Sony ships 25GB Blu-ray recordables; 50GB to come in June

Lest anyone question their position as king of the Blu-ray mountain, Sony has announced that it has started shipping single-layer 25GB Blu-ray discs, and will begin follow up with 50GB discs in June. Yes, we know that TDK has already announced their own dual-layer discs (and is even working on eight layer 200GB versions), but it looks like Sony may just get their 50 giggers out the door first. Pricing is set at about $20 per disc for the single-layer version and $48 for the 50GB discs. Yes, that's right. The higher-capacity disc will have a higher per-GB price than the single-layer version. Such is the price for burning on the cutting-edge (and, no, we're not even going to try to visualize that horribly mixed metaphor).

[Nick @ May 5th 2006 12:01PM]

HD DVD is on the market for home theatre systems already, but I can't remembr if they have released any computer drives as of yet. I think that SONY is going to get a huge advantage considering that more people, especially tech savvy computer nerds who buy all the latest and greatest drives and periferals for their PC's will want to buy the drive that will give them the most storage option.

[Mike @ May 5th 2006 12:02PM]

to Quantumphysics.....

HD-DVD will win....simply because its cheaper.

For media purposes, if a whole 1080p movie can fit on a single HD-DVD disc....what difference does higher capacity make?

for storage purposes...."$48 for the 50GB discs" should be enough to know why its going to fail :). For the rumoured price of the burners to even use these things, I could buy a a terrabyte in HD storage....even with RAID, just in case one fails(and the blu-ray discs can STILL get scratched, it IS possile). BUT THEN you add in the discs,which would cost me what, another $960 for a terrabyte!!!!!

HD-DVD and hard disc drives FTW

[adm @ May 5th 2006 12:11PM]

does "giggers" sound funny to anyone else? tee-hee!

[SuicideNinja @ May 5th 2006 12:15PM]

The format wars are concentrating on movies, not storage space. Bluray could still lose the war, but be accepted for PC storage (although not likely).

You don't even need 25GB for most HD movies, so the storage space argument doesn't apply.

Realistically, native HD movies could be stored on DVD9 with better compression. Or a much cheaper alternative format like EVD could be used. Or people could use upscaling DVD players that get similar results.

Behind all the scenes, it has nothing to do with space or ability. It isn't because HD with movies is some serious leap in technology. Many will see the minute difference and shrug it off. It has to do with who has the most annoying DRM that Hollywood likes?

This format war is just a scam on the consumer. We just want to find out how many are going to fall for it.

[Cage @ May 5th 2006 12:18PM]

"With the massive storage abilities of Blu Ray, how could any reasonable person claim HD-DVD is going to win the format wars?"

$20 for single layer
$48 for double

Uh...lemme think...

[Daniel @ May 5th 2006 12:23PM]

Way back in, oh I can't figure it out but the IIc was cool & the Amiga 1000 was new, I (OK, my Dad) bought an Amiga 1000. A box of 10 3.5" "floppies" (holding 800K each) cost $70.

[Aaron @ May 5th 2006 12:23PM]

Who in their right mind is going to pay $48 for a 50GB disk when 500GB hard drives can be had on sale for about $250 and less after rebate. With Sony's economy of scale, the 500GB hard drive would be $480. No thanks Blu Ray, I'll wait until you hit at least 50 cents a GB.

[Hmmmm @ May 5th 2006 12:38PM]

blah blah blah "how could any reasonable person claim HD-DVD is going to win the format wars?"

Ummm, I really don't think either format is going to "win" the format war when it comes to STORAGE. Not for very long anyway. There are many better STORAGE formats on the horizon. I just want the cheapest HD media and players for HD movies right now...and that appears to be HD-DVD.

For those that think 50GB or even 8 layer 200GB discs are the end-all of storage, be sure to look back on this thread and laugh in 1-2 years.

[Earl @ May 5th 2006 1:01PM]

You dont think that HD DVD is going to come up with some other polymer called Durabest or something, making it resistable to perhaps a chainsaw?

Seriously, you cant base much on simply durability, unless HD DVD's are retarted enough to not make their dvd's strong.

[MrAlterEgo @ May 5th 2006 1:05PM]

blah blah blah "how could any reasonable person claim HD-DVD is going to win the format wars?"

Well considering 95% of the world uses windows, and microsoft backing HD-DVD, its seems obvious HD-DVD will at least win as the PC storage media...

HD-DVDs carry the same basic structure as current DVDs, so converting existing DVD manufacturing lines into HD-DVD lines is supposedly simple and cost effective.

[Ultim8fury @ May 5th 2006 1:15PM]

Durability means nothing. Longevity is where it's at. If I can't come back to the same media in 10 years time and have it work after being kept at a stable temperature in the dark, then there is no point. Of course given the length of time Blu-ray has been available you can't judge its life expectancy.

[Paul @ May 5th 2006 1:16PM]

I thought a single layer HD-DVD cant hold 2 hours of 1080p home made footage?

I may be wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that HD-DVD doesnt have enough space when it comes to recording home media at 1080p.

Please tell me the real story :P

[Mark @ May 5th 2006 1:22PM]

Is it just me, or does that picture say 23 GB, not 25?

[Pfft @ May 5th 2006 1:26PM]

No offense, but MO (magneto optical) discs were far superior to anything here in the U.S. but they still got run over three ways 'til Sunday by the Zip disk.

(It's the old Beta versus VHS argument; Beta was superior in many ways, but lost to VHS because of more storage space for less money, among other things.)

[MrAlterEgo @ May 5th 2006 1:33PM]

Any type of format Sony backs always blows anyway... Betamax, memorysticks, minidisc, umcd (whatever the hell its called) M$ is backing HD-DVD and it will prevail.

Can we please just get some descent flash technology so we can rid of optical media, moving parts suck... Plus i keep images of all my cd's and dvd's on my PC for playback through a HD capable card. F*&# discs!!

[MaX PL @ May 5th 2006 1:39PM]

quantum physics, you arguement fails for one reason.

you may have the money, but average consumers dont.

once the market gets "the news" of the differences between HD DVD and Blu Ray, Blu Ray will lose popularity.

PS3 may help it a bit, but I dont see PS3 having the same success that was PS2.

additionally, as someone mentioned, the PC industry will back HD DVD because MS supports it. Computer geeks wont need BluRay for media storage when they have HDDs. its very simple.

so go ahead and buy you son a PS3 for $500, and join the rest of the idiots.

[tekdroid @ May 5th 2006 1:49PM]

lol@price
lol@HDCP
lol@AACS
lol@phasing out 'unprotected' analogue outputs in AACS licensing agreement
lol@thinking another physical format will take over (cracked CSS) DVD so easily.

I want to support HD-DVD and Blu-ray so my basic rights can be handed over to the corporations on a silver platter (again), I really do. I want to see analogue outputs disappear from video cards and home playback devices, too. I do. I want to line Hollywood's pockets every time I buy hardware, whether I play independent content or not, because they really need to control the future hardware market for their self-benefit. They do.

It's all just so enticing.

[MrAlterEgo @ May 5th 2006 1:58PM]

How about we don't buy either and just download everything!!! There should be standards cause im tired of all this propriotary BS.. Everything from this dongle to the device to this disc and so on.. Capitalism at its best!!

[archie4oz @ May 5th 2006 2:00PM]

This isn't news other than Sony's releasing single and dual layer media.. Sony has had single layer Blu-Ray media available for a couple of years now (the only difference is that it was 23 and 27GB media and it wasn't spin-coated (hence the caddie)). Panasonic has had dual-layer (50GB) media available since last year...

[NONE @ May 5th 2006 2:22PM]

I think Quantumphysics must work for Sony.


First of all, $1 a GB is just silly. First of all it's expensive, secondly, it can only be ported between machines with Blu-Ray drives. I just don't see people lining up to drop $1000 so they can pay $1 per GB. Even if/when the price drops, the media is prohibitively expensive when compared to readily available DVD recordables... and if you need to transfer/archive more than 4.5GB at a time, there are more cost effective alternatives.

Secondly - Blu-Ray has ZERO penetration because nothing exists for it yet. I keep hearing about this great PS3 that hasn't seen the light of day yet.

Thirdly - Lets say a person wants to waste their $$ on a Blu-Ray device. They burn 20-40GB of goodness and then do WHAT with it? Are they going to play a PS3 game with it? No. Are they going to burn an HD movie on it? Perhaps if they can capture and record an HD signal which is applicable for hardcore videophiles only at this point; even then there's no guarantee you can play it on a PS3. Are you going to drop that kind of cash to store/backup a large amount of files? Uhhh... not if you're practical.

There is simply no compelling reasin to buy Blu-Ray recordable media at this point. It's a neat gadget for sure, but it's uses are very limited.

[CL2442 @ May 5th 2006 2:23PM]

Quantum physics,,,, do a bit of research and you'll find that the xbox 360 optional hd-dvd drive will be shown at this year's E3 and the price tag is said to be $100.. so if you add 399.99 for the premium package plus $100 for the hd-dvd drive.. you get both for 499.99,,, on the other hand you have a ps3 that probobly will not have a price tag below 499.99. so there is just no valid point when you say the xbox 360 will fail. Remember not everyone will get an hd-dvd or blu ray player at first.. but the most important thing is price.. and i bet you anything that movies on blu ray will cost more then hd-dvd movies.

[MuDoggy @ May 5th 2006 2:31PM]

1) With HD-DVD you'll still have to have multiple discs for extended movies with special features... this is way too lame for a "next gen" movie technology. Even a 2hr movie has to be on a double layer HD-DVD, they're ALREADY running out of room.

2) If you took a mini blu-ray disc (the 8cm sized discs) you'd have the storage capacity of a full HD-DVD disc. If you little HD-DVD people are just desperate to have a limit of 15/30GB then just take a mini Blu-ray disc with you. ha.

3) Final point... when it comes right down to it, most companies that decide our technology future is behind blu-ray. Apple (computer hardware) Disney (movies) and the majority of movie companies are behind this as well. They obviously see the need for more storage and are willing to invest in the technology more than a mere HD-DVD "upgrade".

Also, I?ve used Blu-ray and you only realize once you use it that even 50GB is hardly enough and that there would be no way to stick with 15/30 for very long.

[some old coot @ May 5th 2006 2:38PM]

You kids today and your high tech thingamajigs. I am happy with my 40mb hard drive and 5 1/4 disks they hold enough for me. What do you need all that room for anyway? You just going to fill it up with MPZ music like snoop diggity dog and put them on your IPOPS. Whatever happened to Walkmans and 8-tracks if they were good enough for me then they are good enough for you. I gotta go now my rotary phone is rigging.

[Rob @ May 5th 2006 2:40PM]

To those of use who need incremental back-ups of lots of data, 50GB discs of any kind are a step in the right direction! Let the data-paranoid rejoice!

[Tommy Mang @ May 5th 2006 2:53PM]

$20 !? Obviously this is not for the regular consumer...

[K MAN @ May 5th 2006 2:53PM]

According to the lastest TWIT, John C Dvorak has said that HD-DVD shares the decoding method as a standard DVD so future HD-DVD movies will be shipped Dual Sided. So one side, you can play the movie in HD, and the other side, in a traditional DVD player. This seems like the winning path to me.

There is no freakin way I'm paying that much for a blue ray disc only to have a tiny scratch in it and bam! i'm out $20 bucks.

Since it's rewritable, to Buffer Underrun is no longer an issue(you can just start over), but $20 bucks for a single disc?

The real question is, How much is the mark up? how much does it cost Sony to make one disc out of millions mass produced?

[K MAN @ May 5th 2006 2:56PM]

No one is arguing the size of blue ray.

but is it Cost to Capacity efficient?

at $20 a disc, I don't think so. At least not at launch time.

[hemmy @ May 5th 2006 3:32PM]

I guess people weren't around long enough to remember the high costs of CD/DVD media and hardware when they were first introduced. Prices for both BD hardware and media will only continue to fall, quite fast. Blu-ray disks are exceptionally resiliant, far more than any untreated disk, thanks to the Durabis coating, so you can throw the scratch arguments out the window. Blu-ray still has the majority of the electronics manufacturers behind it and all the major movie studios with one exception is backing it as well. Hell, the porno industry has just adopted Blu-ray! In the Beta/VHS war, porno backed VHS, we know how that one turned out :)

All that and the upcoming PS3 that has Blu-ray out of the box, and 200+ million playstation units out there with a loyal customer base ready to move to the next generation.

In light of all that I'm not convinced HD-DVD is going anywhere.

[MrAlterEgo @ May 5th 2006 3:44PM]

hemmy, ur argument has no weight.. Porn on any kind of removable media is dead!! everyone downloads it now!!

Also the ps3 is gonna be like the ps2 and the laser wont work properly after a couple discs anyway. Sony makes shitty disc players ive seen as least 4 ps2's that couldnt play dvd movies... Plus playstations are kid toys, most adults are always 2-3 years behind anyway so those hd-dvd discs with the standard dvd on one side is gonna be a HUGE factor for the average middle aged/classed joe... Plus M$ backs HD-DVD that in its self overides all those company's backing blue-gay!!

[Mark Felps @ May 5th 2006 3:50PM]

MuDoggy. Microsoft, which has utterly controlled PC evolution for the last twenty years is behind HD DVD. Compared to Apple, which has a tiny portion of the market. And Disney will put out movies in whatever format wins, just like the rest of the Hollywood folk. Hollywood didn't save Betamax, and it likely won't save Blu-Ray.

None of it makes any difference because both formats will be dead in the water before they ever get reasonable market penetration. With 32+GB flash drives, 300GB+ Holographic storage, and hard drives so cheap they should give them away, the need slow writing removable media is about to be a thing of the past.

Most importantly is that no one wants them other than high-end video geeks. There's no point in having either unless you have an HD TV. Even then, the number of people willing to throw down serious cash for a difference between 480p and 720p/1080p is miniscule, and that's in the U.S. which has some of the highest HD penetration of any market.

[ROadRunna @ May 5th 2006 3:55PM]

Am I the only one who agrees with QuantumPhysics? MuDuggy has a point as well. Yeah they can fit a 2 hour HD movie on an HD-DVD but what about the extras? Yes, they can fit that too but with one caveat. The extras won't be HD. What's the point of switching to a whole new format if it's half assed? I think the DVD era was way too short so if we have to switch a new format, it should be able to last at least 12 -15 years. Blu-ray seems more future proof and has the backing of Pc manufacturers. Who cares if Microsoft supports HD-DVD. Microsoft is a software company. The PC manufacturers will decide what hardware goes into their computers. The only PC manufacturer I can think of backing HD-DVD is HP. The only thing Microsoft can do is integrate HD-DVD support into Vista's media player. Blu-ray drive manufacturers can easily provide software with their drives so whats the problem? I love when people say Blu-ray will fail because all Sony formats fail. Who the hell said Blu-ray is exclusively a Sony format? THere are many companies with a stake in Blu-ray so that argument goes right out the window. Xbox 360 mathicng PS3's blu-ray with an HD-DVD add-on? Are you joking? Add-ons for videogame consoles never do well. Think 32X, Sega CD, Nintendo 64DD, Atari Jaguar CD....

[Broo @ May 5th 2006 4:07PM]

I personally hope Sony falls flat on their face (again) and BlueRay ends up like all their other 'superior' (proprietary) formats- like the BetaMax, MiniDisc, DAT, AIT, Memory Stick and UMD... Sony is out to rape everyone with licensing for BlueRay and I don't think it will happen. Being a movie studio as well they are also intent on making the consumer pay as much as possible for their products...

As far as production costs, HD-DVD can use existing DVD-ROM prodution facilities with some modifications- I think Warner Brothers announced that they will be releasing movies that are DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other- and I doubt this will be possible with BlueRay as it requires a new hardware to implement. So we will see how the costs/profits go on HD-DVD vs. BlueRay and see which way the studios decisde swing...

I also have heard that there is a clause in the licensing for BlueRay that the manufacturers can NOT make a device that plays both BlueRay and HD-DVD formats on the same device- Personaly I would love to have a box that plays everything (CD, DVD, VCD, BlueRay, HD-DVD, etc) but this cannot happen due to a licensing stipulation? If I find this to be true than I will boycott BlueRay on this princpal alone...

I think Sony is just getting a little too greedy and wanting to take the option of 'choice' away from the consumers by not allowing easy comparison with other formats...

IF the next movies come out in HD and it is $50 for BlueRay vs. $40 for HD-DVD at the same resolution/DTS/features- I will stay with DVD for $20 and wait until the prices of the former two get to a sane level (it took about 5 years for this to happen with DVD).

There are rumors that Microsoft is going to announce their addon HD-DVD for the xBox 360 soon- now if the xBox 360 can play HD-DVD movies, that will be another kick to BlueRay and a bump for the xBox 360 (maybe I will finally buy one since they are everywhere now).

[MrAlterEgo @ May 5th 2006 4:09PM]

Dude, most PC's will come bundled with a HD-DVD not Blue-Gay so most people will use it...

Also fuck extra's, yea im gonna pay like a 50% premium so i can see the whacked out director comment on the movie, yea right...

The point is media players are gonna run the scene not standalone players. M$ will top the media players and people will be fed HD-DVD...

one more point almost everyone in the blue gay camp is asian... American based companies run the trends and most US based companies back HD-DVD. Simple economics...

[Paul @ May 5th 2006 5:23PM]

@36

Firstly its 'Blu-Ray' not 'Blue-Ray'.

As half this board again slate off Sony, just remember this.

Blu-Ray has a lot more companies behind it. At the moment it will cost more, which is understandable.
Everyone said the same when DVD, DVD+RW and DVD+RW+HDD came out. All media was expensive at first and so was the hardware to play it on.

Although most of the comments deny the 'PS3' being a huge support for Blu-Ray...Remember this.
Most kids are going to buy a Playstation 3. Even if you argue with this, deep down you know its true. The Blu-Ray playback will be on the PS3. So why would owners of a Playstatin 3 go out and buy a HD-DVD player?


Most of the comments above are based on assumptions, some of which haven't been confirmed.
And I expect some comments, slating my comments. But oh well....

Fact is, NO one knows what is going to happen.

[Cage @ May 5th 2006 5:46PM]

"BY THE WAY, PS3's claimed release price will be $399 not $500. Get your facts straight."

You just tried to turn a rumor into a fact and use it as an argument. Horrible...

1. The fact is in 10-15 years discs will be obsolete

2. Blue Rays price is way to high

3. People keep using the argument that its attached to the PS3 so everyone will have it. If a stand alone player is $1000 and PS3 theoretically $499, you think the PS3 player is going to be high quality?!? Especially with attached in the early stages of Blue Ray? Do future PS3's get better quality? The player will have problems...

Too many Sony fanboys

[Cage @ May 5th 2006 5:52PM]

To Paul...

All companies state they are behind a media. Why would they say they arent!? The same companies are behind HD-DVD...they just want to sell their product. They dont care who wins.

"Most kids are going to buy a PS3"

Not with the $500+ price tag. Last time I checked the parents are the ones who buy the consoles (unless most kids now have full time jobs and no bills). And they think to themselves $500+?!? Really?!?

[Vman @ May 5th 2006 6:23PM]

Bwu-WayDisc is numbah-won! (use Japanese accent) HD-DVD should give up now and not waste uninformed people's money.

[Vman @ May 5th 2006 6:34PM]

One more thing. Everyone should read up on the current subject before commenting 'facts'. Opinions are welcome, but don't back up your prediction of the winner by bunk facts. It just throws people off that are trying to injest all they can of the subject.

[Escalation @ May 5th 2006 8:58PM]

It is amazing to see people here spouting off about a $500+ PS3, without anything confirmed. Simply sounding like you are trying to convince yourselfs more than anything.

Also funny how they mention the add on HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360. This extra will cost who knows how much, to play HD movies? Wow, I'll be first in line.

[SR @ May 5th 2006 9:16PM]

So much ignorance here that it's hard to believe especially considering this site is supposed to be frequented by technology/gadget enthusiasts.

1. Prices always come down. My first DVD player was $1200.

2. Technologies have to be designed to meet a lifespan. Something like 10 years is good. Baby steps usually don't offer that.

3. What format backed simultaneously by Sony, Philips and Matshushita has ever failed? Most of you are too young to answer that, but try your best anyway.

I hate Sony as much as (or even more than) the next self-respecting technophile, but I can appreciate a superior product when I see it.

[Jason the Practical @ May 5th 2006 9:38PM]

A Ferrari, Porsche, or other exotic car can go over 200 miles per hour, but very few of their owners will rarely, if ever, take them to that speed. Also, they are rarely the most practical automobile, or the best value. The companies that make them, however, continue to make substantial profits on their small production numbers because high end consumers continue to buy them for excessive prices, rarely, if ever, taking advantage of their full capacities. They are proud to own them, however.

You should all relax a little bit; there is room for a high end format, a regular format, and a value format in the market. Just as Ferrari, Honda, and Kia can co-exist comfortably, so too can Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD/RW, CD/RW, USB Drives, Flash Cards, etc. You'll even still find 3.5 inch disks out there for several more years.

Also note that what is right for the residential and small business market is not always what is right for the commerical market. Paranoid CEO's or department managers who don't fully trust offsite backups might kill for a solution that (eventually) allows them to quickly and simply back up 200+ GB of data in a format they can take home and stick in a safe.

[Reg @ May 5th 2006 9:47PM]

Excellent news for people who need to archive large slabs of video footage.

Apple Mac + Final Cut Pro + Blu-ray drive = great combination.

I hope the Intel PowerMac replacements ("Mac Pro?") rumored for August have a Blu-ray drive fitted.

[Mickey @ May 5th 2006 10:26PM]

I have been playing games pretty much since I was 10 (I am now 30) so I've had a few consoles in my lifetime. I currently own a PS2 and an XBOX but hardly play any games on my XBOX (thinking of selling it infact). XBOX 360 is out, but I will not spend my money on the XBOX 369 because I'd rather wait for the PS3. Why? because of the line up of games within the Playstation franchise. If PS3 is going to come in Blu Ray format, then I'd already have my Blu Ray DVD player so why bother spending more on an HD player. Like it or not, people WILL buy PS3s, and they will buy ALOT of them when it comes out. The PS3 has built up so much brandpower since PS1 that that brandpower alone will guarantee it alot of loyal customers. If PS3 is going to be adopted en masse, so will Blu Ray. and yeah ADD ONs to console have NEVER - yep NEVER worked. If Microsoft can pull it off, then great. Also Blu Ray has higher capacity storage which means it can become a storage host to a whole new generation of smaller devices and we all know how important smaller devices are nowadays (less production costs by reducing materials used, storage and inventory space on gadgets using Blu Ray format, and let us not forget consumers want cooler smaller gadgets) HD can't compete on size but Blu Ray can. Size matters too in technology.

[Jamie @ May 6th 2006 10:55AM]

IN REPLY TO QUANTUMPHYSICS....

#1 HDDVD IS CHEAPER

I remember when CDR recorders were $500 and CDR disks costed $10 a piece. 5 years later, CDR drives and Recorders come free with PC's and CDR's cost $25 for 100 disks.
The same thing happened when DVDR and DVDRW's were released.

It takes a few years for the manufacturing processes to produce devices and media cheaper. Thats just how it always is.

>>>> Fair points, but same arguable for HDDVD, surely. It doesn't address the fact that BR will be more expensive per GB.

#2 (7) Who in their right mind is going to pay $48 for a 50GB disk when 500GB hard drives can be had on sale for about $250 and less after rebate. With Sony's economy of scale, the 500GB hard drive would be $480.

BLU RAY disks are SOLID STATE memory. A Hard drive can be damaged by a VIRUS or by physical damage (software curruption). Blu Ray disks could therefore obviously win as Storage Backup medium.

>>>> Once again, ditto HDDVD - ANY OPTICAL DISC IS SOLID STATE

HDDVD's only sving grace is that it can present HD quality video for HD video players. That would mean that HDDVD's market penetration depends on HD DVD players being sold at affordable prices so that people will buy them...not to mention that they will also have to buy HD TV's.


Lets see, am I going to spend $2000 for a 42 inch Plasma HDTV (and not eat this month) or $500 for a regular 42" TV?

TOUGH DECISION

>>>> Stupid argument. BR is in the same boat. If you mean that HD isn't a viable storage medium, back it up. Burners are appearing. You can't watch HD BR on an SD TV

Blu-Ray disks will have immediate market penetration when PS3 is released. PS2 helped DVD's market penetration since they were among the least expensive DVD players you could buy when they were released.

Lets see, AM I GOING TO BUY MY SON THE PS3 HE WANTS THIS CHRISTMAS...or am I gonna spend $400 on an HDDVD player.

>>>> Following o from another argument, the XBOX 360 + add-on HDDVD drive will be cheaper, according to most Market Analysts (including Morgan Stanley), than the PS3. Couple the fact that games for the PS3 are gonna be extremely expensive because of their format, as compared to DVD games for the 360. If M$ were ever to release games that required the add-on drive they'd probably still be cheaper.

I don't think people here pay attention to trends. That is why most of you think Microsoft's XBOX 360 is going to win the console wars just because it got an early start.

I remember a company named SEGA who thought the same thing witwhen they released a console called "SATURN".

>>>> Unconnected, really, but you mean the Dreamcast, surely?

AND THE HANDYCAM ARGUMENT:
Ok, cool. But Digital8 is far more used, for a start, and the Handycams take 8cm discs. Again, more expensive to produce for a limited market, and more expensive to buy. I'm also not sure whether your calculations take into account the loss of media.

NOW MY OWN ARGUMENTS:

1) HDDVD is backed by Microsoft, who make Windows, which is used by an overwhelming majority of the world, as opposed to other operating systems. OK, you'll be able to use BR on the systems, but HD is offered NATIVELY. BIG advantage.

2) It's already been stated that converting a DVD production line to HDDVD is far cheaper than to BR.

3) SONY'S TRACK RECORD:
Betamax. Memory Stick (all 20~ forms of it). Both have lost out to cheaper media (OK, MS is still there but only in Sony products. And it's more expensive than SD, despite almost identical hardware.)

If anyone sees holes in my arguments let me know, but i just saw way too many in Quantumphysics' to ignore.

[Jamie @ May 6th 2006 11:14AM]

Sorry, in handycam argument, when i say loss of media i mean loss of storage when comparing 8 & 12cm BR discs.

Cheers,
Jamie

[Jamie @ May 6th 2006 11:26AM]

Sorry to triple post, here, but i'd not noticed this guy before:

Broo, you're talking shit about DAT - it's been the widest used form of multitrack recording over the pas 15 years - PC/Hard Disk/Mac recording is only just catching up.

And DAT wasn't just Sony - the best decks were made by Akai and Alesis. I use an Alesis pretty much every other day at the moment, and it's nigh perfect.

Proof of its' popularity is in the fact that the new Alesis multitracking HDD recorders are still branded ADAT.

[hemmy @ May 6th 2006 12:48PM]

Microsoft supporting HD-DVD means nothing aside from a barely slight convenience. When people buy drives and burners, disks will be included that have appropriate drivers on them, much like most drives nowadays? Much like how things were done for over a decade when you couldn't count on MS having the right drivers for your hardware? Backing HD-DVD wasn't surprising, MS doesn't want to pay BD licensing fees, and they would be pretty upset after investing alot of time in developing the interactive layer that HD-DVD employs, iHD. Sun's Java is the enemy, and java is what Blu-ray employs, which is regarded as being more flexible and capable than iHD.

The HD-DVD addon for the 360 is MS hedging their bets. If they were certain HD-DVD was a shoe in, they would have included it in the 360. We don't know for certain it will cost $100, and we don't know what the PS3 will cost either (indications are that it will likely be $399(US). That's with a 60gig HDD and Blu-ray drive). The HD-DVD addon will *only* play movies, while on the PS3 all games will be on BD discs.
"Peter Moore told Japanese site ITmedia that a Blu-ray Xbox 360 peripheral could appear for the system if the need arises. Moore admitted that Microsoft isn't sure of the next-generation format war's outcome" :)

To the glaringly obvious 14 year old fanboy talking about american based companies running the trend, Apple, Dell, and HP all support Blu-ray. How many American set top dvd manufacturers are there? Riiiiiight. Blu-ray also has Hitachi, LG, Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, and lots more supporting.

The point? I don't think MS support of HD-DVD outweighs Sony's ability to rapidly introduce millions of BD players through the PS3. I personally don't care for being forced into a new format, but if I had to pick one, it will be Blu-ray, the logically and technologically superior choice.

[MrFloppy @ May 6th 2006 3:25PM]

HD-DVD is cheaper, HD-DVD is cheaper... you look like sheeps. When the first 1080p HD-DVD will be available, then compare the prices with Blu-Ray devices.

HD movies? Just check Amazon. THE SAME.

And HD recordables... show me some prices for HD-DVDs.

[Paul @ May 7th 2006 3:33AM]

@53, I think you again need to do some research.

Amazon is showing both brand new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray films from $29.00

And blu-ray is generally cheaper than HD-DVD to buy on Amazon. Most blu-ray films cost $20.49 and HD-DVD films vary (mainly $23 bracket).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EZ7ZZE/qid=1146986888/sr=8-5/ref=pd_bbs_5/102-2387594-2063316?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EZ7ZYK/qid=1146987098/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-2387594-2063316?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

[Whuh? @ May 7th 2006 7:41AM]

Now imagine while you were burning a $48 BD disc and half way, your PC froze.