Sony to support AAC -- heck not to freeze over

When Sony execs recently announced that the company was prepping to take on the iPod with new software, a download service and new digital audio players, we didn't expect the company's first move to be to announce support for the AAC audio format. But plans by Sony to include the format in the latest version of its Sonic Stage software -- and, presumably, in future portable players, as well -- makes perfect sense. After all, the PSP -- not to mention most Sony Ericsson musicphones -- already supports AAC, and Sony was one of the developers (along with AT&T, Dolby and others) of the format in the first place. However, that hasn't stopped various pundits from concluding that Sony's AAC support marks some kind of victory for the company that leads the market for portable media players (or as PortalPlayer likes to call them, "our biggest customer"). But despite headlines such as "Sony bows to Apple format," which appeared on Asahi.com earlier today, Sony will not be supporting Apple's FairPlay DRM, so iTunes-purchased tracks will remain iPod-only. And, chances are, despite the AAC support, Sony's products will still be Sonic Stage-only, so you can probably forget about using iTunes with your next-gen Bean. Now, move along. There's nothing going on here.

[Jake @ May 10th 2006 2:45PM]

Your article states "Sony will not be supporting Apple's FairPlay DRM, so iTunes-purchased tracks will remain iPod-only."

I suspect it would be more accurate to state it this way: "Apple would not permit Sony to playback songs purchased on iTunes even if Sony wanted to because Apple has millions of users economically locked into Apple hardware and intends to keep it that way."

[whatever_man @ May 10th 2006 2:51PM]

Screw Sonicstage...Screw iTunes.

Let me use non-DRMed music manager of my choice, OUT OF THE BOX. I don't want some hacked software off a seedy site as an alternative to iTunes or Sonicstage. I want Drag-n-Drop capability!

Screw Sony. Screw Apple.

[portorikan @ May 10th 2006 2:53PM]

Whatever_man,

drag and drop your songs into itunes.

You've never used it, right man?

[Big Sam @ May 10th 2006 2:55PM]

Preach on whatever_man!

[CaptnCivilian @ May 10th 2006 2:57PM]

Can someone please leak some pics of the new (? video) ipod competitor Sony is working on, I want something to drool over. My VAIO pocket is great but its getting old. I dont want to convert to apple because of their inferior sound quality, but Im also getting kinda impatient.

[Lee Gibson @ May 10th 2006 3:02PM]

*contemplates drag-n-drop organization of 7000 tracks*

*shudders*

Maybe I'm stupid, but I totally fail to understand what's so great about drag n' drop. iTunes works just fine with my pile o' MP3's, and I don't have to care what directories they're in. It just works.

Drag n' drop seems to me akin to using the paper card catalog at the library. Sure, you can do it but...what for?

[whatever_man @ May 10th 2006 3:03PM]

portorikan,

ummm...drag and drop into the damn player. not itunes. I thought that was obvious.

BTW...I have a nano, that's why I hate iTunes so much.

[ron g @ May 10th 2006 3:06PM]

Actually there is something to see here. It means you can take SonicStage ripped CDs and move them to iTunes, and vice versa. No more re-ripping in arcane formats like ATRAC or whatever

And whatever... man
iTunes IS a non-DRMed music manager (which also supports DRMed music). That is what makes iTunes better than everything else. It operates awith so many different formats including the non-DRMed music store "eMusic" ? yup just "Drag-n-Drop" into iTunes.
eMusic
MP3
VBR
WMF
Ogg Vorbis
AAC
MP4
WAV
Apple Lossless
AIFF
QuickTime
MOV

[ron g @ May 10th 2006 3:08PM]

You CAN "drag and drop into the damn player".

[ron g @ May 10th 2006 3:14PM]

>I dont want to convert to apple because of their inferior sound quality,
>but Im also getting kinda impatient.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You should read audiophile reports on the iPod. It is the best portable audio quality out there.

Together with the AAC format and support for AIFF (which if you read audiophile publications, would tell you that the iPod is capable of and does infact outperform CDs - for example jitter is completely done away with on the iPod and the iPod also playsback sampling rates far greater than the CD, like Monster's releases for example).

[The Jeremy @ May 10th 2006 3:21PM]

Jake (and to others who think likewise):

Steve Jobs (of Apple) offered the Sony Chairman a 50% stake in the iTunes Music Store back in 2004 when they were golfing together. The Sony Chairman politely turned down the offer and proceeded with launching the unsuccessful Sony Connect Online Store.

Point is, Steve Jobs was willing to share the iTunes Store - and along with it, the FairPlay DRM - with Sony. Chances are that Jobs would be receptive to Sony coming back to the table considering it would kill all chance of Microsoft or any other company gaining success in the market if AAC+FairPlay ran on the Playstation3, the PSP, the entire SonyEricsson mobile phone line, stand-alone internet accessing Blu-Ray disc players, the [unsuccessful] Sony MP3 players, and the Sony VAIO line of computers. It would also negate any criticism [or charge] of Apple being a monopolist with the iPod+iTunes.

[whatever_man @ May 10th 2006 3:25PM]

Every music manager can do drag and drop, not just iTunes. And any music manager can handle all those formats...it's called "installing the codec"....sheesh. It's ability to drap-n-drop to and FROM the player natively that's so nice.

It's not about managing your music with "drag-n-drop" capabilities. It's the ability to manage your music with whatever software you choose to use. It's a little thing called "choice". It's music I paid for, I want listen to it where I please, not just limited to one computer and my ipod. Maybe you'll call me a pirate for liking my freedom...maybe you live the RIAA and MPAA slowly squeezing all your rights...but I'd rather have choice in the end.

[CaptnCivilian @ May 10th 2006 3:28PM]

ron g,

Really, CNET just did a head to head trial (using a sony NWHD5 vs. 5G ipod as well as other makes) and said the Sony was the best sounding while ipod was the worst. Are there other sites around that are doing good comparisons?
The idea that the ipod has no jitter and is therefore better than CD doesnt really apply here, as both sony and ipod, being HD-based, wouldnt have jitter like a CD. Also, both sony and apple have settings to play back at high sampling rates so that doesnt differentiate them either.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11297_7-6510133-1.html

[whatever_man @ May 10th 2006 3:29PM]

Oh and a quick example of why drag and drop is so nice FOR ME?

I'm at work, I buy a couple of songs. I just want to plug my player into the usb port, drag some songs off, and put the new ones on. that's it! Simplicity and choice.

[arn @ May 10th 2006 3:35PM]

it would be REALLY FUNNY

if sony supplied the next chipset for iPods

sonys engineering + apple ipod = win win situation.

[ty @ May 10th 2006 3:35PM]

This iPod vs. whatever will be meaningless pretty soon. Phone mp3 players is where it will be at. Carrying around a phone and mp3 player will not make much sense except for a few cases (eg. swimming).

[wang_chung @ May 10th 2006 3:38PM]

oh yeah...I've been waiting forever for a decent mp3/phone. the rokr was disappointing, but i hear more are on the way from sony, samsung, nokia, etc!!! can't wait, til flash gets cheap enough for 20Gigs on a phone!!!

[CaptnCivilian @ May 10th 2006 3:41PM]

Hmm, I think I jumped to the wrong conclusion about jitter, have to read more about the engineering definition. Not sure how important a factor it is. What about signal to noise, distortion, dynamic range / hi frequency response, equalizer quality, impedance of the output (determining how big a headphone set it can drive) ...
The higher-than-cd encoding rate doesnt do much for me as Im ripping my CDs onto the player. Can you even buy better-than-CD encoded files?
Anyway, anyone know good web sites that really analyze this stuff?

[Michael @ May 10th 2006 3:43PM]

"You should read audiophile reports on the iPod. It is the best portable audio quality out there."

Link, please? There are better sounding players on the market (according to this audiophile's ears) but the iPod is by far the most popular. The bass issue is just one that comes to mind. I do believe you're talking about AAC as a format, not the iPod hardware.

That being said, I've been encoding everything into AAC since I got my 20GB 4G iPod. I have so much AAC encoded music now that any future player I buy must support it, so this is a great move by Sony.

[wiLey @ May 10th 2006 3:52PM]

The jeremy is right, in fact apple and sony bosses are known to be friends. if some of you may or may know bluray is supported by apple, and is on the board of directors. And though of course, business is business, both companies are bonded by the same goal: stop microsoft from controlling everything

heck sony MADE aac, well co made it, and let apple use it with no problems, thier relation ship is amicable, and though they may be competitors, thier is no bad blood between them.

in fact you can call sony and apple friends, but i have to say that i am no fan of sony connect, and i do use itunes, but tahts cause i cant stand windows media player.

[portorikan @ May 10th 2006 4:00PM]

Whatevah_ man... "12. Every music manager can do drag and drop, not just iTunes. And any music manager can handle all those formats...it's called "installing the codec"....sheesh. It's ability to drap-n-drop to and FROM the player natively that's so nice.

It's not about managing your music with "drag-n-drop" capabilities. It's the ability to manage your music with whatever software you choose to use. It's a little thing called "choice". It's music I paid for, I want listen to it where I please, not just limited to one computer and my ipod. Maybe you'll call me a pirate for liking my freedom...maybe you live the RIAA and MPAA slowly squeezing all your rights...but I'd rather have choice in the end. "


You do have a choice. You chose to buy an ipod which uses itunes. You shouldn't be surprised by this.
If you have problems with DRMed files, don't use th itms. Head down to Best Buy or wherever and buy your very own hard copy. You have the choice to do this if you want.

By the way, you can drop anything into the player from any computer. Just manually manage your music. Also, if you have issues with moving stuff off of your ipod you can

1. Back up all your files directly onto your ipod and copy them to any other computer you like

or

2. There are 3rd party options available to get your music files off of the ipod. For legal reasons, I'm sure you're smart enough to know what Apple did that.

[jefe @ May 10th 2006 4:03PM]

heck?

[Harbinger @ May 10th 2006 4:05PM]

Just because it supports AAC doesn't mean they won't 1) Mangle the headers like they so lovingly did with mp4 videos 2)Release non-DRMed content

So, still no threeway with AAC, iPod, and PSP

Not unless you're already doing it with the Korean PSPlayerMT homebrew media app.

Oop.

[Gordy @ May 10th 2006 4:28PM]

"Audiophile" Link: http://www.stereophile.com/news/071904itunes/

[Dreizehnernuss @ May 10th 2006 4:31PM]

"16. This iPod vs. whatever will be meaningless pretty soon. Phone mp3 players is where it will be at. Carrying around a phone and mp3 player will not make much sense except for a few cases (eg. swimming)."

Thats exactly my opinion and thats why i sold my NW-HD3 and bought a w800i phone.
The ability to drag&drop directly on the phone was another reason for me (SonicStage is perhaps the worst piece of software ever written).

If Apple doesnt come up with a DAP-phone soon, they'll lose the dominance they have now.

[Avinash @ May 10th 2006 4:32PM]

What I want to know is if Sony will trump Apple and support HE-AAC--which nobody else seems to be supporting; short of Winamp and The Core Media Player.

[Brett @ May 10th 2006 4:33PM]

"heck not to freeze over"

Really? You can't say "hell" in a blog headline? What the fuck is going on with censorship in this motherfucking, cocksucking country?

[Scott Madore @ May 10th 2006 4:51PM]

Has anyone used the BadApple software? http://www.badfruit.com/ With this software you should be able to use any player with iTunes.

[steve @ May 10th 2006 5:07PM]

Actually this is very big and a smart move on Sony's part.

A large amount of music (what you and er ... your friends ...have on CDs) gets encoded in whatever format is selected in iTunes when you rip for your iPod. For most people this means the default - 128kbps aac. There is much more cleartext aac on most iPods than purchased music from the iTunes store. On many iPods there is more aac than mp3 (not most, but many)

If you want to compete with the iPod in the US you have to go after existing iPod owners. This means compatibility with their libraries. Not that many are making heavy use of the drm'ed music from iTMS, but you *do* have to play all of that cleartext aac.

And since Sony is a member of the FADS consortium, they probably don't pay licensing (they get it for less than Apple). A very smart move that was probably done by Tim Schaaff.

[Galley @ May 10th 2006 5:49PM]

I would defintely be interested in a Sony player to replace my aging iPod, but, I already have a LifeDrive and a cellphone that play AAC files.

[p-diddy @ May 10th 2006 5:52PM]

>> You do have a choice. You chose to buy an ipod
>> which uses itunes. You shouldn't be surprised by
>> this.If you have problems with DRMed files,
>> don't use th itms. Head down to Best Buy or
>> wherever and buy your very own hard copy. You
>> have the choice to do this if you want.

Faced... with... logic... Don't... know... what... to... say..... AGGGGGHH

Seriously, people, vote with your wallet. No one is forcing you to buy DRM'ed music. If it is that repugnant to you, buy the CD. If the CD is DRM'ed, give the band the finger and don't buy it.

Repeat after me: I have no RIGHT to be entertained.

If you agree to the terms of iTMS, quit yer bitchin' and sleep in the bed you made.

I personally like iTMS for one or two songs, but I'll buy the CD because I want the physical disc to do with what I please. I accept that the singles I buy are iPod only. Thems the breaks.

-p-

[Jake @ May 10th 2006 6:34PM]

#30 I don't buy DRM'd music. My point in comment #1 is just that Apple is notorious for not being willing to open up FairPlay to other hardware manufacturers and it's obvious why -- so they can sell more iPod hardware which is where the money is for Apple now, especially since they get away with price premiums for being the "must have" device. I don't like it but I don't blame 'em for doing it.

#11 and #20, if it's true Sony was offered into iTunes and opted to go the ATRAC route instead, I'm not surprised in the least. Just another example of Sony shooting themselves in the foot by trying to lock people into proprietary formats that don't catch on (Apple's success with FairPlay must drive Sony insane).

It would make a tremendous amount of sense for Apple and Sony to team up on the portable music and video. Sony will never catch iTunes as a music store and Apple will never be able to offer the gaming that is on a PSP. The point being that no matter how cool of a video device Apple ultimately introduces, some are still going to prefer PSP for the gaming options. If they could all share data (and if Apple chose to include a UMD drive on their portable video device (for movies only, Sony won't share the gaming capabilities) -- which would not surprise me), they'd have a killer set of compatible hardware and software.

[tekdroid @ May 11th 2006 3:40AM]

Sony to support AAC = good, I guess.
Native drag and drop = gooder.

Loading up a mandatory application to get playable music onto your device that gives you (non-native) drag and drop is a drag (pun!). Using a separate (windows only / apple only) application to get songs OFF the ipod and onto your machine (or another machine) is a pain. This is all standard computer stuff. Floppy disc-stuff. HD stuff. It should be expected and available on the most popular devices. But it isn't.

Why does the idea of sharing media have to change with a portable audio device? The idea of a music management app is GREAT for many, I won't knock that, but for that to be the ONLY choice for a portable audio device to get listenable music on the device is restrictive and...simply dumb. That goes for the free 'management' apps for iPods too.

USB Mass Storage devices work on any modern OS without requiring third-party software. Going to *whatever* computer you like and taking songs (as well as giving songs) is what it's about. Having those songs playable, natively, on the device is what it's about. No fancy database formats. No behind-the-scenes lock-in.

So, I don't really have much love for SonicStage OR iTunes. They are both restrictive pieces of software that are artificial requirements for the hardware to play songs, and - in an ideal world - should only be a supplement to native drag-n-drop, to add some more integrated ripping/management of music - not the only way to get songs on there.

Easier music management and ripping of CDs: many out there are fond of it (rightly so, they are essential tasks), but in no way should they be REQUIRED pieces of software for the device to list and play music (and that goes for the iPod free and paid-for iTunes / management equivalents).

Any way you slice it, native drag-n-drop is more open than both SonicStage and iTunes. There are some native (OS-level) drag-n-drop devices out there that natively play what's dragged onto the device, but it's a shame there are (relatively) so few. The unnecessary reliance on mandatory software to encrypt and database-ify your music is, IMO, not good.

[AJ @ May 11th 2006 4:34AM]

Just wanted to voice my agreement with Brett on the hell thing. Unless it's an Earthworm Jim reference, in which case why?

[J Shaft @ May 11th 2006 9:53AM]

Everytime I read about this "iTMS v. some other program" crap, I've gotta laugh. I've had a RIO Carbon for the last couple of years, and all I have to do is drag n' drop.
It shows up like an external HD, and the player automatically categorizes every track into albums, artists, genres, year, etc. according to the MP3 tag. No re-encoding, no altering of the original tag info a la iTunes or whatever shit software iPod and Sony players use. That's the power of TRUE drag n' drop, outta the box. I can put ANY kind of file on there...it's like an external HD that happens to be really good at playing music too (5 band adjustable EQ, charge over USB w/o dock or propriety connection, transfer any file to ANY computer an infinite amount of times...yeah, iPod's great, people. A great steaming load).

Moment of silence for RIO. They really knew what they were doing, just didn't have the cash to be media whores like Apple. I know; I had 3 iPods before the Carbon, and it's outlasted them all.

If Sony (or anyone else) can come up with anything like the Carbon's form-factor and it's extreme versatility and ease of use, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[Paul @ May 11th 2006 5:57PM]

Rio Carbon - Don't compare that crap to an iPod

:)