Microsoft DAP said to be part of Xbox-branded product lineup

Some more details have leaked out about Microsoft's unannounced-but-well-known WiFi-enabled digital music player that shed some light on its role in Microsoft's overall home entertainment strategy -- though you'll still have to deal with that blurry pic for now. According to sources cited by The Seattle Times, the upcoming DAP is only one of several offerings that will be part of a larger lineup of Xbox-branded products, which will also include Microsoft's upcoming online media service -- the one that will dupe all your iTunes tracks for free -- and a dedicated software media player. Codenamed Project Argo, this initiative is said to be spearheaded by Xbox co-founder J Allard, and is rumored to support the so-called XNA toolkit for allowing developers to easily port games to multiple platforms -- possibly setting the stage for that heavily-rumored Xbox2Go. There's not too much here that we didn't already know, but it's becoming increasingly clear that Redmond has a definite battle plan for waging war against Apple and others in your living room (and pocket), and that the company is starting to make good on its promise of turning the 360 into a true digital hub.

[Via Joystiq]

[Jonathan Bryce M @ Jul 10th 2006 2:17PM]

I'm really looking foward to seeing what Microsoft can do here. They've already proved they can go from newbie to a force to be wreckoned with in the gaming arena. They seem to be the only company left that would have what it takes to take on Apple.

And now it makes sense about why J Allard is no longer the face of Xbox.

[AJ @ Jul 10th 2006 2:30PM]

microsoft always finds a way to screw themselves over, so i doubt they will take down apple with this, most likely it will have a horrible design like most microsoft products, and knowing MS they will probably run some form of windows OS on it, so expect viruses and system crashes! i personally think the ipod is a bunch of featureless crap, but apple just has too much momentum to be stopped. theres always sony!

[Spyvie @ Jul 10th 2006 2:34PM]

Take on Apple? Outside of the DAP market Apple has already been taken.

[Jeff @ Jul 10th 2006 2:37PM]

The more I hear about this, the less interested I am.

Does anybody at MS actually study the market to try to see what's successful and why? This really seems to be the whole "if MS designed the iPod box" spoof video put into action. The whole idea behind the success of all the devices MS is supposedly taking on is simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. They're instead now launching an entire "product line" of X-branded devices and services that cross-blend all these various technologies including XNA, XBLA, Windows Live, and whatever else.

Nuh-uh, ain't gonna work. Nobody's interested in that. People are interested in things that do one thing and one thing well and that they don't have to think about. This ain't that.

[jonathan @ Jul 10th 2006 2:39PM]

Very good, Spyvie! But this is INSIDE the DAP that we're talking about!

[Wonderboy @ Jul 10th 2006 2:40PM]

-Spyvie

Um... it's a DAP thread... hence the comparison to Apple... duh.

[Jarod @ Jul 10th 2006 3:08PM]

By the time the EU finishes with Microshit, there should be nothing left. Another Microshit product? NEEEEXXT! move along, nothing to see here.

[JinKazama @ Jul 10th 2006 3:10PM]

Fatal Mistake #1: Xbox branding...

I like the idea of a deep pocket apple competitor, if nothing else to keep them on their toes.

If I am Creative, iriver, etc...I AM PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My "partner" so to speak is now going to become my direct competitor in hardware. If I was those guys I'd be looking for a partnership between all those who adopted playforsure to go after both MS and apple. I am sure between all the great minds at those places they could come up with a darn good player and download service to rival MS and apple.

This whole things looks exactly like how MS tried to tackle Sony in gaming...#1 backing but destined to be a distant second.

[Blue @ Jul 10th 2006 3:21PM]

Jeff,
I hate to break it to you, but you do not speak for everyone. The large number of Treo and Motoroloa Q sales are a perfect example that some people do want devices that do more than one thing.

People seem to be enjoying watching video on their ipods as well. Media Center PC's are selling well. People are buying games and music for the phones also.

You do not equal everyone.

[Sean DL @ Jul 10th 2006 3:27PM]

Sarcasm will only get you so far.

Anywho...I have a feeling that this product will be tied into MTV Urge(Since MS put money into it) and will be called Urge Live, or something Live, since they love putting Live in all MS products these days(thus tying it in with the X-Box line).

[Jason @ Jul 10th 2006 3:29PM]

JinKazama - If you have been asleep for a couple of months we can all understand... Creative labs doesn't use PMC software on there players anymore... They wrote there own... I have one of the original Zen PMC's and I LOVE IT! But all the new ones they built use their own interface. Also... the XBOX brand is VERY strong and you will soon see (come november) that MS is going to take the lead in the console war...

Creative and the likes have been making MP3 harware for YEARS... if they haven't come up with any player that people see as a good alternative to the iPod then they have no room to complain. Just because MS makes it easy for ALL the other DAP makers to unify against Apple (PlaysForSure) doesn't mean MS shouldn't join that front.

Tell me this... Why can't ANY of these DAP makers put a GOOD FM Transmitter inside the player?!?! My Sirius radio's transmitter works GREAT but I can't get ANY of the 3rd party FM Transmitters to work worth a damn in my car.

[daschupa @ Jul 10th 2006 3:37PM]

It kind of nerves me with this itunes copying move. On the surface it looks cool, but it almost appears as a slick move by the recording industry to unclench itunes dominance on downloadable music to Microsoft who is far more likely to sponsor flexible pricing on music (i.e. 3.00 for a Beetles tune and .10 for a korn song).

This is pure tinfoil hat stuff, but it still is unnerving that Microsoft actually has a plan or that RIAA is kind enough to allow such a convenience (unless MS is paying through the butt for it).

[JRM @ Jul 10th 2006 3:42PM]

in this age of high technology, there's no excuse for having (or taking) a blurry pic.

[JinKazama @ Jul 10th 2006 3:46PM]

Thanks for the clarification Jason.

Couple things...you're crazy if you think the 360 will overtake Sony and Nintendo in November. The PS2 has outsold the 360 since it came out. The Wii looks awesome and I don't think a an expensive PS3 will change the 360's fortunes that much. After almost a year of being out and not selling, why would people buy a $299-$399 because the PS3 is too expensive when they can have a $199-$249 Wii?

FM transmitter:
Before I became an ipod convert I felt the same...once I broke down and got an 5G ipod, I found a great FM transmitter from Kensington...see below.

http://us.kensington.com/html/6402.html

[Blue @ Jul 10th 2006 3:55PM]

"fter almost a year of being out and not selling, why would people buy a $299-$399 because the PS3 is too expensive when they can have a $199-$249 Wii?"


Well the lower pricepoint of the game cube certainly helped it to crush the original xbox. Oh wait, no it didn't.

I am a huge Wii fanboy, but I have to say that the xbox 360 has a very good chance of doing well in the us marketplace.

"It kind of nerves me with this itunes copying move. On the surface it looks cool, but it almost appears as a slick move by the recording industry to unclench itunes dominance on downloadable music to Microsoft who is far more likely to sponsor flexible pricing on music (i.e. 3.00 for a Beetles tune and .10 for a korn song)."

Well isn't a good thing for there to be more choice and flexibility in the marketplace? Or are monopolies only a bad thing when Microsoft has them?

[jordan @ Jul 10th 2006 3:58PM]

you honestly have to be kidding yourself to think that an xbox player, created by MICROSOFT, with all their patches, viruses, and other driver issues, is going to come out with a simple product with legitimate software that is as streamlined, and easy to use as iTunes, or better for that matter. There's a reason why SONY, or iRiver, and others have failed to compete against Microsoft. Honestly Sony would be the better competitor because they traditionally make the "sexy" hardware, what has Microsoft made that is sexy??? Xbox?? a big black box that came in THIRD worldwide?? Or 360, that cannot even outsell gamecube, or the game boy advance in sales on a continuous basis??? it's just sad... and this whole taking your iTunes song is a JOKE made up by Microsoft fanboys who think that Apple would allow that to happen without any legal problems... please! You have to decrypt the Apple encoded music files which isn't legal! good luck Microsoft, you're gonna need it, cause you can't buy off the music industry, who is seeing staggering sales through iTunes, keep in mind that the ipod has sold over 40 million systems, and has hardly been out for 5 years, that's a HUGE userbase to tackle as well that the music industry knows will continue to buy songs for many years to come... let's think this through ppl

[jordan @ Jul 10th 2006 4:03PM]

the gamecube sales and gba sales in Japan, just to correct my typing error...

[flamer's grill @ Jul 10th 2006 4:09PM]

You guys don't get it - the interface has already been released. Check out the new Toshiba Gigabeat. There's a video floating around somewhere, I think on YouTube but i can't find it, and the interface is pretty intuitive.

Competition is good. At the very least, this may spur Apple to improve their products and your entire iTunes experience. Microsoft's entry into this market should be heralded as GREAT news for everyone while still allowing room to be skeptical.

[primetime @ Jul 10th 2006 4:11PM]

jordan... Microsoft will not be using the actual iTunes files. They will be scanning what you have and crediting you with these songs from their own music service. This is where it must be nice to have deep pockets. They will not be actually using an protected iTune files. Use your head kid.

[Blue @ Jul 10th 2006 4:12PM]

"you honestly have to be kidding yourself to think that an xbox player, created by MICROSOFT, with all their patches, viruses, and other driver issues, is going to come out with a simple product with legitimate software that is as streamlined, and easy to use as iTunes, or better for that matter. There's a reason why SONY, or iRiver, and others have failed to compete against Microsoft. Honestly Sony would be the better competitor because they traditionally make the "sexy" hardware, what has Microsoft made that is sexy??? Xbox?? a big black box that came in THIRD worldwide?? Or 360, that cannot even outsell gamecube, or the game boy advance in sales on a continuous basis??? it's just sad... and this whole taking your iTunes song is a JOKE made up by Microsoft fanboys who think that Apple would allow that to happen without any legal problems... please! You have to decrypt the Apple encoded music files which isn't legal! good luck Microsoft, you're gonna need it, cause you can't buy off the music industry, who is seeing staggering sales through iTunes, keep in mind that the ipod has sold over 40 million systems, and has hardly been out for 5 years, that's a HUGE userbase to tackle as well that the music industry knows will continue to buy songs for many years to come... let's think this through ppl"

Ok, lets think this through:

1. MS wouldn't have to decrypt your itunes purchased songs. They could simply identify the song and replace it with their file. Poof!

2. The music industry has been fighting with Apple for months if not years over the pricing model for the Itunes Store. They would surely throw their weight behind a service that offered them better pricing options.

3. The 40 million ipod sales figure is slightly misleading. How many of those original ipods are still working? How many have been upgraded several times?

4. This is still a very young market and has alot more room for competition. The MS media players could carve out a very healthy and profitable portion of the marketplace.

5. Sony never competed because they are a disaster of a company currently. They continue to force propietary formats on the market, and are too large of a company to quickly adapt to market changes. They are burdened with decreasing market share, and an incredible amount of debt. Creative and Iriver are too small of companies to have the ability to compete on this large of a scale.

6. The xbox 360 continues to outsell the gamecube by a wide margin worldwide. Take your fanboy goggles off for a moment and you will see that, outside of the ever shrinking Japanese market, the xbox 360 has done well so far. People are buying a great deal of games for it, and their online marketplace is showing an incredible amount of promise.

7. Comparing a OS such as windows, which is burdened with having to work with a wide variety of hardware configurations and third party software, to a piece of portable electronics is faulty.

[okram23 @ Jul 10th 2006 4:29PM]

are you guys serious?

the toshiba player with the microsoft software on it got great reviews and urge/wmp 11 are also getting good reviews. Do you really think that just b/c there are so many ipods out there that there isn't room for another 40 million microsoft ipodish players? come'on

with windows being on >90% of systems and more and more people buying mp3/video players why would they not be able to get people to buy them.

I am a huge apple fanboy (as you say) but I know many people who are not and many who hate itunes. They would jump on a player that works straight out the box with their pc. I even try to get people to use itunes and many don't like it and others that i get to try it, use it but aren't to crazy about it.

[jordan @ Jul 10th 2006 4:54PM]

better pricing options to make songs even more expensive for the average consumer to afford? what are they going to say, yea, we'll lower one song to .79 cents and raise another to $1.25, no, they'll raise all of them because they think they own the world w/ their music, either way they AVERAGE out will be the next argument you wanna make, well, what is .99 cents??? an AVERAGE, a balanced pricing scheme works much better, look at ANY OTHER MUSIC SERVICE that is staggered, have they broke the BILLION SONG MARK??? are they even close??? NO, why, because the CONSUMER appreciates a simple pricing plan. Sony may be a company in disarray, but they still have the most audio clout in the industry next to APPLE, if not more, in other areas such as home audio systems, car systems, etc. they aren't just making a fool out of themselves in the portable market. obviously they are a well respected company if their video game systems more than tripled the xbox sales... and by the way, the Japanese market isn't shrinking, it's the American market growing, yet the Japanese market IS crucial, because one system known as the DS, has sold over 9 million systems, faster than PS2, or PSP, or XBOX, and that number is greater than many psp sales combined in the handheld market WORLDWIDE, not just on a local basis, JAPAN is the place where the majority of video game systems orginate, and the MOST POPULAR systems are created, so having a strong DEVELOPER backing by the JAPANESE, IS crucial, our games may not sell well there, but THEIR games sell well here, the developers still don't respect the XBOX brand near as much... i'm not saying that MS won't do decent, they just won't come into a market with the ipod killer that every other company has tried to make, and kill apple, and my apologies for not reading into the whole MS crediting system...

[jill @ Jul 10th 2006 7:16PM]

One question and I would doubt that anyone could answer it specifically, but

what company is the potential supplier of the chips to be used?

tia

[Oddmanout @ Jul 11th 2006 1:42AM]

"...knowing MS they will probably run some form of windows OS on it, so expect viruses and system crashes!"

I like to bash MS too, but the truth is they've gotten better since the turn of the century. Win95 had tons of nice new features over 3.1, but crashed like it was getting paid to. Win98 was a step up, Win98SE was an even bigger improvement. I would hazard to call Win2K stable, and I would almost call WinXP reliable. And yes, my HPCs and PocketPCs crash and hang more than my Zaurus or Clie, but by and large microsofts embedded stuff is pretty stable. If MS continues this trend in a new line of Xbox branded portables, theres a good chance they will put out some quality stuff.

Even though there are a number of detractors in this thread, I must say it's surprising how mass opinion has changed. Last gen (console generation) Sony was nigh deified, and MS was ridiculed to no end. Now the tide is turning, people are watching the Xbox and it's peripherals with hope and interest, while the PS3 is being looked on increasingly as the forthcomming "Spruce Goose" of the console arena. Sales of late might favor Sony thus far, but people the world over seem to be warming up to MS and the Xbox brand. Just the way Gates said they planned to make progress in this market...a little at a time...

You never can tell...and it will only get MORE interesting when the PS3 and Wii drop...

[Ashton Tibbitt @ Jul 12th 2006 9:28PM]

Microsoft is nowhere near original!

Come on people!!! The DAP market is already found the best: iPod!

We don't need anything else.

Just keep to your own thing(ie making a VERY crappy OS). Stop trying to follow Apple.

I bet the Zune is just a case with an iPod inside running some form of Windows Mobile or whatever. I wouldn't be suprised. LOL

Either way, I will never give up my iPod.

I'm sure many people will agree with me also.