Oh, this is going to get good. Turns out Apple sued Creative for patent infringement
the very same day that Creative
filed suit against Apple. We're guessing Apple had a suit waiting in the wings just in case Creative tried to pull something, because a Creative spokesman said that "Creative proactively held discussions with Apple in our efforts to explore amicable solutions," and that "at no time during these discussions or at any other time did Apple mention to us the patents it raised in its lawsuit." There's no word as to what the patents refer to, but it sounds like they cover stuff outside of the "
Zen Patent" realm if Creative didn't know about them. This surprise attack is at least a minor win for Apple legal, but we're sure Creative's team won't go down without a fight, so grab the popcorn and prepare to enjoy the beauty of modern day patent law.
[Via
iLounge]
posted May 19th 2006 12:40AM
if you like them so much, buy some Creative stock.
Seriously. Put your money where your mouth is. If you think Apple is gonna pay ROYALTIES to that POS company, buy stock now while it's (INCREDIBLY) cheap.
;)
First off all mp3 players are the same, microdrive, a battery, and some sound output. The specifics that matter is software, sound quality, and battery life. In my opinion Itunes sucks, no freedom, however creatives it just basically a drive in your my computer. Also who needs 20000 songs on there mp3 player, the companies should scale everything down to about 10 gigs, make a good UI, increase battery life and sound quality, make them tougher. I dont know why the memory size kept increasing. The CPU companies finally got it right and now intel may finally be able to come back with conroe being more efficient than the pentium d's. All in all I think creative is more user friendly, and apple products can be good, but everything else is better, just look at the PC's they out perform apple in performance and price.
Sorry Apple
#48 "Nobody owns a Creative player... their software support is horrible and the sound quality is suspect"
Hahaha, thats a good one... sure, creative sound quality is "suspect", considering they have some of the highest s/n ratios in the mp3 player business, and years of experience manufacturing premium sound cards... do you know what kind of s/n ratio the ipods have? no? well that cause apple wont release the specs of that...lol
btw have you ever touched a creative player in your life?
I have my zen, no problems whatsoever. But most of my friends with ipods, all i ever hear about are problems...
their sound quality isn't horrible, I actually think its better, and I all I needed for software was the playforsure. I could use Napster, Windows media player, explorer, almost anything. Nobody uses the apple lossless except audiophiles and nerds. I love it because I dont have to depend on itunes. THe only thing I wish I had was a program for podcasts, but thats my only problem, otherwise I'd recommend my zen to anyone.
-A creative mp3 player owner.
There is no "beauty of modern day patent law."
If suing is Creative's competitive strategy, that's pretty sad. They come out with a player that costs as much, is twice as thick and isn't as easy to use. To beat Apple, they will have to build something that matches Apple and then build extra functionality and make it cheaper. At that point, they will have a competitive product. Until then, sue away Creative. Apple has $8B+ in the bank.
They're both yoyos. Shut up, you yoyos!
God damn it's exciting to see so many people who have hitched their wagons to their corporate overlord of choice.
Look people, it's just stuff. If some company pisses you off without specifically doing anything that damages you in any way, then you've totally lost it. You should hit the road, go on some long journey of self-exploration.
Because in the end Apple and Creative really don't give a crap about your loyalty or your hate, they only care about your money.
Stop being such mindless drones. Research. Demo. Shop. Buy. Why on earth would you spend one nanosecond of your precious time flaming some company that doesn't meet your lofty expectations? Let it go.
@all:
Your well-informed and even-handed opinions are both important to the outcome of this case, and important to me as the owner of either an iPod or a Creative Zen, because I give a shit about what anyone else thinks about my choice of mp3 player.
Thank you all so much.
heh. can you tell it's raining on the east coast this morning?
I love the way people generalise all apple products based on the failings of the iPod.. "Apple products = a beautiful blond model that can chat you up and make you feel "special" but she's really an airhead and stupid inside." says Tnyc.. after spending thousands of pounds on PCs through my life, and having no end of fuckups, I move to a mac and have not one problem, just a powerful and easy to use computer..
I hate fanboyism of any variety, because it's ridiculous. Its counter intuitive. I like apple products, they work well for me and I'm not fussed about paying the extra price, I am also willing to fork out for something that looks cool.
Other people like Creative products, fine by me, if they get what they want out of it then who am I to complain?
The jog wheel is clearly not the same as a scroll wheel, only an apple hater would choose not to see the difference. Sure they are similar, and yeah maybe apple borrowed a bit from one, but in a court of law it wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
And someone also made the suggestion that any 'apple fanboy' saying that copyrighting a heirarchial directory is a stupid idea is 'ignorant' because they don't realise apple tried to do the same thing. Erm, what? So what if Apple tried to trademark it, that was a stupid idea for them too - doesn't mean Creative should be allowed to do it..
I don't know why people want iPod (and by extension, apparently all of Apple..) to die. Noone is making you buy Apple products. And in the computer industry, we all know that Apple is far from being the main player.
'Fanboy's spend all day telling each other how wrong andd how idiotic the other is.. when they all are. This is a CONSUMER electronics blog people, try to act like CONSUMERS. Buy what YOU want/need for your own reasons.
Question for Creative Vision: M fans!!
Why did they go with a scratchable surface when their earlier players had scratch resistance surface? hmmmm
Why did they use a none removable battery when earlier player had easy removable batteries? hmmmm
Why do you have to connect a dongle to the player first before you sync or charge it? hmmmm
Why only support XP when their earlier players supported older OS? hmmmmm
Why is the players touch surface so sensitive, even after adjusting the sensitivity to its lowest? hmmmm
But yet the creative fans would say the Vision: M is sooo much better than the iPod because hey look better video quality, and twice the battery for video. The iPod could have the same amount of battery if they made it that thick also.
Sorry for the 'fanboyish rant', just answer some of the anti-iPod people who always seem to be full of rage.
Not to mention that wanting any source of technology to die is idiotic. What drives innovation? Competition. Without Apple and it's iPod, where would Creative be? Where would any of the major music player companies be? They're all adding all of these features you love so much because they're trying to take marketshare away from Apple. You may hate Apple, but if you want more options and more features, you need them.
So let me get this right.
1) Creative aspproaches Apple re potential patent infringements and holds discussions.
2) Discussions break down
3) Creative starts Patent suit against Apple after the discusssions they started failed
4) Apple starts suit against Creative for potential patent infringements which were never raised during disussions between the 2 companies
Hmm Let's say you were a Judge asked to begin mediation. Would the first question be?
"Apple, why did you not raise these new patent issues withy creative when the 2 of you sat down to discuss Patent issues?"
Doesn't it appear, on the surface, that one company is aprroaching the issues in a workman like pragmatic fashion and another is not?
To #7
I'm a student at a Canadian university. I checked the prices of the new Macbook as soon as they were announced, and was quite pleased to find the 2.0 gHz model to be $1349. Now, if you know where I can get these Core Duo Acers for $150, please, let us know.
#23
^you could just check out ipodlounge.com: they have half of their site dedicated to all the stupid problems people are having with their ipods, more threads are started their everyday for ipod problems than for anything else.^
I did check their site out. There are 1,690 threads about Mac + iPod problems. There are 8,691 threads about Windows + iPod problems. There are 45,887 threads on discontinued models. There are 9,789 video iPod threads.
You were wrong.
^then check out that apple fansite, CNET: the Zen Vision:M has been the #1 - and often BOTH the #1 AND #2 - most popular mp3 player going on 2 months straight, now. The ipod's not even on the list...^
I just checked C-Net. Editors' Top MP3 Players
updated May 16, 2006. The Nano is #2. and there are no Creative products in the top 8 flash based players. HD players- Ipod is #1, Creative is #2. See for yourself ( http://reviews.cnet.com/4521-6532_7-5021434-3.html?tag=dir )
^Or check out CNet's recent "Top 10 must-have A/V devices": the ZVM is #2, behind the TiVo Series2DT. The iPod's not even on the list.....^
Wow, you're RIGHT this time! Written " By CNET staff."
Get your facts right before you close your mind to other possibilities.
Oh, and before I leave : OMGWTFBBQ you R teh lamest EVAR!!!!!1111one iPod RUleZ!!!!! l4m3r!!!!!
Both Apple and Creative are doing what any company would do when neither can truely dominate the market place with their products. And that is sue the competition out of business.
Neither Apple nor Creative will win this one. Because if you look at their lawsuits you can see that prior art exsists thus rendering each suit invalid. Just two kids on the block fighting over who is the best.
Creative has a good product, albiet not as shiny and pritty as Apple's. Creative just needs to get more Creative when it comes to design and advertising.
Apple on the other hand could truely dominate the market with their Ipods if they would just support more codacs then their own proprietary codac. Ya, ya, their current business model doesn't support the allowance for multiple codac support, but it would go a long way to showing that Apple listens to and cares about their customers. Thus increasing customer loyalty which which in turn translates to increased sales.
I for one, will not buy an Ipod just for the reason that it is a proprietary device forcing my to use their service. Competition keeps prices low, but without competition you have to pay a premium as you do with Apple's products and services.
Good products with an ill advised marketing stategy. Yes, they are a very profitible company, but they could have been the a whole lot more.
lol some of you don't get it. There is no perfect player. Both the ipod and the zvm has its advantages and disadvantages. It's just a matter of preference and what you want to do. If you want to just simply play music then you can choose the ipod as simplicity is what it's aiming for. If you want to watch videos without reencoding most of your collection then you can go with the zvm. In the course of 2-3 years I have bought 5-6 players and recently just ordered an ipod nano. I don't favor either one as I have yet to find the perfect player. No matter how much I yearn for it, it will never exist because Apple and Creative are just too different in what they want in their players (except earning money of course).
It is true that zen software isn't up to par with itunes, but I have seen a significant improvement in its software going from a zen micro to a zvm. It is not perfect but it is definitely improving.
As for people saying how the zvm can do more and that the ipod sucks because it doesn't doesn't realize that ipods are built for simplicity in mind. That is why people buy it. They don't want to deal with all the complicated (to some at least) stuff that normally comes with other players (even though that some think it's not complex because they're technologically adept). The only thing I hate is people who buy the ipod just to look good and it just remains in their pockets most of the time. Isn't that what clothes and jewelry are for?
As for saying how forums for ipod and zen players is littered with problems, it is only littered with problems because most people would never post if there's nothing wrong with their players. Why would you if there's nothing wrong with your player? You could praise it but then people would look at you funny and say "hello we own one too!"
As for Apple stealing the jogwheel idea from sony, the jogwheel and clickwheel is just too different to even think it was stolen. You might as well say that sony stole their jogwheel idea from all the knobs we use on electronics everyday or the doorknobs we turn everyday.
And to stay true to the topic of this article (if the suit is even about the interface), I think there will be no case at all just because as it was mentioned earlier the zvm interface is different and that stealing hierarchial menus is like that company who claimed ecommerce was theirs and wanted to sue online businesses for using ecommerce.
"The scroll wheel is nice, but it gets annoying to scroll through the 30GBs of music I have, and I can't imagine how long it would take for someone with 60GB of music"
I have 60 GB of music, and it's very easy:
I either go to my playlists section, where i have about 30 playlists set up. Or I go to my Genres section, click on that, which then lists each artist in that Genre. Then I find the artist I want, and click on the album by them I want to listen to.
Makes it a lot easier than scrolling through a huge list of every album, much in the same way its a lot easier to find programs by genre in a PC's start menu than if all the programs were just listed in one list.
"There's nothing better about the iPod, limited formats, disgusting iTunes quality, a battery situation that has remained stupid and consumer unfriendly since it's debut so many years ago, not to mention it has done almost Nothing to improve itself by comparison to the Zen."
Except that there is a 60 GB iPod, and there is not a 60 GB Zen Vision:M (unless it came out in the last few weeks). My music collection is bigger than 30 GB & the #1 I bought a player was so I could carry all my music with me to work, in the car, etc. So the Vision:M wasn't even an option for me.
As far as the limited formats and disgusting quality of iTunes goes - that's really the music store you are complaining about, right? Most people just download their music from Bittorrent anyway, so I don't see how that matters when you are talking about the hardware.
If by limited formats, you mean it doesn't play FLAC or something (I'm unsure if iPods do or not), then I guess that might be a problem for some people, but my collection is all high-bitrate MP3, FLACs are too big for my taste at this point. I'd rather have my whole collection on my player than have a third of it, I don't think my ear is good enough to tell the different between a quality MP3 and a FLAC anyway.
all i can say is you guys need to get a life. i have nothing against creative, i LOVE cambridge sound works, a smaller company within creative. I have owned a iPod since the 1st generation and every one subsequent. So yes, maybe I am biased, but I use an iPod because 95% of the time it just works. Technology has problems, even creative too...so guys, they are both infringing on their patents. creative is suing a company MASSIVELY larger than their size, and they are getting what they asked for.
and also, for you people who have no problem with Microsofts DRM and have an issue with FairPlay, get a life. Last time i checked Microsoft has not licensed most of their new DRM to work on macs, so hows that fair. FairPlay works on any machine that has iTunes and any iPod, no one is forcing you to buy from the iTunes Music Store. If you want something, get it, its your money.
Apple is popular, and smart, Creative is jealous that Zen can't compete. And I am rich, what can I say. hahaha
I own both a Zen and an iPod and both have their disadvantages and advantages, but I couldn't live without either.
All I can say is stoopid is as stoopid does. If people want to continue buying into Apple's trendy-ass way of doing everything, we are all in trouble. These same people are the ones rubbernecking traffic accidents on the freeway everyday.
I have used everything on both sides of the fence from the first Apple PC to Linux based PCs to the Creative Zen Nano. In my personal experience the new wave of Appleism is just a snippet of how willing people are to be cows in life. The Creative products are more user friendly, they can work with Mac and PC, they do what they say they do it without hassle and for a better price.
The only time an Apple products work flawlessly is with other Apple equipment, period. iTunes is a strain on anything that is not a Mac and you can't move purchased music around, even on your own network, without licensing issues. How on earth is that sooooo cool when you don?t get that with Creative?s stuff?
Creative has always got the short end of the stick in the new digital music world but only because the Windows side of things encourages different manufacturers to be compatible with each other, and thus, fair competition between companies. The truth is, Apple is becoming way to powerful and is guilty of being the biggest ego-maniacal company to date. Why does Microsoft get such a bad rap when they don?t manufacture the PCs running their software, and Apple is a god for holding down everything they put out?
People are cows!
"The Creative products are more user friendly, they can work with Mac and PC, they do what they say they do it without hassle and for a better price."
My iPod works fine with my PC. I've never owned a Mac, and never will.
The cheapest price on pricewatch.com for the 30 GB Vision:M is $299.99. The cheapest price for the 30 GB iPod? $277.00
The cheapest price for a 60 GB iPod? $369. The cheapest price for the 60 GB Vision:M? It doesn't exist.
So, how can you say the Creative products do it for a better price? Maybe pricewatch.com is somehow biased... so, if you can find me a site that sells the Vision:M for much less than the 30 GB iPod, let me know.
"The only time an Apple products work flawlessly is with other Apple equipment, period."
Maybe in your experience, but I have never owned a Mac and have no problems syncing songs and so forth.
"iTunes is a strain on anything that is not a Mac and you can't move purchased music around, even on your own network, without licensing issues."
Maybe this is true, but I (like most people) have never purchased music online, nor do they plan to. Though no one I know that does buy music has ever complained about these issues.
2nd Gen iPod owner here...I would say I only bought one to conform to the rest of the world(No one knew what an iPod was and I got asked every 5 minutes)...Why do people argue over stuff like this. Just go buy the creative zen and be better then everyone else if that is what you think is better. I prefer my 3g iPod I have and if I were to get something new it would probably be the new 5g. I would not get a creative cause I dont use WMA(Bad mac support) OGG and FLAC dont bring much to the table for me and everything I have is AAC or MP3 and converting my whole library would be stuid. So Stop arguing about what is better and get a life.
"So let me get this right.
1) Creative aspproaches Apple re potential patent infringements and holds discussions.
2) Discussions break down
3) Creative starts Patent suit against Apple after the discusssions they started failed
4) Apple starts suit against Creative for potential patent infringements which were never raised during disussions between the 2 companies"
So What? Apple is supposed to help Creative? I know they need all the help they can get, but ... Jesus! During these so-called negotiations, they never asked Apple about their patents? Never had a lawyer research the issue? They didn't read Appleinsider which mentioned these patents almost a year ago when this issue first arose?
The fact is: Creative was attempting to hold Apple over the barrel with very little ammunition. Apple had plenty of ammunition (money, better lawyers, and their own patents) and they were quietly preparing them.
Creative runs themselves into the ground by behaving like amateurs... Boo hoo!
Notice how people haven't figured out patent #s yet and didn't even know about this until several days later: Apple deals with its business quietly. Creative looks for a little bump in its stock price by throwing the lawsuit and foolish statements all over the web.
#49 - when did ipod become the choice of audiophiles? I would go with Cowon X5L there, as it supports .flac (lossless) and .ogg (sounds better than .aac at same bitrates). I'm not saying that the Apple isn't more popular or user-friendly, but the X5 whips the ipod on pure sound quality.
And in other news...
In a flurry of legal activity Creative has mistakenly sued Apple Corps while attempting to issue a counter counter-suit against the iPod maker.
Spokesmen for the surviving Beatles had no comment.
"Also who needs 20000 songs on there mp3 player, the companies should scale everything down to about 10 gigs"
This might be a good idea for you, but I personally don't like having to deal with deciding what music is on my player. I want my whole collection on there, always synced to include my newest albums. I spend a good amount of time commuting, and even more at my desk at work; I have no idea what I'm going to want to listen to that day. Why should I have decide at all? Just have it all on there.
sweet, Im reading lots of Apple Bashers here. nice they came out to play =)
#50, okay lets examine the types of monopolies. There are the natural monopolies where their they have an increasing returns to scale, which government should allow, because any regulations on them will put them out of business. So yeah, natural monopolies are legal. Look at the other monopolies, the ones like Apple, where they do not have increasing returns to scale, they have decreasing returns to scale. So that would mean it is better for the economy to switch production to another company due to cost. That company will make profit from that. I did not accuse Apple of being a monopoly, because they're not. However, if you have a monopoly other than a natural monopoly, then it is clear that the only way to maintain the monopoly is by using their competitive advantage to block entrance of competitors. So we have the natural monopolies that have always been allowed by the government, and we have monopolies, which are just inherently illegal.
Oh yeah, to all those people who keeps saying everyone is stupid for arguing, blah blah you're stupid, he's stupid, everyone is arguing, maybe you should just shut up and not post then. I haven't bought an Apple product or a Creative product, but some jerkface who says everyone is stupid, and this is consumer site, people have freedom of choice.........so on...Well, this is a consumer site, and it should warn consumers of product shortcomings, which this site just does not do. So other readers fill in for engadget all the time. I hate engadget writers' comments, but I come here to read the new gadgets coming out, because I find that this site provides the latest news on gadgets. Their comments just do not help consumers to be smart consumers. To all those Apple fanboys who says they are so smart for using an Apple, think about why you're using an Apple in the first place, because you're either too stupid to use a PC because you keep saying it's not as user friendly, or you're trying to be different by going along with a product that provides you with less and charge you more. Why do you think PCs are the business hardware of choice? Why do you think Apple find it necessary to have BootCamp? Windows with PCs provides a better product, and Apple users pay more for inferior hardware and extra to make their Apple like a PC. Is that being a smart consumer? or even smart? The iPod philosophy is the same way, so don't tell me not to relate the two. Also, Creative provides more on their MP3 players and their players cost more to make because Apple is using their competitive advantage to stockpile flash memory and make it more expensive for companies like Creative, and because Creative hardware is more advance and cost more.
Apple doesn't support wma and ms drm becorse Microsoft wants to get paid per sold mp3 player
#7 said: "If anyone is to really be sued, its apple and its microsoft-like unethical business strategies with its flash memory domination thats capable of putting smaller companies out of business, but apple fanboys DONT CARE, they just want their pretty ipod to conform with society, even if creative's zv:m is a superior product."
Those "smaller companies" you speak of are doing fine. Apple isn't quite dominating yet. How can they be dominating if they they don't make flash memory drives? Not that they shouldn't or anything...
You're all wrong. Use Linux.
#67:
"Get your facts right before you close your mind to other possibilities."
once again, the idiot apple fanboys are too ignorant to even realise (or care) just how stupid they show themselves to be:
there are 62,158 threads in the 'iPod Discussions, Problems And Solutions' section: did you count up all the threads about defects, HD crashes, screen cracking, etc.?? And I'm not talking about all the 1,000's of other posts about problems with iPods that were posted elsewhere on the site, because the posters were too ignorant to read the headings & post appropriately. Go ahead, count them all up, if you want to challenge me on that: I'll wait - & check back with you next week, lol;
and please read my post, if you're going to vomit about me not getting my facts right: I said NOTHING about Cnet EDITOR'S choices. Why the hell would I care about them - everybody knows that they're paid off by Jobs. I said 'Most Popular MP3 Player list - you know, the list that matters most, the one from the actual consumers???
http://reviews.cnet.com/Music/2001-6450_7-0.html?tag=cnetfd.dir
again, who cares what james kim thinks?? His mp3 player ratings never actually reflected what the actual mp3 player OWNERS said about the ipods:
CNet Editors (Kim) rating for iPod nano: 8.3
Users rating for iPod nano: 6.9
go look it up, idiot: that's the largest rating disparity between the editor's ratings & the user's ratings you'll find on the ENTIRE site for MP3 players, so what the hell does that tell you?? Do you know? Do you?? Of course not.......you're a idiot ipod fanboy.
So that's 4 for 4, fanboy loser! Thanks, that was the most fun I've had all week!! Hahahahahahhh.......
Wow...what a terrific day for lawyers!
My Humble Opinion here:
I have tinkered with my Family and Friends iPods, and when it came time for me to buy my own mp3 player again ( I have owned many - mostly creatives ) I decided once again to go with Creative.. and I might end up regretting it....
Ok, so I really liked the Nano, cause it's so damn small.. I like going cycling and having something I can slip under my lycra easily is nice.. So Apple had that going for them..
My Pro's for buying the Zen Vision:M
*30 Gigs for a Great Price!
*Sucessful history in the market
*Not having to use iTunes on my PC!
*DivX AND XviD Support!!!!!
Seems to me the first thing the court will look at is the fact that the patent was awarded well after other people were using this technology. It might go something like this?.
Judge: So tell me again, you got this patent AFTER other people were already making things using this ?technology??
Creative: Ummmm, yes, but we applied for it before Apple came out with the iPod.
Judge: Well actually, I?m not thinking about the iPod, I was thing more about libraries. You know, those places that categorise books, videos, music by Author/Composer/Singer, Subject matter, recent releases etc?
Creative: Ummmm, yeah, but no-one ever called it Zen before!
Judge: Well, actually, the Buddhists came up with that one didn?t they?
Creative: Ummm, yeah, but we were the first to put a religious name on an already established music library system and make it portable.
Judge: So you want to claim patent infringement on a mash-up?
Creative: Ummm?.well?.
Judge: Dismissed?.with costs awarded against the plaintiff.
@86 ("You're all wrong. Use Linux.")
Bleargh. So instead of using simple interfaces and making things easier for people, computers should be sucked of all usefulness under the premise that users can install whatever they specifically need?
Let's see, I use a Mac and an iPod. I find no problem with it; it works for me. When I add a new album to iTunes that I have been listening to on CD in my car for a few weeks, I insert the CD, get the album art automatically, import the CD without any sort of copy protection bullshit, use an AppleScript I wrote to increment the playcount of that album, reflecting my in-car listening habits. The songs then appear automatically in my "Low Playcount" playlist, my "New" and "Very New" playlists and "2006" playlist, which are all instantly sync'ed to my iPod, along with my address book and calendars.
How does Linux simplify any of that process? Or Creative for that matter?
Keep in mind that I, personally, prefer to use a Macintosh, and so anything that requires loading Windows Media Player is out of the question.
I own an Ipod and I have used some of creative's mp3 players. I like creative's mp3 players much better. Ipods(I've owned 3) are definitely over priced, and are prone to frequent system crashes from time to time. While they can easily be fix by rebooting, you'd think for the price they charge, they could do much better.
"that's the largest rating disparity between the editor's ratings & the user's ratings you'll find on the ENTIRE site for MP3 players, so what the hell does that tell you??"
It tells me that user ratings can be made meaningless (particularly when a product or service inspires strong feelings) by the bitter, desperate, lonely, pathetic, and/or unknowledgeable because they game the system by posting numerous and pointless reviews... hence the disparity... despite the rationale and fair review provided by the editors.
How do you explain the 70% marketshare versus 11% marketshare? Oh, that's right-- in this case, everyone is a sheep, wants to be cool, don't know anything, just copying, right? But your stat is valuable? Uh huh... check out some of the user ratings at imdb of your favorite movies and see how highly you value user ratings.
Every Zen owner complaining about the "idiots" that buy ipods sound EXACTLY like every Mac owner that complains about windows-based PCs. "My product is so much better! I can't beleive those idiots would ever buy something that everybody else uses!"
Are there any Zen owner's that own Mac computers? You must be the most bitter people in the world.
FOOK YEA! EAT IT CREATIVE! WOO!
Some of the comments made in this thread are so pathetic its comical. I absolutly love that the ipod drives some Apple haters crazy. I dont care what any of you anti Apple people say, The ipod is without a doubt the single best portable music device available for many reasons. One of those reasons is the fact that there are now thousands and thousands of iPod accessories. Its pretty crazy just how many there are. There are even cars coming off the assebmly lines with iPod compatability already built in to the car. no other MP3 player can even begin to touch the variety of accessories that iPod users do. While you may not think that accessories is that important you would be dead wrong.
Then there is iTunes, again i dont care what anyone says. iTunes is hands down the best music organizing app available today and it just keeps getting better. Then you have have the iPod itself, its by far the best looking player on the market and while it may have small flaws, the overall package including available accessories and software literally kills everything else out there.
Here is a tip for you Apple haters, deal with it!! Keep spending yor money on what you want and quit bitching about Apples dominance in the market cause it isnt gonna change anytime soon. Apple computers are the next thing to catch on big time, Thats right people, the 2nd coming of the Mac is at hand so get used to the Apple logo cause your only going to be seeing it more and more in the years to come.
Later Haters!!
So when Creative announced the MP3 War, this is what it is all about ... I thought they meant actually fighting a product war in the consumer marketplace .. I was so wrong.
Congratulation to creative for following the footsteps of its own government. Try to use the law against opponent to make big profits.
I trust Apple will not lose on this.
Yes, ilounge forums have threads on ipod problems. so do the support forums over on Apple.com. This doesn't prove that the ipod is an inferior device, it just proves that there are centralized hubs of support for the product that people go for help when it won't work right.
does Creative offer the same level of support for its products?
Jeezus.
Never thought it would be this much fun, watching people rave about who has the right o rob them of their money.
Sadly it seems to have evolved into a discussion on media players instead of a discussion of the various lawsuits.
So why not just be content with whatever you're using to play your music on, and start debating the lawsuits.
- and yes I'd buy a mac anytime. Not because of tech specs. The design is just much more appealing to me ;)
Jeezus.
Never thought it would be this much fun, watching people rave about who has the right o rob them of their money.
Sadly it seems to have evolved into a discussion on media players instead of a discussion of the various lawsuits.
So why not just be content with whatever you're using to play your music on, and start debating the lawsuits.
- and yes I'd buy a mac anytime. Not because of tech specs. The design is just much more appealing to me ;)