MTV and Microsoft launch URGE

Some six months after first announcing it, Microsoft and MTV have launched their URGE music service. The new service will be fairly similar to other subscription-based services that rely on Microsoft's PlayForSure DRM, and will offer 2 million songs, and have a monthly fee of $9.99, or $14.99 for a "to go" version that will work with PlaysForSure-compatible audio players. Of course, URGE will have one advantage that will inevitably help it make up for its late entry to the market: integration into the next version of Windows Media Player. That may cause some grumblings from the likes of Yahoo and Napster, though Microsoft has already settled with Real, so we suspect we're not going to hear them crying foul (besides, Real has been focusing most of its ire on Apple lately, something we think Microsoft will be perfectly happy to support).

[bob franklin @ May 15th 2006 9:35AM]

I will be switching from my yahoo subscription service at the end of the month. This looks fantastic!

http://www.publish.com/article2/0,1895,1962246,00.asp
looks like the demise of iTunes...

[Dark Zero @ Aug 21st 2007 2:42PM]

Looks like it might be time to drop my zune. Especially if the rumors of Apple getting into the subscription market prove to be true.

[jon @ May 15th 2006 9:39AM]

Sweet...more choice for all non Ipod/Itunes users. Without subscription service...Itunes is so behind the curve for sure.

Wondering if there will be any eventual integration with the 360?

[Scabies @ May 15th 2006 9:44AM]

only if I get better than freakin 128 kbps

[Jack Debian @ May 15th 2006 9:48AM]

How is this any different than the 10+ other Playsforsure ripoff music sites? Extra money per month to send to a portable player? Why all the extra complication and contractual obligation? I have a feeling this will not topple itunes, as it's technically inferior in every way. Reminds me of how the movie industry keeps coming up with disposable DVDs. No one wants them, they all eventually end up in a landfill somewhere, but the movie industry keeps pushing them on us. I want to buy something and then have it be mine. For ONE PRICE. This service misses the mark in so many ways, but it's all intentional. DRM with less rights, more expensive for portable use, it all shows just how greedy the music industry, and Microsoft through proxy, really is. I smell total failure.

[Rick @ May 15th 2006 9:49AM]

What makes this different than the other subscription services out there, except that it has a Vista-esque interface? While a number of people want subscriptions, the vast majority are not going that route.

Um... but it is shiny. Good for them.

[narrativium @ May 15th 2006 9:50AM]

The demise of iTunes? Only if it works with iPods. Keep dreaming.

However, it may be the first WiMP-based store to be moderately successful. And Apple really should add a subscription service to iTunes.

[Think Random @ May 15th 2006 9:52AM]

Looks okay, if you don't mind the nonsensical DRM. I'm sticking to iTunes, thank you very much.

Mind you, I'm obviously Apple slanted, which makes me correct.

(I'm not kidding).

[DS @ May 15th 2006 9:55AM]

HA! I give it 6 months. The interface is Shit, the price is not as good as napster (which is loosing money). This is basicly a day late a doller short. If it doesn;t work with iPod its over b4 it starts.

DS

[jon @ May 15th 2006 9:55AM]

http://reviews.cnet.com/MTV_Urge/4505-9240_7-31864344-2.html?tag=nav

Read the Cnet Review...there is lots that differentiates WMP 11 and the Urge integration. It seems like Urge does offer some coo new things. Also WMP 11 looks kick ass. I've always thought WMP was better and more robust than Itunes...but WMP 11 is leaps beyond any media player.

And remember WMP works with Windows Media Center...and therefor Xbox 360.

To number 4 who said
"While a number of people want subscriptions, the vast majority are not going that route."

That's only because the market leader Itunes...doesn't give their customers that option. But I assure you if Itunes had subscription service...everyone would take advantage of it. This is another case of "if it's not on Ipod/Itunes than it must suck"

[dave95 @ May 15th 2006 9:56AM]

UGly - looks like a mess compare to the iTunes

Does it offer podcast?
What really seperates it from the others?
What's with that hudge play button, am I blind?

[sinisterdesign @ May 15th 2006 9:57AM]

i'm glad that Windows users are getting a nice looking alternative to some of the less than stellar programs out there.

but bob, seriously, "looks like the demise of iTunes"? uh, no. to beat iTunes, you have to beat the iPod and vise-versa. no one piece of software OR hardware will do that. now i wouldn't be in the least surprised if Windows & Mtv team up to launch a player, but they've got a long, crowded hill to climb.

[confused @ May 15th 2006 10:02AM]

This is only good if they support single song purchase. I mean I don't constantly listen to music everywhere i go and most of my friends don't either. Sure if i happen to hear a song or 2 that i like I won't mind buying it to keep (which is key to me) So for me I just don't see any benefit in a subscription based system of 9.99/14.99 a month when I'll listen to a few songs a few times during the month.

The only thing that Itunes is good for is this. Once i buy the song and load it onto my ipod, I don't ever have to worry about the song again. Meaning I don't have to run to my computer every 30 days to renew my subscription license. I know it won't kill me and it's only 5 mins. But the point is that I don't have to and my music still works on my player.

I guess if you plan on listening to more than 30 + new songs each month then it's worth it.

[Zac Grose @ May 15th 2006 10:08AM]

#8, please tell me you're kidding. I mean, surely, nobody's that horribly wrong about anything.

[Reid Scott @ May 15th 2006 10:12AM]

Why switch to some microsoft gimmick when itunes has everything layed out perfectly with low prices. its just another crappy napster with a hope that mtv will draw in the teenage audience. If they want the teenagers they will first have to make some ipod type device to take over the market. Right now that is impossible so good luck. I am not against any other company because the more competition is better for the consumer I just think they will have to do something bigger and better then $9.99 a month

[Morton Salty @ May 15th 2006 10:15AM]

Ok, so is this going to launch in beta today or Wednesday...this thing is turning into another Vista. Jeez... $150 bucks a year to put songs onto my moby dick blue.. what a waste of time.

[JinKazama @ May 15th 2006 10:16AM]

To all people saying, "subscription is the only way to go..." "If itunes offered it people would do it..."

Read #11's comments...that's the view of the typical american consumer and the reason subscription services for music will not over take itunes.

[kibets @ May 15th 2006 10:17AM]

I wonder if there is a way to erase the Apple firmware from an iPod and upload Media Player 11 connectivity.

Someone who can write that code will surely make a tidy fee.

Think of all those iPods in need on an update...

[okram23 @ May 15th 2006 10:19AM]

you can buy one song at a time. Its so funny how people start saying "you can't do this, can't do that" but they don't take to seconds to read the link or find out.

The player got good reviews and i'm sure it will do ok for everyone without an ipod. I mean the new iriver and toshiba players are badass and atleast they get this good interface to go along with them.

If they get this to work with ipods, then that will be cool. I'm sure a hack will come out.

[greg @ May 15th 2006 10:26AM]

'That may cause some grumblings from the likes of Yahoo and Napster, though Microsoft has already settled with Real...'

blah blah blah

never goona be as good, popular or cool as iPod and iTunes. period

[Mephistophelian @ May 15th 2006 10:30AM]

"The player got good reviews and i'm sure it will do ok for everyone without an ipod."

Ummm ... who doesn't have an iPod these days?

[Jan Holm @ May 15th 2006 10:34AM]

I for one wont ever never in my life buy a single
DRM protected music file. Be it apple, microsoft and
whatnot. Fortunately my taste in music offers me a lot
of non drm alternatives. juno.co.uk - beatport.com - playwordandsound.net - traxsource.com to name a few. I feel sorry for those who get their kicks with shitty pop :-)

Who gets the problems with DRM, yup the ones who buy the music legally. Pirates have no problems. Use some sort of watermarking that can link a file to a person, but dont ever limit the use for the person that legally bought the music.

my 02

[Neil @ May 15th 2006 10:35AM]

What everyone keeps forgetting about subscriptions is that as soon as you decide to stop playing, all your music is gone. All the money that you had been pouring into the service has left you with nothing to show for it. And when you want to purchase a song or album, that simply adds more money to what you're already paying. Jobs knows this and this is why the iTMS is the way it is, and doesn't offer subscriptions. What you buy is yours, with or without ever having to pay for anything ever again.

[NNTPgrip @ May 15th 2006 10:35AM]

What the hell does MTV know about music anymore? If you told me that they were teaming up with Microsoft to allow for downloads of "Young losers whine on camera about other losers and how to best screw each other over" then yeah, but music?

Or VH1 where I can learn about Biggie and Tupac over and over (like anyone cared... ever)

But I seriously think MTV could have found someone to configure IIS for them and the Media Player 9/10 Encoder.

This is just the marrage of crap to Janus DRM. They just might have something though with America's music tastes. Idiots dialing up with AOL and downloading the latest track from "Talentless Whore", and loading it onto the cheapest 64MB DAP from Wal-mart. Why? because they can't wait a month to hear that song played every 15 minutes on a TV ad.

For this to be anything but dead on arrival will be ridiculious(which is what we are now in america so it might work). Microsoft will have to make it the default thing to come up in WMP11 for Vista & XP for it to make ANY money at all.

[Grant @ May 15th 2006 10:40AM]

I'm pretty sure aligning ANYTHING with the RealPlayer, or Real in general, is a good way to automatically killy something before it begins.

[Adamz @ May 15th 2006 10:42AM]

Isn't Napster already integrated with Windows Media Player? It's there in the Online Stores menu with a ton of other places.

[Tim @ May 15th 2006 10:44AM]

Meh.. here's what you do.

Get satellite radio, doesn't matter which one. Pick stations that offer real music, not the overprocessed crap that gets thrown out on top 40. Find bands you like. Buy their CDs. Check their websites first if they have them, buy direct. Rip CD to your favorite codec. Put on your favorite player.

Download-only music is just stupid. Anyone who pays for music that you can't do whatever you want with is just paying for obsolesence.

[Jason @ May 15th 2006 10:45AM]

Man... all you Apple FREAKS grow up... And what ever happened to buying CDs! Am I the only one left who would rather pay $11 bucks and get a CD that I OWN!!! You can rip a CD to ANYTHING and do ANYTHING with the songs!!!! DRM is such a waste of time!!!

Besides... are people that shallow that they don't listen to the GOOD songs that bands make and only listen to the top 40 songs? If you are then you are missing out on 90% of the good music. Most bands write "RADIO SONGS" that don't really reflect the band but reflect the top 40 crap that kids listen to just to get a fan base.

Apple sucks... I can't believe how blind Apple followers are... open your mind... other companies make good stuff too... just because there is no Apple logo on it doesn't mean that it sucks...

I have a few MP3 players (bought over time) and none of them are iPods... but then again... I bet you Apple idiots dont know what and MP3 player is... just to let you know... the iPod IS an MP3 player... not the other way around.

[Tim @ May 15th 2006 10:55AM]

Okay, look, Apple does not "suck". I'm no Apple apologist, even though I do own Apple stuff. This isn't about Apple, it's about being smart about what you spend your money on. If you don't like iPods, fine, but you can't change history and there are a lot of iPods out there and many, if not most people who own one, like them. Lots.

Building yet another download-only music service that offers yet another mind-numbing DRM "solution" is idiotic. MS just seems to be grasping at straws, chasing down markets that it already missed the boat on. It's chasing Apple for online music, it's chasing Google for search, etc. Maybe they should build a goddamn OS that's worth a damn, but I digress.

URGE is only good in one aspect and that is giving people another option. But it's still silly. Find bands you like, buy their CDs, rip the stuff and put it on whatever player you choose.

Why do people have to be so damn evangelical. You're not going to change anyone's opinion by saying things like "Apple Sucks" or "stupid MS fanboy", in fact using the term fanboy tends to invalidate your argument entirely.

[Futurist @ May 15th 2006 10:57AM]

I'm looking into my crystal ball and seeing this as being another copy cat floundering in mediocraty. It's immediately useless to Apple users, which is probably by design. It also begs the question of who at MTV is sleeping with who at Microsoft. Yet another reason for me to tune out MTV and anything it pushes. It's expensive (like all anti-ownership/subscription services) and doesn't work on an iPod. Are you seriously telling me that MTV is trying to get it's viewership to abandon their sheik iPods? LOL. What on EARTH are they thinking?

I suppose the thundering sound of failure when this falls flat will be another nail in the coffin for limited usage subscription services.

[greg @ May 15th 2006 10:58AM]

ha, Jason is the prime example of someone who will refuse to touch anything Apple because he knows when he does he will like it and that his windows shit will seem like AIDS in comparison.

go into an Apple Store with an open mind, pretend u know nothing then let them show what you can do with all their products the moment you get them home

[Futurist @ May 15th 2006 11:01AM]

re: TIM.

I love your enthusiasm for music but you're asking way too much from a consumer. The reason why services like iTunes are so popular is because they solve three issues:

1) The ease in which people can FIND music.

2) Instant gratification.

3) Integration of services and player.


To ask consumer to be actively involved in their purchasing habits the way you are suggesting is unrealistic. It's not that I dont' think that would be an ideal way to deal with things-- but it's just that. An ideal.

[James @ May 15th 2006 11:01AM]

If you're into the subscription model, then the Feed and Informer playlist functionality sounds really great.

Plus the interface is clearly much better than WMP10, and the 'browsing by art' is surely more attractive for most users.

Neither of these affect me, I like spreadsheet-style music libraries and I don't buy enough new music to make a subscription model worthwhile so I'm happy enough with iTunes.

BUT: what is all this grumbling about DRM, wrt to iTunes? It's so easy to circumvent that any argument against it just makes you seem really lazy and / or a bit stupid. Yes of course it would be better without it, but then you wouldn't have any content. At least with iTunes you have a pretty nice DRM (compared to PlaysForSure - charging 50% more to put it onto a portable device, and cannot burn onto CDs at all), and you can get around it so easily it may as well not exist.

As for buying CDs - what is this, OldGrumpyMen.com? This is Engadget, for Christ's sake - digital distribution is the present, it's convenient, cheap, better for the environment, no browsing in stinking shops, no surly shop assistants...sometimes I wonder.

[iDZ @ May 15th 2006 11:10AM]

This doesn't have to be the "demise of iTunes". It just has to work.

Toyota doesn't develop a car to be the "demise of Honda". The market can support them both.

Grow up.

[Jason @ May 15th 2006 11:11AM]

#28 (James) Buying music one song at a time is a TERRIBLE idea... If you want the music that bands make to be "made to sell" then fine... you will get music that all the other little kids out there want... Maybe you should just start buying Kids Bop albums :)

Personally I would much rather have bands make songs that they WANT to make... now you have the producers/lables out there looking at the iTunes and Napster stats saying... oh... X CRAPPY TRENDY TOP 40 SONG sold the best... so lets make 10 more of X CRAPPY TRENY TOP 40 SONGS...

NO THANKS!!! Get entire CDs!!! I don't care how convenient it is to download a single song... you are missing the point... it isn't about convience... it is about QUALITY... Pretty soon there wont be any difference in music... all the bands will be selling out trying to make music that sells... not good music.

[Eric @ May 15th 2006 11:20AM]

The only reason I will not buy music through these online music solutions is audio quality. I haven't seen a legitimate one yet that encodes higher than 192kbps, and in most cases less than that. If I can't get at least a 256k encode, I'll buy the CD, thanks.

[Jason @ May 15th 2006 11:21AM]

#26 (Tim) When I say Apple sucks it is because of the HUGE base of DUMB followers that they have... look at the posts on this message... how many Apple FANBOYS posted on here how this doesn't even compare to iTunes... have they used this new service? NO... will they? NO... why not? Cause Apple didn't tell them to...

Oh and I don't want to try to defend Microsoft but they tend to do almost everything they do better than most other companies... you gave your search example of them trying to catch up to google, yahoo, etc... I use MSN search because the results on it ARE more relevant to what I search for... Google has a terrible stanglehold on the search market... their search doesn't really return what you are searching for... it returns crap they they want to show you... Try some simple searches in both MSN and Google and I bet you will most often find what you are looking for with MSN first.

Don't get me wrong... I use google daily but it all goes to show the difference between perception and reality... there are TONS of better/cheaper MP3 players on the market... but any iPod owner wouldn't believe that... there are better search engines than google but most poeple dont know that... this may be a better service than iTunes but then again people don't care about what it better anymore... they just care about how cool they look using it... or how trendy the things are that they use.

[ohpoo @ May 15th 2006 11:26AM]

I HATE APPLE! I would love for Urge to bury iTunes so Steve Jobs can go cry like the crybaby he is...

Gates up : Jobs Down! Long live MS!

Oh yea, any DRM sucks - buy CDs you fuckwits!

[Thataboy @ May 15th 2006 11:28AM]

Notice how an article about WMP11 and Urge turns into a message thread about iTunes and iPods?

Enough said.

[ccunning @ May 15th 2006 11:30AM]

James, I'm down with digital distribution as long as its not lossy. I'm one of the few who thought the Valve/Steam/Half-Life two distribution method was amazing. But $.99/ track is not a deal in my mind. Not when it is substandard audio quality, and I don't actually own it (ie. I can resell it).

[ohpoo @ May 15th 2006 11:35AM]

iPods are what trendy wendies use.. cant stand you ipod wearing, Jobs willy wanting fanboys.. leave the dominant MS alone.. Gates owns your small insignificant Apple co... Gates saved Apple when it was on the brink of extinction.. Gates gives more to charity than Jobs spends on crappy polar neck jumpers, (and that's millions) iPods are second rate devices.. no matter what is said. But "cool" wins out in many cases as is this one, your DRM'd up to the hilt crap quality iTunes downloads are hilarious.. they sound like crap.. up the ante in the quality stakes and I'll buy MP3's but 128, 192 is pathetic/ 256 is ok but not great..

Jobs, if you're reading this - if I ever see you, I'm gonna take your white earphones and wrap em round your neck for turning the world into Apples drones devoted to your second rate regime armed only with second rate devices!

Gates up : Jobs Down!

[James @ May 15th 2006 11:37AM]

#32 & # 34 (Jason) I understand your point about pop music but fail to see its relevance to me. One of the reasons I buy so little music is because I am very picky about what my dollars go on.

I'm not sure I understand your direct link, that not buying much music = buying crap pop music. Not that I have a bias against pop music, by the way, that would be silly by definition.

Precisely because so much music is derivative, poorly-produced and full of zero talent no-hopers, I don't want a subscription. I also find that the vast majority of albums contain over 50% of filler. For the few that only 'work' if you have the whole album, or that contain more than 3 good songs, I'll buy the album from iTunes for cheaper than I can get it in the shops, with less hassle and easier to find - explain why this is a bad thing again?

The only person I agree with here is #33, Eric, who decries the quality of digital downloads - we want better quality!

PS: as for MSN search being better than Google, that is simply outrageous - any number of independent, qualitative, methodical trials have shown Google to be more efficient and accurate.

[LongshotX @ May 15th 2006 11:40AM]

Where can you download

[Jason @ May 15th 2006 11:49AM]

#39 (James) Check again about MSN... Seach yourself... don't go point at a study or survey... personally... when I am looking for products or companies or information about something I go to MSN... I get "quality" results in the listings... not results that just happen to have the most number of other google indexed pages linking to them... Googles formula makes them less accurate... you cannot account other pages linking to a page as a factor in search relevance... if a new company starts up and releases a product tomorrow I want to be able to see that in my search results... not just old crap that is outdated but heavily linked to...

Google is best for community based answers to questionsa and problems (google groups) but personally I have had problems finding things with googles web search... me personally... not a survey of people who like google....

As for the music... take something like Finger Eleven and their newest ablum... There are 2 songs on the album that are slow and "trendy" songs... they don't even come close to resembling the album as a whole... but those are the songs that hit the radio and are probably the most popular songs on iTunes from Finger Eleven... I really don't like those songs... they don't represent the bands other music, which is great... what happened to discovering music by listening to the other tracks on a CD? If you really LISTEN to music you can't make a I like this or I don't like this decision on a little audio byte sample of the song... you need to pop the CD in your car and listen to the whole thing... most of the time you will find yourself listening to the less popular music because it is better!

It sucks that things like iTunes just promote trendy and flood the music scene with CRAP.

[Andrew Stone @ May 15th 2006 12:03PM]

Here is what i dont get... this site is pretty geeky, right? We all wanna spend a couple grand on our stereos. A lot of these computers reading this prolly have subs hooked up to them. A lot of the readers here prolly have nice car systems. Yet we are arguing which system to use to buy music that is inherently less high quality, and makes those systems sound worse then they should for the money.

Get up out of your chair, drive over to Target, and buy the damn CD. You'll get something with art, maybe some lyrics. You can take the hard plastic disk that comes with it to, you know, play those sames songs you'd buy from iTMS or Urge, but then, when you wanna go outside, you can eject the sucker and take it to your car! It'll sound better, and you'll get some songs that the artists took the time to write but some dick at the record company didn't wanna make in to a single.

Its great! Really! Try it!

[Tomas @ May 15th 2006 12:09PM]

If you haven't tried wmp 11 yet, http://www.mygigabeat.com/2006/05/windows-media-player-11-available-now.html, go download it and try it before making any irrelavant comments.

I've tried it and it works great. I think people will be suprised at how good it actually works. It's not a cluncky MS application.

[mike @ May 15th 2006 12:10PM]

What I find funny is that Apple had nothing to do with any of your lives unless you were an apple user, now that they were the first to come out with an online music store and an iPod that became popular. Everyone hates them, I dont get it because if you do not like the ipod or the ITMS don't use it and dont complain to others about how much you do not like it and cant stand steve jobs. I personally don't care about any of these online music stores and I dont know why the discussions always come out like this...

[Coolfer @ May 15th 2006 12:13PM]

Even though I already subscribe to Rhapsody To Go *and* eMusic, I'll give this a test drive.

To those who can't get over the thought of "renting" music, it's only $15 a month. That's not much. Subscribing to URGE doesn't mean you can't buy a song on iTunes, or on URGE, or buy the CD. It augments what you've already got. After listening to something on Rhapsody for a while, I either buy the CD or move on.

Services like these are great for discovering and keeping up with music. (Judging from the many who think most albums are 90% filler, there's a lot of good music out there to be discovered. If you're listening to filler, you're listening to the wrong bands. It's that simple.) For active music purchasers -- and that's really who this service is for, let's be honest here -- I don't think this service is a substitute for buying music (CDs, vinyl).

eMusic is still the best out there, unless URGE is mind-blowing. No, eMusic doesn't have major label catalog, but it makes up for that with (a) MP3 format, (b) a great and growing roster of labels and (c) the best value. For those who aren't turned off by a music store that lacks Top 40 names, it can't be beat.

As for actually buying a song at URGE, no thanks. I'd rather rent the whole bunch. I don't mind renting DRM'd songs, but I'm not going to purchase one.

[James @ May 15th 2006 12:17PM]

Again I see your point Jason, but I don't have the cash to buy new CDs on a whim just because they might be good. Digital distribution allows me to listen to at least a sample of the album before buying it, another advantage.

Online music stores propogates just as much good music as people are willing to listen to. They have playlists, suggested similar tracks, recommended music, guides to genres and artists...Surely some responsibility lies with the user?

Why are you so against it as a concept? There are no differences between an album from an online music store and an album from a store, except the ridiculously-easily circumvented DRM (at least in the case of iTunes) and the low bitrate.

But the advantages are numerous: convenience, recommendations, cost, environmental impact, choice...

I have tried all the major MP3 players, and have found the integration between iTunes and iPod the nicest to use for my needs. The iPod has one of the best sound qualities (as long as you invest in decent headphones). Its design is pleasing to me. Its interface is the easiest to use, and it does everything I want it to do. What MP3 player is better, and why? I am interested as I only want to buy the best and will upgrade if you offer compelling reasons. BTW, other codecs don't interest me, I consider AAC to be adequate.

[Ripped a New One @ May 15th 2006 12:34PM]

The basic problem with people is that they just are blind followers. It is said that 95% of the world is following what the other 5% say or do.

When Steve Jobs says you don't need anything other than AAC and Mp3, claims that PowerPC is better than Intel chips then later replaces those chips with said Intel chips, Apple fans go nuts and accept this limitation and contradiction with joy.

When Sony releases a poorly built/ill equipped/overly expensive so called next generation machine, Sony fans go nuts and claim Kutaragi? is a genius.

The list goes on. Why don't you people just wake up and actually become good consumers. Don't buy products just because everyone else buys them, and certainly don't become a loyal brand whore.

Also, I believe buying a CD or an LP is much better than downloading a song. Remember when that guy with 10K worth of iTunes music got his HDD fried, what did Apple do. They told him to screw off. If you are going to pay for something, atleast pay for a real item, not bits of data.