Spain cracks down on file sharing

It's a sad day for Spanish content pirates, as formerly lax laws allowing P2P file sharing for personal use have just been overturned in favor of strict new rules that make file swappers financially liable for any unauthorized downloading they partake in. Furthermore, the new regulations -- which, unsurprisingly, have been blessed with the MPAA's seal of approval -- also hold ISPs accountable for the P2P activity of their customers, which could be seen as an incentive for service providers to block what they consider suspicious traffic. Even regular law-abiding citizens will be affected by the recent crackdown, as a small tax will now be levied on all blank media to reimburse copyright holders for earnings lost to piracy. While we're totally in support of intellectual property owners getting paid for their content, we worry that these tough new rules will discourage and even prohibit the many legitimate uses of P2P networks that have nothing to do with stealing movies and music -- as usual, a few  bad apples (well, maybe more than a few) have caused everyone else to suffer.

[Via Slashdot]

[eric cumbee @ Jul 3rd 2006 12:41PM]

A tax on blank media would tick me off, why should i pay someone else to backup my school files to a cd?

[** Hello Moto ** @ Jul 3rd 2006 12:47PM]

I think the tax is unfair because you are paying for someone else F-ing the compnay. This makes it worse for those that are doing legal uses.

Also:
Basicly everyone file shares and it is NOT just a few bad apples. As well as that, there are VERY VERY few real uses for filesharing. Though there are some. People had chances to sue the technology correctly and they choice not to.

[mastir @ Jul 3rd 2006 12:48PM]

If they are going to start charging tax on blank media, I say just keep on downloading just to piss these government retards off. If millions of ppl keep downloading, what are they going to do? Arrest all of us? Yeah, I can see that happening, overcrowded jails with ppl whose only crime is downloading content from the internet....real smart.

[Steve @ Jul 3rd 2006 12:54PM]

Hello Moto --

Your two statements are contradictory. If everyone file shares, then everyone is equally affected by the tax. The idea of the tax being unfair only works if "good" citizens are paying for a few bad apples.

[d3 @ Jul 3rd 2006 12:54PM]

Here we go again. If there is a tax on blank media, wouldn't that mean that you are already PAYING for the stuff you get off P2P? If so, then they can't sue people and ISPs for lost revenue.

Very few uses for filesharing!? You should have your internet revoked.

[BONOBOHO @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:00PM]

@ ** Hello Moto **

give me a break dude. the content providers and their ilk (RIAA, MPAA, record labels and movie studios) are the ones at fault here. They collude to keep the content THEY want to provide available, to the detriment of everyone else. THEY choose who gets raido airtime, THEY choose which old catalogs to continue priting or making available through legal means, THEY choose to force DRM on us, THEY choose to lobby for inredible restrictive laws that stifle innovation and inhibit MY fair use rights. As far as I am concerned, they are the ENEMY. They consider me as such as well, because I want to do what I want with the content I have legally licensed from them for my own personal entertainment.

If you let them have their way, we will all be responsible for purchasing every copy of a song/movie you posess. That means a license for the CD, a license for the mp3 on your hard drive, a license for the mp3 on your mp3 player, a license for the ringtone you made, a license for the mp3 you keep on your laptop...etc etc.

I don't infringe on copyrights for the fun of it, I infringe on copyrights because they have decided to classify what I do as copyright infringement, in the face of precident.

[Arian Kooshesh @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:15PM]

effected .... affected

[bryan Ribas @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:24PM]

MP3 sorry

[GTgadget @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:33PM]

I still don't get the multitude of fees/"taxes" that the media lobbies get to levy on all kinds of products, particularly blank media. That already sucks, but the thing that's super aggravating is they're getting paid twice. They already charge EVERYONE under that blank assumption that everyone is pirating, and then they sue pirates for more money? It's punishing the innocent and double dipping at the same time among the many other f'ed up things they do.

I have pay more for devices, blank media, and maybe even bandwidth soon (if it's not already one of the myriad of line items in my bills). So I'm paying them all these fees for things I'm not doing under the presumption that I'm guilty AND I still often pay these a-holes insane prices for CDs (I try to buy most used, but don't even get me started on import CDs) and concerts (I'm a calm person, but saying "Ticketmaster" is the easiest way to prompt overwhelming rage).

I just stopped watching movies. I've honestly never downloaded them, I just stopped watching them. It was mainly due to the skyrocketing cost of going out to a movie, general crappy viewing conditions, and the increasingly long movie times just aren't worth it. If I really want to watch a movie, I'll eventually buy it (good sales, used, through friends with employee discounts, or once they hit the ultra cheap prices). Plus, I'll have almost as good of a viewing experience on my HD setup, if not better.

However, I'm still a big music fan (though definitely to much less of a degree than a few years ago) and the RIAA plus Ticketmaster are constantly kicking me in the nuts almost trying to make me stop giving them ANY money.

In my case, those industries are losing marketshare because they just keep pissing me off. Eventually, I and other people just find other places to spend their money. I guess I'm a bit more culturally obtuse now (I can't stand most crap on mainstream radio anyway...the heavily marketed carbon copy #13 of some group that was questionable to begin with), but I hate paying these people. Everytime I buy a batch of CDs or buy a ticket to a concert, I almost want to punch a baby when I think about the fact that I'm still supporting their anti-consumer crap.

The ironic thing is that I used to work in the movie industry and now the idea of watching a movie is about as enticing as a dental visit.

[oshean @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:46PM]

I am a art/music/movie copyright holder, where do I sign up for my share of the tax money? What? Only for the major companies?

[HigherBe1ng @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:48PM]

"I don't infringe on copyrights for the fun of it, I infringe on copyrights because they have decided to classify what I do as copyright infringement, in the face of precident"

very well said BONOBOHO...

[HigherBe1ng @ Jul 3rd 2006 1:56PM]

If musicians would finally bring out quality records, they would probably not have to worry about all this in the first place... I mean honestly, what was the last CD u bought and liked EVERY track... I honestly sometimes believe Artists put tracks on some CDs as place holders, to make the CD play longer... But 99.9% of the time there is only 2 maybe 3 songs on a CD that I like... and I'm definately not gonna pay $13 for 2-3 tracks... If it comes down to it, I will go back to the 1992 days and hook up a cassette recorder to my radio and record the songs I like... f--k the RIAA MPAA and all those other organizations that try to profit off of material that isnt theirs to begin with. Everything has become to commercial...

[aparaty cyfrowe @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:01PM]

Crazy people who make this law.

[** Hello Moto ** @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:01PM]

Steve-

Good point. Can't say anything agaist that.

BONOBOHO-

While DRM sucks its going to become much much much more common. They feel the need to do so because of people stealing music. If you look at CDs there have been very few issues with DRM, people didn't try to trade the song 1,000,000 times ot people they didn't know, they would share with a few friends, who could often also buy it. After burnable content there have been a few issues like sony's root-kit which really wasn't an issue, it was hysteria and is similar to the news going on and on about how myspace.com is evil and that powerful laser points are going to be the end of us all because a few of us are importing them from china (me to in a few days).

Basicly the point is that DRM is here because people couldn't follow the rules, and now its just going to get worse. You may think that hackers can beat the companies forever, but hardware and software is getting more advanced, and with $1000 players the companies don't mind making YOU pay for the DRM they make, so its going to get much worse until someone like mircosoft has a system to perfectly understand what is legal and what isn't, and that at best won't show up for another 8 years, knowning microsoft, lets say 15+.

[m @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:05PM]

Directed more at Evan but I want to point out that it is naive to think that the tax on blank media is because of p2p users. If there were no p2p networks, RIAA/MPAA/etc would still be lobbying for this tax but their reasoning would be to counter those "let's copy our music cds and movies for our friends and coworkers" people.

[BONOBOHO @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:26PM]

** Hello Moto ** --

Stop being a big-business apologist, please. We can live without DRM, and the record labels would be able to survive without DRM. They just dont want to, because they are afraid. The best way to deal with this situation is to not restrict the rights of honest users, and attempt to violate legal precedent or remove it with legislation.

As long as they continue to classify me using the media i have LEGALLY PURCHASED/LICENSED in the way I have deemed fit inside the confines of my own personal space, I will continue to be a criminal, and I wont feel the least bit guilty for it.

DRM is here because the media congolomerates are a bunch of greedy, bloodsucking leeches. I buy more music BECAUSE i can sample it before dropping 12$ on a CD and finding out the whole thing is crap. And thats the rub, they dont want me finding out the whole CD is crap without dropping 12$ on it.

The only way its going to get worse is when smart people stop cracking the abysmal DRM features that they have installed, or if the companies realize the errors of their ways, and stop trying to force this garbage down our throats.

[Slash @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:32PM]

Okay id just like to say one thing.

I'm 16 and i hardly have $5 with me for a whole week.
and i download movies and music like crazy.
why?
because i couldnt buy it anyway!
so i feel i'm not hurting anybody.
yes its still stealing
but they arent losing money because of ME, MYSELF, and I

[o0adam0o @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:37PM]

* Hello Moto ** hardware and software is getting more advanced?

Well its called Reverse engineering.... once you discover its structure, function and operation....you can figure it out. Unless theres a way to keep people from discovering that, someone will always crack it.

[GTgadget @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:38PM]

I truly, truly wonder what the effects of the RIAA/MPAA diverting the costs of all of this lobbying into just *gasp* making prices of their products cheaper. They could probably even price it into "impulse buy" territory. I remember seeing tapes of albums selling at prices cheaper than CDs not too long ago...WTF? If that doesn't demonstrate a crazy markup on CDs, I don't know what does. I actually donate to my local public radio station every month...I'm willing to pay to hear good music, but that's insane.

Then they're even lobbying/itching to charge more for digitally-distributed music. As a consumer, you don't get a physical copy (and if you can back it up, you've just indirectly paid them some more), you don't get any bonus material (cover art, bonus DVDs, etc), and you partially pay for the bandwidth...yet they want to make it even more expensive and nearly the same price as purchasing a CD (or more) which is already unbelievably expensive in most cases.

DVD prices, I'm "more" okay with, but you know there's plenty of profit in there too...the industry almost lynched Warner Brothers (I think it was them) when they contemplated cutting their DVD prices across the board. Consider all of the production costs associated with a movie, yet the music industry wants to charge almost the same price for a freaking CD. C'mon. Then with the insane prices, they also want to say you can't back them up either.

I remember there was a CD I really wanted to import from Europe (France to be specific), but the album was DRM'ed. I'm not paying almost $30 for CDs without being able to back them up. I actually emailed the artist and told them I was a big fan of their music and the album was awesome, but I'm just not willing to pay that much to import a CD that I can't even make a backup copy of (if you think I'm actally going to put the original in a CD player, you're insane). Of course, I now can't recall the artist or the album...THAT is how you lose customers! They drove away a customer that was actually willing to pay ~$27US for a plastic disc with a few songs only because I liked the artist that much and wanted to support them.

My email probably didn't make a bit of difference, but if more people started doing it, maybe they'd start being resonable. Haha...sorry, lost myself for a second there. Who am I kidding...they seem to be determined to be major a-holes...I honestly almost think that's where they get their personal joy. Inane DRM systems, questionably legal/ethical fees slapped on everything remotely associated with their product, and super inflated costs seem to be here to stay. If/When it gets to the point of being all digital distribution with no ability to do anything with the songs/music with no physical backup, I think I'm just going to have to quit completely. Turn off the radio, game over.

Sorry for two long ass rants, but I really like (used to love) music and the music industry is just really, REALLY pissing me off. I used to be a musical encyclopedia who friends would come to to find out which artists made song X or worked with Y and gave music recommendations. Now, I barely bother to remember the difference between Dave Bruebeck and Dave Matthews...for the most part, I just don't care anymore. Mission Accomplished.

[Kichael @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:55PM]

The way I see it, they never had a sale from me in the first place. So me downloading the movie/song does not make them lose profit because there was no profit to be had from me.

[d3 @ Jul 3rd 2006 2:59PM]

GTgadget, I agree with you for the most part but there was this one thing I didn't quite get:

"(if you think I'm actally going to put the original in a CD player, you're insane)."

Why?

[** Hello Moto ** @ Jul 3rd 2006 3:02PM]

BONOBOHO-
I dunno why I bother with you, because you won’t listen no matter how logical something someone else says, something’s you should accept that people you don’t want to agree with are right on at least certin points. Well sorry, but people are who they are, and I support ideas when they are needed. DRM is a good thing, it’s just badly implemented, often in unfair ways that boarder on being illegal, that I don’t support. Honest users always suffer. If you look at video games DRM is starting to make some differences, but it makes life hell for some people. You buy counterstrike in a store and you are basically 100% sure of getting a already cracked key so you have to spend hours on the phone trying to get a new key without paying even though you never got use of your first one.

You don’t really own media you buy. It’s closer to intellectual property than something real, like a block of wood, or a painting. You should real all the user agreements and such, you will find you really don’t have much control over what you ‘own’ even other media does the same thing.

You can go to a store and listen to the entire CD first without having a way to copy/use it any time you like. Or you could listen at a friend’s house… (I take that back for you, you don’t seem all that socially able)

I still say DRM is only going to get stronger. Look at Microsoft’s new genuine program, even with lawsuits calling it spyware and people trying to crack it all over, many machines cannot get it off/disabled. And the seemingly true rumors (*gasp*) are saying it will be required on all XP and will come pre-integrated with all Vista. I think either MS will open this up and work with adobe to start blocking rampant piracy or each companies DRM is going to get much stronger.


Slash-
So your a criminal and happy. Good for you. You might want to get into the whole swedish insurance because posting that you love to steal tons of music isn't exactly going to help if you if you end up being one of the 0.0001% of people fined.

GTgadget-
Good points all around, however no matter how much you email/mail the artist, it won't any difference. Artist are basicly sold their lump sum in advance and a fwe lost royalties arn't enough to do much, even if htey wanted a change anohte artist would fill their place if they did a strike like deal. The entire set of top artist would basicly have to refuse at the same time to change the industry.

[Bryan Ribas @ Jul 3rd 2006 3:17PM]

"I don't infringe on copyrights for the fun of it, I infringe on copyrights because they have decided to classify what I do as copyright infringement, in the face of precident"

I love It!!!!!!

As to slash I agree with you. If you don't have the money to buy music and you download it the artists are not losing anything. They are gaining a fan!!! That SHOULD be more important.

[Simon @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:54PM]

In my book the bad apples are the greedy "copyright holders", those who stole from the actual artists in the first place. There is no stealing from thieves, so movie and music sharing should be totaly legal. But, then again, those thieves have money and influence, so they can even make one goverment threaten another goverment in a way that should be considered political terrorism. But again, as the goverment commiting that acts of terror is the one with the strongest military it might do as it pleases.

It's all fucked up, but we are to far into the shit to get out clean. Enjoy commerce, enjoy piracy. It's all part of the game.

[Arian Kooshesh @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:47PM]

Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-rationalism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

The original facist (fascismo) movement ruled Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. In time, the term fascism came to cover a class of authoritarian political ideologies, parties, and political systems, most notably Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler but also Hungary's Arrow Cross Party, Romania's Iron Guard, Spain's Falange and the French political movements led by Marcel Déat and Jacques Doriot and others.

Anyone but the Government taxing us is fascism. Any use but FOR the people is fascism.

[bliss @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:49PM]

wow... some great discussion... thanks all for sharing your views. I wonder when there's going to be some hardcore crack down in the Asia region...

[drt @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:55PM]

when all you kids that pirate stuff grow up, some of you will have jobs in the film/game/tv/music/software industries.

then will you finally understand what you're doing is wrong. when your job is affected.

just sayin.

[Scott @ Jul 4th 2006 12:00AM]

Get off my Lawn!

[Davik @ Jul 4th 2006 5:39AM]

Kids? I do have a job, I'm 25 years old! The average age of people who violate copyright for personal use.

Where would I get my fansubs if I lived in Spain?
FYI I live in Portugal.

It's rumoured we will follow Spain's example, and still pay a levy on blank media.

I certainly won't buy what I download, it's not available and I wouldn't have the money.
Instead I'll just cancel my very expensive ISP service. The last laugh indeed.

[dextro @ Jul 4th 2006 5:43AM]

Damn those spanish, can't they just leave people alone and free to download those linux distros via bittorrent?

[wzzx @ Jul 4th 2006 8:18AM]

Well I have to say this tax apply to all kind of blank media except hard drives so that implies that this tax is applicable to: CD's, DVD's, pendrives, all kind of memory cards, mp3 players... They also wanted to apply this tax on inet connections ADSL, Cable...

What does all this mean? Well imagine I went on vacation and took 450 photos and want to save it on a CD to give to my friends. First of all I'm paying to SGAE for saving photos in my memory card and second I'm paying to SGAE once again because saving photos in a CD. So I paid twice a canon against piracy when I'm not doing it. Now a new philosophy is arising out in Spain: "If I'm paying a tax because piracy I can do piracy".

This canon was and is promoted by SGAE(Sociedad General de Autores Españoles which comes to be Spanish General Autor Society). As a curiosity if you find "ladrones"(which means thiefs) in Google you'll see that the first link provided is the SGAE main page. There's also some videos in YouTube talking about SGAE humouristic ones youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bsgJBP9X4 or serious ones youtube.com/watch?v=5t2kuQuh5Ts.

There are several platforms against that canon like http://www.nosoypirata.com/ or http://www.todoscontraelcanon.es/(supported by Spanish Internet Users Association) or http://www.geocities.com/sgaeno/ or ...

"Welcome to Spain (:" -_-'

[oneijack @ Jul 4th 2006 9:56AM]

Damn those Spanish.... There just snoody upperclass Mexicans. People will not stop file sharing. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Any government that thinks it can control this is arrogant.

[GTgadget @ Jul 4th 2006 2:42PM]

GTgadget, I agree with you for the most part but there was this one thing I didn't quite get:

"(if you think I'm actally going to put the original in a CD player, you're insane)."

Why?

-------------

Simple...because listening to CDs, even when using a good CD player, will slowly create fine scratches. Then if you want to listen to the CD in your car, you're almost guaranteed plenty of scratches over a relatively short time...partucularly since I tend to have cars with stiff-ish suspenions. So whenever I buy rare, out-of-print or imported CDs, the first thing I do is make a copy then store away the original. I use the duplicate for everything from ripping to MP3s or making copies for in-car use (I have yet to justify the cost of a DAP and sound setup for my car...I'm very particular about my cars as well and it's hard to do a clean aftermarket setup for my vehicle).

This is especially important since I own a few CDs that had limited runs and are out-of-print (and plenty more CDs I want that fall into that category or that I expect will go out of print). Once that happens, you simply can't buy the CDs anymore, even if you wanted to. Then you can no longer *legally* listen to the songs...especially with the direction in which copyright law seems to keep evolving. Happen to like a song that doesn't generate enough profit margin to produce anymore? Too bad...cling to the memories. DRM and copyright law especially screw you in these cases.

[hitkaiser @ Jul 4th 2006 4:04PM]

Indeed what wzzx is very true about the SGAE.

But.. this "tax" isn't a real tax since the money doesnt go to the government (as all taxes should), it goes to the SGAE organisation who claim they represent all the media industry, but Im quite certain Britney Spears has never been in contact with them nor has been recieving her share from the taxes.

Hence the reason they are called "ladrones" (Robbers)

[MrFloppy @ Jul 4th 2006 8:17PM]

I don't care about P2P, people use it to illegal activities. But I hate that tax (canon), it's pretty unfair. What if I buy a DVD in order to burn MY OWN photos? Why do I have to pay?

[darkbhudda @ Jul 5th 2006 2:46AM]

I buy a CD that doesn't work in my CD player because of stupid watermarking. I take it back and am told it is my fault it doesn't work. Even though they admitted plenty of people have already complained at the store, they told me I need to buy a new CD player.

I buy a DVD and have to sit through copyright warnings in 30 plus different languages.

I play a DVD and it comes out black and white because the PS2 converts NTSC signal to black and white. The DVD company was too lazy to convert NTSC to PAL, even though they region locked it to Australia and were selling it full price on the Australian market.

I buy PDFs protected by Adobe Acrobat's own DRM technology. Adobe upgrades their reader software. It takes them 2 months to upgrade the DRM component. If I upgraded to the latest version I would have been unable to use my legitimately purchased goods.

Now, if I pirated the movie, music or document I would have no such problems. Stop punishing people trying to do the right thing. Stop using DRM. It is not future proof, it is very prone to failure.