Saab goes double-green with biofuel hybrid

Not a whole lot of details to be getting on with here, but Saab has confirmed that they have plans to produce a vehicle based on their Bio Power Hybrid concept currently showing at the British International Motor Show. The vehicle combines the potential of E85, a fuel blend with 85% bioethanol from plants, with the further emissions reducing, power increasing and cost reducing perks of an electric motor. The hybrid's batteries replace the spare tire compartment in the car's trunk, and since the Bio Power Hybrid uses run-flat tires, there's essentially nothing lost in the trade-off. Saab's Bio Power models have been especially successful in Saab's home market of Sweden, mainly thanks to the large tax breaks they entail, but even while promising a hybrid within the next few years, Saab is clear that the feature won't come cheap.

[Via MetaEfficient]

[asif @ Jul 21st 2006 10:51AM]

yeah.. too bad there's absolutely no incentive to actually using e85. or buying a hybrid car for that matter...

[Kelmer @ Jul 21st 2006 11:11AM]

You mean no cost incentive right? I mean there's no incentive in recycling, buying from responsible companies, etc etc either right? That's a very dangerous/selfish line of reasoning... No offense meant.

[David @ Jul 21st 2006 11:22AM]

No incentive! What planet do you live on?

[j ron @ Jul 21st 2006 11:23AM]

You're kidding right asif?

Lessen the dependence on foreign oil, more power, lower emissions, better fuel economy are not incentives?

[crescentdave @ Jul 21st 2006 11:42AM]

I believe asif was referring to the idiotic tax breaks bushcorp has given to owners of SUV's, their systematic gutting of the Clean Air Act and their practice of gerry-rigging "credits" to polluting as opposed to non-polluting companies.

It's all a matter of record and fact. This doesn't take away from the fact that such cars have their own, built-in incentives, that have already been mentioned in previous posts.

[Jordan @ Jul 21st 2006 11:46AM]

asif, asif, asif.

You're right, there is no incentive to buy a hybrid car. Oh, other than the $3150 tax CREDIT (not deduction) in effect until September 30th.

Do your reading before you try to get the first post in, and post a QUALITY second or third post rather than starting this discussion on an uninformed note.

There are plenty of advantages and incentives to buying a hybrid car, including monetary, ethical and moral, if you believe so. Many people feel these ways, which is why Toyota has sold 58,000 Prius year to date.

A biofuel hybrid is an excellent way to use less foreign oil.

If a hybrid Saab 9-3 (let's say) gets 40 mpg instead of 25, and you use E85 instead of straight gasoline, you are using roughly 9% of the oil that a normal Saab 9-3 uses.

Now think what would happen if everyone drove one. We have to start thinking about our oil consumption like we think about voting. Yes, you're oil consumption and CO2 production is very small, but on a national scale, it is HUGE. Get out the VOTE and by a green car, man.

[Tyler @ Jul 21st 2006 11:54AM]

I want me a bio diesel/electric plugin

even the rabbit in the 1970's got 50+ MPG all I say is wtf @ no bio diesel/electric

[jedda @ Jul 21st 2006 11:55AM]

I get a tax break because I own an SUV? Sweet! Where can I sign up?

One potential side effect of moving this way though is that the farmers might get way too powerful...

[Crackpipe @ Jul 21st 2006 12:18PM]

So wait a minute... gas stations are gonna start carrying e85 fuel? sweet. I'll convert my car right now. well I would if I still had a car. My crack dealer took it as payment.

[C. Collins @ Jul 21st 2006 12:39PM]

Some stations do carry it...
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm

[cckrobinson @ Jul 21st 2006 1:05PM]

My only knock on E85 is that I get pathetic gas mileage when I use it. It does cost less than standard 87 octane gas, but you need to fill up more often.

I really like the idea of an E85Hybrid combo vehicle. I live in Minneapolis where E85 is fairly common. My wife's next car will probably be the Toyota Sienna Hybrid van if it ever comes out.

[Rob @ Jul 21st 2006 1:13PM]

I'm thankful to see any new hybrid options. However, I worry that running on a fuel that is incredibly hard to find will make this a less desirable vehicle (only two stations in all of California carry e85!). I think Americans would really embrace hybrid station wagons and light vans. Many people need something bigger than a Prius, but want better mileage than the hybrid SUVs. I don't understand why these vehicles aren't on the market yet.

[buck @ Jul 21st 2006 1:47PM]

The only incentives to buy a hybrid car are for the ignorant.

Ethanol costs more than gasoline money-wise, and it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol can produce.

That isn't even considering the massive subsidies that corn farmers get from US taxpayers. Ethanol is a loser on every front.

As for hybrids, where do you think the electricity comes from? Sure, nuclear energy is about as green as you can get, but the US still has plenty of coal power plants. People seem to prefer coal over nuclear "for the environment's sake." Ask southeast asia how that's working for them. The cloud of coal smog keeps you from getting sunburned, I guess.

Go ahead, be green- buy a hybrid and burn more coal instead of gasoline. That'll improve the environment :-)

[jc_atl @ Jul 21st 2006 2:05PM]

What the article fails to mention and GM is forcing SAAB to hide is the fact that this car is also a plug-in. Behind the SAAB emblem on the trunk lid is the socket for a plug-in. GM made them glue it shut because the speculation is that GM would prefer to make a big splash with a different GM brand than SAAB. TrollhattanSAAB's blog has been all over this. GM even forced SAAB to revise the original press release.

[Rob @ Jul 21st 2006 2:17PM]

Buck, you are the LAST person to call other people ignorant. You don't even know how current hybrid vehicles work!

Hybrids do not get electricity from coal. They do not plug into the wall. The only thing you put in a hybrid car is gasoline. Hybrid cars capture wasted kinetic energy via regenerative braking, and this is the super-efficient way that hybrids charge their batteries.

So when you're going 40 MPH and the traffic light in front of you turns red, all that kinetic energy goes to waste in a non-hybrid vehicle. However, a hybrid car will use that kinetic energy to drive a generator, which charges the batteries that power the hybrid's electric motor when the light turns green. Also, hybrid vehicle's gas engines shut off when you're stopped at a traffic light, so you are not wasting gas while your car is just sitting there.

Buck, I suggest you do a little research before you condemn a beneficial technology. And please stop spreading disinformation, you are helping to make other people stupid.

[Jordan @ Jul 21st 2006 3:00PM]

Rob - beautifully said.

There are also arguments for plug-in hybrids (which I assume our enlightened friend buck is talking about, even though they aren't even available yet). While yes, we currently make a lot of electricity from coal in the US, we are moving towards cleaner sources, whether it be nuclear, wind, or the newer alternative, "clean coal." While your spankin' new plug-in hybrid might use a lot of coal instead of gas the first year you buy it, which may be 2008, within a few years after that electricity will only be that much cleaner.

This doesn't even take into account that most of our oil comes from the middle east, while most of our coal does not.

A friend of mine just got his Prius, and another friend of mine is getting one. I want one as well. I don't care if it doesn't save me a dime. I don't care if it COSTS me more to drive it. It reduces our dependency on foreign oil, which is a crucial step towards getting us to energy independence.

[carl @ Jul 21st 2006 3:06PM]

I have read that E85 gets pretty dismal mileage, such that it offsets any savings you might pay per gallon. That's not a great incentive to move away from gasoline, even if it's more earth-friendly. I'm always curious about just how much fuel we can get from plants, and found a blog entry with some numbers (click my name, click my name!). I can only imagine that there'd have to be a gazillion acres of plants in order to adequately supply us with fuel if e85 or biodiesel really takes off. And doesn't that land use open another can of worms?

[asif @ Jul 21st 2006 3:20PM]

wow, i got nailed. i think it's fair to say that the e85
standard in a majority of the country is a moot point.. when there's no delivery options, there's no supply. and considering it takes as much normal gasoline to deliver the stuff as it returns in fuel economy, I'm not buying it.

I also think it's fair to say that while hybrid technology is innovative, and eco-friendly, and uber- good politics, it's also not the economical choice. at least not at $3 a gallon. talk to me at four or five. and there's a study somewhere (i forgot where) that says hybrid technology doesn't show an ROI until five years out. And that's only if you don't have to replace the batteries (out of warranty) before then.

It's not like I'm sitting here working for an oil company or anything... I just think that your fuel alternative lies somewhere else. Hybrid is a stop gap, and I don't think it's a very good one at that.

The alternative fuel that's going to grab the limelight is the one that's nicer to the environment, nicer to your wallet, and nicer to developing countries. Time for the auto industry to stop tip toeing and start looking to make some strides. Even if its ten to 20 years out.

[Bizzle @ Jul 21st 2006 3:25PM]

It needs to be a biodiesel-hybrid.

[Jen @ Jul 21st 2006 4:35PM]

Hooray! I've been wanting one of these. Now if they can only make it ~ 20k, I might be able to afford it.

[Nathan M @ Jul 21st 2006 5:27PM]

"it's also not the economical choice. at least not at $3 a gallon. talk to me at four or five. and there's a study somewhere (i forgot where) that says hybrid technology doesn't show an ROI until five years out. And that's only if you don't have to replace the batteries (out of warranty) before then."

Oh, so buying gas more often is more economical? When did this happen? Seriously. My family owns a hybrid Civic, and it's the best car we've ever had. My dad commuted 45 minutes and back to his office every day for several months; and he still only filled it up about every two weeks. The car almost pays for itself. Oh, and we've never had to replace the batteries.

[Max D @ Jul 21st 2006 6:06PM]

You tree huggers can't do math. The ROI on hybids is not there yet. It will take allot more than $3/gal to make it worth the money. The price needs to be $5/gal before any body she even think about getting their moneys worth out of a hybrid even with the government subsidies and rebates.I like new technology as much as anybody else but I want to get what I pay for, not just a cool car.

"My family owns a hybrid Civic, and it's the best car we've ever had. My dad commuted 45 minutes and back to his office every day for several months; and he still only filled it up about every two weeks. The car almost pays for itself. Oh, and we've never had to replace the batteries."

That Civic hybrid is new enough that the batteries have not died yet. All batteirs die eventually and they will not be cheap to replace.

[Sam @ Jul 21st 2006 10:58PM]

Except from all this, here is another incentive:
Did you know that the emissions from leadless petrol cause you cancer?
It’s not theoretical, it’s 100% certain. The greedy-oil-companies put additives in petrol to reduce the costs of the process. They could do it in a harmless way, but it costs them more! So to earn more, they sacrifice your lives! The catalyst in the car doesn’t work before it gets warm, -until then, it spreads death, as it also does when it has expired and it isn’t replaced… I’ve read a very good article online about this subject explaining everything, but unfortunately I can’t find it right now…

[Pavlov @ Jul 22nd 2006 11:08AM]

"Foreign Oil" to me sounds kinda stupid. Sure, it's nice to keep the money here and all, but it's funny how politicians have everyone talking about "foreign oil dependency", bla bla bla... We depend on many other things from other countries, so the fact that the oil is foreign is not the big problem. The big problem is that it's oil, which is a dirty and non-renewable source of energy. Petroleum will run out, and we've all known this for ages, so we need to get away from oil, be it foreign or not. And this may not be a perfect solution, but it's a definite step in the right direction. The more force there is in that direction, the more things will happen (fuel will become cheaper, technology will get better, etc). KEEP THE BIG PICTURE IN SIGHT, NOT JUST YOUR MEASLY WALLET (my wallet is smaller than yours, don't worry).

[Richard @ Jul 22nd 2006 12:50PM]

The Prius internal combustion engine (ICE) also generates electricity, when it is operating, that goes into the batteries as does the regenerative braking. Beside the fact that the engine and the electric motor are off while at a stop light, it is the electric motor that starts the vehicle moving again. There-by, no gasoline is being burned while idling or to get the vehicle moving.

If you google Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles or go to CalCars.org or HybridCars.com, you will get a great education on both Hybrid Gas Electric and Plug-In Hybrid Gas Electric Vehicles.

[Douglas Hvistendahl @ Jul 23rd 2006 3:31PM]

I tested and found my car can use 50% e85 winter, 60% summer, the rest gas. The newer grain ethanol plants are showing a small positive energy balance. But this justs let us get the infrastructure going. Cellulosic ethanol is getting close to practical in cost, several plants are building now. This increases the portion of oil replaceable from 30% for corn to much higher, and the energy balance is competitive with new petroleum discoveries, although not with the established fields. BTW, I'm trying out the trick of adding an ounce of acetone (pure only, please) to each 5 gallons of fuel - don't know if it will save as much as expected, but I keep track of MPG, so will soon know. As long as I'm careful not to spill any on the paint, it is worth trying.