Xbox 360 firmware hack enables "backups," older discs

We're not suggesting you try this, since, in addition to voiding your warranty, you run a real chance of bricking your Xbox 360, but we just thought we'd mention it: a new firmware hack for the 360, known affectionately as "Xtreme firmware for TS-H943 Xbox 360" by its creators, can apparently mod your 360's DVD drive so that it'll work with just about anything you can put in it, including "backup" discs made for both the original Xbox and the 360. According to about seven pages of posts on an Xbox forum, the hack does indeed seem to work, but only with 360s that have a Toshiba/Samsung DVD drive, and only if you're willing to take the time to follow the instructions very carefully. We'll pass -- at least until there's a version that lets the 360's HD DVD drive output 1080p video from protected discs over component cables. Make that work, and we'll happily risk bricking our 'box.

[Thanks to everyone who sent this in!]

[James @ May 15th 2006 3:48PM]

The link for the 360's HD-DVD Drive is bad....redirects to Google News saying its a bad link...

First Post..wooho!

[Balls @ May 15th 2006 3:53PM]

Sounds promising; but the biggest value of the 360, right now to me is XBL.

I wouldn't want to jeopordize my 360's access to the service by modding my 360. Other than it's ability to play divx files, at this point, my 360 doesn't lack features that I can think of (as opposed to the original xbox--which I hacked early and took real advantage of its capabilities).

Still it's early in the hacking game, so I'm sure the community will eek out some pretty bad ass homebrew stuff for the 360.

[paul Irwin @ May 15th 2006 4:13PM]

do component cables support 1080p? it probably could support 1080psF, since thats an interlaced signal, but isn't there a frequency issue there? i could be wrong.

[Carl le roy @ Jan 30th 2007 12:25PM]

1080p works fine for me

[pony @ May 15th 2006 4:15PM]

where's everyone?

[Zook @ May 15th 2006 4:22PM]

What do you think costco warrantys are for?

[blindbug @ May 15th 2006 4:30PM]

Just a heads up that the firmware works for SAMSUNG drives only at the current moment... Even so, the difficulty behind this hack (at the present moment) is far too great for MANY people to take advantage of, with an additional complication in that each game has to be patched to work with this (a release online will not work with it... yet), neither will discs not in your default region. Also note that this does not allow any homebrew code to run, just straight backup discs.

I for one, cannot wait for homebrew to be able to run. I forsee some great emulation on this, and alot more systems (PS or PS2 maybe?) :)... and a GOOD media center (the stock one is JUNK!!).

[pony @ May 15th 2006 4:40PM]

the problem is how would micro$oft know who made it?

it's in the freaking world wide web!

[pony @ May 15th 2006 4:43PM]

and again micro$oft might ban pirates from Live but i don't think people who cant afford original games has interest in playing online.

[particularly in small countries, which original games worth a fortune]

[mdc @ May 15th 2006 5:39PM]

@9: "[particularly in small countries, which original games worth a fortune]"

What do you mean in small countries? Here in the U.S. games are $60, that's not cheap.

I'm not condoning piracy, but I am saying that $60 is, imo, far too much for a game. But hey, what can we do? I have 5 games so far.

[Lattyware @ Jan 1st 2007 1:31PM]

You do realise in the UK the games are £50 - $100ish? Don't complain.

[Gekker @ Feb 28th 2007 7:22AM]

try convert £50 and you'll see $60 is cheap...

[BobDigi @ May 15th 2006 5:50PM]

umm your link doesnt work can anyone else post a working link?

[craptacular @ May 15th 2006 5:55PM]

mdc: that's the word "particularly" was for.

[Rob Stevens @ May 15th 2006 6:00PM]

Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on an HD DVD drive so I can find out if I can rip it out and put it in the Xbox 360 directly. That would be sweet.

[Robotron @ May 15th 2006 6:39PM]

Ok Engadget what is the obsession with 1080p?

I have been able to find one (count them ONE) TV in my city that supports 1080p. It's $18,000 for technology that will be half that price and obsolete in a few years.

When something great comes along (like a stable OLED) then many more people may care, but for now it's just too much money to pay for what you get.

Who wants to watch movies on their game system anyway?
The output is usually inferior to bargan-trash stuff that comes on the market a few months later (did we learn anything from the PS2? no? sad)

[batch @ May 15th 2006 6:43PM]

This sort of thing would have been nice BEFORE my xbox360 scratched up my games.
(And no the console had never been moved while it was on or even while it was off for that matter, except for the initial setup)
the console was setup horizontally, on a flat shelf, and nothing near by to shake it.
M$ support told me that was impossible and that the only way for disks to ever be scratched by the console is by moving the console with a disk in it.
(I just love basically being told I'm a liar by a company...needless to say I just returned the console to the store I bought it from)

I wish there was a media replacement program of some sort, heck if I could even pay 10.00 to get replacement disks I'd do it and buy a new 360.

Anyhow from my point of view being able to play backups would have been great!! I would have bought a new console, kept playing and have been happy; Plus I'd still be buying games/XBL/Accessories.

[Spirit @ Feb 18th 2007 7:05AM]

I too, wish M$oft had the balls to admit there is a problem with scratched disks. My console has ruined 3 games and what am I to do! I feel that I should be allowed to back-up originals and not have to fork out more coin because of M$oft's faulty hardware and security BS

[Matt @ May 15th 2006 7:15PM]

Component cables can theoretically take 1080p60, to my knowledge. This DVD player supposedly outputs 1080p over component: http://www.hometheatermag.com/discplayers/1205neuneo/
However, the review notes that there are NO tvs which can accept a 1080p signal over component, so unless Marc is running a Vidikron Vision One projector (which I believe could accept a 1080p analog signal from their Line Quadrupler) (http://www.avrev.com/equip/visionone/index.html) , his desired xbox hack is just plain dumb and adds to the misconceptions about 1080p displays and the usefulness of 1080p signals to any of the current products.

[serotoninzero @ May 15th 2006 7:26PM]

Hold up. First of all, I thought the 360 couldn't send out a signal higher than 720p/1080i in any case? And aren't HD-DVD's going to be 720p, not 1080p, while Blu-Ray are going to be 1080p? Thought that was the case. Atleast with one of those two things.

[HD Lover @ May 15th 2006 8:15PM]

#15, $18,000?!
Westinghouse makes a slew of affordable 1080p native resolution monitors starting around $2,500.

[paul irwin @ May 15th 2006 8:15PM]

serotoninzero: you couldn't be more wrong. anything that HD-DVD supports, Blu-ray supports, and vice versa. both support 720p, both support 1080i, both support 1080p. you could have an HD-DVD player that doesn't support 1080p output (but that doesn't mean it oculdnt play it, it would just resize it to another format like 1080i or 720p), or you could have a blu-ray player that doesn't support 1080p output. the formats use the exact same video formats and structure -- MPEG2 or AVC, maybe WMV9HD or VC1 or whatever its called.

[Lord Sludge @ May 15th 2006 8:58PM]

Wake me when it runs XBMC (in 720p/1080i).

/ Okay, and 1080p, too -- just for grins.

[Pork @ May 15th 2006 10:01PM]

Batch - As far as the 360 marking up disc's and their being a replacement program, there is one. If you happen to buy games from BestBuy they do offer a replacement plan for just a couple of bucks for scracth or non-working game discs. Problem is its only for one year and you have to swap for same titile.

[Shadowfire @ May 15th 2006 10:11PM]

I knew about this so long ago here is my post on a forum it has a link to it http://chumysquad.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=298
its kinda weird beacuse it hasnt been relesed yet

[K MAN @ May 16th 2006 12:50AM]

#2, "Sounds promising; but the biggest value of the 360, right now to me is XBL"

The hack only mods the firmware of the DVD drive in your XBOX360. This doesn't effect your XBL

#5 ""What do you think costco warrantys are for?"

Unfortunately, to apply this hack, you must open the case of the XBOX360, and plug in the drive to your computer's SATA port. and when you open the case, you avoid warranties by cutting the "Microsoft-Void Warranty" sticker

#7, "Another problem: Microsoft loves suing over these kinds of things. If not the people who use it, certianly the people who make it."

I doubt they will be suing anyone unless you attempt to eBay it after modding it. How will they catch you?

#10, "Would that mean it would be able to play other console's video games?"

No. They've said that you can run any XBOX360/XBOX 1 games. This is actually pretty nice, since most of XBOX 1 games are still not compatible with XBOX360. This tells me that Microsoft has intentionally blocked some games for performance reasons. They wouldn't want their consumers to purchase XBOX360 for the HiDef performance only to find out the the performace on old XBOX games lack good frame rates. This could hurt sales. So they've only "allowed" a few games to be played. The very games that has passed performace tests. So if the hack is applied, I'm assuming some games will run very slow.

#15, "Who wants to watch movies on their game system anyway?"

if it supports 1080p (1920x1080 res at 60 frames), I do.

#21, "Wake me when it runs XBMC (in 720p/1080i)."

Finally. Someone understands...

[Max Mitchell @ May 16th 2006 2:46AM]

Doesn't this mean that when the HD-DVD Drive comes out, it might be possible to put 5 360 games on one disk and play them in that? That would be ace! Not that I would do it though!

[FRANK THE TANK @ May 16th 2006 3:38AM]

#15

I'm surfing on my 1080p Westinghouse that I paid $1,800 for, not $18,000. Why is it that people post stupid comments like that and at the same time try to sound like a technology expert. Best Buy sounds like your perfect career, they never know what they're talking about either.

I have my 360 hooked up via VGA, so would I be able to get 1080p on the HD-DVD drive? Or would it have to be digital? (DVI, HDMI)

[Karl Viklund @ May 16th 2006 3:50AM]

I realy hope Microsoft fix this in future version of the Xbox 360. The only reason that people want to hack the Xbox 360 is for pirated games. There is realy no other reason. At least all people I know that chipped their Xbox did it for the pirated games. But, even if it's not because you want to run pirated games it's wrong. Console makers sell the consoles to a very low price, hoping to make back the money on games so it's realy just low by people trying to hack the console trying to take advantage of the situation.

So listen up! Don't be cheap! o and buy the games! People developing games are getting food on their tables because of people buy the games. Don't come with "They make enough money anyway" or something. That does not give you right in any way to pirate their work. On the PC-platform pirated games are already a big problem. When Quake 4 was released for PC, it was downloaded over 100.000 times from BitTorrent sites just the first 24h. You can guess the Company got pissed. And infact, because of such things, more and more companies are putting more resources into developing console-games instead of PC-games since it's harder to pirate which makes it more profitable. But some people looking to crush that market too. I just tell you, buy the games you want. It realy feels much better to buy the game if you realy like it.

No. I don't work at any gaming company or at Microsoft or anything. I'm just saying that I think it's wrong to hack the Xbox 360. Or the PS3, when it comes out.

[bDavid @ May 16th 2006 7:34AM]

um could someone have rolled/wrinkled that ugly t-shirt in a more crumpled fashion, i hope you didnt give that to her in that condition...uh like 'heres an old t shirt that was rolled up in a ball .. ya want it'..? oh but only if you hold it up and show us the wrinkles and let us take your photo CHUMmmmmmmmmP!..

[kappa @ May 16th 2006 8:45AM]

#24
The concern on XBL is that MS will be easily able to detect the change in the firmware and then be able to ban your xbox 360 permanently, just as they did with the XBOX.

And, it will only run XBOX 1 games that are supported, not ALL XBOX 1 games. All XBOX 1 games have to be emulated, which requires lots and lots of coding and testing. It would be almost impossible to make every XBOX 1 title compatible with the 360, at least with the hardware implementation that MS chose to go with. Read the forums on xbox-scene.com for more information.

Wait for teamxecuture to come up with some kind of firmware switch, so you can disable the hack when going onto XBL.

[Joe from Cincy @ May 16th 2006 11:02AM]

Want cheap games? Gamefly. If you like the game, keep it at a price up to $20 cheaper than original price.

www.gamefly.com

I don't believe people are already hacking their 360. I would have thought people would have at least waited until it was under $200 in case they bricked it.

[Benjamin @ May 16th 2006 11:08AM]

Heh, I already have a $700 investment in my 360. Don't think I'll be modding it until long after the Xbox 720 comes out. ^_^

[Arizona Glover @ May 16th 2006 11:11AM]

"Who wants to watch movies on their game system anyway?"

Me.

[Art Guy @ May 16th 2006 11:22AM]

.

FRANK THE TANK -

Robotron was talking about HDTVs, that's why he used the word "TV". Native 1080p HDTVs are not cheap, the cheapest decent one I can find is around $6000.

That Westinghouse you own isn't a HDTV, it's not even a TV, it's just a big monitor, that's why it is cheap. Westinghouse doesn't even make HDTVs, they are listed as HD monitors. You are comparing apples to oranges. Can you watch broadcast tv on it without buying a converter box? Does it have a remote? Can I plug my cable line right into it? No. It's just a large (yet low resolution for it's size) computer monitor.

[bored guy @ May 16th 2006 12:04PM]

Art Guy --

Westinghouse does make HDTVs. Their 1080p displays are monitors, but they make 720p/1080i displays with tuners.

Also its very easy to find a 1080p display with tuners in the 4k range, but since nothing is even broadcast in 1080p I'm not sure why including a tuner in a 1080p display is such a big deal for ya..

[FRANK THE TANK @ May 16th 2006 12:27PM]

Art Guy

I know it's not "technically" a HDTV, but the only thing it's missing is the tuner. How many people actually plug their cable directly into their HDTV? My service has VOD and other features that I wouldn't get if I didn't hook up my cable box. I agree with Bored Guy, it isn't a big deal and I think Westinghouse is very smart to leave it out. If I got a $4,000 1080p HDTV my setup would exactly the same, but I saved a lot of $$$.

So in all reality we're comparing grapes to seedless grapes here.

P.S. It has a remote, lol.

[another guy @ May 16th 2006 12:29PM]

Art Guy - most people who view HDTV do not do it over the air (via the tuner). Most get it from cable (and not via CableCARD) or from DirectTV or Dish network. As such, they don't use the tuner in their TV anyway.

Anyway a friend has a Sharp 45" direct-view LCD that accepts 1080p does indeed have a remote and a tuner. It does have CableCARD, but he uses his cable box instead, since it has a PVR. I can see where he's coming from there, I had an HD-capable display for over a year before I finally got an HDTV receiver for it, because my lifestyle doesn't fit any tuner that isn't a PVR. I simply cannot be home to watch shows when they air.

Anyway, he got his 45" Sharp Direct-view 1920x1080 (1080p input) LCD for $3300. That's not bad, is it? It's a lot less than $18K.

You can find it here for about $3500.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=4177578

I'm sitting right now in front of a Dell 24" monitor I got for $640 that accepts 1080p (although mine, unlike the Sharp mentioned above doesn't do HDCP) too.

So 1080p is a lot more affordable than you think.

Anyway, the reason to have 1080p is because there are two major formats of HDTV, 1080i and 720p. ABC and ESPN use 720p. NBC and CBS use 1080i (I forget which FOX uses). If I want to watch each of them in their highest quality, I need to switch modes between them as I switch channels. Because 720p has too many frames per second (60) to be converted to 1080i (which has 30 frames, 60 fields) and 1080i has too much spatial resolution (1920x1080) to be converted to 720p (1280x720).

So I have to switch modes all the time and my TV has to resync and it flickers and such.

But, if my TV (and my HDTiVo) did 1080p, then the 1080i could be converted to 1080p and the 720p could be converted to 1080p and I wouldn't have to adjust my set all the time. And on top of that, I could watch movies or perhaps even play video games in 1080p.

And that's why my next HDTV will have 1080p input (and rendering) capabilities.

[Jason @ May 17th 2006 11:09PM]

I have a Sony 50 inch (720P) res. I don't have to switch settings if the signal switched between 720p or 1080i. So it's the TV not just that you need a 1080p TV there another guy #36. The Sony KDF-E50A10 is a great deal at 2299 price point, and sometimes on sale for less. To add to this, from a price standpoint, you can't get a broadcast signal in 1080p yet, and from the way it looks, might be a while off. If 1080p ever becomes the HD standard, it's going to be time to get a new TV anyways, so why spend the extra money now?

Not to mention the difference in 1080i and 1080p is actually small in comparison to what the human eye can see. Most people that can tell the difference only sees that it isn't quite as smooth. For price i'll stay with my Sony at 720p or 1080i or $2299 and play my 360 and Eventually my PS3 at that res until 1080p is more excepted by the networks.

[TMM @ May 18th 2006 7:26PM]

Well, was thinking, if you can run backups, then why not sign XBMC with the XDK Debug Keys, Create an xISO, and Burn, Presto! XBOX CD that might run if debug keys are accepted.

[rom.wii @ May 22nd 2006 7:45AM]

So does this mean that I can download ISOs from net and play them on my modes xbox360?

[The Schizo @ May 22nd 2006 4:07PM]

#39, yes, but if these games are using 2 layers, the download will be HUGE... You will save much time with a gamepass at blockbuster. I had one w/ my old XB, and I could rip 4 games in as many hours... $20/month.

#37. Have someone look at your setup, I've never seen anyone having to switch modes as they switch channels. I've got a Sharpvision DT-300 and it shows the input signal as you change channels, 480p, 720p, and 1080i and it's seamless. The only thing that takes forever is my POS Scientific Atlanta 8000HD

#15. HDTVs are overpriced. All TVs are overpriced. I advise you all to get projectors and save your back, pocket, eyes, roomspace, etc.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7705897&type=product&id=1138085317167

[Grunt @ Sep 8th 2006 10:44AM]

If you want to open your 360 and flash it, I say you should remove the warranty sticker with a hairdryer. Just put it on high and heat over the sticker. Once it gets hot enough the glue should begin to melt and you can easily take it off slowly with a razor blade while still applying heat. To retain its stickyness so to say, you should put it on wax paper and keep it in a safe place, so if you mess up just pop it on and return it.

[Eq productions @ May 4th 2007 5:47AM]

@FRANK THE TANK what is meant by 1080p over component cables is hi-def cables come in 2 flavors component and hdmi what was being said right now is 1080p currently can only be supported over an HDMI cable not component component cables for the most part. i know olhaussen makes a set that will accept 1080p but for the price buy a car. component cables have 5 wires a gren , red, blue for the video signal, and a red and white one for audio and look like a normal rca plugs, hdmi is a cable with one connector for both sound and video with a whole lotta pins inside the connector.