookmarks at various spots in the movie and easily go back to those points. For me, these features alone justify the price of admission.
TrikinCurt @ Apr 18th 2006 10:59AM
Movies are done on film and then transferred. They don't use digital projectors for film, it is all analog.
Looks like my first VHS circa 1979 @ Apr 18th 2006 11:03AM
Bought at Sears or Macy's for $500
Tristan @ Apr 18th 2006 11:03AM
I'm not rushing out to buy one of these but can we get a decent review? What was he comparing? If he's going to make statements about it only being slightly sharper I want him that he used the Last Samurai DVD and HD-DVD to compare. Bad post Engadget.
pete @ Apr 18th 2006 11:15AM
4 -
Toshiba has stated that the player always be set to output the res that matches the source material on the disc. For HD-DVD this should always be 1080i.
The reason for this is to make the scaler in your display do the scaling as the scaler in the HD-A1 is reportedly "weak".
As for this review, it is crap, and, I'm sorry, but the post is crap as well.
He's basically reviewing the HD-A1's upscaling ability, and the post here says nothing about that. Please amend your post as it is inaccurate.
Mr. Perton, if you don't know that the DVI=HDMI as far as video is concerned, maybe you shouldn't be writing posts about this tech.
Mike @ Apr 18th 2006 11:23AM
Projectors and many projection sets won't really show off how good true HD looks because the pixels are blown up.
Hook the player to a solid fixed-pixel display like a Plasma or LCD panel... then do a comparison.
Tim Wilson @ Apr 18th 2006 11:25AM
This is the review
Quote:
Since the official debut of HD-DVD is Tuesday, May 18, I was unable to score one of the four actual HD-DVD launch titles to test out (see below for links to details on those titles). That test will happen within the next 48 hours. In the meantime I did pop in both Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith and Paramounts upcoming Aeon Flux to see how up-converting on the HD-A1 compares to my now old Momitsu. Both units offer a much sharper up-converted 1080i image compared to a 480p resolution coming from Xbox 360 (see below for a digital snapshot of the HD-A1 playing Revenge of the Sith). Differences between the Momitsu and Toshiba to my naked eye on a 118 screen were minimal at best. The Toshiba on some scenes is a hair sharper and brighter over the Momitsu but only when scrutinized for imperfections. Anyone who does pick up this player and has never owned a 1080i up-converting DVD player before will be pleasantly surprised at the improvements. The bigger the display device, the more apparent the improvements will be.
from that engaget got
Quote:
However, since the discs he picked up weren't hampered by the Image Constraint Token, he was able to get full 720p and 1080i output. That said, the reviewer still found the output only "a hair sharper" than that he got from upsampled 480p DVDs using a Momitsu upconverting player. So, is that "hair" worth $500?
Either the Engaget author is unable to read or he is lieing and being deliberatly misleading.
Marc Perton I'll give you the benfit of the doubt and assume you misunderstood the review assuming you change your article. Otherwise it looks like you are bias in someway.
Brian @ Apr 18th 2006 11:41AM
Quite possibly one of the worst posts I've ever seen on Engadget. Marc has no clue what he is even writing about or reviewing, and then at the end he tells us to forget about HD-DVD altogether. I don't really care which format wins, but I don't need a Blu-Ray fanboy posing as an engadget writer.
The1 @ Apr 18th 2006 11:56AM
I do not want to become an early adopter. However, if I go to ABTelectronics this weekend, I may get it. My issue is that will this work on my current HDTV through the HDMI port. I thought all the current GEN HDTV's were useless?
Dave @ Apr 18th 2006 11:56AM
So what are my options if my TV has DVI only ... not HDMI? What's the best resolution/output I'll be able to get with a converter?
hmurchison @ Apr 18th 2006 12:02PM
That "review" was horrible. Engadget should be embarrassed for even vouching for this.
eisenb11 @ Apr 18th 2006 12:24PM
Dave,
All you need is a simple DVI/HDMI adapter.
If you don't have DVI-HDCP, however, you will be hosed if the flag is enforced.
Jeff @ Apr 18th 2006 12:30PM
Man, the level of hostility in some of the comments here is amazing.
People make mistakes. It happens. Get over it.
The fact is this is the first hands-on of *any* kind with this player that a lot of us have seen (including me). Was it basically useless? Yeah, it was, in terms of a real video comparison. But it's still the first time I've seen the remote, or heard about the lengthy bootup time, etc.
I think the decision to post the link was fine. The description of the review was not, but you know what? Whatever. If you're gonna get all bent out of shape about this, then let's just say you're probably not the kind of person I want to be sitting next to on a bus, that's for sure.
Jordan @ Apr 18th 2006 12:37PM
Why such hostility guys??
Yes, Marc obviously does not know as much about HDCP, HD-DVD etc. as some of us, but all he is doing is informing us. Yes the post should be edited but it is not fair to call this the worst post ever on Engadget. This is simply a careless error that can be easily fixed.
Marc you should change your post or make up for it with a new post from a credible reviewer that is actually running a HD-DVD through his setup. The first ones should be floating around the Web anytime now.
John Wentworth @ Apr 18th 2006 12:49PM
Jeff -
I agree with what you say about the hostility that some posters are exhibiting, but come on, this is what Engadget purports to focus on! This isn't Luxist or TUAW, making a quick post about something outside their scope...
- I agree that the decision to post this link is just fine. It's an early hands-on, which people are interested in. But...
- ... it should have been *framed* as such. A simple "Hey guys, here's an early test of an HD-DVD player. Sadly, no HD-DVD media was available for him to look at, but he's got some interesting notes about bootup time, menu options, and how the upscaling fares against the popular Momitsu unit." See how easy that was?
Unfortunately, the poster decided to attempt to add his own two cents, (obviously) without knowing some of the basics of the industry.
The hostility here is due to an (apparent) lack of interest in the accuracy of this post. Will I still visit Engadget multiple times a day? Definitely, as this post is the exception and not the rule. Does that mean we should overlook these problems as they arise? Only if Engadget isn't interested in becoming better.
hmurchison @ Apr 18th 2006 1:08PM
Hostility?
Folks there's only so much time in the day to get your info. Engaget is a resource to us and frankly if poor information is what you receive then you're less likely to come back. I know this is an anomaly but like a child that needs to be scolded we need to voice our displeasure at reading a half-baked review. Especially when a recommendation is attached to it. Regards. HM
KeithP @ Apr 18th 2006 1:23PM
I am going to have to agree with the others criticizing this lead-in. It is grossly misleading and should be changed. I expect better from Engadget.
-KeithP
James @ Apr 18th 2006 1:44PM
I have been playing with my HD-A1 for a while now. The upconverting is phenomenal, some of the best I've ever seen.
The HD is even better - and this is counterintuitive, but you WANT to set the player to 1080i, even on a 720p display. This is because the discs are 1080p and the player handles that better. Don't ask, just enjoy how much better it looks.
The sound is awesome as well - though you have to use 5.1 analog or HDMI to get the DD+ or DD True HD tracks. The Coaxial and TOSLINK Optical digital connecitons can only carry down-converted DD+ as DTS.
Unit reacts a little slowly to input unfortunately. Opening it up, it's a NEC PC HD-DVD drive along with a motherboard and gig of ram.
I'm very happy with the purchase, not only are my SD-DVDs better, but I can check out the new HD releases.
TimothyB @ Apr 18th 2006 1:48PM
If not commented yet, if you have a 720p tv, you still set the player to match the disc, in this case 1080i for all current releases, you don't set it to match the display, you want the 720p tv to recieve the 1080i signal and downscale itself. Setting the player to 720p for a 1080i movie does something odd where it looks only a bit better than a normal dvd. This could be because it possible just brings 1080i down to 540p then upscales it to 720p.
All stores have been using some Westing display, which most have commented made the player look horrible, while moving it to a 50"+ Pioneer Plasma or Sony SXRD made a huge difference.
AlanP @ Apr 18th 2006 1:54PM
The hostility is justified because Engadget, and therfore the writer, get money from advertisers and advertiseres get their money from us, the consumer.
While i accept this is a blog and not a traditional news service, the writers owe it to us not to try and serve their own agenda (in this case supporting blu-ray) through grossly misleading posts such as this.
Since we pay thier wages we have every right to forcefully voice our complaints, especially to this type of post.
Brad @ Apr 18th 2006 2:04PM
I also picked one of these units up yesterday and am blown away. I had huge expectations and they were surpassed, and just to make sure I wasn't trying to rationalize the $500 purchase and just making myself think that they video looked amazing, I used my father as a test subject.
On a Sharp DT-400 (or Z-2000) player I had the LG LDA-511 on one input and the HD-A1 on another, and he was equally blown away when I switched over to the HD-DVD player. from sitting 7 or 8 feet away from a 115" screen, pixelation was not even a problem. The movie compared was the DVD and HD-DVD versions of The Last Samurai.
The only thing that really pisses me off is that Warner decided to have a demo before the presentation on TLS disk which showed The Matrix and Batman Begins in HD. Those release dates could not come soon enough and I will be waiting at midnight at Walmart to pick them up.
Ladyfox @ Apr 18th 2006 3:13PM
What I do not understand is why someone would go out and spend $500+ for the chance to buy their entire video library again. I mean, the only reason we hopped on the DVD wagon was due to the subtantial benefits it offered over Laserdisks and VHS.
With HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray you get an admitted sharper picture than currently available on DVD with a few gew-gaws features. Beyond that, you get a whole pile of downsides:
a. Have to go out and buy the same film again to take advantage of the sharper picture and other features. Hello quadruple-dipping! :(
b. All movies currently projected to come out over the next few months are already available on DVD at a much lower price point.
c. Provides a very marginal improvement in image quality compared to other up-converting DVD players currently available at much lower price points.
d. The loss of control over video quality output in the near future (this could be removed providing someone creates a workaround that will not result in the one-way trip to Club Fed).
Or is there something I'm missing here beyond the "pretty picture" aspect?
Ben Hobbs @ Apr 18th 2006 3:21PM
I'm yet to hear people who bought the Toshiba say its bad, although some people I think perhaps have been spoilt previously with some OTA HD or good cable broadcasts, which kind of diminished the wow factor.
I don't really mind which format comes through, but at $500 for the entry player and 6-9 months earlier than Blu-Ray, I think HD DVD has made some real steps.
I know of several "I'm waiting for Blu-Ray" people who just havent been able to wait and rushed out and bought the Toshiba unit the day of release. If enthusiasts have trouble waiting even a few days, how are they gonna wait for 6 months+ for Blu-Ray?
Before the PS3 fanboys show up - I simply can't believe that it will feature; Blu-Ray, Dual 1080P output, Playstation 1 and 2 compatability, First consumer cell CPU, producing a million units a month - sorry just dont see it myself, too many firsts.
Robert @ Apr 18th 2006 3:28PM
Ok there are few issues with HD-DVD and they are not all negative, well one kinda is and isn't.
1. The HD-DVD player is bascally a computer. So it's boot up time is a little longer then the a regular player. As someone has stated, the drive itself is an NEC drive for your PC. Plus, it's the 1st consumer player for a new format.
2. The image quality is going to be effected by the actual display unit moreso then ever before. If you have a cheap 30 inch LCD display, you're not going to see much of an improvement, but look at the same picture on a pioneer and you will be blown away. Is it the player's fault? No, it's that the display has to be up to snuff to show off the details of the new format.
I'm not a fanboy of either format, in so much that I'm willing to wait (pray really) for a dual player. Also, if you want some GOOD information on the new player go to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/
they have many poeple with hands on experience that know what they're doing.
Brad @ Apr 18th 2006 3:35PM
Ladyfox: This isn't exactly a budget player, so I would think the customers buying these don't really mind buying their favorite titles from their collection again. For me, it's like a new experience at home. Going from watching blocky upconverted dvds to being able to see the detail you would almost never see on a dvd
SPOILER:
(such as the detailed look of concern on Ken Watanabe's face in TLS when his son dies),
it is like a new experience to watch these movies again. Granted I never really bought a lot of movies because they didn't look very good on my display, this opens lots of options for me. I am very happy, but if I had an HD set that was smaller then 40" then there is no way I would have bought one of these as the difference between this and dvd would not have been as substantial as it is on larger displays.
Robert @ Apr 18th 2006 3:41PM
Oh and I forgot to add that never before the actual way a movie was shot will effect the way it looks on HD. Looking at the current HD channels available, I think more people say that a show or event shot in video will look better then one shot on film. Here's an example, live HD events like Baseball look fantastic next to a movie that was shot on film. Want to know why? Film grain is often mistaken for quality flaws that are blamed on the either the master DVD/recording or the signal itself (satt or cable).
Chris @ Apr 18th 2006 5:28PM
I also bought this unit yesterday, and I think a lot of people are missing the point. I'll skip the attacks on Engadget. Hopefully, they post a real review, and I'm only offended if they are somehow "pro-Blu-ray" instead of just passing on information. Mistakes happen.
1) I have a 73" Mitsu DLP at 1080p and The Last Samurai looks phenomenal. I don't mean 10% better, I mean 200% better. It's just amazing, and I'm sure it will only get more amazing. The Batman Begins preview was unreal. If you still don't understand what a difference HD is over standard DVD, you just haven't seen it right yet.
2) You don't need to rebuy all of your movies. Seriously, if you have hundreds of DVDs like me, you know you will never watch most of them again. I'm keeping TV box sets on DVD (for now, maybe get some of my favorites later in HD). The picture on these is now better with the upconversion. I'm keeping a lot of my favorite movies on DVD for now as they play fine (better) here. I'm getting movies that are effects-heavy that I like on HD-DVD when it comes out. I have an XBox 360, and I think Microsoft was genius not to wait for either HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I will likely also buy a Playstation 3, but I have to say, I don't think that's where this is all going. Sony is notorious for losing format wars no matter how much better some people think they are in advance. I think Blu-Ray will be the game format for the PS3, and I think HD-DVD will win out in the movie world.
I don't think this is extremely complicated stuff. People are acting like no one should buy this. My favorite is "it will be the next laserdisc." Makes no sense. The players will come down in price, maybe HD-DVD wins, maybe someone like Pioneer makes a machine that handles both, but since any machine will play "and upconvert" old DVDs, this is no Laserdisc. The purchase is already worth it to me even if they decide in six months not to make more HD-DVDs just based on the upconversion and the movies that I will be able to get in those six months. Either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray has to win, or 1080p TVs are worthless.
LA Dave @ Apr 18th 2006 5:36PM
I will wait for the XBox 360 add-on for HD DVD.
I'm not sure how that is going to work properly as the Xbox 360 does not have HDMI or DVI output options currently.
People will be restricted to component outputs and Image Constraint Tokens unless MS releases a new video adapter with HDCP HDMI or the HD DVD add-on comes with HDMI out.
The price point fot he add-on + XBox 360 should be around the same price or cheaper than buying a new PS3.
Time will tell.
BSTalker @ Apr 18th 2006 6:28PM
Sorry Chris your a little missinformed:
'Either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray has to win' no there is VMD which will win in China and India, and where are most things made these days... (yeah I'm generalising a little)
Also your DVD play from what I've read is NOT 1080p it's 1080i, if you had wanted just a 1080i player there has been one out for well about a year and a half:
http://www.engadget.com/2004/10/18/i-o-data-linkplayer-avlp2-dvdla-and-dvd-player-shipping-soon/
http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVELK&ts=2&tsc=&sc=AVELK&pId=SRDVD-100U
Marc Perton @ Apr 18th 2006 8:39PM
Sorry to disappoint, folks, but I would like to point out a couple of things. First, we chose to link to this review, since it's one of the first hands-on reviews of this player posted on the net. Was it the most thorough review? No, but it wasn't from ExtremeTech or any other site that has the resources to do extensive testing (and he managed to score his HD DVD player -- and post a review -- before any actual HD discs were available). We'll link to more reviews later, so if any of you plan on doing your own, please send links using our Tips form, and we'll check them out. Also, those of you who pointed out that, as far as video is concerned, DVI and HDMI are able to output the same level of digital quality are, of course, right. In my haste to get this post up, I inadvertantly referred to this as a problem, when, in fact, the reviewer was actually pointing out that buyers relying on component video outputs could have a problem with certain disks due to ICT. This has now been corrected. Also, my post in no way reflects a pro-Blu-ray or anti-HD DVD bias. I haven't had the opportunity to use players of either stripe yet, so I have to reserve judgement for now. My comments regarding the "format wars" were merely meant to point out what is going to be the most likely course for the vast majority of consumers, and that will be to wait until the battle subsides -- or until there are hybrid players that can handle both formats. I appreciate this level of input. Thanks for keeping us on our toes!
obo @ Apr 18th 2006 11:15PM
"given the paucity of HD DVD offerings out so far"
Do you even watch porn? I've had a half-dozen HD-DVD's sitting on my TV since January, just bundled in with standard DVDs.
obo @ Apr 18th 2006 11:17PM
"1) I have a 73" Mitsu DLP at 1080p and The Last Samurai looks phenomenal."
How does it look on my 26" RCA CRT?
Chris @ Apr 19th 2006 4:10AM
"1) I have a 73" Mitsu DLP at 1080p and The Last Samurai looks phenomenal."
How does it look on my 26" RCA CRT?
Like crap.
taxman @ Apr 19th 2006 3:53PM
Anyone who does pick up this player and has never owned a 1080i up-converting DVD player before will be pleasantly surprised at the improvements. you now have a "Bookmark" option to create bookmarks at various spots in the movie and easily go back to those points. Does these features alone justify the price of admission?
Phil @ Apr 19th 2006 7:32PM
Just a little tid-bit for those stating keep the player in 1080i mode and let the tv scale the image:
The discs are encoded at 1080p/24fps, and while it may seem natural to let the player output to the interlaced version of 1080, it would be less work for the player and the tv to just output to 720p and let the tv display what the player does. Afterall, how can the player have an excellent upscaler for regular DVD while also not handling the downscaling of 1080p to 720p just as good? It's the same scaler, regardless of what is being done. If it can handle the upcaling side of things it can do just as well downrezing it. I do the same with my DVDO I-scan vp30 and it works like a charm.
From my experience with the player if you set it to downconvert to 720p, the image will look noticably smoother than if you were to set it to 1080i and then let the tv scale to 720p. Keep in mind this is relevent to fixed-pixel displays. If you have a 1080i CRT, well 1080i is obviously the best choice.
Just my two cents.
Lorin Thwaits @ Apr 21st 2006 9:49AM
A friend and I dismantled an HD-A1 in order to find out what made it tick, and were intrigued to learn that inside the drive is a standard IDE unit. Also inside is a USB flash drive on a daughter card:
http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx