Windows Vista to be delayed yet again?
By Marc Perton 
posted May 2nd 2006 4:15PM
posted May 2nd 2006 4:15PM
Given
Microsoft's recent woes -- the company seems to be under attack by everyone from Wall Street analysts to Google -- the
last thing the company needs is a rumor that Windows Vista won't be available by its recently revised January launch date. But that's
what Redmond is getting hit with today, in the form of a research note from Gartner, which predicts a delay until at
least June for the consumer version of the program. According to Gartner, the new OS is "too complex" to be
ready by January. Microsoft has responded by saying that Vista is on target to make the launch. Gartner also says that
a delay until the spring is "nowhere as bad" as the slip from fall to January, which will result in a
Vista-free holiday season. Somehow, we suspect that beleaguered PC makers hoping for a sales bump from Vista upgrades
might have a little trouble taking solace from that argument.
In my first entry, with point #3 I meant that for the company to be in an anti-trust or uncompetitive state they would have to somehow benefit from it. If they don't beneift, no one can argue the ethics around it.
Sam is right when he implied that it isn't the courts deciding to pursue this on their own. Just look at the EU's most recent case presented by Novell and company. With any court case, you always have to consider the potential economic and political goals that one party or the other may be working towards.
And for Silver, I decided to elaborate on the court decisions you mentioned.
American: Monopoly, no harm to consumers, no anti-competitive behavior, nothing to be done.
EU: Monopoly, no harm to consumers, MS competitors are crying so we are going to give you a fine.
Korean: Monopoly, here's a fine so we can look like we are doing something to help consumers when none of our native companies can compete.
Something I did not mention in my second post but meant to: Not only does distribution of source code blast away intellectual property rights, but it also creates serious security issues. Giving source code to several companies who are openly out to hurt you because they cannot compete? I for one would not want Novell looking at network protection source code knowing that they would benefit from finding a potential vulnerability and it becoming "public" one way or another. (cough) Virus! (cough) (Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but you have to admit that it is possible that PC security companies actually write new viruses themselves to force consumers to buy a year of updates each and every year- I will admit that most, if not all, viruses are written by people either trying to hurt the end user or trying to attack the biggest target they can).
Last point for now in case I was not clear about it earlier: There is a huge difference between a near monopoly (Microsoft does not have a "true" monopoly but they do have a "functional" monopoly, as people do have a choice just nearly all choose not to exercise it) and an anti-trust. There is nothing wrong with a monopoly, its when it becomes an anti-trust that the problem arises. A monopoly becomes an anti-trust the moment it begins practices that harm the consumer directly or indirectly (by eliminating competition through predatory pricing- something no company can actually do for long because it requires them to lose money).
Until then, complain about monopolies all you want, but when it comes down to the real issue, MS developed a superior product and as a result has achieved a near monopolistic market share.
As to MS dipping their fingers in things, what internet-age softwareservice companies have not done that? Yahoo and Google are a couple good examples.
I swear I am really finished. For now.
"Ah, I wondered when the "vast right-wing (or left-wing, pick your poison) conspiracy" card would be thrown. Desperate times call for desperate measures."
If someone complains enough and gets enough publicity, a democratic government has to act, otherwise their jobs are on the line. Again, the same up and coming case against MS in the EU is a prime example. If those companies didn't complain, there would be nothing done about it because the public wouldn't care (and therefore their jobs would not be on the line). A more popular case at the moment is the Duke Lacrosse rape case, where the only evidence the DA had to go on was a drunk stripper said she was raped by two people that she could somehow clearly identify even though she was intoxicated. If he hadn't arrested anyone and filed charges, he would've risked a riot (not to mention his job, since he was up for election today).
"Perhaps someday I'll be able to visit every website I'd like on the Internet without having to use IE. Hope springs eternal."
The only website you have to visit with IE is http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/. From there on, you have freedom of choice, which is exactly what the consumer needs and deserves. (Again, Microsoft offered to include competing browsers and medida players with its OS, but for some reason the other parties involved did not like the idea.)
Why am I not surprised?
It's time to switch! :D
"The only website you have to visit with IE is http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/."
I wish that were true. I use Safari and Firefox. There are still plenty of sites (particularly online bank services, etc.) that require IE. And not only IE, but IE for WINDOWS. So much for freedom of choice.
As for arguing that the courts have found no harm to consumers due to Microsoft's behavior, I disagree strongly. I'm not sure where you're getting that. The U.S. government just didn't have the spine to do anything about it. The states' settlements with Microsoft were equally inept. Despite the weak punishments, the courts have clearly decided that Microsoft intentionally engaged in illegal (based on their monopolistic position) anti-competitive practices.
As a Mac user, a former Netscape and WordPerfect user, and a resident of the state where Novell and WordPerfect call (or once called) home, I can certainly say that I've been personally harmed by Microsoft's illegal (per the courts) practices.
I do agree that opening source code to anyone who wants it is a bad, bad idea. The problem is no one has found any other solution. The schoolyard bully is running amuck at the playground but no one knows what to do about it.
"MS developed a superior product and as a result has achieved a near monopolistic market share"
Now you're really laying it on thick. :) I'll admit I'm historically hostile about Microsoft (full disclosure), but to claim their products are superior to competitors and that they rose to the top due to innovation and quality is an exaggeration at best. And I should know, since I use Windows, Office and FrontPage at my office job 5 days a week. FrontPage particularly is a joke. And don't get me started about IE. Are you seriously going to argue that IE has 80%+ browser market share because it's a superior product? Please.
I had no idea Microsoft's covert "grass roots" propaganda campaign was still rolling strong.
when r people gonna realize that us Mac users r doing our jobs tring to gets the points accross and that we tend to have to fib a little to gets people to even respond
GUESS WHAT? SWITCH even if it is to Linux
at least use on OS that makes the best of Unix
that really sux im only waiting on vista to upgrade my PC well anyway i guess hope the rumors arent true
by the way check my website http://www.sagags.com/
I would rather MS release something that works and makes my job (IT Manager) easier. Therefore, if Vista wont ship until June, so be it.
ok so explain this to me, why are we complaining that MS is holding back on us something that will not work correctly until they fix it? This makes me look back in time when i was younger and my mom didnt let me eat the raw chicken until it was cooked and good enough to eat.
To Silver:
You are outnumbered by the idiots here. Let them enjoy their ignorance and their malware infested computers.
Cognitive dissonance has a way of altering people's sense of logic and proportion. When someone has spent years learning how to do things the hard way, it's not easy to admit they wasted their time.
It's like when your buddy spends a small fortune on a car that is obviously a lemon (everyone else can see it) and he says [kicking the tire and patting it lovingly on the side] "Aw, it's not really a bad car . . . "
It's precisedly why PC Techno weenies will go down with the ship. They spent years trying to pound a round peg in a square hole and don't want to admit that their machines and software are more trouble then they're worth.
So . . . "Silver," don't waste your breath. Just because *they* have no lives doesn't mean you need to try to save them.
Let them flounder.
Maybe to make up for all the delays, Microsoft will include a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever with Vista.
suprise suprise... I'm waiting to get a new laptop anyway, might as well just keep waiting for Vista to be ready.
OK, just so you all know - this 'Gartner' is not from MS, and is basing his analysis on how long it took to get XP from Beta 2 to RTM. Things change, and Microsoft has changed. Stop getting your nickers in a twist over heresay by some company wanting attention.
when ms say vista will launch on time -> this means it will be on sale even if not fully working, suggesting that any problems are down to users errors and that a patch will be availble soon ...
am so looking forward to the next set of ms - bs to come out i need a bit of comedy to view from the safety of my brand new shiny mac book pro (oh and i wont be using bootcamp ever!!)
Wow, it really takes that long to get IE7 to pass the Acid2 test of browser standards compliance?
http://webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html
Amazing.
EU: M$ Anti-Trust
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6066220.html
US v. M$ (completely awesome.. EVERYBODY, whether you hate or love M$ should at least review this page):
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
A small review of US v. M$ if you don't want to read above:
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9803/03/gates.full/
I just would like to point out in the above article:
"Gates also rejected charges that his company intends to turn the Internet into a toll road for which Microsoft could require royalties.
'We have no plan to use our platform software ... to charge any type of transaction fee,' he said."
I work for a local county's Sheriff Office in Computer Development. We are one of the leading Sheriff's office in computer technology for our state. I know, for a fact, that by our contracts, we are REQUIRED to pay M$ $315,000 EVERY YEAR for our licenses with M$ Office and support for M$ Windows (that's just the licenses for M$ Office and support, we have to M$ for a lot of other crap we can get cheaper/free otherwise). Wow! Can we all say a waste of tax payer's money? The development team [and myself] run OpenOffice, and most of us are now running a distro of Linux. Though our bosses do not approve of this (but will allow since they can't force us to use Windows), they are too tied onto M$ to see anything else. This is how M$ wants people to feel like, that there is NOTHING ELSE. We [as the computer development team] have proposed several suggestions on how to save hundreds of thousands of dollars instead of paying royalties and what not to companies like this.
Do you want your tax dollars wasted on M$ fees? I sure don't.
As for Windows Vista, our bosses have already stated that they plan on upgrading the day it comes out. Our response: Development isn't. We don't plan on re-programming for the next 4-5 years to support their horrible framework and "Avalon". Windows Vista is not the future, just another subtle hump in the road, just like .NET.
Great, gives them enough time to COPY improvements in the mac o/s....it's pathetic..(e.g. the new find function and widgets)
Brian. Thanks for bringing up the copying thing which we know (or the educated of us know) is a load of crap! Take Widgets/Gadgets. That's an idea even Apple stole.
1.) Silver is a mac fanboy. No point in debating over MS with him. He even attacks other mac users in his blind faith in all things apple.
2.) Like others have pointed out, this 'analysis' is based upon what happened with the testing and release of XP, and therefore can be taken with a grain of salt.
3.) If a web site only works with IE, that's not really MS's fault. The guy writing the code is responsible for cross browser testing. I really don't understand why IE was brought into the conversation.
4.) Vista is based on XP. Like XP is based on win2000. Like win2000 is based on NT. Like OS X is based on BSD(ooooops).
5.) There is no such thing as 'perfect' code. (see: safari, fanboys)
6.) Mariah Carey looks fine as hell in her latest video.
YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT THERE ARE 60+ ENTRIES IN THIS BLOG JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW HOOKED WE ARE ON WINDOWS. LETS ALL DROP IT, STICK WITH XP, AND MAYBE OUR GRANDCHILDREN WILL ONE DAY HAVE ALL THE DELIGTS OF VISTA.
UNTIL THEN, ENOUGH!!!
darn yet again another delay, why can't ms just hurry it up so we all can upgrade now while we can? and he's anouther thing im only 15 and know more that half these pepole know about programing, building and working with pcs and mac alike. i hope some pepole get some brains one day!!! then we can all be happy!! lol
I will say this, since people here are not making any sense: No one here appears to understand what a monopoly is, or what Microsoft does. (And they do have a social networking website. See MSN Spaces) Integration of WMP is not a monopolistic move, and any government agency telling Microsoft that they can NOT integrate THEIR SOFTWARE into THEIR PRODUCT which YOU CHOOSE to BUY AND RUN is interfereing with innovation, and is anti-capitalism. The fact is that Microsoft makes a product that NO OTHER COMPANY can compete with, because their media players are under featured, don't support adaquate file types.... etc.
I am a programmer myself, and have been for a long time. I feel like I should have the right to integrate ANY of MY IDEAS into any other idea I have, even if it crushes the little guy. I don't owe the little guy ANY money for doing it either. THAT is the basis that America operates on.... That would be the idea that anyone can get rich in America for those of you in Europe.
When Apple creates a media player that people prefer over WMP, you can bet that Microsoft will be asking Apple if they can include it standard, because what the customer uses, Microsoft will want to sell. The fact is though, that not Linux, Mac, OS/2 or any other OS will go everywhere, or do everything that Windows XP does.
Vista is behind because Microsoft wants it right, and that is why they have such long support agreements. 10 years... And that is not from 2002 people. Folks running SP2 get that extended 10 years from the time SP2 was released. I DARE you to find anyone who offers that to their customers for $299.
Calling Vista XP Sp3 is retarded. See my previous comment on the networking, etc.... No one pays attention to that though.. Stupid people. Just want to complain.
Ah Willy, my old friend, tossing the "fanboy" word around when you have nothing rational or intelligent to add to the debate...at least you're consistent.
"When Apple creates a media player that people prefer over WMP, you can bet that Microsoft will be asking Apple if they can include it standard"
Um yeah, Nathan, it's called iTunes. And I would love to see the day MS bundles iTunes with Windows by default. It will never happen. WMP is garbage, and everyone knows it. Even Willy.
"If a web site only works with IE, that's not really MS's fault."
Well, since Microsoft can't bring themselves to build a browser that supports Web standards, and their browser becomes the default standard because of their 90% OS market share, then, well, I guess that does make it their fault.
"I really don't understand why IE was brought into the conversation."
Um, because someone mentioned Microsoft's dominance being due to their superior products? A point completely shredded by the fact that IE is far and away the dominant browser yet is also far and away the inferior of its competitors? Reading. It's fundamental.
Go back to your Mariah Carey video, Willy. There's actual thinking going on around here.
That's good news...for competitors. Vista has new features that will take down some small developers (let's say PDF creation, parental control...) so the longer the delay, the longer they "survive" too.
And don't think that popular open source software is safe, I still wonder how much of the user database FireFox will lose for example.
#46. Probably includes built-in DRM for your 'protection'. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The sad thing is, thats probably true. :(
Microsoft is MONOPOLY! don't complain.