AVCHD format will enable 8cm DVD-equipped HD camcorders

Sony and Panasonic-parent Matsushita have teamed up to develop an encoding format based on MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 that will enable future camcorders to capture HD footage directly to standard 8-centimeter DVDs. Called "AVCHD," the new format is able to handle numerous resolution/frame-rate combinations, including 480i at 60fps, 720p at 24, 50, or 60fps, and 1080p at 24fps (or 1080i for 50fps and 60fps configurations), and can encode audio in either 5.1 channel AC-3 or up to 7.1 channel Linear PCM. The advantages of this format over the current HDV scheme used with MiniDV cassettes aren't exactly clear -- although you are getting random scene access thanks to the nature of optical discs, recording time is cut down from around an hour with MiniDV to only 20 minutes at the AVCHD "average setting." Even worse, DVD players will require special software in order to read discs containing content encoded in the new format, and even then, they will obviously only play back at a maximum resolution of 480p.

[Via PCWorld]

[Scabies @ May 11th 2006 12:17PM]

You know, cause I have seven mics hooked up to my camcorder. Gotta make sure that my family's birthdays are in surround (with nice bass reflex)

[Jake @ May 11th 2006 12:39PM]

Fantastic!! Another new proprietary format from Sony. Just what I was hoping for.

[tekdroid @ May 11th 2006 1:43PM]

All posers. MiniDV = purpose-built high storage capacity, easy-to-edit footage with better quality and no prohibitive storage constraints necessitating the move to sub-standard MPEG4-based formats on sub-standard, capacity-limited disc.

[ty @ May 11th 2006 2:08PM]

Pros wont even blink an eye at this, but, this is perfect for the consumer market who wont do much editing aside from cutting. And 7.1 surround recording sells camcorders no matter how absurd that sounds.

What's weird is that this records straight to mini DVD .. which means that its intended to be popped right into a DVD player. But, how many DVD players will support playback of this new format? Things should get interesting once mini BD discs are released for this purpose.

[Michael Gray @ May 11th 2006 2:34PM]

Actually..

Since AVC H.264 is being used by BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, it would be EASY for most next generation DVD players to add support for reading AVCHD disks. I mean if you are RECORDING stuff in 1080p, then you probably want a true HD player anyways.

I would expect Blu-Ray (e.i. sony) players to support it.

[TMart @ May 11th 2006 3:16PM]

I agree with 3 - even though in theory this is "high quality" we all know mpeg4 encoding is going to make it look like shit. I'd take a cannon gl2 over this any day... disc formats are definitely prone to errors and editing would be a real bitch - time consuming decoding to avi or mov...

[TVGenius @ May 11th 2006 4:01PM]

Yeah... 7.1 channel home movies are great. All you ever hear from the left rear speaker is the camera operator breathing.

[Alex @ May 11th 2006 4:40PM]

Isn't is simple just to record to 1-2-4Gb CompactFlash directly instead of this stupid 8cm dvd?
Or to the 1.8" 10-20Gb HDD ?
Or to the 1" 5-10Gb HDD?

[Bob @ May 11th 2006 5:32PM]

Yeah, I'm surprised Panasonic is buying into this. I really expected them to come out with an HD/H.264 version of their D-Snap that records video on SD cards. Like the Sanyo HD1, but higher quality!

[Billy @ May 11th 2006 6:01PM]

You guys seem to be forgetting two crucial facts:
1) This camcorder will be capable of 1080p24. No consumer or prosumer or any other camcorder on the market under $10,000 is capable of this. Indie filmmakers will be eagerly anticipating how this will be.
2) The HDV format uses MPEG-2 compression, yet picture quality is still better in general than with DV because of the added resolution. HDV is also demonstrated to show no noticeable quality loss even after being recompressed after several generations. H.264 is by no means a "sub-standard" format, considering that it compresses much better than MPEG-2 and is the official video standard for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Besides ease of editing, the only reason that anyone would want to stick to DV is for better color and lowlight on the higher end models, like the GL2.

[tgold @ Oct 4th 2006 5:42PM]

"1) This camcorder will be capable of 1080p24. No consumer or prosumer or any other camcorder on the market under $10,000 is capable of this. Indie filmmakers will be eagerly anticipating how this will be."

Um. You must be forgetting the Panasonic HVX200. It records 1080 24p onto P2 cards. One can be had for around $7000 or less. This codec is worthless to indie film makers due to the nature of the compression. You would have to re-encode all your footage before editing. For families recording their vacation, its great because it has descent quality and doesn't take up much space.

[EatingPie @ May 11th 2006 7:40PM]

The advantage you're looking for in this camcorder over HDV?

HDV is limited to 1080ix1440, using a rectangular pixel. So it's not full-resolution HD. It is, however, running at a 25mbps, which gives an artifact-free MPEG2 recording.

Also, forget your 5GB flash card for anything but a few minutes of data storage in this case. You need tape... or maybe in the future, full-blown Blu-Ray... to handle data sets these camcorders produce.

I'm still very skeptical of anything that claims to put HDTV on a DVD, even when using "advanced" codecs. HD-DVD launched with advanced codecs, and still uses the 2-layer 30GB disc (which is a good thing, really).

-Pie

[Namarrgon @ May 11th 2006 9:29PM]

Just to put a few things straight:

"Pros wont even blink an eye at this" - Pros record HD video direct to hard disk, in dual-link uncompressed 4:4:4:4 RGB. Pros would laugh in your face if you suggested they squeeze their expensive talent into some two-bitrate, heavily-subsampled, overcompressed YUV format on some bizarro optical disc. Might as well ask a pro photographer to shoot direct to floppy on an old Mavica.

Second, many consumer HDV cameras support 1080p24, and have done for some time. The Sony HDR-HC3 costs only US$1500 MSRP.

Third, quality loss depends on compression bitrate of course, but ANY compression by HDV/MPEG2 or H.264 is noticeable, since they throw away 3/4 of the colour info before they even start.

[orville reddenbocker @ Jul 19th 2006 11:56PM]

the HDR-HC3 does not record in 24p. It recores in 60i. It has a option to shoot in fake 24fps, but from what I hear it degrades the picture quality, as well as making it a nightmare to edit. However, it's possible to convert 60i to 24p with several different pieces of software such as Avid and DVFilm Maker. Of course, getting the HDV off of the miniDV and then converting it is probably going to a helluva long time. I wonder if sony is ever going to make an HDD HDV camcorder? How many hours of AVCHD video can a 30GB HDD camcorder hold? Is it possible to have an AVCHD miniDV camcorder?

[Mohammad Ahsan @ Aug 16th 2006 11:21AM]

I am wondering whether this Sony AVCHD can be a good gadget for news gathering and if there would be a bandwidth saving if I uplink to base through a V-sat?

[NewTraveller @ Apr 2nd 2007 6:37PM]

I got the Sony Handicam that does this...HDR-UX1. HD was the least of my concerns. Where I was going, I had no computer connection to dump files from a hard disk, and I was going to see some relatives for the first time. Any available hard disk would have been full, even though I wasnt going to shoot at HD (except for the first mini-dvd). Tapes wouldnt work, as I needed random access to the video. I am quite content with the mini-dvds.

The HD video that I did shoot is as good as the HDTV I get at home. Excellent sound. Also, I can plug the memory stick directly into my TV. My only gripe is that there is hardly any software that supports it, and the software supplied by Sony converts the video to MPEG 2. In any case, this camcorder works for me. I do hope, though, that Sony (or some interested 3rd party) will come up with some decent editing/conversion software.

[Teacee @ Sep 10th 2007 9:31PM]

Apple ilife 08 takes use of the AVCHD technology, check there site for the list of cameras that have been tested. I am very please because the Panasonic HDC-SD1 works with ilife 08 but only on the Intel based Mac, sorry power pc users.

[Teacee @ Sep 10th 2007 9:34PM]

Apple Ilife o8 adds AVCHD including a list of camcorders including the one I use,the Panasonic HDC-sd1
that previously did not work with Apple, for a list of tested Camcorders check the Apple.com site for more details.