Apple promises to investigate "iPod City"
By Evan Blass 
posted June 14th 2006 10:48AM
posted June 14th 2006 10:48AM
Even though the veracity of that Daily Mail story about supposed substandard working conditions in several Chinese iPod factories is still up in the air, the Apple PR machine has already begun rolling out something of a damage control campaign, issuing a statement that reemphasizes the company's commitment to internationally-recognized manufacturing codes of conduct. Citing protocols outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and by the International Labor Organization, Apple stressed its own supplier code of conduct's commitment to safe workplaces, environmentally-friendly manufacturing processes, and most importantly to the issue at hand, ensuring that workers are treated with respect and dignity. Instead of flat out denying the Mail's claims, however, Apple seems to be adopting a more contrite approach, claiming that it is "currently investigating the allegations regarding working conditions" in the Hon Hai-owned plant. We're happy to see that Apple has taken notice of this story and is concerned with the folks who are vital in bringing their products to market, but the real test is whether we'll ever actually hear anything else about these factories once the company has completed the promised investigation. [Via iLounge]
now, how about Sony and all the others that use the same manufacturer and factories? ? oh thats not news .... its not apple bashing!!!
I don't see what all the fuss is about. The socialist libs just can't get enough. If the workers don't want to work in the ipod city they can go farm rice or work in some other factory. What the socialist libs fail to recognize is that these workers are there BY CHOICE!
Thats good to know
Bob.
You make a good point. The difference here is that apple is an american company and the anti-american socialist libs of MA and CA will bash american buisness on all fronts, doing whatever they can to push through with their anti-capitalistic agenda.
Apple: "Whoops! We got caught! Oh well; let's promise reform, make nice in front of a camera and everyone will forget about this in a week. What's our penitence budget for this month again, Bob?"
No rk, you give bob too much credit. He wasnt going as deep as you, he was just on about apple bashing.
Isn't anything made in China done so in the same type of working conditions complained of in this article? Are we just going to boycott and/or bitch about all products coming from countries with questionable labor ethics? If Ipod closed shop and went elsewhere or brought up the standards in these factories, all those people would be out of their job ($50 a month is better than $0) or Ipods would cost many times more than they do because one of the largest components in product cost is the labor invovled in building it. Benefits and high pay cost lots of $$$.
Here I agree with rk. If Apple can save money, lower the cost of the product, by, say, using for component material the bones of Chinese children dead from malnutrition, I'm all for it. After all, everyone eventually dies, and I want iPods cheap enough that I can buy two a year, not just one.
Of note, the original story appeared not in MA or CA, but UK -- the Daily Mail. They really are socialists.
This story came out about Apple because it's in the press and hugely populer/notorious. It gets as much press as google. This 'investigation' is not a push from socialists - in fact this action and reaction from apple is very indicative of a capitalist, democratic and free society. Apple's consumers (or, at least enough of them to matter) care about how their gear is produced (at least on some level), and Apple realizes that this allegation could affect their ability to sell products.
While there is also some genuine motivation within Apple to protect the conditions under which the factory-workers work, the capitalist machine within Apple is what caused such a fast and succinct response.
on a side note, the US may be on a serious economic decline (if not today, maybe someday) and this may force our work forces into less than ideal situations. Wouldn't you want other countries/societies to show some concern about the conditions under which their products/services are rendered even if they're overseas in the US?
When you say stuff like "anti-american socialist libs of MA and CA...with their anti-capitalistic agenda" it pretty much invalidates your point. You might want to tone that down a bit if you want to be taken seriously. I mean, I get what you're saying, but it's kind of like the guy that says "I caught a fush, it musta been about 1000 pounds. It was humormous!!"
Tell me how this is any different from what Wal-Mart or Target does their business? The problem here is the we as Americans EXPECT to pay a little to get a lot. Hence the reason why most, if not all, manufacturing jobs are overseas. If we would get off our collective asses and demand "Made in the USA" products and are willing to pay a few dollars more to keep jobs here then this problem wouldn't be such a big deal. So what can we do? Well here's a few things:
1. Stop buying "Made in China"; if you have a choice, which is not many, buy AMERICAN!.
2. Boycott Wal-Mart and Target. These are the two worst offenders in my opinion. They could give two -sh!ts about American jobs as long as their profit-margin is high enough.
3. Make your voice heard. Speak to your congressman and tell them that you will no longer sit idly by as their votes are being bought by big companies for tax breaks or preferrential treatment. And tell them while your at it, we're being invaded from the south.
4. The most important one: Get off your lazy asses and start taking those low-paying manufacturing jobs back! Quit expecting to be pampered and demanding union jobs. That's part of the reason we're in this pickle to begin with. If we don't start being competative again we're going to have a huge label on the back of our country that says: "Made in China" but reads "Hencho en China". Makes me sick to my stomach.
Michael
There are two sides of the coin here. The freaks on campuses that yell, scream, and yell about poor labor practices which are usually the same people that say "Rock the Vote" and organize the misguided youth under 25 that have no clue about life, and those that are OVER 25 that recognize the same argument, but have a better perspective than those who don't even know who our Vice President is.
My point here, is sure they make $50 a month, but look at the comparisons in societies, the job playing field, and the overall package that the Chinese bring to the table with respect to labor laws in general. The average Chinese worker will think of $0.50 a WEEK in the rice field or $50.00 a month in a factory? Guess where THAT person is going?! China is the BIGGEST violater of labor by and LARGE.
The culture of "cheaper is better" and the way that Walmart has basically shaped our culture in the last 15-25 years is REALLY to blame for this problem, because they have this religeous believe that causes the problem.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/
Case in point, check out the above and THEN come back to me and complain about Apple. Apple has been MORE than fair, and you can play advocate WAY more on Apple's side than you would on the Chinese, because they basically invite this. Its a two way street, and the "cheaper" believe on the US consumer's end is just as guilty as the Chinese government on this one.
Check out Google for turning in that Chinese dissodent who blew in the Chinese government.
Its the freegen botton line and the way Wall Street pushes these companies to make more on the margin profit side.
Kill your Tivo! Thank you Walmart, just like we say thank you Microsoft for making us this way. Don't blame Apple. Blame yourself, because you made them who they are. Businesses will continue to exploit China as long as we let them, and we can simply stop buying the product and become a more ethical consumer.
It's not Apple's fault 100% of the time. They are just doing what every OTHER big company is doing.
Don't even get me started on the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and the deregulation of the telcom industry. It basically wipped out 60 years of legislation.
drrrrr... two way street point here.
Posting like those by RK displays a lack of clarity and a reactionary posting to this situation, it is a reversion to political name calling and slander. It doesn't matter if its "socialist libs" or whatever else conservative mumbo jumbo you want to throw at it. The fact here, is that Apple, an American company that has built its image on conscientiousness and "think different" has some serious accusations laid out against it. You are right these factory workers have the "choice" to work (this is only true from our posh 1st world world view, in truth many Chinese workers have been forced from the farms to the cities by government policies, reduced agricultural profits, and the need to support their families in an ever toughening chinese market) However even if we grant that the workers have true freedom of choice in working at the factories, it doesn't free Apple from some level of hipocrisy, if these allegations are true. Now for other companies, it is more than likely that other companies are complacent in practices worse than Apple's and these companies should be lambasted as well. However it may not be so detrimental for a low end manufacturer to be accused of sweat shop practices, as a reasonable person should expect this practice, and such a company has most likeley not based its Ad campaign on thoughtfullness. i.e. it may be reasonable to expect that a low priced Asian manufacturer such as MSI to engage in shady practices, hwoever MSI probably doesn't give a damn, and certainly hasn't based its marketing on its thoughtfullness. (NOTE: MSI is only an example, there is no proof they engage in sweat shop practices)
uh-oh
bono's not gonna be happy.
watch the u2 ipod disappear quietly and quickly
All you have to say is "Daily Mail". That's the tabloid that supported the Nazis all the way up to the formal start of World War II, folks.
It's probably safe to assume that the more striking aspects of the story (the on-site dormatories, the wages of $50 per week/month depending on which part of the article you read, etc.) are actually made up.
Gowtham,
There is a truth to both of your arguments, but this will continue as long as China is willing to allow foreign investment w/o restriction on labor force treatment, AND as long as US companies are not held accountable from the society ethics and being pushed by Wall Street to increase the bottom line.
Case in point here, is the deregulation of the telecommunications industry in the past 10 years and the monopolistic approval of companies like Clear Channel by the FTC and NOT looking closer at the ethical ramifications of such mergers.
My point from the FTC, Wall Street, and individual companies can be basically split into two points .... 1. We shouldn't deal with China, as long as they continue to be the world's largest violater of human rights, and 2. the deregulation of industry, pressures by Wall Street on the margins of publicly trading companies and to the extent the unethical blind eye of companies who survive by dealing with China are BOTH to blame.
Michael, I certainly agree with the basic premise of your message: Buy American! (Or Buy Local! anywhere else in the world.) But we shouldn't reasonably have to pay more to do that. The money saved by low-cost Pacific Rim manufacturing is not going in your pocket or my pocket, it's going to profits -- profits on a scale that make business school professors worth their salt laugh. We often pay a great deal more than is reasonable, even for products cheaply manufactured in China and other low-wage havens. Reasonable profits, reasonable prices, local jobs -- it's not that far-fetched.
Things then further fall apart. Unions had, and still to some degree maintain, a large role, a tremendous role, in establishing a line in the US between hard work and worker abuse. If you are not working 80 hours a week, with no breaks, no days off, certainly no weekends, no health benefits, thank a union delegate. As a rule corporations don't police themselves very well on labor conditions. It's not a corporation's job to do that -- they make money; the concerns of humanity must be left up to humanity.
And last but not least, Latin American workers. I agree we need reasonable immigration policies and we need to uniformly enforce them. But comments like "invaded from the south" smack of fear. Like fear of Jews, fear of blacks, today it is fear of Mexicans. And that scares me a lot more than the undocumented Honduran guy working the landscaping job.
The Mail is a British paper (I live in Britain) and not a particularly reputable one at that. This was published in the Sunday edition which is notoriously sensational and full of unsubstanitated claims. This has nothing to do with political affiliations, they just know people will read anything with iPod in the headline. I'm sure Apple isn't doing anything worse than any other mass market manufacturers. We all know these workers are paid pittance and the working conditions are not up to Western standards but these people are there by choice and are earning an wage for their families. Apple wants to reassure people by investigating these claims but at the end of the day there is nothing to investigate. One funny thing the article says is that they only employ women because they are "trustworthier than men".
The Mail is a British paper (I live in Britain) and not a particularly reputable one at that. This was published in the Sunday edition which is notoriously sensational and full of unsubstanitated claims. This has nothing to do with political affiliations, they just know people will read anything with iPod in the headline. I'm sure Apple isn't doing anything worse than any other mass market manufacturers. We all know these workers are paid pittance and the working conditions are not up to Western standards but these people are there by choice and are earning an wage for their families. Apple wants to reassure people by investigating these claims but at the end of the day there is nothing to investigate. One funny thing the article says is that they only employ women because they are "trustworthier than men".
rk & san.
have you no shame? are you saying the lives of Chinese are not as valuable as yours? using the bones of dead chinese children to save a few bucks? you think its their choice to work in those factories?
maybe you should look at the bigger picture aka there is such thing as poverty and socio-economic problems making it hard to find jobs. sometimes you have to take what you can get.
on another note, i do agree that we should not just bash apple. instead we acknowledge labor issues is an epidemic, an issue that spans many factories of other big name brands.
I was going to jump in and say:
a) The Mail and all the UK papers love this type of sensationalism.
b) Everything in China is made this way! Looking at the pictures, Apple's OEM's factory looks like a good one. Of course it's going to sell more newspapers to pick on Apple, than any other brand of electronics sold in the UK high street stores!
c) It's a shame that Apple can't just say "but everyone else is the same or worse". The best (but unfortunately not real world) response is for Apple to publish pictures from other CE manufacturers' factories! I personally have seen some terrible ones in China!
But - I was beaten to the punch by all of this by a great bunch of intelligent Techcrunch readers - way to go guys :-)
ANDREW: It is a sweeping generalization to claim " ... all the UK papers love this type of sensationlism. Obviously you don't regularly UK papers very often, but instead subsribe to the wonderfully accurate US press .... IDIOT!
Does Bono know about this?
I posted in the first thread too, but here goes.
I don't shop at Wal-mart anymore. I have completely stopped buying their products. Now, as a college student, I am limited in what I -can- buy, but I'm trying to spend my money at local shops, even if it costs more for a loaf of bread.
RK: If you have a choice between starving and working 15 hours a day, that's not a choice.
San: You made some excellent points.
The crux of the matter is NOT that iPod workers are comparatively lucky. The problem is that "lucky" constitutes a 15 hour work day that will net a much, much lower salary than the average American.
I don't want America to take back the low-wage jobs. I want to see the government and citizens in other countries DEMAND that they get paid a fair amount of money without having to work such long hours for it.
I would like to see ALL workers on planet Earth make enough money to live comfortably. While the ideal is unrealistic at this point, I think it's an important one to keep alive. If that means paying $600+ for an iPod so workers can have more money, fine. I'd be willing to do that, if and when I can afford an iPod to begin with.
Just as others have said this isn't just Apple. But it's also not just Target or Walmart, try Ford, GM, Chrysler as well. They basically tell their suppliers "if you don't have a factory in China when are you going to have one". For the "big 3", Canada became too expensive, then Mexico has become too expensive so now it's China. There is something really wrong when it's cheaper to ship most of the vehicle's components from china and still be cheaper than producing over here or Mexico or Canada.
The bottom line... If the workers in China want to change their working conditions, they will. America used to have the same problem. When people of a nation want change, it will happen. Remember something called the USSR?
This is pathetic. It's a perfect example of sensationalism. It's the same kind of tripe that comes up every couple of months. Remember all the stories about how Kathy Lee's clothes were made in a sweatshop? There are plenty of examples.
Again, hate the system, not the players. Any Western company that tries to have a factory that can compete with one that's employing workers at those kind of rates will fail. Who could possibly afford to live on $50 a month in the U.S.?
If you want cheap clothes, shoes, electronics, etc., this is the result.
On the other hand, when a company moves a production line to a site like this, there are undoubtably two winners, and lots of losers. Among the winners are the company, in the form of lower costs, and hopefully the consumer, in the form of a somewhat lower price. The losers? All of the workers... but who cares if those people can't afford to buy the items that they used to make, right?
Hi James,
Thanks for calling me an Idiot - your persuasive comments have made me re-examine my life.
I actually lived in the UK for many years, regularly reading The Times, Guardian, Sunday Times, Daily Mail, Mail On Sunday etc - I don't think I was being too sweeping in my statements. The british press has a general attitude of negativity to anything successful. I use as my example any mention of EBay, which is always touted as somewhere where people get ripped off, or something goes wrong!
Anyway - thank you again for calling me an idiot. I exclude you from my earlier comments about how clever everyone is.
Substandard working conditions?? They probably live like kings compared to their comrades. It's a win-win for all parties.
I say let the cheap labor continue. I like low-price electronics.
I live in the UK now, and agree with Andrew- the newspapers, 'specially the Mail and tabloids, are all very anti-success. They are reactionary and spin lies...
But that's fine! I read them for entertainment, I use the interwebs for news and make sure everything I believe is repeated on sevral different sites. Not a sure way to get info but there's a bigger chance of it being reputable.
I also think that China is in the same place labour wise as the UK was 100 years ago- more hi tech but terrible working conditions. This will change.
Andrew,
Although my opinion differs from your own, I would like to apologize to you. I was presumptuous and rude.
Hi James,
No problem. I appreciate your apology. Thanks.
I actually think that we're saying much the same things. In the end, China is a horrible place to live for those poor people, but I suspect that Apple's OEM's factory is one of the better ones. It just makes me sad as a product guy when the press has a go at the easiest target for one day's worth of papers, rather than mount a sustained campaign over many years against every manufacturer big & small who makes things in the bad Chinese factories.
Steve will personally investigate... How to get his American workers to do a 15 hour day for less than what a iPod charger retails for.
F U Jobs
I for one will not be buying another apple product given this information. After all the item mentioned are not essential.
Why cant we have a fairtrade type of system for electronics and other goods to inform us that we are not buying goods from sweatshops.
What it would show is that the people making the goods are earning a reasonable wage and working for a reasonable amount of time in reasonable working conditions. Here in the UK a minimum wage of £5.05 and 48 hour week are the norm.
I watched a docu about walmart the other month and it showed more or less the same conditions. Do we really need another tv that much?
And I do buy fairtrade goods where available.
And to those who say the paper is using Apple because it is successful. OF COURSE THEY ARE. If they used any other brand we wouldnt be discussing it. Also apple should practice what they preach or else maybe in there next add they should show footage of how and where they are made with the tagline "30gb Ipod, Music to your ears (not ours)"
I've toured a wide range of factories in Hong Kong/China and there is a wide range of quality of life in every one. Some are up to what is considered the highest of standards while others that merely apply finishes to products are far less so. What we've got here is an high-end industrialized way of life and we compare it to a country with a work force that is unfortunately never going to get the advantages of higher education and opportunity and is immense and growing. Manual labor will always be one of China's major contributions and since business practice is the same there as it is here companys will always seek the cheapest bidder to work with and conditions will reflect that. Its all about margin and the benjamins.
But i will say, from numerous horrible personal experiences (damn iPod...actually it's more like "damn Apple"), that if Apple is taking the effort to improve in China, why can't they take the same effort to improve customer relations right here at home?! Does Jobs really go to bed happy every night knowing he's pissed off another couple hundred people?
Oh p.s. talking about fairtrade and everything is good, and I approve of that, but the reality is that if you wanna boycott corporate corruption and dishonesty, you might as well grow your own cotton live on a farm and have all your food, shelter, and clothing grown and made by yourself.
You simply can't compare working conditions across countries, as many people are doing. Of course gifteen hours per day, six days a week for $50 a month (or whatever) sounds like crap to us. But this is a problem that goes beyond Apple or any other specific company. Changing the labor laws in China is the only way to go. Making Apple the scapegoat has limited value in the long run.
For those of you taking a stand, you'll need to boycott Cisco, Dell, Nokia, Intel HP/Compaq, and Sony as well http://www.services.foxconn.com/ or you could apply for job in the US http://www.foxconn.com/jobs/location.asp or Scotland /Ireland and actually try and make a lasting change. Like a previous poster said the only way to truly boycott China/"poor working condition" made products would be to become Amish.
Is the work week in the UK really 48 hours? Or is that the *maximum* acceptable work week in the UK?
Im saying that we should make companies like apple and walmart insist on changing the way some of the companies they use operate.
First they should insist, given how much their orders are worth, on certain kinds of working conditions. Maybe not 8 hour days but certainly not 15 hour days. I dont want an apple product that much that a fellow human being is basically being couped like chickens to produce it.
I think its time to change our way of looking at everything we buy so that we are not indirectly responsible for slave labour.
Also I am not making apple the scapegoat but given the size of the company dont you think that they have the moral responsibility to ensure good working conditions and make sure they are enforced.
Maybe it shouldnt always be about getting the product to the shelves as cheap as possible and not caring how it got there.
Like the bananas I buy with the fairtrade sticker on which are slightly more expensive I will buy a TV/ipod/dvd player for slightly more just because they are shown to be not exploiting human beings from another country.
BiggusDiccus,
If I wanted to buy only American, there is nothing that I could buy, even if I wanted to.
Which of these are entirely made in the USA?
#1. CPUs: Intel and AMD. What computer would you be using? Same for computer motherboards, printers, network equipment, etc.
#2. What LCD, TV, plasma, monitor is made in the USA?
#3. USA made Cell phones?
The list goes on. Without #1, I would not be typing this entry.
I think the idea that nerds are supposed to be smart is largely exaggerated. First off, if anyone even read the first blog, it was posted in response to the "Think Different campaign, which featured the socially-conscious Gandhi and Caesar Chavez, among others." Sony never tried to be viewed as such, unlike Apple. No company tries to sell itself in such a way, only Apple. This comes back to the issue of idiots who buy Apple products, because they are too stupid to use a PC.(I realize we are talking about the iPod, but same can be said, think DAP with more features and cheaper, even when Apple gobbles up flash memory so other manufacturers' production cost goes up while Apple production cost goes down and at the same time, Apple will raise the price on you. You can mention the look of the iPod, but it isn't that good, and certainly not worth it when it's suppose to be in your pocket most of the time.) They are also too stupid to realize that when a product is made in China, how it was made is unlike the working conditions in the U.S. Yet, they will be charged a premium for a product that is made cheaply. Cheaper production does not mean cheaper price for consumers when we talk about Apple products, because Apple consumers are morons.
As if Apple didn't know. Steve Jobs probably handpicked all those workers as the Mac zealots claim he's so "intertwined" with every part of the iPod & Apple process.
Hey guys,
Funny story - So this guy from Newark goes to Huangdong, right?
He sees this farmer, in the sun, in the field, working hard so he can grow his own food! But he's smiling, you know. Hard work, but at one with nature. When the rice is planted, he's gonna go fishing!
The Newark says, "Hey! Don't you want to be able to afford to watch a all-style-no-substance-mind-raping Hollywood movie? Eat some artery-clogging McDonald's? Drive a pollution-increasing car, instead of healthy walking or riding on your buffalo? Come work at factory for $50 a month!"
Farmer: F*CKIN' AMERICAN ASSH*LE. Thanks for brainwashing the rest of my people.
Your picture shows a textile SPINNING mill, not an iPod assembly line worker.
At the other end, spin doctors are mission critical for poor quality papers as the Daily Mail. Simply stop buying Made in Daily Mail!
The same supplier in mentioned in the artical had filed 30 million dollar sued against two Chinese new reporters for reporting sweat shop condition in FOXCONN factories. Using the loop hole in Chinese law, FOXCONN had sued the reporters instead of the News agency for fearing to anger the News industry. FOXCONN had successfully frozed all the personal assets of two reports. FOXCONN is using it's enormus polictical and economical might to silence the voice of the sweat shop workers. This is outragious! Apple, as a responsible and progressive company should review their tie with FOXCONN. And, I hope the US news colleagues would help out the reports in China for voicing the truth.
I am still gathering more information. You may contact me if you are interested in this story.
Reference:
Sweatshop condition was reported on 6/15/06 and 6/22/06 on First Financial Daily (《第一财经日报》).
The blog from two reports: http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1252004463
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wow!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!!! how can they do this????????
Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how can anyone do this?????????