Apple's Mac Pro: redesigned Power Mac with Core 2 Duo dropping August 7?

The Apple rumor-mill is all but certain that new Power Mac G5 replacements will be unveiled during Steve Jobs' WWDC keynote on August 7th. Now, Think Secret has "confirmed" that unlike the other Mactel's released to date, Apple's new top-of-the-line desktops, likely dubbed the Mac Pro, will sport a "substantially different" enclosure from their ancestry. The new boxes are also said to sport Intel's Core 2 Duo (Conroe) chips in configurations similar to the most recent Power Mac G5s; a single, dual-core proc in the low-to-mid range systems with top-end systems going 2 x dual-core for some hot, quad-core action. No word on clock speeds, unfortunately. TS' sources also claim that the MacBook Pro will also see a redesign when the mobile version of those Core 2 Duo (Merom) chips are released around August. And, uh, no we don't have any pics of the new designs -- a statement sure to incite graphic designers everywhere into a development frenzy of purported spy-shots. Of course, if you've got the real deal, well, you know where to find us.

[Bob @ Jul 4th 2006 9:00AM]

Conroe doesn't support dual-processor configurations, so if the Mac Pro does use the Core 2 Duo, then it will only offer single-processor, dual-core configurations.

A quad-core Mac Pro is only possible if Apple uses the Woodcrest Xeon, as they should, since the PowerMac series was always Apple's workstation offering.

[Phil @ Jul 4th 2006 9:05AM]

Conroe is not an SMP enabled CPU. It won't work in a dual socket configuration like teh current G5.

The new MacPro will most likely employ Woodcrest Xeons (Clockspeed tops out at 3.0GHz with 4MB cache).

[aazp @ Jul 4th 2006 9:09AM]

they will probably use conroe for the lower model and woodcrest for the rest, is supposed to be a workstation after all.

Un less they make a smaller tower to be in between the iMac and the Mac Pro, it's been suggested, but I find it unlikely

[bob @ Jul 4th 2006 9:15AM]

yes but remember, think secret made this up lol so take it with a pinch of salt, i do love the current g5 enclosure though, so profesional. cant help but think the speed will be slightly reduced here until the Woodcrest is out though. most people really dont appreciate how fast the quad G5 actually is.

[i @ Jul 4th 2006 10:05AM]

ijustwannasay the 15inch 1920*1200 macbook which supports the 30" screen is #1 on my 2buy list.

[joey @ Sep 25th 2006 7:06PM]

Who cares about your xmas wish list, what the hell does it have to do with the price of tea in china? It doesn't. Just like it has nothing to do with quadcore desktops. dumbass

[Tony Rayo @ Jul 4th 2006 10:10AM]

Bob, I think the main reason for that is for many people, a Quad G5 is something their company is paying for or just a distant dream =p. Also if I had the choice I wouldn't want to buy a G5 now (unless some disgruntal employee wants to make a quick 500$)... I have never been a Mac person (although it's so much easier to be a Mac person now than it was 8 years ago when I really got into computing, so that will change soon... I even have a spare LCD/TV from Dell going to waste, need to fuel it with OSX =p) so I don't have any attachment to the PowerPC processing, and with Apple changing everything over to Intel chips, I wouldn't want to even touch (aka buy) a PowerPC Apple computer now... although it looks like people that can afford it and feel the same way as I do won't have to wait long.

I don't know how many years Apple/3rd party people are going to keep up with the "Universal" app. scheme, but if it lasts at least 5 years that should be long enough for most people to care (and for the newest apps to not work well even if they were universal).

[McPhearsom @ Jul 4th 2006 10:20AM]

This can't be true, is conroe even 64bit? The current G5s are 2x 64bit Dual Core 2.5Ghz G5s with up to 16GB RAM, a single Core 2 Duo can't be better than that?

http://www.apple.com/uk/powermac/specs.html

[Mat @ Jul 4th 2006 10:32AM]

The PowerMac enclosure is nice and all, but it sure is big, and I can't help but think that it was designed with functionality in mind more than dashing good looks. Hence why it has holes all over it to aid cooling. I think Apple will have to redesign it anyway, as I seem to remember the G5 chip enclosure inside it being the largest component/s by far. I think a much sleeker, shexier design is in need! I just hope it uses more advanced technology this time ie faster hard drives and faster ram. Surely it will be released with a new cinema display with iSight and IR sensor built in?

[Scott @ Jul 4th 2006 10:38AM]

Conroe and it's Ilk are monsterous chips. The Benchmarks show it Outperforming FX Series Chips and having *Suprise* Overclocking possiblities.

[Darren @ Jul 4th 2006 11:04AM]

Can't wait for these to drop! Hope the August date is showtime for the new Macs.

A new enclosure would be wonderful, hopefully we can stuff more than 2 HDs in it, though...

[BBX Boy @ Jul 4th 2006 11:30AM]

Just as long as you're prepared to wait 2-4 months after ordering one for it to show up at your door. Every time Apple has introduced a major bump/innovation to the PowerMac line, they've overwhelmed by the demand and onslought of pre-orders. The last time I ordered a BTO top-of-the-line G5 at launch, I waited 18 weeks and saw my ship date slip 6 times. Let's hope they've learned from past mistakes.

[BBX Boy @ Jul 4th 2006 11:38AM]

Can't believe I misspelled onslaught - Engadget's comment system is in need of some edit capabilities.

Personally I think that Apple's design of the current G5 is damned near perfect in its current form - can't wait to see how they improve (or screw up) with a redesign. Now all we need is a decent pro keyboard that takes its design cues from the Pro line as opposed to the white gloss consumer stuff (which I like in that context, but it does an injustice to all that sexy aluminum in the pro space).

[bigmiz @ Jul 4th 2006 11:49AM]

did apple even consider amd as a chip option? as far as i know, amd beats intel on price and performance and they offer 64 bit chips. the only thing i could see intel offering over amd is its brand power

[Tyler @ Jul 4th 2006 12:02PM]

Mmmmmm.... Mac Pro. I'm a PC guy all day, that is until these hit the street. I can't wait to get one of these and have been running my sad PC into the ground in the process. I'm really excited to seen OSX and XP dual booted... run OSX for productivity, XP for games (because there are still not enough full compatible MAC games out there and the ones that are are more expensive).

I hope they confirgure this to be compatible with all the juicey GPU options out their (ahem... SLI ... ehem).

[John from Buffalo @ Jul 4th 2006 1:13PM]

What I personally dig about the new Intel chips is how the Mac community so coviently snubbed the PC community for SO long about it's naming conventions... that NOW WE (the Mac people) are only getting excited about CHIP names more than the PC people... whole thing got tipped on its ear!

[fpn @ Jul 4th 2006 1:15PM]

Most of the current Powermacs use a single, dual-core configuration. Going to Conroe wouldn't affect them, and Intel's Kentsfield (quad-core Conroe) CPU will be released in January. Gee, there wouldn't be any major Apple events around then, would there?

Apple will go Conroe for the Powermac replacement. So there won't be a quad for a few months- boo hoo.

[Jimbob @ Jul 4th 2006 2:42PM]

until Adobe get Creative Suite out for Intel the intel pro macs are going to be playing second fiddle

[M_Mickey @ Jul 4th 2006 4:12PM]

This could be the ultimate machine for the non-gamer if priced rigth. Im waiting for this release.

The E6600 with 4mb cache should be at least as fast as the current low end power macs, and a lot cheaper, smaller and cooler.

But what chipset will they run on?

[Charles @ Jul 4th 2006 6:20PM]

It's product/industrial designers not graphic designers that will be creating the ‘purported spy-shots’

[Silver @ Jul 4th 2006 6:42PM]

Please Apple, go guns-out on the graphics cards for once. For a premium machine, give us premium video performance.

[David Schamis @ Jul 4th 2006 7:08PM]

"until Adobe get Creative Suite out for Intel the intel pro macs are going to be playing second fiddle"

I really hope that Apple is coordinating the release of this with Adobe's release of a Universal Binary version of Photoshop (presumably CS3), but I am a bit wary!

[MacGeek @ Jul 5th 2006 12:16AM]

I really don't like the Mac Pro name, I think they should stick with PowerMac even if they no longer have powerPC processors

[David @ Jul 5th 2006 12:50AM]

engadget failed to mention that thinksecret is also predicting new enclosures for the MacBook Pro when the Merom revision comes out. Personally, I'm quite skeptical, but anything's possible....

[Vermilion @ Jul 5th 2006 2:18AM]

MacGeek:
> I really don't like the Mac Pro name, I think they should stick with
> Power Mac even if they no longer have powerPC processors.

Same here. There were PowerBooks long before there was PowerPC, so there's no reason why we can't have a Woodcrest Power Mac. It's got "Mac" in the name, so it should be safe.

MacBook Pro, and now Mac Pro? Excuse me while I wretch on my PowerBook.

[Jimbob @ Jul 5th 2006 7:50AM]

new enclosures for the MacBook Pros would be cool - the current enclosures are cool, but carbon fibre looks nice :) and whatever else Apple has up their sleeves

[blah @ Jul 5th 2006 8:25AM]

first of all, the powermac quad core has four separate processors on two chips, NOT TWO DUAL CORE PROCESSORS.powerpc has no dual core processor offerings.second of all, the core 2 duo(conroe) does not support multiple processors in one computer, so a quad core mac pro would have to use core 2 extreme(woodcrest), the xeon replacement.

[blah @ Jul 5th 2006 8:30AM]

o yeah, and if iBook is Macbook, PowerBook is MacBook Pro and PowerMac is Mac Pro, does that make iMac simply Mac?

[blah @ Jul 5th 2006 8:42AM]

"Surely it will be released with a new cinema display with iSight and IR sensor built in?"

well, the powermac g3(not the old one with a screen built in that ran os8, the tower that ran os9) was released with that crt screen, the powermac g4 was released with the studio display and the powermac g5 was released with the cinema display, so i cant imagine that the "mac pro" would be released without some sort of amazing display.and considering that the studio display already connects to usb and firewire ports[yes, i know that(for now) the purpose of those connections is ports on the back of the display], there should be an iSight and an infrared sensor on the new display.

[blah @ Jul 5th 2006 8:49AM]

"a quad core mac pro would have to use core 2 extreme(woodcrest), the xeon replacement"

yes, i know it could also use kentsfield, but i doubt that all "mac pro"s will use quad core processors, and i also doubt that some mac pros would use a different line of processors than others. it will probably be all conroe, all woodcrest or all kentsfeild.

[blah @ Jul 5th 2006 8:55AM]

now what id really like to see is a mac pro with like four kentsfeilds and like 8 gigs of ram standard and with leopard and vista preloaded

[John Stracke @ Jul 5th 2006 9:04AM]

I *hope* they don't keep the G5 design; it's amazingly ugly. I love my wife's G4, both for looks and for the fact that it's the easiest machine to open that I've ever seen. I just wish they'd kept the crack pipe away from the guys designing the drive bays.

[John Stracke @ Jul 5th 2006 9:07AM]

blah writes: "first of all, the powermac quad core has four separate processors on two chips, NOT TWO DUAL CORE PROCESSORS."

...and what do you think the difference is? A dual core processor is two separate processors on one chip. Are you perhaps thinking of hyperthreading, which pretends to be two processors but isn't?

McPhearsom writes: "This can't be true, is conroe even 64bit?"

I believe all Intel's dual core chips are 64-bit.

[Jimbob @ Jul 5th 2006 3:02PM]

ermm, Apple seem to call the G5s dual core: http://www.apple.com/uk/powermac/dualcore.html

"Enter the dual-core PowerPC G5 processor: one silicon chip with two independent 2.5GHz processor cores. Now take two of those chips and you have the Power Mac G5 Quad, for groundbreaking quad-core processing."

[McPhearsom @ Jul 5th 2006 6:42PM]

Hmm, I checked Intel's site and they don't say the Core 2 Duo is actually 64bit, it just supports 64bit, presumeably meaning it can support extra RAM. I don't think it is actually 64bit or they'd advertise it as a 64bit chip just as AMD advertise their Athlon 64s.

From the looks of it using Core 2 duo wouldn't actually make the Mac Pro any faster than the current G5 Quads, infact it would be slower since you can only have one dual core CPU.

Apple really should have gone for AMD, they win for performance, Intel chips are just better value for money but since when have Apple's PowerMacs been about value for money? They're meant to be ultimate desktop workstations, not value home computers. Core Duos are designed with laptops and home PCs in mind, they are cool and use little power, which is irrelevant when you're spending thousands on a Mac Pro, unless of course you have multiple CPUs which is not something Core Duo is designed for.

Intel had better release the mother of all chips for the Mac Pro or i'm building my own PC to run MacOS rather than 'upgrade' my G5.

Also, the G5 case isn't actually that big, the Antec P180 on my PC is actually bigger and weighs almost the same but without any handles or as good airflow. If you buy a replacement G5 case it's about the same price although it doesn't support standard PC motherboards since it's all been custom designed.

[64 bit @ Jul 5th 2006 10:33PM]

Core 2 Duo (Conroe) is 64 bit. Core Duo is not. Intel doesn't market Core 2 Duo as 64-bit because they don't market Core 2 Duo at all yet, it isn't out.

Woodcrest is also 64-bit.

I expect Apple will use FBD RAM (to allow more DIMM sockets) and only Woodcrest supports that, so that means Woodcrest in all towers.

Perhaps there's a chance of an oddball bottom-end configuration like the 1.6GHz G5 towere was. But I don't think Woodcrest costs all that much more than Conroe in the low-end configs anyway, so it isn't a sure thing.

McPhearsom - Core Duo already outperforms AMD X2 clock-for-clock and far outperforms it per Watt. Core 2 Duo widens the lead, extends the clock ranges and then you have Woodcrest on top of that.

I do like AMD, but saying Apple should have taken AMD for the performance makes no sense in this particular timeframe.

[Escobar @ Jul 6th 2006 8:16PM]

Great news. I love the G5 hardware design.

Anyways, I hope this rumor is real. I am going to buy a MacBook really soon. But if a new MacBook Pro comes out, I'll definately buy that instead. I can afford a MacBook Pro but I don't really like the design for some reason. I like MacBook's design more. I hope the new MacBook Pro model will be in glossy white or something.

Btw, when is Leopard coming out? I know its going to be shown on August 7th. I'm sorry everyone, I'm new to Mac. Again, I'm buying a MacBook really soon. Anything think I should wait a while and see if anything new comes out? (notebook only; I don't have room for a desktop). And I also don't truly understand hardware terms and stuff. Anyone know a site where I can learn more than basics? thanks

[e-mail] (soon to be Mac user)

[Miguel Andr�s @ Jul 9th 2006 3:04PM]

You guys need to read stuff before posting. Intel Core 2 processors (ALL of them, Conroe, Merom, Kentsfield and Woodcrest) will run on the Intel Core Microarchitecture (not to be confused with Intel Core Chips, those are different!).

Intel Core chips are NOT 64 bit machines, however, Intel Core 2 will be 64-bit, ALL of them. All processors based on the Intel Core Microarchitecture will be EM64T enabled. EM64T is Intel's implementation of AMD64 technology.

Meaning Conroe, Woodcrest, Merom, Kentsfield... all will be 64 bit. While Conroe won't be able to have multiple processors in the same computer (remember, multiple processors isn't the same as multiple cores), Woodcrest will. Kentsfield will be quad core, so I don't see a "performance hit" on PowerMacs. In fact, I'm a Power PC hater, I see a performance boost ;).

Intel chips right now suck, to be honest, but it is expected that the release of Core 2 will turn things around and make AMD chips actually slower than Core 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM64T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2

[Sam Obletz @ Jun 1st 2008 11:29PM]

Just so you all know,
The new Mac Pros will not be using "Woodcrest" quad-core chips, but rather chips codenamed "Kentsfield", that are similar to Conroe but can function with 4 cores on a single chip.

[MacMan @ Aug 3rd 2006 12:27PM]

Octo-procs may possibly be configured with dual-kentsfields.

I also find the new Apple naming convention to be very tacky-sounding. PowerBook and PowerMac were just better names.

[Jeff Foster @ Aug 7th 2006 3:37PM]

Nice prediction, Sam Obletz.

tool.

[Erez @ Nov 1st 2006 2:05AM]

There are minor differences between a processor package with two cores on a single unified die where there is some level of inter-core connectivity and sharing of resources (L2 or L3 cache, FSB) and one where two single core dies were "fused" together in the same package but function more like a SMP system (though in a single package, sigle socket solution).
SMP (DP or 4-8 way) is only available from Xeons in Inteldom. For AMD it's the Opteron (2xx, 4xx, 8xx).
If Apple knew of the predicted "Core 2 duo" performance/Mhz and performance/Watt when they decided the switch - They made a wise choice, but a risky one, as Intel might have not delivered as expected or timely...