Chinese workers reportedly toil in "iPod City"
By Evan Blass 
posted June 13th 2006 1:24PM
posted June 13th 2006 1:24PM
In much the same way that we'd rather not think about how the Big Macs we eat were produced, we also often ignore the manner in which our favorite gadgets are manufactured, because it's not as fun listening to tunes when you consider that the person who put together your DAP could be living like an indentured servant. And according to a recent report by the UK's Daily Mail entitled "iPod City," indentured servitude might not be a bad description of the working conditions inside the city-size Chinese factories that assemble the iPod nano and Shuffle, where the employees reportedly make about $50-a-month and live in crowded dormitories as thanks for working 15-hour days. It should be noted that even though the Mail story is supposedly based on first-hand reporting, their claim of 200,000 workers at one plant has been called into question, and at least one other factory owned by the same manufacturer has been certified by the International Labor Organization as free of human rights violations. While Apple certainly isn't the only device maker to outsource labor overseas, Wired points out that the company's tacit support of possibly-questionable working conditions is all the more ironic in the wake of its Think Different campaign, which featured the socially-conscious Gandhi and Caesar Chavez, among others. Unfortunately, our own lust for the latest and greatest products only helps fuel the vicious cycle that forces companies to drive down wages and seek the cheapest possible labor, so until we find a way to break our gadget addiction, we'll all be complicit in these practices to some degree.Read- MacWorld summary of Daily Mail story [Thanks, Marc P.]
Read- Wired analysis [Via Slashdot]
I have been to factories in China's Pearl River Delta. I have included a link to one of the places I visited- TTI Industries (they make powertools - Craftsman, Ryobi etc all in the same factory). I used to work on behalf of an International Bank and I was in charge of assesing our customers happiness with our letter of credit processing. I have also traveled across China visiting rural areas. The people that work in the factories are SO LUCKY. Factory workers are the upper middle class in China. They take a bus from their farming village to the city to work for most of the year, then return to help out their families. After working for a few years, most workers will set up shops in their home village. One worker I spoke with is planning to set up a nail salon in her village. She doesnt love to work (who does?) but she loves the fact that she is being payed extremely well compared to most everyone else. The Chinese have a long way to go in terms of health and safety of workers, but I agree with the above posters that yes this is a great start. Very few of you are capable of understanding the social and economical impact of these factories in China. This is a great thing.
well i can use this as another reason i dont like ipods
although my current reason is good enough....
I'm not sure what people were expecting to see here. When you buy your iPods, the packages clearly state that they are made in China. Have you ever heard of a factory in China that didn't sound like it was being run under sweatshop conditions???
Personally I want nukes on China. Now. Not because of the giant factories, or lack of labor laws, or human rights violations, or massive CO2 pollution, because we've all had incidents like that in the US during the Industrial Revolution.
I want nukes on China so it starts World War III. That's all I want, another world war and hopefully the end of humanity.
And if you couldn't tell that was sarcasm.
WWZJD?
yeah thats right, what would zombie jesus do?
now that everything is in perspective for everyone else...
shhhh
just wait until tomorrow and you will all be talking about your lattes and that new cant miss movie, and your social consciousness will be back on the shelf until the next article like this. Then you can all dust off your boring rhetoric and try to see who can puff out their chest the furthest and sound the smartest.
woot
The thinking seems to run:
"As long as I get my music, what happens in one of those backwards countries isn't any of my business. Hey, Apple is cool so...whatever."
What's abundantly clear is that most people commenting here have never visited China, never seen a Chinese factory, never done business with a Chinese factory, and have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
Please don't comment on something you know nothing about.
Gee, I didn't know that Apple was the only company in existence that had stuff made in China. They are bashing Apple because the iPod is so well known and it generates a lot of hits for their site. Face it, over 90% of what you buy is made there. Take a look at the items in your own home. Almost nothing is made in the US anymore because we are cheapskates. It is terrifying how much we rely on other countries these days.
Yes, the conditions there are awful. There are plenty of documentaries on television about it that you can watch that will show you this plain as day. No need to go there to see for yourself. You couldn't anyway. They only let the film crews into certain parts of carefully selected factories (their best ones) and watched over the workers to make sure they didn't say anything negative. The propaganda and censorship there is so intense the younger public doesn't even know about the tiananmen square incident. They can't even search the Internet about it thanks to censorship software provided by Google, Cisco, etc. just to throw some other names out there.
Excuse me...? I go to school near one of these iPod factories(I know because I sometimes stare out the clasroom window and see the boxes leave, and I have asked about the factory), and the neighborhood is full of ex-pats. The stores nearby charge accordingly. Now, can you say that $50-$100 is a good salary for someone living in an area with frices fit for US people?
I actually LIVE in China and watch over 6 factories daily. When I first came to China I thought....what a shitty life! they make next to nothing! BUT... When talking to even our lowest paid employee, about the the same $50 US, he is happy that he doesn't live ina village where you make absolutley nothing and live in a bamboo hut with no heating or airconditioning or doctors for 100s of miles. He feels so lucky as do all our employees to have a job that he would do even if he didn't get paid the $50. You must realize that the $50 is pure spending money to buy gifts, buy big beers for $0.20 USD. So do the math. I hate reportings like this that produce this type of trash. But it makes a good news story to spin something like this against a company making a product that is all the craze!
All in all, I must say that I have never seen factory workers mistreated, out of the 12-16 hours a day they work 6 days a week, they also recieve TWO-2 hour breaks, all their meals covered in a cafeteria(which I, yes I, eat at daily and it is delicious), most get paid hourly, heath care is covered, workers are happy to have such a secure job and not be living in the middle of nowhere starving and living off the land.
Critics of this do not understand economics at all.
It's disingenuous to state these wages at $50/mo without any context...as to avg prices of goods in this country (far lower than in the US) and comparative economic opportunities (again, far lower than in the US).
Let's say we all stopped buying iPods and put these factories out of business. Do you really think these workers would be better off? No, they would have to settle for far worse.
It's sheer demagoguery to criticize these conditions in this manner. Also, it's interesting to note the lack of credibility of the source of this article: note that the claim that one factory has 200,000 workers has been called into question. Think about how absurd the claim that one factory has 200,000 employees.
Ignorance. Cynicism. Lunacy.
I know this factory, it does indeed have 200k workers, but this story is a pure propaganda piece.
My company audits factories in China that supply multinational companies similar to this case. These sorts of sensationalist stories are just so ridiculously wrong it’s pathetic, and the people who buy it hook-line-and-sinker are almost as bad.
Please, just try thinking about it for 5 seconds: “Would Apple risk manufacturing their products in a factory that places their workers (or themselves) at risk?”
Come on people - how do you think they place these multi million dollar orders? By telephone? eBay? It’s a very long drawn out process involving many visits to the factory during which every part of the manufacturing process is scrutinized - a key element being something called ‘Social Accountability’ - ensuring the workers are well protected.
(and to 'kristopher bennewise' - try hiding 200000 people. anyway there's no need for a 'front op' - this fty is the real deal, ...so iPod owners can all sleep soundly at night)
I work in a factory in South China. Some facts:
1. There are really terrible factories around, but these are usually very small, local shops who rarely manufacture for export. The local councils and government are trying very hard to crack down on these unsafe conditions and the situation is improving monthly.
2. Manufacture of goods that go to the Western world usually takes place in excellent factories with skilled, trained workforce, good conditions and good pay. A person working in assembly on the shopfloor would typically get RMB800 to RMB2000 a month.
3. Vegetables for a week would cost around RMB10-20. I bought a pair of shoes for RMB9. Of course you can also get a pair of Nikes for RMB700, but that's if you want to.
4. Much of the workforce is migrant labour from northern provinces who send a good portion of their wage home, to look after siblings, family or just to save. They see their time in the factories as temporary and will go 'back home' after a few years.
5. The average day in a factory would go like this: 8.30am start work. 12:30pm lunch (1 hour). Work from 1:30pm to 5:30pm. 1 hour for dinner and then optional overtime.
6. If you aren't nice to your workforce, they will bugger off and find a better job.
7. The Chinese have an amazing work ethic. On a factory floor, they are like robots.
8. Factories that export to the West, are almost always certified to ISO9001 and often ISO14001. Without these certifications, they would NOT get the work.
9. Customers, such as Apple, would typically have an auditing system which cover criteria such as quality control, management, social responsibility, environment, on-time delivery, information, confidentiality etc etc. This is called 'Vendor Appraisal', and factories have to pass this in order to get onto the Approved Vendor List of customers.
In conclusion:
- 'Bad' factories exist. But it's only the 'Good' ones that make the good stuff. And these 'Good' factories are arguably, the best in the world. Don't believe this? Come over to China and take a look.
I love the common theme of this thread, which essentially amounts to defending sweatshop style work on the basis that it's a good job for the economic status of the country. These are the same people who are undoubtedly well-off American/British citizens who go to college or have a regular, 8-9 hour work day.
Yeah. Go try working 15 hrs. a day a country with little to no labor laws. I'm sure you'll be happy about the $50-100 you're making then.
To Cry Havoc
So you are an expert on the labor laws of China? …and you also seem to believe that Chinese workers don’t want to earn MORE money working in these factories like this one making iPods?
So I guess you’ve somehow forgotten that a major problem with China labor law is not that it doesn't defend workers rights (which btw it does) but that the workers themselves don't want to adhere to them. They want the longer hours, they want the overtime pay.
I agree with 1 thing you say – the Chinese work much harder than your average American, European, frankly anyone from a developed country (where are you from?), but it’s not because anyone is making them work harder. Millions of Chinese people have moved to the manufacturing areas to earn more money to send home to their families so that they can build better lives. You saying that’s wrong?
How can you make any sort of judgment on this unless you understand the realities of what is going in China?
CS:
I shouldn't have to explain why working 15 hours a day is wrong, but the fact of the matter is we live pretty comfortably in our society working 8-10 hours a day. That's probably too much, as we see extreme stress taking an impact in America now too, and obesity, which is a unique problem in all of human history. It's never happened before.
Even IF (and I'm skeptical) the workers do want 15 hours of work per day, it presents manifold problems for the society. Human being should not have to devote over 60% of their time to working. If they work because they want more money, perhaps it says something about the society that is not willing to pay them a fair wage.
Secondly, as a psychology major, I have read research on the damage of work and working stress. Look at Japan, look at America, and now look at the development of China. It's taking an impact, both physically and emotionally. If you think the average person can handle working so hard for so long, you only need look at the Industrial Revolution to show that we are not, in fact, machines. We cannot keep up this pace of manufacturing. It is devastating to the human psyche to stay jammed into a small area for so long.
And in retrospect, even if we CAN work 15 hours a day, should we? Should it be allowed? If everyone on the face of the Earth had 15 hour a day jobs, great, but at what point do we cease to become living breathing beings and just fade into another cog in the machine of produce. People are dying in Japan of -stress- now. Their bodies just can't handle it. Stress is quickly becoming the most damaging human condition on the planet. It could very well make AIDS look pale by comparison in the not-too-distant future.
Any way you spell it, it's bad. It's bad for humanity individually (read: Wal-mart), it's bad for society as a whole when our lives become dedicated to working. You're free to think otherwise, but I will continue to disagree with you.
you Know. I didn't expect so many thoughtful responses from fellow gadgetiers. I was recently learning about Similar issues with goods, mostly clothing, made in the Marianas Islands. Much of what you guys have Stated was reported as true there but the companies could still say U.S. on the tag. The hot alternative now That companies are folding wider pressure --- prostitution, So sad.
Cry Havoc,
I WORK IN CHINA! 12 hours a day 6 days a week and make the same as any other factory manager and live comfortably off it. And I never went to college.
Say someone in the US makes $30,000 a year.
Uncle Sam takes about $7,500 before you even see it.
$22,500 is what you are left with
-$2,400 insurance(maybe more)
-$4,200 rent
-$2,000 utilities
-$3,650 food($10 per day)
-$1,800 transportation
=$8,450 you got left
that's $704 bucks a month, right?
Well 700RMB($80USD) is pretty much the damn same.
Your $10 t-shirt costs less than 10RMB($1.20)
Your bottle of soda$1.50- here 2RMB(about $.25)
A toy car for your kid $10.00- here, yep about 10 RMB
I could go on forever.
The difference is westerners have become such massive comsumers of other things like Social Acceptance, Going to a movie, buying lots of useless crap really. Here they are happy to be alive and can put a roof over their familys head. They don't waste all their money on silly gadgets(sorry engadget!), fast cars, new clothes, etc. We could all learn a little from the way of life in China.
Oh, And I don't want to hear that my numbers a a little off, I was just approximating, give me a break, they're close enough!
...typo...."Well 700RMB($-88-USD)"
BTW, Cry Havoc,
I do agree that stress is a major issue, but here....they don't push the workers hard, they just hire ANOTHER ONE. Again, at the factory I work at, they eat breakfast at 7:30, start at 8am-12pm lunch/sleep/family time resume at 2pm-6pm have dinner, if over time is needed, it is on a volunteer basis and they are compensated. In my area in Guangdong, this is how most factories work it, unless they do two shifts.
I really do understand the concern some of you have, but stories like this are total BS. $80 a month here is like someone in the US making $25-$30K a year. REALLY.
Cry Havoc
Better, though improvement needed.
Now – with your psychology major in-tow – you seem to be talking about something you might understand.
I fully agree with you that 15 hours is too much for anyone to work in a day, and you’ll be happy to know that the China Govt also agrees with you – this is beyond the limits of labor laws.
The point I was making is that the factory jobs you insinuate are so terrible represent a valued and vital opportunity for millions of Chinese people who would even work beyond the limit of the law if they were allowed to.
The fact you think people here are defending ‘sweatshop style work’ in China is completely misguided. This factory making iPods and thousands like it are not the work-prisons you and the Daily Mail would love to imagine them to be.
…but I suppose with that negative image it makes it much easier for you to point fingers and use generalization like “….these are the same people who…”
With a college degree yourself you must know its important to stick to the facts and make judgements on issues you understand, right?
Yeah, I agree Chen. My 2:54PM didn't come out right :P I didn't have a whole lot of time to write that one...
The point was, it's a matter of perspective. There's a lot worse in the world that fewer people care about because it doesn't involve Apple.
When most Americans are done driving to and from work and doing all the house chores, does that not add up to about 15 hours? Work related stress is truely universal, and while it is an issue, that's not the point of this thread...come to think of it, I think this thread has lost all meaning at this point...
As the article states, they arent the first and only ones, buts its sad that the former hippie and king of the planet would be involved in it. of course, expect the cult members to chime in with denials, facts and figure, and justifications aplenty. Nothing can tarnish the pristine white fruit.
It's worth pointng out the reputation the Daily Mail has here in the UK... it's read mainly by middle aged women and is always scaremongering about something, usually illegal immigrants. So take anything you read there with a pinch of salt.
The Times, The Telegraph, The Independent and The Guardian are the quality papers (i.e. broadsheet) over here.
As someone who has been to china and visited factories and production lines - including the factory which Apple made the original iPods at (in Penang, Malaysia) and a couple in Guangdong province, I'd like to clear up some of the "sweatshop" preconceptions.
If you're making hi-tech electrical goods, you have to make them in a good environment. That means clean, air-conditioned factories staffed by people who can do precision work - ie, fresh and not overworked.
Pretty much all the electrical assembly is automated, with SMT lines (bare PCBs an components in one end, fully soldered finished boards out the other) doing it all. The manual part comes in where these boards need to get assembled into products and tested. It's the exact same procedure as I've seen in electronics factories in the UK - except that in China they do it on a much bigger scale. The (almost exclusively female) staff sit there chatting happily whilst assembling product, earning what is considered a very good wage in Chinese terms - many have travelled hundreds of miles for such a good job.
Living conditions are what we'd call basic in the west - dormitories, mostly - but as has been pointed out it's a deal which means that the employees are well catered for in terms of healthcare, accomodation and food. It also means that their pay is pretty much their own to spend themselves or send back home. Some factories have gyms, football fields, etc too - any place mistreating their staff will lose them smartish to another company.
If you want to see bad work conditions, peek into the shacks by the roadside where lower-tech goods for local sale are made. These are truly frightening; the customers of these factories care about nothing but low price, and it shows - no fume extractors, no AC, no concessions to safety. On the other hand, that's where many of the local entrepreneurs start, and you have to start somewhere...
CS:
Again, I think you seem to be missing my point. You cannot compare jobs to other jobs within the same system and then cite those people as "lucky". That marginalizes everyone. The factory is clean, fine. The people are making more money than they could anywhere else, fine. But comparing yourself to someone who's lower in status than you are is a common phenomenon, and businesses use it to pay you less than they should. "Look how lucky you are! You can afford all that you need!" Nevermind that you have to work half of your life every week to get it, and that as wealthy as China is becoming, could be making triple to quadruple the wages.
If Jed feels he is lucky because he has a roof over his 6x6 house and Bill doesn't, nothing will ever be done about it. Because Bill feels he is lucky too: He may not have a roof, but at least he has 4 walls! Jason only has 3!
Stop comparing yourselves to the poorer people and thanking yourselves for being lucky, Joe. Start comparing yourselves up the ladder and asking why you can't have something better. Or don't, it's your choice.
Also, I see in a newer engadget post that Apple is investigating the so-called, "iPod City." This leads me to believe they are either doing it for publicity, or that they are actually concerned about the workers, or both. Why would they be concerned though, unless the conditions reported are not as they expected them to be? Seems like Apple is worried about all those "lucky" workers in China.
This picture shows a spinning textile mill...
What still floors me about ALL OF THIS!!!
CHINA IS A COMMUNIST COUNTRY!!
Why is it that EVERYONE fails to see or mention this? Instead of Kruschev(sp)standing at a podium with Kennedy, this time it's the Maoists laying in bed with US corporations. The saddest part is that the great dictator(er, um.... Decider(bush)) claims that he will never agree to ending the embargo with Cuba due to their "human rights violations"
Well its not unreasonable if they get worker benefits like full dental free college full medical and like a month of personal days. Oh and for God's sake they live in the ipod factory so they should get free ipods.
or beer, that'd keep them happy.
Please listen to workers' voice if you have any chance to visit to China.
Sure, the U.S. government is screwed up, but have you taken a REALLY good look at the government in China?! When you buy Chinese made merchandise, you are personally supporting the PRC! You can't SERIOUSLY think that the government there doesn't benefit financially from you buying that damn ipod! If consumerism wasn't such a PLAGUE in the U.S., (& to a lesser extent, other countries as well) then perhaps people might be a little more concerned with what their money is funding & a lot less concerned with whether THEY have as many "toys" as their damn neighbor! Whoever buys Chinese-made goods can rest assured that they helped purchased the bullets used on the Tibetan monks who have been & who will be shot & killed by Chinese soldiers simply for trying to leave the country. Think of that next time you go to satisfy your addiction to the need to buy & have more.
This is a correction to my last message:
Where the sentence reads "PRC", it should read "PLA".