Microsoft portable to be a totally "Integrated Experience"

From the looks of it our own Stephen Speicher was on to something in his latest edition of The Clicker. We've received word from a trusted insider (no, not Mr. Speicher) that the shape everyone's been expecting the Zune to take may not be the approach most people (including us) assumed. Here's what we learned:

• The Zune name isn't being kicked around with Microsoft; so as far as we know that's still a project codename, but probably will not be the device's final title. This is no surprise.
• Microsoft's forthcoming portable will not use Microsoft's established media platforms. This includes Windows Media, Windows Media Player, URGE, PlaysForSure DRM, and probably also Portable Media Center. Instead it will use its own software, music store, and DRM that will be incompatible with all the major stores, systems, and device out there right now. Yes, this will piss off the industry (and some of the Microsoft faithful) to no end.
  
• Due to this approach, the system is being referred to as the "Integrated Experience." This, we can assume, is not going to be positioned as the final name for the device, but the implications of the description and MO are clear.
  
• It will be wireless and not flash-based, so large storage capacities are to be expected; wireless music trading is an important part of the device's feature set and marking presence. This we all already knew.
  
• All this information does not conflict with information we've received from our other trusted sources.

We know, we know, this raises more questions than it answers. When Microsoft has already invested millions in establishing their software and DRM platforms, hooking up with huge names like Napster, Yahoo, Real, and MTV, and encouraging hardware partners to get Microsoft-centric devices on the market, now they're going to throw all that away and compete with everyone else (and themselves)? Well, the answer is very simple. In order to fight fire with fire against Apple, it's obvious a music service + device ecosystem like what Microsoft offers now can't compare to the user experience of an incredibly tight vertical integration. Microsoft can't take on the iPod without taking on its own platforms and partners -- they have to fight fire with fire.

If J. Allard and his crew at Microsoft really are behind this project, these details make perfect sense. The corporate culture of the company is such that Allard's team is expected to work outside the confines of Microsoft's typical boundaries, which might otherwise hinder the company getting a foothold in previously unentered markets. Does anyone actually think the Xbox 360 is anything like the normal Microsoft product and marketing experience? No. But it's definitely shaping up so Microsoft's media player is going to be more media player than Microsoft.

[abigsmurf @ Jul 21st 2006 1:14PM]

This is just going to be another origami isn't it? An overhyped product that fails to deliver on its promises and sits in an odd place in the market

[Bosco @ Jul 21st 2006 1:24PM]

When Microsoft says it's an "integrated experience," it usually means frustration and non-functioning.

With all the hype on this thing, it better do my laundry too, like the Origami (oh wait, that was just hype too.)

[shirizaki @ Jul 21st 2006 1:24PM]

If you compete with yourself, isn't that a win/win situation?

In order to compete, they would ahve to make a more intuitive media playe rthan iPod and price their songs at the same level or lower that iTunes. People buy the iPod because it's part media player, part sociall statement. If they make a removable battery, better life span, and a better UI, they might be able to compete toe to toe.

But if that player only works with MS software and audio/video content, that'll turn me off right there. At least when I buy an iPod, I have some give in what music service I choose to use.

[Ryan @ Jul 21st 2006 1:26PM]

Sounds good to me if it's true. Microsoft really needs to challenge its public image if they intend to enter such an image-driven market. Now all I'm waiting for is dedicated PC hardware and a brand new (non-Windows) OS and we're in business.

[shon @ Jul 21st 2006 1:27PM]

I dont care what anyone else thinks, ZUNE was a killer name. catchy, unique and you'll deffinitely remember it. Everyone likes the letter Z; its edgy.

I'll wait for more info on this and the video ipod before i buy.

[Dolomite @ Jul 21st 2006 1:28PM]

Enough with the viral marketing already. It didn't work for the Origami, and it won't work for the Zune. The more I read about this thing, the more pathetic it sounds.

[Jeff @ Jul 21st 2006 1:29PM]

"But it's definitely shaping up so Microsoft's media player is going to be more media player than Microsoft."

Huh? It sounds to me like exactly what MS always does. You're puffing a bit at the end there, which is unbecoming.

Create brand new, proprietary, non-standard formats not supported by anybody else (including themselves)? Check.

Piss off all of its former partners? Check.

Copy what another company has done while pretending they invented the whole product category? Check.

What about this strikes you as not Microsoft-like?

What would be unlike MS would be to do what even most iPod owners wish someone would do - create a music store and use their leverage (as Yahoo is trying to do) to get rid of DRM. You think that wouldn't give them a huge leg up on Apple? That would pretty much destroy the iTunes Music Store by the second week of the battle. And that's half the war won right there.

[Brad @ Jul 21st 2006 1:30PM]

Origami? Did you read the Clicker article?

Origami is the quintessential old-skool Microsoft project: develop the platform and the software, then let "partners" screw up the actual devices. No different than Plays For Sure.

It's clear they're taking the Apple/Xbox approach: end to end. Third parties only come into play with accessories. Hype? Yeah, again: Apple. Xbox.

As an Apple fanboy (who uses a Microsoft mouse), I'm excited to see what they've come up with. They'll probably make a couple of mistakes, but there will surely be some innovation in there too.

[ron g @ Jul 21st 2006 1:31PM]

This is rich. M$ is now trying to take the same path as the iPod, iTunes and iTMS system; the same system that they and all of its fans were critizing for the last 4 years as being closed, unfriendly and blah, blah, blah...

Not to mention that Apple's method of vertical integration is actually open in that they do allow for other fomats to be used within the system whereas Microsoft will not allow other formats to be used within their system.

If Microsoft consumers buy into this they are dumber than I thought.

I still can't see how M$ will enable this great and grand sharing feature that is being talked up. The labels will never go for this. If it does transpire it will be crippled fantastic - so much so that it will not resemble anything that you could really call sharing.

[The Jeremy @ Jul 21st 2006 1:37PM]

I like Allard and the Xbox division. Although I'd like them a lot more if they were spun-off into a separate company from Microsoft and then chose to buy up "Atari" from Infogrames and then renamed the newly spun-off independent company as such.

I think the Zune is not going to be a "halo-effect" product that will get Joe Consumer to buy MediaCenter Windows computers OR the Xbox360. In fact, I think it is going to be an unsuccessful distraction for the Xbox team when they should be concentrating on making the Xbox360 an actual success at beating the PS3 and the Wii. And thus despite their virtual-autonomy, the Xbox division is being manipulated to do the "engulf and plunder" bidding that the rest of Microsoft is so well known for.

I'm even willing to bet that there was a possibility at hammering out an agreement earlier with Apple to allow iTunes synching between the iPod and the Xbox360 (and I'm sure the Xbox division wanted it) but was probably torpedoed by the rest of Microsoft demanding Apple license the WMA format and include it (along with royalty payments) per iPod sold as a required condition. This is the true problem with that company. One division is forced to prop up the rest of the mediocrity from that company. Just as the Xbox team HAS TO support HD-DVD (albeit limited currently) because Microsoft has to protect its revenues from the iHD software included with each deck manufactured as well as hopefully making their VC-1 (aka WindowsMedia9) codec uniform on each movie title distributed so WindowsMedia11 doesn't ultimately get sunk by iTunes/QuickTime and its support for the superior H.264 MPEG4 codec.

[zune @ Jul 21st 2006 1:39PM]

Microsoft has been pushing for the .mobi internet extension. The zunde device should be able to browse these sites.

[peter @ Jul 21st 2006 1:40PM]

Thanks for rewriting this and fixing other dumb posts recently.

[Bryan @ Jul 21st 2006 1:41PM]

Bosco,

Windows, Media Center, Xbox, music-services, Microsoft TV, and hardware have always been disparate groups and businesses within Microsoft, and this organization has garnered more competition than cooperation between these groups. As such: integration between these products and services has always been an edge-feature that are relatively difficult to coordinate. Now everyone is reporting to the same VP, and their mission (not just a feature) is vertical integration.

[Jeff @ Jul 21st 2006 1:41PM]

What I have yet to see from all this is somehting that is really appealing to the masses over and above what Apple is doing. Ok, a tightly integrated offering is smart. That's really importatnt in order to compete with iPod and iTunes. Everything has to be slick, easy and work very well together. No fumbling around with tech support should be necessary.

But what else is there to make it more attractive than iPod/iTunes? Will the service offer Hollywood movie downloads? Better pricing than iTunes? There has to be something better in order to really steal attention away from Apple. I mean, if MS launches in Oct/Nov in time for holiday season then that's a good step. But if Jobs and Co roll out a full fledged video iPod in January with Hollywood movie downloads then the thunder is stolen very quickly.

The WiFi integration is interesting, but I don't think it's as useful as it's being played up to be. Forget for a moment that the vast majority of areas outside of the home do not have any WiFi coverage at all. Now consider all the places that do have WiFi, but don't have free or simple access WiFi. How easy will it be to enter security passkeys, account information for fee based WiFi access, etc? What about data security? DRM will probably protect music on the device but what if I have other data while using the devicde for double duty as external storage? Will casual and novice users be able to easily setup such measures to protect against data theft? These are all important questions relating to the one feature that seems to really differentiate the Zune.

In my mind, they'll need more than that to really make a splash and compete.

Jeff

[fannyboy @ Jul 21st 2006 1:47PM]

Um. I don't like the letter Z

[bzx @ Jul 21st 2006 1:53PM]

Whatever this device does and no matter how well it works, it can't possibly be half as entertaining as the incredibly inept criticism it and MS have been drawing on this and other threads.

[Silver @ Jul 21st 2006 1:54PM]

Yo, it's not "J. Allard" (period = uncool), it's "J Allard" (no period = hip & hot), which all started (at birth) with "James" (= ultra uncool). Please don't spoil Microsoft's carefully crafted marketing with such glaring errors.

This may be changed to "X Allard" down the road, depending on how the marketing goes...

[dave95 @ Jul 21st 2006 1:54PM]

So who will eat CROW first? Bill or Ballmer?

These two along with R. Glaser, Napster CEO, fans all said the Apple's way of a closed system was not going to work. It was all about choice, choice, choice, consumers wanted choice! PrayForSure was introduced! Now they are following Apple's blueprint. Not only that, they will kill-off their 'partners' in doing so by competing in their own WMA market. And this company still has supporters?

[Smizz Ali @ Jul 21st 2006 1:54PM]

Yeah... yeah... yeah... imitating apple's strategy of integrating everything. They will implement another DRM in the portable and will not be surprised if it only connects with media player. I mean they are adding some nice features... I do like the WiFi but chances are they will only use it for purchasing music on the road, nothing else. Most of my music comes from CD's and downloading off of special places so I wouldn't be using the WiFi much.

To me this is just another portable music player that will retail for 300 bucks, this time with some hype for it's launch... But the name iPod is already brainwashed in the minds of everyone. There is no hope, microsoft should just only try to capitalize on the cheapo Mp3 player market (sub 50 dollar price range) and work their way up from there. If you build a name, they will come"

[Kevin @ Jul 21st 2006 1:56PM]

I am sure Apple will soon be announcing something big. Features much like what the Zune is offering at the same price points. Current guesses are that a 30GB Zune will be $399. If Apple offer the 60GB (or even many 80GB) player with the same features with an already solid customer base. I don't think the Zune will have much of a chance.

[mcepat @ Jul 21st 2006 1:57PM]

"Integrated Experience."

I have never really understood this whole seamless simple thing that apparently Apple has with Itunes and Windows Media Player does not?

I am on my third media player, creative zen micro, creative zen PMC and now I have a Toshiba Gigabeat S PMC.

I have never ever had any issue with connecting any of these players to WMP and synching content be it music, videos, recorded TV, pictures? I am not sure how much more simple you can make it, I plug it in drag the songs I want over and press sync or setup automatic syncs and just plug the device in. It has been this way since version 10 and now even easier with version 11 beta. I already own the true IPOD killer its the Toshiba Gigabeat S, same size, better screen can sync very easy and I can transfer Recorded TV which IPOD cannot, unless you count the TV downloads that cost money, mine is free. And the UI which now looks exactly like media center 2005 just runs circles around the much dated IPOD UI, the PMC UI is very very simple just like the IPOD it just can do way more then the IPOD UI can.

In my book they have already killed IPOD with the "Integrated Experience."

TOSHIBA GIGABEAT S + WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER 11 + URGE

Oh ya I get a FM tuner to boot

[cristian @ Jul 21st 2006 1:58PM]

proprietary piss off.

[jim @ Jul 21st 2006 2:07PM]

Not sure how MS expects to compete after delivering the completely inept WMP10 for WM5. While WM10 and 11 are fine for XP - the mobile interface for WM5 is horrendous!

On my 5 year old MP3 player (which cost $60 at the time) I press PLAY and boom - music starts - with WM5 you press play and it says OH NO - you have to tell me EVERY F#$@!N time where the music is - I'm not just going to let you enjoy music THAT easily! So you scroll through the directories and then you think - OH BOY I'm going to get to play my music back now - but NOOOO you have to tell it each time which music you want to hear. I can't expect it to just play everything in that directory - that would be FAR too easy. I can creat playlists but of course I'd have to modify them EACH time I copied or removed a song from my device and I still have to load up a playlist each time I wanted to hear music!

For anyone who says yeah but WM5 has a lot of other functions other than playing music - funny I'm pretty sure XP has about 100 more times more functions than WM5 yet it does an adequate job of playing music as well.

When MS can remove their thumbs from orafices where they don't belong and get WM5 media player to be truly functional then MS will be ready to play the mobile media player game in my opinion.

If Bill G. was given an IPOD to use for a week and then they said - Bill we're replacing your MP3 player with a WM5 running WMP10 - I'm sure they would be out of a job by the end of the day and anyone in the WMP10 mobile edition development team would be shipped off to Bombay to answer Teir 1 tech support calls for the remainder of their days.

[Silver @ Jul 21st 2006 2:26PM]

"Oh ya I get a FM tuner to boot"

Yay! Static-filled overplayed commercial music full of ads! Hooray!

[jack_brack @ Jul 21st 2006 2:29PM]

so, when apple locks you into 1 player, 1 software, 1 music store, 1 music format, it's called vertical integration and bally-hooed as the penultimate in technogoly/business synergy.

when someone else does it, it's a "monopoly"

well F#$* you iSheep a-holes for so easily and blindly buying into Apple's DRM-ed to sh!t model that the rest of the business world is moving that way too.

Think Different my @ss. You i-holes deserve to get your freedom taken away.

And yes, you are locked into 1 format, because you can't do crap with the DRM'ed AAC you buy off iTunes.

[Lee @ Jul 21st 2006 2:31PM]

As much as I dislike Microsoft, this actually sounds like it may be successful. Between the actual innovation part of it, and the fact that this group is able to do things its own way without regard to the rest of the corporation(unlike the minidisc with sony) seems to give this a pretty good chance.

[zachary @ Jul 21st 2006 2:32PM]

Jim, did you even read the post???
The Zune/Argo will have nothing to do with WMP10 or WM5. Everyones to caught up with how the Oragami's viral marketing failed to realize this actually has potential. It takes a big name like Microsoft to get people to realize that theyre getting ripped off by Apple.

[Poopmaster @ Jul 21st 2006 2:53PM]

Microsoft and innovative go together like milk and Coke. Even if they pull off something in the same league as the iPod, that's stretching the Xbox division thin, and that's something that you can't afford to do in the console marketplace. I just don't see any consumer demand for yet another music store with yet another format and yet another MP3 player that won't play MP3s. Hello Microsoft? Why don't you focus on fixing the stuff you ship before throwing more products in the air?

[Fred @ Jul 21st 2006 2:53PM]

So people are getting ripped off my Apple but Microsoft is going to offer half the capacity at the same price. There's some incredibly bad logic going on here.

[jbelkin @ Jul 21st 2006 2:55PM]

This thing will flop as with every piece of MS hardware that strays from being a PC (what was the original Xbox? An Intel PC in a flat shape that pretty much played PC games online without as many hassles of incompatibilties).

Why? Because MS will attempt to cram everything possible in the delusion (in their case - Poweroint delusion) that more is better, when more is really brochureware.

Yes, if you ask people - they do want a portable PDA-mp3 player-phone-video screen- game machie, etc ... everyone says yes but when time comes ... do they want a brick or a battery life of 2 hours or the hassle of learning ANOTHER MS OS or pay $699 for it?

It's not like MS is privy to some secret technology no one else has - the PSP has a battery life of 2 hours not because Sony doesn't want it to last longer but you can only do so much right now - same with flash or mini HDD - we all know EXACTLY what size is out there and how much it is.

The problem is MS wants to brochureware everytone that it's EVERYTHING but will end up alienating everyone.

It's part XBox portable game save device - same guy who's running XBox ran Dreamcast and Dreamcast had a tinier version.

It's yet ANOTHER WMA player with its own store, it's own sub music protocol and it's own DRM (?) - WTF? So basically, it has to claw its way past Sony, Creative, iRiver & Samsung to compete against Apple - even MS/PC/Windows only fanatics will be confused why Yahoo WMA does not work with their MS WMA player. Talk about inoperability and "proprietary."

MS will want to add a component where you pay them a monthly fee of some kind so they'll dream up wonky add-ons like giving you weather reports (aka: don't look around, check the screen!) and of course, it's not like MS is going to build a giant free WiFi network. If you're at home, it's "free," but elsewhere, - what, $15.99 a month and how much for bandwidth use?

Also note, wiFi is NOT EVDO or broadband. WiFi is fine at home but out there? How long will it take to get FREEBIRD? Never mind a Pauly Shore movie ...

And if this has its own special MS OS and wifi roaming - how fast can the first MS portapotty player get its first virus or spyware?

With MS pleding to spend $40 BILLION to prop up BG & Steve Ballmer's stock with a massive buyback - can they afford to spend $400 per unit to sell this for $400? (like they do with the Xbox) or perhaps this is the last gambit for MS ... forever? Before they realize they do not fall far from the Gates-Ballmer loins and return to their proper roots of selling middleware and mail servers?

[zachary @ Jul 21st 2006 3:03PM]

Last time I checked this was all hype, there haven't been any announcements by microsoft on price or capacity. And you really expect to get a larger screen and wifi for free? Dont even get me started with the Itunes DRM...

[Sketcha77 @ Jul 21st 2006 3:52PM]

For all the people on here saying that Microsoft is competing with its partners and that this new player and service will ruin their relationship, it's obvious that MS only has the iPod on its crosshair!! I'm pretty sure MS has already held discussions with their partners about their plans to enter the DAP market and considering all the information that has been leaked, Creative, Samsung, iRiver etc. would have already been up in arms condemning this project. I've heard nothing from any of the PlaysForSure partners!! And that is because they ARE NOT the competition. And neither are Napster, YahooMusic or Real. The iPod and ITMS is!!

This may not be the best looking device, but all you haters need to stop hating so much. Take a deep breath; it’s not the end of the world.

[josh @ Jul 21st 2006 3:53PM]

"create a music store and use their leverage (as Yahoo is trying to do) to get rid of DRM. You think that wouldn't give them a huge leg up on Apple? That would pretty much destroy the iTunes Music Store by the second week of the battle."

how would that destroy iTMS? must users of it don't even know what DRM is, much less care about it enough to switch over it. only people that read sites like engadget know what DRM is.

[Poopmaster @ Jul 21st 2006 4:14PM]

Jack, are you this stupid on purpose? As for AAC-DRMed tracks, you do know that you can burn your AAC-DRMed tracks to a CD and then reimport them as MP3s, right? As for iTunes being a monopoly, it does support plain Jane MP3s and Audible formats, so Apple doesn't require you to use its formats at all. See, that's the difference between a company dominating the market via customer choice and a company dominating the market through dirty tricks and illegal actions (a la Microsoft). Apple hasn't bought out competitors, hasn't lied to suppliers, hasn't done all the things that Microsoft did to get its monopoly. But don't confuse you with the facts, right?

[dave95 @ Jul 21st 2006 4:22PM]

"how would that destroy iTMS? must users of it don't even know what DRM is"

It will instantly make MS seems like they are for the people/consumers. Most people don't care about DRM (most that know about it anyway) and may sway them to MS side if MS where trying to get rid of DRM. They May even start to look cool again, if they ever where.

[Jerry @ Jul 21st 2006 4:42PM]

So with the talk of wireless networking, presence, and social networking, had anyone thought of a device to device transfer option on the horizon?

Picture it:
Richard: Hey Jane, you gotta hear this new song
Jane: Cool, send it to me...

None of this, "Oh, I have to go back to my computer and download it". The DRM will recognize if you have the rights to listen or not.

PS: I agree that the Zune name is catchy.

[jim @ Jul 21st 2006 5:30PM]

zachary - I read the post. So if the tires you bought blew out at highway speed - would you plan on buying their tires again - do you expect them to be good?

If they can't get WMP10 to be worth using - considering they've had WMP for several versions of pocket PC (this is not their first attempt at making a portable media player interface) what makes you think they will have their ducks in a row this time?

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me. WM5 is an open enough OS that they could develop a media player for it - I guess when apple releases a phone that plays media well MS will wake up. I want to assure you I am NOT an apple fanboy - I have to support those machines and I think they are horrible in a network environment whereas PCs blow them out of the water but MS doesn't know jack about a portable media player based on their various iterations of WMP for pocket PC.

[jack_brack @ Jul 21st 2006 5:32PM]

ha! yeah, go ahead and transcode a 128-bit AAC file to WAV then re-encode back to MP3. Or is that too subtle for you to understand?

And do you not understand that "vertical integration" is just as much a monopoly as WinXP is? The fact that the iPod can play non-DRM MP3 is irrelevant, any other DAP can do the same. The fact that it restricts the way you load it onto your iPod and restricts what you can do with the music you purchase off iTMS makes it monopolistic in nature.

I ain't got no love for M$, but your blind Apple fanboyism lets you rationalize Apple's monopoly while inhibiting true open development on the digital music front. You're just as bad as the RIAA.

[christomapher @ Jul 21st 2006 6:51PM]

[quoted]I dont care what anyone else thinks, ZUNE was a killer name. catchy, unique and you'll deffinitely remember it. Everyone likes the letter Z; its edgy.

I'll wait for more info on this and the video ipod before i buy.[quoted]

Zune is just another classic Microsoft rip-off. First they start off with Windows, we all know where that OS and idea was ripped-off from. Zune? Can't they get more CREATIVE (hint, Creative Zen) than Zune? I know that they might not even use that as the actual DAP name, but still. Microsoft needs to stop with the rip-offs and start with the originalities.

[Trae @ Jul 21st 2006 8:41PM]

"Zune is just another classic Microsoft rip-off. First they start off with Windows, we all know where that OS and idea was ripped-off from."

Xerox?

[TTzz @ Jul 21st 2006 9:02PM]

"The fact that it restricts the way you load it onto your iPod and restricts what you can do with the music you purchase off iTMS makes it monopolistic in nature."

I'm really fed up with the way so many people knock Apple for their DRM. Does anyone really think that the record labels would actually allow Apple to sell music with a less restrictive DRM. There is no way that Apple would be selling any music at all if the DRM ‹as any less restrictive and, let's face it, you can easily circumvent it anyway.

Apple may call the shots on the price of the music but if the labels didn't insist on the DRM they wouldn't put any of their music on ITMS. DRM is there at the insistence of the labels NOT Apple. Apple doesn't make any money from selling music and they would probably sell a hell of a lot more if they could do it without the DRM.

Taking that into consideration, all those that hate the Apple DRM are living in cloud cukoo land if they really think that the M$ Zune DRM is going to be any less restrictive. The labels just won't have it. They're already really regretting allowing Apple to have so much power in the music download business and I seriously doubt they are about to just give it all up to M$ instead.

And all those that complain about the ITMS/iPod lock in and lack of choice, what are you going to say about M$ now deciding that is actually the model that works. ITMS works on Windows and Mac OS. I'll gladly take bets that Zune/ZuneStore won't work on the Mac. So where's the choice in that? Not to mention that all the M$ partners will probably be locked out as well.

At the end of the day the true judge of any product or service is the market and the market has spoken and continues to speak very loudly. ITMS/iPod has got it right.

[TTzz @ Jul 21st 2006 9:38PM]

Well it really is game on now:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/21/technology/microsoft.reut/

[crackhead @ Jul 21st 2006 9:57PM]

I say bring it on. I love Apple, but the iPod hardware/feature set has definitely stagnated. What we need is some good old fashioned competition to stoke the fires of innovation.

[dave95 @ Jul 21st 2006 10:11PM]

To those that say you are locked-in when you are using the iPod. Last time I checked (article I read), most owners of the iPod still buys most of their music the traditional way (CDs), or borrowed from friends, or from their own CD collections. So explain to me again how does that really effect most users when most of their music is loaded onto the iPod via the traditional way, imported from CDs. This digital market is still in its infancy so that locked-in argument does not hold any weight. I personally have about 15 impulse purchased songs from iTunes, the rest (2,500) are mp3s,AAC, and a few lossless.

I think MS realize the market is still in its infancy, that's why they are following the same 'locked-in' blueprint eh.

[AJ @ Jul 22nd 2006 1:41AM]

Personally I'm most looking forward to the wireless music sharing capability, anyone else? Sony should do something like this, make ad hoc music/video sharing in addition to photo sharing.

[mreeve @ Jul 22nd 2006 3:19PM]

Isn't this just a stripped down version of a pda? I can do all this with my ipaq and more.

[Allan @ Jul 23rd 2006 11:05AM]

Quote:
"As for AAC-DRMed tracks, you do know that you can burn your AAC-DRMed tracks to a CD and then reimport them as MP3s, right?"

So they can sound even worse? You realize you LOSE fidelity by doing that, right? How is that a solution?

Quote:
"As for iTunes being a monopoly, it does support plain Jane MP3s and Audible formats, so Apple doesn't require you to use its formats at all. See, that's the difference between a company dominating the market via customer choice and a company dominating the market through dirty tricks and illegal actions (a la Microsoft)."

We're talking about iTunes the store - which only has crappy low bitrate AAC - versus iTunes the software which supports different formats and bitrates and assumes you rip yourself. You're confusing the two which are separate arguments.

[Zune MAX @ Jul 28th 2006 5:01AM]

whats not to like abotu the name zune? is Ipod really that much cooler?

if they don't open up the sharing features on this and make it a closed system then it will fail. I think the best idea I have heard so far is that they should open it to itunes. What faster way to win some fans then to let thme bring their music with them.

The Zune is coming and Apple should prepare for an expensive battle. Face it the Ipod is no tech wonder and it sells because its cool. No matter which way you slice it MS ha the cash to advertise and make theirs cool also. Make it cool enough and bye bye ipod.

I say smart move by going with the artists. Let the cool people make it cool for you.

See more at http://www.zunemax.com/index.php